Ongoing PSN outages

[arora]

Or thank him

 

[NFSCARBON1]

I think Anon is doing this because SONY "Stole" yours and mine "Other Os" function.
I was about to install Linux after i read my self up on doin' so.. But AHHH...
Sony Re-moved that for me too do. 👎

Why don't we hack Anon for taking away PSN? Why don't we delete everything on their computers and prevent them from accessing them? Somewhere in Sony, or even on this site their has to be someone with the ability to do that?

 

[XxOnLySBz4mExX]

Or thank him

Thank him for what exactly?

 

[caninehostile]

Thank him for what exactly?

Changes to come?
He was the first to jailbrake Iphone. And isn't it Legal to jailbrake your iphone in the U.S now? Wonder who was too blame?

 

[Tweetman_277]

Has anyone entertaines the notion that this might, in some really really strange way, be relaated to the implimentation of PS Suite? That makes waay more sense than ps home updates being to blame, and anon said they wouldnt take it down again.

 

[caninehostile]

Has anyone entertaines the notion that this might, in some really really strange way, be relaated to the implimentation of PS Suite? That makes waay more sense than ps home updates being to blame, and anon said they wouldnt take it down again.

Still odd since we hear nothing from Sony?
And even stranger since NO Anon channel (The officials) I've found is speaking of this either. So this is Very Odd

Your guess is as good as mine

 

[Minty]

You mean just like the karma Sony is receiving for how they've been handling the hackers in the first place?

You don't mess with Anon.

How is this Karma for Sony? All this is doing is screwing over the entire Sony user base. Sony just has to spend a little bit more time fixing things but as far as their concerned all this does is give their tech guys something to do.

You shouldn't mess with them, but when someone completely hacks into your tech, even after they agreed not to, they shouldn't just get away with it. When you click that little button that says "Accept" before you sign into PSN, that means you have agreed to every little word on that wall of text, this includes tampering with the system. (EDIT: Just read another article that I hadn't seen before, he claims to have never signed into the PSN and agreed to the ToS, so Sony was completely in the wrong, but I stand by that their retaliation was completely uncalled for and affected all the wrong people)

Sony may have done a poor job of handling the situation, but to act as if the hackers should be defended is just ridiculous. Sony made stupid decisions, but nothing that deserved this type of retaliation. It's like killing a bee with 5lbs of C4 for stinging you after you smacked it.


I'm only 18 and this whole back and forth between Sony and the hackers seems like a bunch of childish crap.

 

[caninehostile]

How is this Karma for Sony? All this is doing is screwing over the entire Sony user base. Sony just has to spend a little bit more time fixing things but as far as their concerned all this does is give their tech guys something to do.

Well It seeeems that this was way over SONY's TECH guys

Earlier in the week, a part of the hacking collective Anonymous declared war on Sony and brought down several of the company’s sites as well as the PlayStation Network. By using a form of a DDoS attack, the group temporarily crippled Sony’s online infrastructure, but now Sony is fighting back, recruiting a specialist firm that has successfully thwarted Anonymous’ attempts.

World Leading Anti-DDoS specialists, Prolexic Technologies were brought on by Sony to stop the mass attack of the site’s servers:

Prolexic has been fighting DDoS attacks and developing “best of breed” practices and a massive global network for over 7 years. Our experience is simply unmatched.

Prolexic’s services provide online businesses with the most advanced protection available against DDoS attacks and malicious botnet activity.

Just saying....

 

[E28]

Clicky. It seems the anti-Sony protest is going well...

Anonymous have started 'Operation Sony' where they are protesting outside Sony stores. One of the protestors even felt so strongly abou the matter he bought a Bravia TV from the 'Evil Opressors'

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Still odd since we hear nothing from Sony?

How exactly is this nothing?

Update on PSN Service Outages

As you are no doubt aware, the current emergency outage is continuing this afternoon and all Sony Online Network services remain unavailable. Our support teams are investigating the cause of the problem, including the possibility of targeted behaviour by an outside party. If the reported Network problems are indeed caused by such acts, we would like to once again thank our customers who have borne the brunt of the attack through interrupted service.

Our engineers are continuing to work to restore and maintain the services, and we appreciate our customers’ continued support. For further information, please refer to updates on PlayStation.com, here on PlayStation.Blog and via our @PlayStationEU twitter feed.

