Ongoing PSN outages

[Northstar]

Hey ponybrain, this seems like the perfect reason for them to want to alter it. If it were a wonderful browser, they'd leave it alone. However, if PSN is porous, and ill-protected, they would have all the incentive in the world.

What I meant is that they would basically have to completely rework it. I'm guessing some hacker wouldn't be able to do that.

 

[PiRacingChamp]

I'm guessing some hacker wouldn't be able to do that.

From what I've read, that is EXACTLY what they did. That is precisely what the lawsuit was about.

Listen, go back to your pony show, and leave the adult thinking to those of us who can contemplate matters beyond those intended for 6 yr old girls.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Point of fact, the Other OS was removed BEFORE anything ever usable for illegal activity came from the hack.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. If you think no one was exploiting the system with it prior to the "official" blog entries from Geohot, you are grossly mistaken. Not only that, but it's rather absurd to think Sony wasn't well aware of the vulnerability, and when it became clear that it was going to open a floodgate of piracy they would want to shut it down... if anything they were too late.

And adding to what Famine said, in the UK a product has to function as advertised (even if its a function only mentioned in the manual) for a reasonable amount of time after purchase. People actually got partial refunds off retailers in the UK (I think £80-£100 for the loss of the feature) and that is also a fact. So I understand the law fine thank you.

Except you stated Sony stole the feature, and obviously implied they broke the law. Instead, it appears that they did neither, and that while Sony has the right to remove any feature, users in the UK at least also have the right to then get some kind of refund. That's far cry from saying Sony stole the feature away from users.

Piracy was rampant on the PS2 for 10 years and it went on to be the best selling console of all time and one of Sony's most successful money spinners. Microsoft actually does the least about hacks and they are enjoying huge success with the 360.

Heavy handedness usually has the opposite effect and now Sony are paying the price for going OTT with the lawsuit. They even wanted to subpoena the accounts of people watching his YouTube video... I'm mean seriously

This is a very common excuse (like the one claiming they would never have bought it any way) used by people who support piracy and often get their games, movies, and music free from illegal means. The fact is someone has to pay for it, and those that do often pay more to make up for the ones who are effectively "stealing" it.

Ask yourself this, if its OK to exploit a system in order to get free games, movies, music, etc, and if everyone does it, who is going to pay to make all the content in the first place?

Ask yourself, what gives them a right to enjoy all the games, movies, music they want for free, but honest consumers have to pay for them?

Sure, it's easy to turn a blind eye on piracy, but if everyone did it, there would be little to no interest in making those same games and movies. And just because not everyone does it doesn't means it's OK.

 

[Darren.]

The "Other OS" Feature removed in a patch, never concerned me. After all, I only bought my PS3 for the games and after all, isn't that what its all about?

 

[Northstar]

From what I've read, that is EXACTLY what they did. That is precisely what the lawsuit was about.

So why not post the link saying that?

Listen, go back to your pony show, and leave the adult thinking to those of us who can contemplate matters beyond those intended for 6 yr old girls.

Read this, for your own good.

 

[Spagetti69]

That champ guy is a bit nasty, boo champ guy.

 

[Robin]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. If you think no one was exploiting the system with it prior to the "official" blog entries from Geohot, you are grossly mistaken. Not only that, but it's rather absurd to think Sony wasn't well aware of the vulnerability, and when it became clear that it was going to open a floodgate of piracy they would want to shut it down... if anything they were too late.

Not one game was run illegally on custom PS3 firmware till a Castlevania copy became the first using a modified 3.55 and the video is all over the net, Sony removed Other OS at 3.15, I'm pretty sure 3.15 comes before 3.55.

Even games which were run using a different method (PS Jailbreak stick) all happened after 3.15 meaning Sony were without just cause. You say I am grossly mistaken by thinking people weren't exploiting the system before but do you have absolute proof that they were?, why were there no videos or custom firmware released back then? In any case there wasn't any global distribution and you can do what you like in your own home. Its just your opinion so I am not WRONG.

Except you stated Sony stole the feature, and obviously implied they broke the law. Instead, it appears that they did neither, and that while Sony has the right to remove any feature, users in the UK at least also have the right to then get some kind of refund. That's far cry from saying Sony stole the feature away from users.

