Patch 5 for PS4 is therePS4 

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Daz555
What wheel do you have? I'm on the T300 and most people I race with have the G29 and none have reported any serious issues. What issue are you having with the FFB?
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Maybe it's the physics tires updates I had found a perfect setting with patch 4 on my t300 and now it's feels off.. I gave it another go tonight.. 2 hours of messing with sethps etc and not a decent race

I tried several cars and it's a crap shoot to find something that works well.. the wheel rumble issue happens with the Carrera GT as well.

also the AI is once again terrible to race. back to patch 3 with superhuman speed and a very strong tendency to punt you in the rear on 50pct of the starts because your engine bogs down at the green light.. or they suddenly break too heavily in sone turns ... All over the placr. Happened to me in lmp2 and fc tonight.. Man it was getting slowly better with patch 4 but 5 is a major step back imo.
 
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kart.no.38
Yea I use AC a lot, including in the real high end simulators. It's the most accurate but you'd be surprised how affective GTS is when it comes to simulation.

GTS is easy to drive within 5% of the top times but not easy to drive in the top 0.1% and up in that region the fundamentals of driving a car fast apply to the game in the same way they do in real life.

Truth is none of the games feel like the real thing but they can do enough to help you build a good baseline in preparation for it.

BTW in terms of track accuracy, no one comes close to the attention to detail that Gran Turismo places on their real life tracks.
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Once again I don't fully agree with you, but only partially.

Yes it's always hard to be fast in the top 0.1% as you said (for me it's the top 25% maybe as I'm bad :lol:) but that's not the real issue here. There's always a top 0.1% that is just really hard to reach, because it's simply that, the top 0.1%! Even in a game like The crew, NFS or any arcade game there's always a top fast 0.1%.
What point does that claim make?! Does it make it more realistic?!

Excuse my ignorance once again in this matter, as I'm not a real driver like you, but how can GTS be a sim when, in addition to all the issues i and other guys mentioned before, the car can go into corners much faster than what its real counterpart can go? when it's much faster overall (laptimes) than its real counterparts? when lots and lots of simulation aspects are missing (tyres temps, pressures, etc...)? when you can pretty much ride curbs aggressively with no real impact on stability? when it really needs some effort to make the car spin?!
Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I need some real racing experience to be able to judge. I just wish :rolleyes:

Finally, I don't agree with your last statement. I have all 3 games (GTS, AC and PC2) and I've tried to compare for example the Nordshlife in all three.
The best in my view is AC; the curbs, the details, even the graphiti on the asphalt itself, amazing! You can actually see the curb height and inclination from distance!
GTS comes a close second while PC2 in my view looks the worse.
But yeah that's a matter subject to subjective perception and opinions, I guess.

Cheers! :cheers:
 
kart.no.38
BTW in terms of track accuracy, no one comes close to the attention to detail that Gran Turismo places on their real life tracks.
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In terms of visual detail I would agree, however in terms of track surface detail I would have to disagree.

Track surface in GTS is far too smooth and on a number of tracks is missing detail to such a degree that it totally changes the characteristics of the entire track. From personal experience the worst of these is Brands Hatch, with the lack of bumps and missing camber totally changing to way some sections are driven, with the Sheene Curves section being the most obvious. In GTS it can be taken with almost zero drama, while in reality the bumps and camber deeply upset the car as you both approach it and travel through it. The only real world track that seems to buck that trend in GTS in the 'ring, and even that is still to forgiving in comparison to reality.

Its further compounded by the inaccurate FFB in GTS, with the crest at Paddock Hill being a good example, as you travel over this rise while turning you should feel the steering unload and load back up unequally across the two front wheels. Its a very clear and distinct steering trait in reality for any curve over a crest and its utterly absent in GTS.

Then you can add in how absurdly stable cars are under braking in GTS, a trait that comes from a combination of the lack of track surface detail, weak tyre model and rather limited suspension model (dampers in particular).

Now both AC and PC2 (to use titles that are available on PS4 - the list gets bigger when you include PC titles) get these areas right. That's not to say they are perfect, all titles have issues, but in comparison in terms of the physics engine, tyre model and track surface modeling they are a generation ahead of GTS.