 

[Robin]

Well Sony shouldn't have stolen Other OS from people that paid for it, also the lawsuit was settled out of court and Geo Hot only got a slap on the wrist which basically means Sony lost because they didnt want the negative press if it went to trial because they were already coming across badly so far and it might reveal unfair practices in how the firmware operates on peoples systems.

Gosh I bet they wish they hadn't removed it now, everything would have been much better for them because people only got riled up after they took it away.

 

[caninehostile]

How exactly is this nothing?

Update on PSN Service Outages

Doesn't say what causes the downtime?
Sony is lookin in the bushes for what the hell is this? that's all i think.

 

[stupidstormy36]

I can't sign into PSN, but I can still download update data for games (DW7)! Interesting. I guess not everything related to online play with games is PSN related, or the update data is hosted on other servers.

 

[E28]

I can't sign into PSN, but I can still download update data for games (DW7)! Interesting. I guess not everything related to online play with games is PSN related, or the update data is hosted on other servers.

Yeah, it's possible updates are retrieved off the game's specific servers rather than PSN's (although PSN is required to use them).

I am probaly wrong though...

 

[Darren.]

I'm bored sick. No PSN=No GT5. I cant be bothered to do endurances, I done all other events. My B specs are stuck online, whats left to do in GT5??

 

[Master__Shake_]

The hackers aren't trashing Sony because they removed the "Other OS" feature from the PS3. That was removed months ago in a system update. They're pissed because the hackers who originally exploited the PS3 are being prosecuted to the fullest extent. Anonymous believes that they should be thanked, rather than harassed, for showing Sony the errors in their seemingly "flawless" gaming system.

I don't see Microsoft making this big of a deal out of the countless Xbox360 hackers.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Well Sony shouldn't have stolen Other OS from people that paid for it

An opinion, but clearly completely untrue.

Either you don't understand or respect the law, or maybe you don't understand this case.

In no way did Sony "steal" anything, and in fact the only reason that feature was legally removed was because people were using it to "steal" games and movies by copying them and distributing them.

Point of fact, the 3rd party OS feature (you know, the same one that no other console offered) existed for over three years and was only removed after it was exploited to hack the PS3 and copy protected content.

Gosh I bet they wish they hadn't removed it now, everything would have been much better for them because people only got riled up after they took it away.

Right... because almost no one ever used that feature until it was discovered that you could use it to exploit the system.

And Sony would be much better off doing nothing and letting everyone "steal" all the games and movies they like. Yeah, that sounds like a promising business.

 

[skidbubble]

I've been wondering if I should get Playstation Plus. All of the recent outages, downtimes, and connection issues have made my decision easy. I will not be getting it. The people who already have it should be outraged that they are actually paying money for this kind of crap.

 

[caninehostile]

The hackers aren't trashing Sony because they removed the "Other OS" feature from the PS3. That was removed months ago in a system update. They're pissed because the hackers who originally exploited the PS3 are being prosecuted to the fullest extent. Anonymous believes that they should be thanked, rather than harassed, for showing Sony the errors in their seemingly "flawless" gaming system.

I don't see Microsoft making this big of a deal out of the countless Xbox360 hackers.

Sony also alsked Youtube to reveal the I.P. adresses of ALL that had viewed GEOHOT youtube posts on jailbraking the PS3.

So what they want with MY IP adress for?

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

I don't see Microsoft making this big of a deal out of the countless Xbox360 hackers.

And yet a simple search on the internet would tell you otherwise. It's just old news now, as they have been dealing with this issue a lot longer than the PS3.

Doesn't say what causes the downtime?
Sony is lookin in the bushes for what the hell is this? that's all i think.

Well first of all, that's not "nothing" and second of all, if you are expecting a play by play, bit by bit report on exactly what is going on, then I suspect the only one "lookin in the bushes" is your expectations.


These kinds of discussions would be so much more reasonable and informative if more people would stop all the hyperbole and replace it with actual facts.

 

[E28]

Sony also alsked Youtube to reveal the I.P. adresses of ALL that had viewed GEOHOT youtube posts on jailbraking the PS3.

So what they want with MY IP adress for?

Alot of people probaly viewed it to find out what was going on with the hacking thing and are totally innocent. Sony are being a bit stupid with this whole affair.

