Ovals VS Road Courses

[Earth]

It's very much the same with all American sport, baseball, basketball, american football, NASCAR, Ice hockey; no one outside American really give two hoots about any of it, and it's really only the Americans who play these sports on any scale. Culturally everyone is aware that they exist, but that's about the extent of it.

What sports are played in the UK? In order for these sports to be good do they have to all be played worldwide? In the world is it really all just soccer and F1, thats it? Come on down off your high horse. For the longest time skysports use to have the WW freaking E on the front of their webpage. They've only just recently replaced it with the NFL.

Ask Japan or Latin America how little they care about baseball. Ask Canada or Russia how little they care about hockey. There are even basketball leagues worldwide, even in China.

Your post is completely wrong

The only major sport from the United States that has not much interest elsewhere is american football, but even Canada has a football league., the CFL.

This thread is pretty much out of control, those who do not like ovals are complaining at the inclusion of two ovals, and a handful of stock cars, despite the fact the ovals have built in quality, prestigious roadcourses and the cars can be raced at any track, oval or roadcourse.

What I see is selfishness taken to a new level. As I've stated plenty of times, slogging through the rally stages will be about as bitter to me as will racing the ovals to you. But why am I not complaining? Thats right, Im not selfish, and I understand some will enjoy that part of the game and in the end running a few rally races is not really all that bad. Would it be logical for me to wish the WRC and rally racing have no part in GT5?

I'm not asking anyone to like oval racing, but to ask for the removal of just two oval tracks while you turn around and ask for alot of rally tracks that are useless to 95
% of the cars in theh game but at the same time ask for the removal of 4 stock cars and perhaps the single indycar from the game because you dislike ovals is overboard.

Again, I think there should be fare more oroadcourses in GT5 then ovals because there are far more worthy roadcourses then ovals in the world.

PD is making smart moves in which ovals they include so that the game does not become all about NASCAR. They have included ovals that have quality roadcourses.

Daytona, INdy, twin ring motegi, all have quality roadcourses built inside or around them.

 

[arvin charles]

Theres nothing in the world like Indianapolis, 3-wide starts, 4 lap qualifying average insterad of just one lap.

The Triple Crown of Motorsports:

- Indianapolis 500
- Formula 1 Title/Monaco GP win
- 24 Hours of Le Mans

The Triple Crown of Endurance Rracing

- 24 Hours of Le Mans
- 24 hours of Daytona
- 12 hours of Sebring

Gran Turismo tracks from that list:

- Indianapolis
- Daytona
- Monaco

Note the absence of Spa, Nurburgring, etc. The ring is a great testing track

Tell me again who won the 24 hours of Nurburgring last year? I watched the majority of the race and couldnt tell you! Fact is nobody cares.

I'll agree with your triple crown assessment, but I have to say that Daytona's prestige & international recognition has faded in recent years since they aligned themselves with ISC & Grand Am.

They did have a LOT of international recognition back when factory prototypes were racing over there. The poster who said that Daytona would be unknown if not for a SEGA video game is completely untrue.

BTW, Manthey's Porsche RSR won the 24h of the Ring the past 4 years running. But I'm a Porsche fan, so I know that...

 

[Earth]

I'll agree with your triple crown assessment, but I have to say that Daytona's prestige & international recognition has faded in recent years since they aligned themselves with ISC & Grand Am.

They did have a LOT of international recognition back when factory prototypes were racing over there. The poster who said that Daytona would be unknown if not for a SEGA video game is completely untrue.

BTW, Manthey's Porsche RSR won the 24h of the Ring the past 4 years running. But I'm a Porsche fan, so I know that...

Not sure if you were implying this, but its not a personal assessment. If you click on the hyperlinks you will see the wikipeda page ab out triple crowns. The triple crowns are widely agreed upon. Jacques Villeneuve almost joined Graham Hill as the only driver to acheive the triple crown when he finished 2nd at Le mans a couples years back.

Indy has lost alot of prestige as well since the split in 1996. Back then I dont know if there was a race in the world that mattered more, maybe lemans because it had a bigger manufacturer impact then Indy did.

Well that's cheap. He specifically stated that the prestige of a track is linked to the region. I'm sorry but over here no one cares about Indy or Daytona. Maybe Indy when it was on the F1 calender, but definately not Daytona. Why would we? They're run in a competition that has nothing to do with our region. Regular circuits on the F1 calender have much bigger status over here, like Silverstone, Monaco, Suzuka, Monza and naturally Spa-Francorchamps which is legendary over here.

Well then your no different then the stereotypical NASCAR fan who only follows NASCAR because he knows or doesnt care about anything else.