That's not to say that I don't still mess around with GTS, but as a development team the direction of resource is quite clear, they biased visuals over everything else, and its just as clear to see that the opposite is true for the likes of AC and PC2 on PS4.
 
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simsimsheree
I am afraid, as a long time GT fan, that GTS is likely my last. PC2 may well have issues, but for those of us that are looking for something that acknowledges the sport, not just provides a sandbox for gamers with cars and tracks but little else, once you play PC2 it is hard to go back to GT. Practice, qualy, weather, race rules, detailed tuning, real life tire selection, AI that challenges you, all the things we wished GTS was going to bring to the franchise and never showed up, it has finally become too much.
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I can definitely agree with this. Unless they go full GT like they can with a ridiculous amount of cars, race cars and customisation options, I can say the same. I'd say it doesn't do that well as a sandbox as it doesn't give you enough options to be.

Scaff
Track surface in GTS is far too smooth and on a number of tracks is missing detail to such a degree that it totally changes the characteristics of the entire track. From personal experience the worst of these is Brands Hatch, with the lack of bumps and missing camber totally changing to way some sections are driven, with the Sheene Curves section being the most obvious. In GTS it can be taken with almost zero drama, while in reality the bumps and camber deeply upset the car as you both approach it and travel through it. The only real world track that seems to buck that trend in GTS in the 'ring, and even that is still to forgiving in comparison to reality.
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Agreed. It's like if the whole of Brands Hatch was resurfaced like an FIA circuit or Watkins Glen was and ruined some of the character of the circuit.
 
I have to agree with the real life GT driver posting here, that GT cars in real life are way easier to drive than these virtual counterparts we struggle to have fun with (sometimes) regardless the "sim" we use. Look and the fresh new Ferrari Challenge car in this update. It handles so bad that It can not be real to life when talking about that car. It's that simple, although I'm afgraid that in this case is due to the already dreadful Pirelli slick (it's called "slick" only) that is found in the track day cars (Vulkan, Zonda etc) and in this Ferrari Challenge car too, unfortunately.

This is what I think I can get to understand what he means with GT cars in GT sport behaving more like the real thing. I believe on what he says there, despite of the fact I've never driven one of those.

However, It's also most noticeable that he still hasn't tried the road car pirelli tire model in PC2, or explored it enough in depth, because it truly is in another level. Assetto Corsa street tire model is a joke (it's so artificially hard that it's most laughable), so is GTSports too (extremely easy in this case), but PC2 street tire is among the best things I've ever tried in a videogame. It's crazy good.

I know you're a GT driver in real life, but you should try road cars in pc2 to understand the level it's been achieved with this game. About GT cars in PC2?, well there's many and in many categories too that would fall in your personal opinion from a true to life perspective. In pc2 you have examples that perfectly matches your description as to how easy a GT3 car handles, such as the Ferrari and the Audi. Also, current GTE cars also match your description to perfection (as to how easy they drive) as long as you mount them on soft tires, like the GT3 cars currently need too after patch 5.0
 
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Daz555
Fair enough but it was not like that from release through patch 4. We race this car every week in our league and now sadly since patch 5 we have had to ditch that car ahead of our new season which starts in a weeks time. Also we can race other road course cars which are faster than the GTO Mustang Transam and they do not have the same problem. This is a very specific problem related to the GTO cars. I have tested the Transam, Diablo and one of the Nissans and they all have the same tyre issue since patch 5.

The patch has broken the tyres completely. For contrast you can race faster and longer on the wet tyres (in the dry!) in the Transam as they are not affected by the broken tyre model which seems to be specific to slick tyres. Another oddity with the Transam is that the car is faster at Indy when the tyres are 100% worn than when they are fresh and warmed up.

Like I said. Broken since patch 5.
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I can't get this to occur on my end, though I'm on PC so that might make a difference.. If I take the SCCA Mustang to Watkins Glen (currently I have the leaderboard record there) and run wets in the dry, the left front nukes itself in the outer loop on the first lap and the car becomes undrivable.
 
simsimsheree
Kart... an interesting perspective on GTS vs. PC2. But have you considered that, as a fan of GT going back several games, you are perhaps being a bit over-indulgent, like you would with an old friend?

