One year after release opinion
- Thread starter fernandito
- 408 comments
- 39,514 views
- 786
- United States
Online racing games are a numbers game. Participation determines the quality of experience. And this is exactly where the blunders that SMS and Kunos have made translate into an underwhelming online experience. Make the game as hard as possible for casual players to play, and you will end up with only a tiny hardcore racing online. Tomorrow's hardcore racers come from today's casual players.
Kunos have already conceded defeat, and narrowed ACC's focus to one car group, to cater to the small player base their idiotic decision to make public rooms unmoderated (no host kick) have left them with. To most everyone's shock and horror, SMS followed suit, making casual online racing a bashfest dirtier (in my experience) that GT5/6 ever was. So much for 'sim'!
Casual players don't play a game because it is easiest to drive... They play it because it is easiest to play! And every decision SMS have made, particularly on consoles (which is where the vast majority of players are, hence the most money to be made) has made it close to impossible to have a good experience online.
Unless you are a basher troll, who loves to ruin everybody else's fun. In which case, PC2 has become the perfect game! No way to detect your presence, no way to remove you, no way to set up a public room so you can't join (PS3/GT6 set it up so someone on your blocklist couldn't join your room, or if you kicked someone not on your list, they couldn't rejoin for that entire day).
Look, PC2 is already close to the perfect game... The best tracklist, the best car list, full weather, ToD, tuning, Livetrack, road cars, track cars, rallycross, multi-class. With a feature list like that, why isn't it the industry leader? Why aren't GTS and Forza players flocking to it?
Because it's the worst game out there for casual players. You need them first so they can become more hardcore. Gran Turismo may not be able to code a decent tire model if their lives depended on it. But they know exactly what features make a game playable for casual players. And until SMS sit up and take careful note of what made GT the industry leader in the first place, they run the risk of having to do what Kunos are having to do...
Make the game smaller to cater for the smaller player base they have.
SMS have the content. But not enough people playing it, especially on console. And that lies squarely at the feet of SMS. they can change, or they can slowly fade away. To bookend this...
Online games are a numbers game. It's time for SMS to acknowledge this. Before it's too late.
Kunos have already conceded defeat, and narrowed ACC's focus to one car group, to cater to the small player base their idiotic decision to make public rooms unmoderated (no host kick) have left them with. To most everyone's shock and horror, SMS followed suit, making casual online racing a bashfest dirtier (in my experience) that GT5/6 ever was. So much for 'sim'!
Casual players don't play a game because it is easiest to drive... They play it because it is easiest to play! And every decision SMS have made, particularly on consoles (which is where the vast majority of players are, hence the most money to be made) has made it close to impossible to have a good experience online.
Unless you are a basher troll, who loves to ruin everybody else's fun. In which case, PC2 has become the perfect game! No way to detect your presence, no way to remove you, no way to set up a public room so you can't join (PS3/GT6 set it up so someone on your blocklist couldn't join your room, or if you kicked someone not on your list, they couldn't rejoin for that entire day).
Look, PC2 is already close to the perfect game... The best tracklist, the best car list, full weather, ToD, tuning, Livetrack, road cars, track cars, rallycross, multi-class. With a feature list like that, why isn't it the industry leader? Why aren't GTS and Forza players flocking to it?
Because it's the worst game out there for casual players. You need them first so they can become more hardcore. Gran Turismo may not be able to code a decent tire model if their lives depended on it. But they know exactly what features make a game playable for casual players. And until SMS sit up and take careful note of what made GT the industry leader in the first place, they run the risk of having to do what Kunos are having to do...
Make the game smaller to cater for the smaller player base they have.
SMS have the content. But not enough people playing it, especially on console. And that lies squarely at the feet of SMS. they can change, or they can slowly fade away. To bookend this...
Online games are a numbers game. It's time for SMS to acknowledge this. Before it's too late.
- 181
- Canada
- Oswal07
Thats like...your opinion dude. I like driving GT cars I like driving race cars. If I want to race a street car I'll take the civic to the race track. If I want rally cars I'll play a different game. Racing street cars in a racing game makes no sense to me. The cars slide all over the place have crappy brakes and its smash up derby. And I'm not interested in driving in the rain or the snow or the dark. Races are cancelled if it snows. And its hard enough being clean and consistent in fair weather. Can't expect one game to be everything to everyone. Did I think I'd ever be playing such immersive racing games against 20 online opponents? It was just a dream. If you let the trolls in you head the Russians win. Stop complaining. If you don't like it go do something else.
- 786
- United States
Well, that is YOUR opinion. And the numbers that play games with everything from race cars to road cars are vast compared to the narrowly focused games. So, I'm afraid, it appears to be the minority opinion. By several orders of magnitude. But you are welcome to it. Sounds like ACC is in your future...