I dont follow F1 because of how thrilling the racing is, I follow it because of its position at the forefront of hte motorsport world

 

[Ardius]

They did have a LOT of international recognition back when factory prototypes were racing over there. The poster who said that Daytona would be unknown if not for a SEGA video game is completely untrue.

Indeed, my first knowledge of Daytona came from researching the success of TWR Jaguar in the Group C days and hence some of my favourite liveries.

Indy and its Indy 500 race were only part of the crown because back when this idea came around was the 1950s when it was still part of the Formula 1 World Championship and there were many drivers who raced there as well F1 and Le Mans.
Its public awareness has come and gone as we went through phases of CART, etc.

Not that this makes it any less prestiguous but I don't think the Triple Crown of Motorsport is really relevant argument for saying such places are globally prestiguous in the modern day.
After all, not many people even know of the Triple Crown, especially as only one person has ever accomplished it in either definition.

 

[arvin charles]

Not sure if you were implying this, but its not a personal assessment. If you click on the hyperlinks you will see the wikipeda page ab out triple crowns. The triple crowns are widely agreed upon. Jacques Villeneuve almost joined Graham Hill as the only driver to acheive the triple crown when he finished 2nd at Le mans a couples years back.

Indy has lost alot of prestige as well since the split in 1996. Back then I dont know if there was a race in the world that mattered more, maybe lemans because it had a bigger manufacturer impact then Indy did.

I know it's generally agreed upon, however there are many in sports car racing who feel the same as I do about the Daytona 24h & how it's been mis-managed in recent years.

And I also agree with your assessment about Indy.

Not that this makes it any less prestiguous but I don't think the Triple Crown of Motorsport is really relevant argument for saying such places are globally prestiguous in the modern day.
After all, not many people even know of the Triple Crown, especially as only one person has ever accomplished it in either definition.

I think part of the reason is that drivers these days don't really cross over to different racing disciplines like they used to back in the day.

 

[Nattefrost]

Well then your no different then the stereotypical NASCAR fan who only follows NASCAR because he knows or doesnt care about anything else.

I dont follow F1 because of how thrilling the racing is, I follow it because of its position at the forefront of hte motorsport world

What's that supposed to mean? I haven't even said anything about me personally, just what the general opinion is over here. And if you really want to know, I don't follow NASCAR because I have no intrest in it. I honestly think it's boring to watch, no offense or disrespect meant to the drivers etc.

You're very quick to jump on everything that's said here. Calm down a bit. You'll just have to accept the fact that it's just not very popular here.

 

[Ardius]

I think part of the reason is that drivers these days don't really cross over to different racing disciplines like they used to back in the day.

I disagree, they do it a lot still. If you look at the entry list for Le Mans each year, you will see many ex-F1 drivers and even a couple of current ones from time to time.
Even at Indy, there are many drivers who have at least tested for F1 teams or were part of the junior ladder that leads to F1.

I mean, nowadays we still have people talking about Loeb driving F1, Raikkonen driving WRC, Rossi driving F1....cross-overs are still very popular.

 

[Sm0k3:D]

No problem. Track Editor is the solution to this. Then you can make all ovals you want... Or maybe all Rally tracks you want...
We NEED a track Editor. XD

 

[RACECAR]

Somehow against what I said, I actually feel compelled to post in here again (even though I know some is gonna piss me off).

You don't understand why people want more road courses than others, since this thread is about ovals vs. road course then obviously you are in favour of having more ovals or at least an equal number of them. A lot of people find ovals to be boring and road courses to be fun, so this is why they think there should be more road courses then ovals.

How in the hell does that post indicate I'm pushing Ovals on others? I asked a question regarding why they feel the way they do, I didn't say or have any post that in any way has me declaring there should be more Ovals in any way. Not only have you accused me of doing something I again didn't do, but now you're assuming I'm doing based on a damn question? All the while, you've got some of these snobs who want no ovals (with none of the Oval racing fans wanting Road courses to be kicked off the game) so are you telling me its ok for them to force out ovals in favor of only road courses but its not okay for Oval fans to do it?

And if you hate these threads so much why keep posting in them?

Maybe I'm just easily upset by the sheer amount of ignorance contained in them. Of course this particular thread I've wanted closed for sometime but apparently no one is listening.

 

[TouringDevotee]

You all sound like you need a good drink.

Contrary to some posts, NASCAR supporters have not been taking the time to explain their sport without flinging around insults. How many posts have explained the difficulty of NASCAR while also pissing on others tracks (Suzuka, Tsukuba [not my favorite], and all other tracks in GT that weren't Nürburgring or Circuit de la Sarthe [although one off you went off on Sarthe as well]).