I agree with several things you have said, but I find it hard to come to grips with GTS's low speed grip/tire model. On the edge, yes, it can be consistent, but I have a big problem with low speed grip (launching is ridiculous, and that is indicative of what is going on at very low speeds when taking tight hairpins, or recovering from spins etc.).

And yes, I find GTS's sounds much improved in some cases, and PC2's has some underwhelming cars, but taken as a whole, I still really can't get over the vacuum cleaner analogy. There are some cars in PC2 that are deafeningly visceral, something hard to find in anything in GTS.

But what is more puzzling is the complete lack of any decent track limits/pit penalties, returning of position after belting someone out the way, and the basic complete lack of any semblance to real racing in GTS. Is turning on the PS4 and booting up GTS more a way of getting away from those things for you, or does it not bother you that GTS seems to provide cars and tracks (and damn few of the latter!) but seems to basically not care about the rules of the sport?

Collision physics in GTS seems designed to not cause much disturbance to either car, but the slightest touch in PC2 tends to have pretty close to real world consequences. Are you happier with GTS simply because it is an escape from real racing, whereas most of us interested in the sport are more looking for a game that gets us closest to something we DON'T get to do in real life?!

I agree visually, GTS's real tracks are gorgeous, but again, does static time of day and no weather, no track rubbering in and the rest of it make it worth while? Watching the dry line come in as the sun goes down after a shower is, IMHO, well worth a bit of graphic compromise!

I am afraid, as a long time GT fan, that GTS is likely my last. PC2 may well have issues, but for those of us that are looking for something that acknowledges the sport, not just provides a sandbox for gamers with cars and tracks but little else, once you play PC2 it is hard to go back to GT. Practice, qualy, weather, race rules, detailed tuning, real life tire selection, AI that challenges you, all the things we wished GTS was going to bring to the franchise and never showed up, it has finally become too much.

I'm looking forward to the new 'ultimate' AC release. Perhaps time to give that handling model a try.
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Your point of view is not incorrect at all, however my only sticking point is that I am not talking about each title in terms of a good game. PC2 is a great game, it has awesome selection of cars, a tire model which degrades and weather variations.

My opinion is based on how they feel at the limit, when you're trying to extract the ultimate lap time. And for me, GTS is the better candidate but please bear in mind that I am talking about this from the perspective of Playstation 4. The physics in PC2 on a PC may be exponentially better, but I cannot comment on that.

As a game, GTS falls short because of its lack of content, weather etc. but when it comes to physics - at the last 0.5% - it's better than PC2.
 
fernandito
As a game, GTS falls short because of its lack of content, weather etc. but when it comes to physics - at the last 0.5% - it's better than PC2.
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It's all subjective when it comes down to it and from my perspective I'd have to disagree with that 0.5% bit. Project Cars 2 is still better - not all cars of course. Some are better and some are worse. Same is true for the tracks.
 
kart.no.38
BTW in terms of track accuracy, no one comes close to the attention to detail that Gran Turismo places on their real life tracks.
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Yes I can definitely see that they spent loads of time on detailed track side replication but cannot get the most important bit right, the track surface.
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The asphalt on all the tracks are incredibly smooth it just results in a very boring drive for me and that's without touching on the physics or tire model.

I'm still partial to AC, PC2 and Rfactor2 but do wish GT continued success.
 
I've been working at GTS ever since it released. At the time I had bought PC2 but the online model in GTS had me hooked and therefore PC2 gathered dust. I practiced a lot on GT, reached rank SS and started hitting top 10 times on the daily leaderboards (usually knocked down to top 30 or so by the end of the day). Nowhere near alien but I was pretty satisfied with my improvement!

I got a little burnt out and thought I'd give PC2 a good run. It's safe to say GT has taught me terrible habits and I'm paying the price! In GT, track surface does little to the car and nearly all cars are 100% stable when braking, even while turning. PC2 is brutal in this regard - you feel every single bump and change in camber, you feel the weight shift and most significantly, braking aggresively like I did in GT leaves you facing the wrong way! Braking without ABS in GT is utter garbage due to the lack of adjustable pedal settings, braking with ABS in GT allows near perfect trail braking and no need to worry about threshold braking at all. I'm finding it hard to be consistent under braking in PC2 and it's frustrating but definitely more realistic.