And if you lack sufficient skill to race street cars in the game, I wouldn't recommend taking your Civic to the track, dude! And stay home if it snows, LOL
And if you lack sufficient skill to race street cars in the game, I wouldn't recommend taking your Civic to the track, dude! And stay home if it snows, LOL
fernandito
(Banned)
- 797
- Spain
- 874
- bristol
- smokebeer
- FOGSmokebeer
- 6,515
- Southampton
- RacingAtHome
Then don't. Nobody's forcing you.
Wow. Both @simsimsheree and I are on the same side. Is this real life?
- 2,570
- United Kingdom
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
As a lifetime racing and driving devotee, I have to say that imo a game I purchase imo should load up into a neutral playable state.
This is the biggest failing here imo.
Gt Sport loads up and as soon as you earn or purchase race cars you can immediately drive them with proper neutral setups capable of the best times in the world.
I like driving so much that I purchased pc2, honestly when I don’t take out GT Sport and replace it with this game it’s because I know everything will have to be adjusted before I can enjoy it for what it is.
I am the gamer you gamer guys are discussing except I have experience on track irl.
It puzzles me that developers can sell a game that drives like this one does stock. That’s their huge mistake, but also I think why invest time into this game when Gt Sport has taken over and is the undisputed world leader?
The answer is variety. I enjoy different games.
Developers should put their best foot forward at release, and these developers didn’t.
This is the biggest failing here imo.
Gt Sport loads up and as soon as you earn or purchase race cars you can immediately drive them with proper neutral setups capable of the best times in the world.
I like driving so much that I purchased pc2, honestly when I don’t take out GT Sport and replace it with this game it’s because I know everything will have to be adjusted before I can enjoy it for what it is.
I am the gamer you gamer guys are discussing except I have experience on track irl.
It puzzles me that developers can sell a game that drives like this one does stock. That’s their huge mistake, but also I think why invest time into this game when Gt Sport has taken over and is the undisputed world leader?
The answer is variety. I enjoy different games.
Developers should put their best foot forward at release, and these developers didn’t.
- 874
- bristol
- smokebeer
- FOGSmokebeer
"Gt Sport has taken over and is the undisputed world leader"
That Sir is fighting talk
lol but yes I get what your saying but if you had a wheel maybe you would give it more time 
That Sir is fighting talk
lol but yes I get what your saying but if you had a wheel maybe you would give it more time
fernandito
(Banned)
- 797
- Spain
Project Car must be played with a wheel.
Really? Wow, I must have just imagined the time I've spent enjoying the hell out of it with a pad then
- 6,515
- Southampton
- RacingAtHome
Or just fantasy
Strangely, I expected a response like this.
GT Sport has taken over? Am I in the right decade? Sure, I'd say that 10 years ago and anytime until GT5 maybe GT6. But GT Sport is just boring. I mainly use it to design car liveries. If PCARS had that, I'd never play it. And to be honest, I haven't played GT in a few months.
You should definitely at least try a wheel on this game though. It makes the game feel even better.Really? Wow, I must have just imagined the time I've spent enjoying the hell out of it with a pad then
fernandito
(Banned)
- 797
- Spain
The shock would be telling. Like waking up from the matrix.
I have, and I don't dispute for a second that it's the best way to experience the game. That doesn't make it the only way to enjoy it, and it doesn't mean that I "must" use a wheel.
Chikane_GTR
Premium
- 8,141
- Heaven
- 536
- Western Sahara
Same here it's a livery editor game, but sadly there's not much value of it, if they just sit in the garage.
--
What comes to driving in GTS, i do like it time to time and online racing is often very clean... But, immersion dies quickly if i pay attention how opponents' cars move on track; Twitching, sliding around, bouncing off from each other like billiard balls & recovering control from ~90° slides. Made for masses.
While 99% can't drive **** in AC or PCars2 online, i like how "1:1" the car movements are to reality, very natural and immersive.
- 6,515
- Southampton
- RacingAtHome
That wasn't aimed at you Jake - it was in response to the "Project Car must be played with a wheel" comment.
- 6,515
- Southampton
- RacingAtHome
- 786
- United States
Well, it all depends on how you define 'taken over', I guess.
Sales numbers pretty much define the state of things, whether we love PC2 or not. For starters, Project Cars has never even approached GT's numbers, so there's no 'taking over' of a game that has led from the start. Add Forza's numbers to GT's (just to cover the console end of things) and PC2 becomes even more left in the dust, sales-wise.