 

[SmokingCones]

Update on PSN Service Outages:

While we are investigating the cause of the Network outage, we wanted to alert you that it may be a full day or two before we’re able to get the service completely back up and running. Thank you very much for your patience while we work to resolve this matter. Please stay tuned to this space for more details, and we’ll update you again as soon as we can.

Source

 

[Famine]

An opinion, but clearly completely untrue.

Either you don't understand or respect the law, or maybe you don't understand this case.

In no way did Sony "steal" anything, and in fact the only reason that feature was legally removed was because people were using it to "steal" games and movies by copying them and distributing them.

Actually, that's not true - at least not for the UK (and Robin. is a British member).

I'm aware of "some" (though not many) instances of British PS3 owners getting refunds for the PS3 from retailers* as the PS3 no longer functioned as advertised when they bought it, through no action of theirs. This is a requirement of the Sales of Goods Act - the product must work, as advertised, for a reasonable amount of time (often cited as 6 years for electronic goods). By removing OtherOS functionality or online gaming functionality (you could opt not to install the update, but then you lost online gaming), Sony were in breach of the Act.

In the UK at least - and possibly the rest of Europe - the update forcing you to either lose a paid-for function by installing it or lose a paid-for function by not installing it was not legal.

*The SoGA establishes that the contract formed on purchase is between the seller and the purchaser - thus the consumer has a contract with the retailer under SoGA and is liable for faults and not with the manufacturer. The retailer, having bought the item from the manufacturer, has a contract with the manufacturer, so retailers refunding consumers under the Act may have resulted in downstream claims by the retailer from the manufacturer.

 

[Robin]

An opinion, but clearly completely untrue.

Either you don't understand or respect the law, or maybe you don't understand this case.

In no way did Sony "steal" anything, and in fact the only reason that feature was legally removed was because people were using it to "steal" games and movies by copying them and distributing them.

Point of fact, the 3rd party OS feature (you know, the same one that no other console offered) existed for over three years and was only removed after it was exploited to hack the PS3 and copy protected content.

Point of fact, the Other OS was removed BEFORE anything ever usable for illegal activity came from the hack. All Geohot did was show that he had reinstated Other OS on firmware 3.00, he didn't even release information on how to do it, that was when Sony pulled the plug at FW 3.21 because they PRESUMED it could be used for illegal activities which to me is not a legal reason to remove anything.

All the copying and distributing your talking about happened afterwards when all those PS Jailbreak USB sticks started coming out. That was when illegal activity started happening, ironically none of that was done directly by GeoHot.

And adding to what Famine said, in the UK a product has to function as advertised (even if its a function only mentioned in the manual) for a reasonable amount of time after purchase. People actually got partial refunds off retailers in the UK (I think £80-£100 for the loss of the feature) and that is also a fact. So I understand the law fine thank you.

Right... because almost no one ever used that feature until it was discovered that you could use it to exploit the system.

Actually many people where using it from day 1 as a computer, even institutions and the US army were using it. Your basically labeling most people using it as being hackers and using it solely for dishonest reasons.

And Sony would be much better off doing nothing and letting everyone "steal" all the games and movies they like. Yeah, that sounds like a promising business.

Piracy was rampant on the PS2 for 10 years and it went on to be the best selling console of all time and one of Sony's most successful money spinners. Microsoft actually does the least about hacks and they are enjoying huge success with the 360.

Heavy handedness usually has the opposite effect and now Sony are paying the price for going OTT with the lawsuit. They even wanted to subpoena the accounts of people watching his YouTube video... I mean seriously, way to rub people the wrong way

Robin.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Actually, that's not true - at least not for the UK (and Robin. is a British member).

I'm aware of "some" (though not many) instances of British PS3 owners getting refunds for the PS3 from retailers* as the PS3 no longer functioned as advertised when they bought it, through no action of theirs. This is a requirement of the Sales of Goods Act - the product must work, as advertised, for a reasonable amount of time (often cited as 6 years for electronic goods). By removing OtherOS functionality or online gaming functionality (you could opt not to install the update, but then you lost online gaming), Sony were in breach of the Act.

In the UK at least - and possibly the rest of Europe - the update forcing you to either lose a paid-for function by installing it or lose a paid-for function by not installing it was not legal.

*The SoGA establishes that the contract formed on purchase is between the seller and the purchaser - thus the consumer has a contract with the retailer under SoGA and is liable for faults and not with the manufacturer. The retailer, having bought the item from the manufacturer, has a contract with the manufacturer, so retailers refunding consumers under the Act may have resulted in downstream claims by the retailer from the manufacturer.