I don't know how, especially after Famine spelt it out, that you can think Sony not complying with the sales of good act is not breaking the law Why were refunds been given if they wernt at fault? Removing a feature illegally which was paid for is stealing, the law seems to think it was wrong and are you now going to argue with European and UK law?

Robin.

 

[Casper06]

I am crippled without online play.... Hope this gets resolved today!

 

[PiRacingChamp]

Read this, for your own good.
[/URL]

Thanks, sis. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

I guess now you have to tattle to mommy and daddy. Don't forget to ask for your quarter.

 

[Darren.]

I am crippled without online play.... Hope this gets resolved today!

Look a bit above. Your answers there!

 

[Tyger]

Noooo! I was looking forward to possibly new seasonal events in GT5, possibly refreshed OCD. Thanks Sony.

Hate to break this to you chap but there is an update to seasonals and OCD though only a few got to see them before the outage happened. Check the Seasonals forum, though oddly doesn't have its own thread, I think the info is actually part of the "Why no muscle car seasonals?" thread, by way of reply I guess, cause that's precisely what they've given us this week.

 

[Northstar]

Thanks, sis. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

I look forward to reading your BUL entry sometime in the future.👍

 

[Darren.]

Thanks for that info, looking forward to another dose of GT5 online!

 

[aland18]

The proper way to handle the situation would be a legal course of action. Sounds like what happened in the UK was a class action type of suit and if Sony offered a refund for the removal of software then it was done properly. They didn't "STEAL" anything and the people that were upset about it got compensated by Sony.

Say what you will about all of this but I can assure you that there are people MUCH smarter and more educated than anyone on here handling this situation in the appropriate legal forums.

I don't see how this Anon/Geo graphy/whoever nerd is benefiting ME by doing this. If he says "I'm doing it for the good of everyone" then my reply to him would be "That's what terrorists say when they try to justify their actions."

An extreme analogy I'll admit, but my PSN is still down...

 

[NA]

But UK law has a number of strange avenues like that. There are many items which it's legal to possess but not to operate. I believe it's wholly legally to tamper with recording equipment to remove copy protection, but not to own something like a Macrovision removal device (oh, but it's fine to own and operate software which removes Macrovision).

Yup, gets like that in the US sometimes. Oddities like states where you can buy certain types of fireworks at stores, but can't light them off, or transport them. I think Georgia (or was it Tennessee?) is one of those, yet you can buy fireworks, matches, gasoline, (and beer. Great mix of items eh? lol) all at the same truckstop. Kinda just begs for drunken morons to blow off fingers while swerving into oncoming traffic, and resulting in massive fires from accident induced gastank exsplosions setting off the remaining fireworks, but nah, don't need a law resricting the sales or anything...
Yep, I understand where you're coming from in the strange avenue department.

 

[MedigoFlame]

We should all blame this guy,

21 year old George Hotz.

Holy 🤬! He was my brother's roomate on freshman year! I've met him before. Didn't think he was that famous... >_> I do remember my brother telling me about his 350Z roadster. A bit off topic, sorry.

 

[Robin]

I don't know if you guys saw his rap video, not bad... I think he's in the wrong industry

Language warning

 

[Tornado]

These kinds of discussions would be so much more reasonable and informative if more people would stop all the hyperbole and replace it with actual facts.

An opinion, but clearly completely untrue.

I'm sorry, but you can't say either of these things based on how grossly misinformed and hyperbolic you seem to be on the OtherOS fiasco. It merely makes you look ignorant. For example:

In no way did Sony "steal" anything, and in fact the only reason that feature was legally removed was because people were using it to "steal" games and movies by copying them and distributing them.

Point of fact, the 3rd party OS feature (you know, the same one that no other console offered) existed for over three years and was only removed after it was exploited to hack the PS3 and copy protected content.

That's right, and it was clearly removed because of Geohot and hackers like those involved with Anon who used that feature to hack and exploit the PS3 and pirating copy protected content, like games and movies.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. If you think no one was exploiting the system with it prior to the "official" blog entries from Geohot, you are grossly mistaken. Not only that, but it's rather absurd to think Sony wasn't well aware of the vulnerability, and when it became clear that it was going to open a floodgate of piracy they would want to shut it down... if anything they were too late.