Not that non-NASCAR fans have been sweethearts.

The current result is 13 pages of "ovals suck" and "my 2 favorite ovals are better than your circuits." 👍

I can't say that I'd like to drive an oval on my own, but I'm not sure that the shape of the track is the only thing on the mind of NASCAR drivers. Those crazy 🤬 drive in such tight packs, that it makes for interesting opportunities with regard to passing and defending and so online with an oval will be good, I have no doubt about this.

Talk of track prestige, Triple Crown of Motorsport, Triple Crown of Endurance and whatnot, really amounts to little more than rhetoric. I don't personally care who has sanctioned, blessed, or agreed upon such things, though they are great marketing tools.

I like a track based on its personality, and nothing more (aside from the small amounts of hype that none of us can escape).

 

[LSX]

I've not pissed on any tracks, I have not flung any insults around either thanks. I'd like to not be lumped in with anything like that, being as I think I was defending both sides. It's no different coming from either side. And if anything, the only thing the oval supporters have done is try and get the road people to acknowledge that the prestigious ovals are on par with the prestigious road circuits. I'm sure I missed something somewhere, but at least that is what I've got from it all.

As long as we have a good representation of what oval racing is, from short track all the way to super speedway, I'll be fine. That's at most 5 tracks, more are always welcome.

I love Nascar and oval racing, be it on dirt or asphalt. I love sports car and open wheel racing, regardless of where, it's all about the speed and the wiz-bang technology. I'm an equal opportunity lover of all things motorsports. There is no reason to hate, all your doing is limiting yourself, so take your feet out of the stirrups, and hop off the high horse, relax and enjoy good racing. Who cares if it's on an oval or a road course, it's racing, is that not what it's/we're all about in the first place?

I have a feeling, due to the lack of European exposure to oval racing like we have in the States, people write it off as sub standard. But if you would experience it, without a bias, you'd have to be stone cold dead not to come away from a race grinning after the finish, I've converted many who did nothing but scoff at oval racing, the first race I brought them to a race at Daytona. It does not hurt, I promise, it's just a different way of doing things.

That said, I LOVE F1, even if most of the passing is not on track. The famous circuits, the insanity of standing starts and the immense levels of down force, which make some incredible things possible just blow me away. The thing is though, it likely has the same crappy exposure here in the States as oval racing does everywhere else. I don't care though, I went into it being open minded, sure it's not as exciting when you take it for face value. It's pretty much parade laps at qualifying pace, with the odd dive bomb maneuver thrown in for good measure. But learn what it is, and dig a little deeper, and it's great racing as well, there is so much strategy involved, it's just great. If given the chance, I'd be all over attending F1 races, but I can't so I wont bother.

I'm just using F1 as an example, even touring cars are great fun to watch.

Oval, street, road course, off road, rally, off shore boats, drag racing, who cares, it's racing, which is all I care about. The more varieties available to me in GT5 the better, I hope everything is represented fairly. Give things a chance, no need for circuit snobbery.

See you haters on the high banks, and dive bombing to your inside in the hairpins.

What you just said is why I enjoy oval racing, the tight packs of cars. There is ALWAYS a battle for position, sure the cars spread out, and one guy can pull out a 3-5 second lead, but there will be a caution which will bunch them back up at one point of another. The thing is, oval racing is way more exciting in person, when you can see the sparks flying out from underneath the cars, smell the fuel, blah blah, I know I've explained this before, maybe just not in this thread, but that also holds true to ANY form of racing, for me at least.. I don't care what they race on, just so long as there is a race taking place.

I will take a drink though if your buying

 

[Exorcet]

Haha, I got so mad today when I found out that Forza had a dedicated NASCAR mode online, but no ALMS rules. It got me thinking about this thread.

Think about what it's like for oval fans, they've been left out for a while, only getting the minimum of what they want.

Besides, isn't GT supposed to be an automotive encyclopedia? What good encyclopedia would pick and choose what topics to cover? Ovals have been in GT since the beginning, so it's not like the formula is being changed.

 

[Joey D]

You all sound like you need a good drink.

Word. There has some been some real worked up people in this thread, I'll admit though I probably haven't been the coolest either.

 

[RACECAR]

You all sound like you need a good drink.