It would be very easy to load up GT, be fairly fast and forget about this foray, but the fact of the matter is that PC2 has much better physics and I quite like the challenge of re-learning how to get my pace back. I love GT to bits and the online is very well done, but it is clear that the physics are very dumbed down and it is a little bit too easy to reach 99.9%
 
IAMDOODLEBUG
It's safe to say GT has taught me terrible habits and I'm paying the price! In GT, track surface does little to the car and nearly all cars are 100% stable when braking, even while turning. PC2 is brutal in this regard - you feel every single bump and change in camber, you feel the weight shift and most significantly, braking aggresively like I did in GT leaves you facing the wrong way
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Yup, braking is trivial in GTS, but in PCars2 it requires very good car and track knowledge, and lots of practice. In GTS, I can take any car I want and drive it consistently on any track within a few laps - the physics model is that simple. But in PCars2, switching, say, from a GT3 car to a Renault Clio will require over an hour for me to adjust properly.

Braking can be made easier in PCars2 by increasing the ABS assistance, though. By default, it's only set to 75%, which allows for quite a lot of tire lock-up, which makes the car feel very unstable under hard braking. I normally turn it up to 85-90% to make the cars feel more in control.
 
IAMDOODLEBUG
I got a little burnt out and thought I'd give PC2 a good run. It's safe to say GT has taught me terrible habits and I'm paying the price! In GT, track surface does little to the car and nearly all cars are 100% stable when braking, even while turning. PC2 is brutal in this regard - you feel every single bump and change in camber, you feel the weight shift and most significantly, braking aggresively like I did in GT leaves you facing the wrong way! Braking without ABS in GT is utter garbage due to the lack of adjustable pedal settings, braking with ABS in GT allows near perfect trail braking and no need to worry about threshold braking at all. I'm finding it hard to be consistent under braking in PC2 and it's frustrating but definitely more realistic.

It would be very easy to load up GT, be fairly fast and forget about this foray, but the fact of the matter is that PC2 has much better physics and I quite like the challenge of re-learning how to get my pace back. I love GT to bits and the online is very well done, but it is clear that the physics are very dumbed down and it is a little bit too easy to reach 99.9%
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Exactly what I've said here mate: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/patch-5-for-ps4-is-there.377203/page-3#post-12291326
But it still seems that kart.no.38 still doesn't agree with us and it's really weird coz he's a real racing driver so I gotta respect his opinion. No matter how I formulate my opinion it still has ZERO real life racing experience to back it up.
However, despite all that, I still can't get my head to get what he's saying or really believe it (not that he's lying but I mean it's hard for me to believe).

CodeCmdr
Braking can be made easier in PCars2 by increasing the ABS assistance, though. By default, it's only set to 75%, which allows for quite a lot of tire lock-up, which makes the car feel very unstable under hard braking. I normally turn it up to 85-90% to make the cars feel more in control.
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Yes but that will make your breaking distances a bit longer and thus maybe potentially make you a bit slower.
Ideally, modulating the brake pedal (with ABS off) at exactly the threshold limit of lockups is the best way to brake and the shortest braking distance... But it's easier said than done!
I personally keep it at default.
 
Georgeagea
Yes but that will make your breaking distances a bit longer and thus maybe potentially make you a bit slower.
Ideally, modulating the brake pedal (with ABS off) at exactly the threshold limit of lockups is the best way to brake and the shortest braking distance... But it's easier said than done!
I personally keep it at default.
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Relying on abs in pc2 will make you a lot slower. I use the abs as a tyre lock indicator watching for when it gets activated to see how I have to adjust my brake bias/pressures/pedal application particularly in closed wheelers where you can't see the tyres lock up. The front tyre ffb for mild slip isn't so good, only full lock ups seem to affect my wheel. It's one of the reasons I'm quicker/prefer open wheelers because you can modulate braking on the fly when you visually see the inside front lock but the outside is still rotating. Nice realism. :)

In GTS abs seems to be a required feature of the game physics because ffb is completely non-existent for lock ups.
 
micmansour
So post Patch 5, the new G29 settings that seem to work best are: Raw 100/100/50/25
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Well, I'm trying to find some good settings overall, after getting G29 found this on YouTube, but after 5.02 it seems different, like I don't have the "wheel in hands enough", as well as not enough back info from track...