None of this is true. Not a single word of it.
The closest that anyone ever got to bypassing OtherOS security was a Hello World program that GeoHot threw together and put on his blog. There were no bootloaders. There was no widespread hacker network. There was no piracy. And that is fact. Whether or not it would have happened is a different story, but none of the assertions you are making are accurate.
It wasn't until 6 months after Sony took away OtherOS before people started pirating games on the system, but that was a result of a completely unrelated exploit in the USB interface code in the Game OS itself, and it specifically only worked on 3.41 (which was 4 firmware revisions after the final one that allowed OtherOS). The GeoHot CFW didn't come out until 4 months after that, and that was specifically designed to disallow playing backups of any kind.

Except you stated Sony stole the feature, and obviously implied they broke the law. Instead, it appears that they did neither, and that while Sony has the right to remove any feature, users in the UK at least also have the right to then get some kind of refund. That's far cry from saying Sony stole the feature away from users.

EULAs are a contract. A contract is automatically void if the law it goes into effect under disallows provisions of it. That isn't some British thing. That is how contracts work, period.
British law seems to pretty clearly disallow the provisions Sony wrote into their EULA for removing features from the system based on what Famine said, which is probably why almost all EULAs explicitly state that they are void if the law says so.

 

[Darren.]

The proper way to handle the situation would be a legal course of action. Sounds like what happened in the UK was a class action type of suit and if Sony offered a refund for the removal of software then it was done properly. They didn't "STEAL" anything and the people that were upset about it got compensated by Sony.

Say what you will about all of this but I can assure you that there are people MUCH smarter and more educated than anyone on here handling this situation in the appropriate legal forums.

I don't see how this Anon/Geo graphy/whoever nerd is benefiting ME by doing this. If he says "I'm doing it for the good of everyone" then my reply to him would be "That's what terrorists say when they try to justify their actions."

An extreme analogy I'll admit, but my PSN is still down...

How come a minority of people here are automatically coming to the conclusion that the shock PSN downtime is due to anonymous. We do not know why or how the PSN servers were brought down. For all we know it could be important maintainance

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

How come a minority of people here are automatically coming to the conclusion that the shock PSN downtime is due to anonymous. We do not know why or how the PSN servers were brought down. For all we know it could be important maintainance

You obviously are not up to date on all the current information.

 

[Darren.]

I am, but it said its a possibility.

 

[Robin]

How come a minority of people here are automatically coming to the conclusion that the shock PSN downtime is due to anonymous. We do not know why or how the PSN servers were brought down. For all we know it could be important maintainance

Because Sony issued this statement...

Posted on 21 April by James Gallagher – Blog Manager, SCEE

As you are no doubt aware, the current emergency outage is continuing this afternoon and all Sony Online Network services remain unavailable. Our support teams are investigating the cause of the problem, including the possibility of targeted behaviour by an outside party. If the reported Network problems are indeed caused by such acts, we would like to once again thank our customers who have borne the brunt of the attack through interrupted service.

Our engineers are continuing to work to restore and maintain the services, and we appreciate our customers’ continued support. For further information, please refer to updates on PlayStation.com, here on PlayStation.Blog and via our @PlayStationEU twitter feed.

 

[Darren.]

Look at my post above, thanks.

 

[Robin]

Look at my post above, thanks.

Oh right,

Just was giving you the official info in case you hadn't seen it because its a few pages back 👍

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Look at my post above, thanks.

So, Sony has no clue what brought down the servers, they launched an investigation to determine the cause.... and you think it is ignorant for a "minority," which is a majority at this point, to assume global service was brought down by attacks, from most likely Anonymous.

Brilliant.

Since the majority of news related companies are suspecting the work of Anonymous, and all signs do point to them, I will have to believe them over your "important maintenance" theory.

 

[Darren.]

Thanks, its tough for me to have no PSN, so i'll be on GTP regularly!!

 

[Nielg5]

Is it back up!?

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Is it back up!?

No could be several days. (PS Blog)

 

[Darren.]

So, Sony has no clue what brought down the servers, they launched an investigation to determine the cause.... and you think it is ignorant for a "minority," which is a majority at this point, to assume global service was brought down by attacks, from most likely Anonymous.

Brilliant.

Since the majority of news related companies are suspecting the work of Anonymous, and all signs do point to them, I will have to believe them over your "important maintenance" theory.

I say minority, because there are 1,000s of members on GTP

 

[Nielg5]

No could be several days. (PS Blog)

🤬 my life is now over