Interesting, but the way it reads is that Sony still has every right to remove a feature, and in return, apparently UK users (but certainly not here in the States) have the right to return their PS3s because of it. So I'm still not seeing how this is considered stealing or that by removing that feature Sony did anything illegal.

Furthermore, does UK law consider tampering with a device to bypass any copy protection considered to be illegal?

 

[Hastatus]

Sony also alsked Youtube to reveal the I.P. adresses of ALL that had viewed GEOHOT youtube posts on jailbraking the PS3.

So what they want with MY IP adress for?

What is wrong with this? When a police detective is investigating any crime they ALWAYS start with lists that include many many innocent people whom they then rule out. They are looking for a few names who coincide with other evidence, and you need every scrap of evidence in the court of law. They were not planning to ban everyone who looked or anything...lol...only guilty or paranoid people would be afraid of this.

 

[PiRacingChamp]

I believe I read somewhere that the reason the hackers altered the ps3 browser, was to make it easier to use for 'browsing'. But a thought just occurred to me. Since they are hackers, first and foremost, maybe their primary reason was to have another tool to do damage with. Keep in mind, all these hackers have plenty of PCs to use to 'browse' the internet with. Seems to me that they thought they might find a less secure (and easier) way to screw things up. I see these people as nothing more than parasites. They should be treated as an unwanted infection. Maybe we can track them down, and pour a barrel of sulfuric acid over their heads.

 

[Northstar]

I believe I read somewhere that the reason the hackers altered the ps3 browser, was to make it easier to use for 'browsing'..

That's impossible, the browser is forever horrible.

Sony also alsked Youtube to reveal the I.P. adresses of ALL that had viewed GEOHOT youtube posts on jailbraking the PS3.

So what they want with MY IP adress for?

They wouldn't be able to bring up charges purely based on IP addresses anyways, don't get your panties in a bunch.

If I was you, Youtube giving Sony IP addresses would be the least of my worries as some sites will give actual useful info to any guy on the street for a few bucks.

 

[Famine]

Interesting, but the way it reads is that Sony still has every right to remove a feature, and in return, apparently UK users (but certainly not here in the States) have the right to return their PS3s because of it.

No, they don't have to return the PS3 - though they can opt to do so for a full refund.

So I'm still not seeing how this is considered stealing or that by removing that feature Sony did anything illegal.

Prior to the update, a user could have a (crap) Linux box and an online gaming machine in a shiny black monolith. Both functions were part of the features listed for the original machine. The update forced users who had bought a machine advertised as being able to do both to pick one or the other. This is a non-user fault loss of functionality for which the manufacturer is culpable and the retailer liable under the terms of the Sales of Goods Act - a law. And remember, no EULA may make legal in a given territory what is illegal - so the PS3's EULA, which I recall says that they may make changes to functionality, does not exempt Sony from this requirement.

For most of us, it didn't really matter. But that some consumers were able to attain partial refunds for loss of functionality (through the foibles of the SoGA, from the retailers rather than Sony) indicates that for some consumers it did matter and Sony's enforced loss of functionality was contrary to legislated "consumer rights".


From there it's just a trip through the hyperbolic dictionary. Performing an act which is contrary to legislation is breaking the law, and breaking the law is illegal. Taking something away from someone who's paid for it illegally is stealing. I wouldn't be in a hurry to say that Sony stole OtherOS functionality illegally, but I can see how others would say that and UK legislation certainly covers the bases for them.

Furthermore, does UK law consider tampering with a device to bypass any copy protection considered to be illegal?

It's not massively relevant, since we're talking specifically about the removal of functionality by the manufacturer, regardless of motivation and justification, being a breach of law - which it is in the UK. But actually, it largely doesn't, no.

But UK law has a number of strange avenues like that. There are many items which it's legal to possess but not to operate. I believe it's wholly legally to tamper with recording equipment to remove copy protection, but not to own something like a Macrovision removal device (oh, but it's fine to own and operate software which removes Macrovision).

 

[PiRacingChamp]

That's impossible, the browser is forever horrible.

Hey ponybrain, this seems like the perfect reason for them to want to alter it. If it were a wonderful browser, they'd leave it alone. However, if PSN is porous, and ill-protected, they would have all the incentive in the world.