Setting are:

IMG_20180423_101110.jpg

IMG_20180423_101106.jpg


IMG_20180423_101102.jpg
 
Georgeagea
Exactly what I've said here mate: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/patch-5-for-ps4-is-there.377203/page-3#post-12291326
But it still seems that kart.no.38 still doesn't agree with us and it's really weird coz he's a real racing driver so I gotta respect his opinion. No matter how I formulate my opinion it still has ZERO real life racing experience to back it up.
However, despite all that, I still can't get my head to get what he's saying or really believe it (not that he's lying but I mean it's hard for me to believe).


Y but that will make your breaking distances a bit longer and thus maybe potentially make you a bit slower.
Ideally, modulating the brake pedal (with ABS off) at exactly the threshold limit of lockups is the best way to brake and the shortest braking distance... But it's easier said than done!
I personally keep it at default.
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Yes @Georgeagea , the brakes have always been tricky in PCARS 1 and 2 mate. I've always raced with no assists in both games (in all racing games in fact), it's more difficult of course, but ultimately much more rewarding, and faster. It's a question of braking, then rolling off them while using engine braking, and going down through the gears.

Watch this video of a TT event i've been running in CRAP Club over the last week, watch the speedometer through my lap, and you'll see with my throttle and brake telemetry the technique i use, and have always used.

I believe my time in the Ginetta GT4 at Knockhill is the fastest on PS4 (don't ask how i got around that last hairpin without crashing lol):



It is a fine balance with the brakes, and that braking procedure happens at 1 or 2 tenths of a second at each braking zone, and is just a question of practice in PCARS2 without assists on. I normally turn the brake pressure down to around 70% -in the video it was stock setup, so the brakes were at a very tricky 95% pressure i believe- and that makes a big difference, and reduces lock ups quite a bit.

I can't comment on GTS as i've never played it, and AC is less tricky than PCARS2 with braking in my opinion, it's more subtle, and controllable. Although if you stomp on the brake pedal, the car will lock up no problem lol, but again i put the brake pressure down from 100% default to 80% if needed for not using ABS. And all this i do with the stock plastic pedals that came with my T150.....Practice is all that's needed.

I hope my little insight has helped you fellas, happy racing! ;)
 
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@HammyMansell

I'd very much like to see your technique around Catalunya if possible please mate.
Same car, stock setup, aids off, abs low.
I have the equivalent wheel on the 1X, a TMX with stock peddles.
But cannot for the life of me nail sector 3, especially that last chicane, I hate it :).
 
Mr Grumpy
@HammyMansell

I'd very much like to see your technique around Catalunya if possible please mate.
Same car, stock setup, aids off, abs low.
I have the equivalent wheel on the 1X, a TMX with stock peddles.
But cannot for the life of me nail sector 3, especially that last chicane, I hate it :).
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Ok mate i'll give it a go and post a video a bit later! No worries! ;)
 
@HammyMansell thank you very much sir.

Edit: you're 2 seconds faster than me :)
I noticed alot of corners you stayed in 3rd where I dip into 2nd, that's where I'm losing time as you're carrying alot more speed through & out of the corners & down the straight.

Would you mind sharing your FFB settings please.
I'm running Raw, 80, 20, 60, 40. Which is a slight tweak of what @Scaff is running on his T300 (I think that's his wheel anyways)
 
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Thought I'd share an onboard from today's testing around Paul Ricard in a 488 GT3. You can make some comparisons to sound and (to me...) steering ratios in reference to the games. Having spent a lot of time on AC recently (with PS4) I cannot quite wrap my head around the insanely quick steering, especially compared to how it is in real life:



Did you Know: The 488 GT3 uses the same steering rack as the 488 road car
 
kart.no.38
Thought I'd share an onboard from today's testing around Paul Ricard in a 488 GT3. You can make some comparisons to sound and (to me...) steering ratios in reference to the games. Having spent a lot of time on AC recently (with PS4) I cannot quite wrap my head around the insanely quick steering, especially compared to how it is in real life:



Did you Know: The 488 GT3 uses the same steering rack as the 488 road car
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Careful of those cold tyres. Remember, they toss you off into the kitty litter on the slightest tab of the throttle or brakes.... or maybe not...
 

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