What do you recommend because looking at my previous posts, I definately could use one. I was definately worked up not only over this seemingly useless age old argument, but then I got accused of something I didn't do and off went my head(and whatever sense I had left). Let me say that while I respect others preferences, I don't respect when it involves putting theirs over another, something that not once I did in the thread. As for my view on this issue, I dislike the idea of just only appealing to one crowd. Hell while we are arguing about these kind s of tracks, the Drag race fans are left out even more as outside a low budget licensed NHRA game, they barely even have any representation in mainstream racing games. I think Forza 3 the only one with it included. I'm all for everyone having equal inclusion and as a fan of most motorsports(that I know of), I'd be happy to have them all if possible.

 

[TouringDevotee]

I will take a drink though if your buying

Word. There has some been some real worked up people in this thread, I'll admit though I probably haven't been the coolest either.

What do you recommend because looking at my previous posts, I definately could use one.

For this thread, I'm recommending some nice Elijah Craig 18yr Single Barrel, Kentucky Straight Bourbon. And yeah, I'll buy the rounds.

 

[[UK] ANDYW]

Only personal opinion, but I'd fall asleep at the wheel if I had to race more than 30 minutes on an oval track..

I'm sure the real thing could be entertaining to watch (mainly the crashes) but I dont think it transferred very well to a racing game (in GT4 at least)

 

[Northstar]

Only personal opinion, but I'd fall asleep at the wheel if I had to race more than 30 minutes on an oval track..

I'm sure the real thing could be entertaining to watch (mainly the crashes) but I don't think it transferred very well to a racing game (in GT4 at least)

I wouldn't base an oval experience off of past GT's, it's hard to get a good feel of something like oval racing with only 5 other cars on track.

 

[lpfuelfan42]

Guys? Can't we all just get along? EDIT: Can anyone tell me what's wrong? I can't get some youtube clips to show up.

 

[Nattefrost]

Inside the Youtube tags, you only need to have the part of the link behind "watch?v=". Like this:

Guys? Can't we all just get along? EDIT: Can anyone tell me what's wrong? I can't get some youtube clips to show up.

 

[lpfuelfan42]

Woohoo! Thanks!

 

[MatskiMonk]

MOL @ Jeff Gordon... "It's nice to have a car that just does what you want it to!"

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

I don't mind if they stick in a couple of ovals (preferably ones with infield track areas so they aren't completely wasted on me) but I'd rather they didn't insist you race on them in order to finish the game, like they did with the last couple of editions.

Fair enough - some people like that sort of thing but driving round in circles bores the living hell out of me and makes completing the game less fun - get to the front, stick it in b-spec mode and go play a PC game or something for a couple of hours until it's finished the 300-lap, round in circles, lose the will to live - endurance challenge.

 

[Coiler]

20 ovals and 70 normal tracks:idea:

 

[F1 fan]

I voted for a few ovals and mostly road courses. I would like to see quite a few ovals included, but not at the expense of road courses. Daytona is a tri oval, indy is more of a square oval.

I would like to see Dover International and Bristol Speedway added and Motegi return to the series. Maybe a few more. Ovals can be really fun. No match for a proper road course (IMO) but I've recently became interested in Indy and Nascar (in the past few years) for the close, fast racing. Although GT5 will probably be 16 car races max, there is something pretty special seeing 40 odd cars flying round the first corner, with little room to move.

 

[Heath_1]

20 ovals and 70 normal tracks:idea:

That sounds good.

 

[Seismica]

20 ovals and 70 normal tracks:idea:

Too many Ovals

 

[Earth]

Too many Ovals

I know pretty much every oval I can tell you there are not 20 GT worthy ovals in the world.

Maybe around half a dozen, and thats it.

As it stands the only 3 ovals in GT5 will probably be Daytona, Indy, and Twin Ring Motegi which all have roadcourses. Not to mention the test course.

I'm satisfied with that, but I would like to see perhaps Bristol, darlington or charlotte released as DLC at some point.

I wouldn't base an oval experience off of past GT's, it's hard to get a good feel of something like oval racing with only 5 other cars on track.

I dont think its any use, you could show them a 5-wide finish at an oval with 40 cars 1 seconed behind and they would call it boring. I'm just happy that I grew up with both oval and road racing and can appreciate the unique challenge and excitement each create

 

[eSZee]

What's the course in Englandland that Fifth Gear had it's HQ on and TopGear filmed the lorry episode?

 

[Northstar]

What's the course in Englandland that Fifth Gear had it's HQ on and TopGear filmed the lorry episode?

Not sure as I don't watch that show, but it was probably Rockingham.

 

[Ardius]

What's the course in Englandland that Fifth Gear had it's HQ on and TopGear filmed the lorry episode?

Millbrook Proving Ground? Its not really for racing, its purely a testing location. If you're going to start including places like that, surely the Nardo Ring is a must.