The issue (as I'm sure you have read me say!) is that PC simply refuses to do the basic things that could turn PC2 from a league sim specialist game into a general racing/driving game. Look, most people play darts. Damn few join a league. That's basically how it is with racing games. Damn few want (or have time, or the inclination) to join a league. And every decision SMS have made about the online game have crippled it to being decent for leagues only.
I really agree that GTS has become a shadow of itself compared to GT5/6. PC2 is the game that GT6 drivers always wanted it to be. Better (and more) tracks, better cars, better physics, better tire model, better real racing rules. It's a GT6 wet dream! But it slams into the wall the minute you go online and don't want to join a league. SMS have left the door open. And GTS is driving through the hole left in SMS's online. I can pretty much guarantee that 100% of all the racers I used to play with on GT6 would be on PC2 now, were it not for how bad the multiplayer for casual racing is. But they are still on GTS...
Let's hope SMS change in the future. This great game should not be as poorly supported as it is now...
- 6,515
- Southampton
- RacingAtHome
I was more discussing in relation to Forza and it's own history to be honest. I may think PCARS is the better game but it hasn't gotten anywhere near to GT/Forza saleswise. Though if they had a console deal, I'm sure they would.
- 219
- Sydney
To answer my own question, I found that racing in Dubai in the second month of Summer, at 11.30am, I saw 45 degrees C ambient temp with 66 degrees C track temp. Set up a custom event, practice to 90 minutes with 31 AI, multiclass Road A, Road C, Road E, Trackday B, and just ran laps. Felt like I was doing a real life track day! Tried the F12TDF, then the R35 Nismo, and saw oil temps hitting 120 degrees C in some instances! Keeping the car and tyres cool was a challenge in itself.
That's why this game is awesome!
- 786
- United States
Not sure I quite understand this. A console deal?
Ultimately, I think PC2 is the better driving simulator, and has far better content. But, particularly on console I can think of (and have posted about) many many areas that it is not the better game...
For the life of me I believe that, if the unfriendliness towards casual drivers were remedied, Project Cars would eat Gran Turismo's lunch and garner the kind of numbers we so envy. 600,000 or so GTS players playing every week on Playstation (kudosprime numbers) isn't chump change. PC2 is the game everyone hoped GTS was going to be. But PD dropped the ball. SMS had an opportunity to be the top dog, but seem afraid to add the few things that make GTS the better game.
For the want of a nail...
- 874
- bristol
- smokebeer
- FOGSmokebeer
I dunno maybe some of us get fed up of racing with"casual drivers" and like are games to take some time effort and skill to master I for one like to race with fans of racing who know how to overtake etc and when I want to just have a blast I go play the crew 2
fernandito
(Banned)
- 797
- Spain
Amen reverendo. However, the price to pay is kinda what simsims is talking about too. It is what it is.
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
Interesting opinion. I respect that, but hold the opposite opinion myself.
For myself I relate the game I play to what I have driven and raced irl. I don’t play games to be bothered with setup, adjustment etc. I do plenty of that type of stuff irl. I want to spend leisure time in gaming driving cars, what’s fun to me is honing driving technique and racing people not ai with my driver rating on the line. Your point about it being a game is spot on.
GT Sport does a great job of that. For the folks who want to spend hours tweaking caster and camber and spring rates and tire pressure etc pc2 is best. Different strokes for diff folks.
IMO that’s why pjcars2 has no player base compared to GT Sport. Nothing to do with wheels. I only use a wheel. Playing a driving game with controller is not my thing. (Not a gamer, can’t do modern controller anyways too many buttons!). Pjcars2 is probably more suited to a pc gaming world where it seems like it’s almost as much fun for folks to build computers and play with tech stuff and adjust things and install drivers and try to achieve better resolution and higher frame rates or overclock etc.
I think your post clarified why I prefer GT Sport. The cars are already setup perfect and just need drivers (Racecars under bop) The ffb and physics seem great to me compared to real life... I spend enough time irl working on controls and solving technical issues. The last thing I want to do to relax is troubleshoot or adjust anything. GT Sport provides a level playing field for all in sport mode and just asks the player to play. For me it simulates the driving itself best on console and that’s what I want. I could care less about setup, fake effects developers add to ffb etc. I turn everything fake I can off in driving games.
These factors cut to the heart of the matter for me. You’re very right that GT Sport hit a homerun as far as a game.
Nice post.
I have no idea why we are comparing arcade racers to racing simulators. Racing simulators have ALWAYS been a niche genre and have never sold in staggering numbers. Calling out PC2 or AC or iRacing or rF2 or any of the other sims sales figures in comparison to GTS or Forza just makes no sense to me.
Racing sims have traditionally been in the domain of PC only but I'm not going to criticise SMS for trying to get some traction in the console market as well. I play PC2 on PC and PS4 and enjoy it on both.
