PD must be doing something awesome.

[jimipitbull]

Bugs are proof of future features. Wow.

This is deliberately misleading, nowhere did I say it is proof.

Optimistic isn't the word I would use...but ok

I'd much rather be optimistic than pessimistic. Brighter outlook on life, that sort of thing.

Your leaps in logic to try to defend PD and Kaz's failures are staggering.

Except I'm not defending anyone, just putting forward a theory.

Logic? What logic?

Negativity breeds contempt Johnny

Yeah I guess you are right! LOL.
Leaps from logic to wonderland I suppose..

Hey lets all pick on someone for being positive. Only the weak minded need to gang up like this.

 

[alex1369]

There would be no bugs if game was finished.
Just remember when you had ps1/2 and played games...
Did any of ps1/2 games were bugged or broken? NO the werent cuz they were finished, unlike today where you get half finished games and then they try to repair them...
Id rater wait for next GT to be in 5 years or more but finished, without bugs than that they release it at the end of the year 4 ps4 with bugs again..

 

[SWoRd]

There would be no bugs if game was finished.

Correct.

Just remember when you had ps1/2 and played games...
Did any of ps1/2 games were bugged or broken? NO the werent cuz they were finished, unlike today where you get half finished games and then they try to repair them...

Yes, that's how it works these days. The game is much more complex than the PS1 games, and there's a greater time-to-market pressure.

Id rater wait for next GT to be in 5 years or more but finished, without bugs than that they release it at the end of the year 4 ps4 with bugs again..

I'm afraid you'll be waiting in vain for something that was a thing of the past. :-(
The PS4 version will have even more features and complex functions, and by logic deduction it will have more bugs than the previous more simple versions.

 

[Imari]

Did any of ps1/2 games were bugged or broken? NO the werent cuz they were finished, unlike today where you get half finished games and then they try to repair them...

Funny story: Gran Turismo 2 was kind of buggy. Not really anything compared to the standards of today, but at the time it was somewhat notable.

 

[alex1369]

Im not talking about GT1,2,3,4. Im talking about all possible games for ps1,ps2 like football, shooting, fightning, driving and all other genres...

 

[gbypoons]

Just look at the way fixes are rolled out. Every fix requires a fix.

 

[Imari]

Im not talking about GT1,2,3,4. Im talking about all possible games for ps1,ps2 like football, shooting, fightning, driving and all other genres...

You asked if any ps1/2 games were bugged or broken. You said the answer was no.

The answer is actually yes. I was merely providing you with one example, and it happened to be a relevant one. It's by no means the only buggy PS1 game.

 

[Morphisor]

Im not talking about GT1,2,3,4. Im talking about all possible games for ps1,ps2 like football, shooting, fightning, driving and all other genres...

Even then you are wrong. There were probably just as many bugged games out there as there are today. But it's not as likely that many people remember those games with serious game-changing or even breaking bugs. Why? Because almost without exception those games failed miserably.

A 2 minute youtube search came with this for example; tell me these aren't some amazing bugs.

 

[Tenacious D]

Id rater wait for next GT to be in 5 years or more but finished, without bugs than that they release it at the end of the year 4 ps4 with bugs again..

Oh dear Lord... the thought of having to wait five years for GT7 makes my hair hurt.

I'm grateful to have GT6 now to enjoy while PD does whatever they're doing. Having a game most consider half baked is better to me than not having it and aching for it, like we did waiting for GT5. It was getting ugly in here in 2009, and there were a lot of "Release it NOW and patch it LATER, Kaz!" posts, so a lot of people agree with me. Released buggy as heck, no one wants that, but as Morphistor and others have said, you can't find a bug free game. As long as the bugs are few and not too obnoxious, and most of the content is there, I'd rather have GT7 earlier. Caveat: as long as they can extend the game with more events in single player later on, or we get a robust Event Maker. I do want a nice LONG GT7 game.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Even then you are wrong. There were probably just as many bugged games out there as there are today. But it's not as likely that many people remember those games with serious game-changing or even breaking bugs. Why? Because almost without exception those games failed miserably.

A 2 minute youtube search came with this for example; tell me these aren't some amazing bugs.

Yeah, Driver 1 also had its fair share of bugs. What it did was pretty revolutionary at the time though.

 

[NA]

The difference was, that back then, most devs play tested the heck out of a game, knowing that there would be no option to patch post release.

There were bugs. Many of them rare, or otherwise minor, but even the best devs sometimes released games with serious game breaking issues. Of course, games from a "fly by night" dev could greatly increase the chances for such bugs.

All in all though, 15 years or more ago, you really had to mess up before anything was bad enough that most people today would even remember that you're game was buggy. Accounts of bugs in old video games are not hard to find on the internet though, and sometimes they even equate to fond memories.

Now the devs seem to be more willing to release first, and fix later. Some seem to abuse the patch option has a matter of policy. There is definitely more potential for serious issues to crop up in the first days of release, and sometimes one definitely gets the feeling, that has consumers, we just paid to become beta testers.

Still, 20 years from now, I'll be interested to see how people remember the bugs from today's games. I wonder if my 65 year old butt will be sitting in front of my 3D holoscreen virtual reality projector, watching the images of 20 years olds telling me how great things were in 2014, lol.

 

[bambam2]

I keep failing to understand how comparing GT to the worst and buggiest games makes GT look good.

 

[Imari]

It was getting ugly in here in 2009, and there were a lot of "Release it NOW and patch it LATER, Kaz!" posts, so a lot of people agree with me.

To be fair, if Kaz hadn't made the enormous mistake of being quoted saying "We can release any time we want" then the screaming would likely not have been quite as loud.

Still loud, it had been a long, long time since GT4. But when the head of the development studio says they have a finished product that could be released and they don't, I don't think it's unusual that hungry fans make a fuss.

It's like responding to "Are we there yet?" with "Yes, but you can't get out of the car. Sit there and shut up."

Obviously in retrospect it would have been a nightmare had they released in 2009. Who knows how much worse the game was at that point. But going on what information was available, I think the fuss was not unreasonable.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

There would be no bugs if game was finished.

Correction, there would be no bugs if they had not began coding yet.
There is no such thing as a complex piece of software without a few bugs in it, for the most part those bugs are minor and don't become an issue but they are always present in everything beyond the simplest of programs

Just remember when you had ps1/2 and played games...
Did any of ps1/2 games were bugged or broken?

Broken? No and neither is GT6.

Bugged definitely they just did not have a way to patch the bugs so what you got on day one is what you got bugs and all where as now they have the ability to patch the software are repair buggy code as well as add new features and content if they want.

GT4 had bugs, there were issues with the tuning settings being reversed, there were issues where sometimes the game would freeze and you had to reboot the system and likely others that I have forgotten about but the bottom line is that I have not saw a game yet [at least not one of any size] that did not have a few issues and some of them were often major enough to crash the system.

 

[Tenacious D]

To be fair, if Kaz hadn't made the enormous mistake of being quoted saying "We can release any time we want" then the screaming would likely not have been quite as loud.

I was in the thick of it, and "the hunger" had been building since Prologue's release in 2008. Every month it got worse. Since the earliest I can see that Kaz made that "We could release GT5 now" statement was June 2009, all that did was fan flames that were already burning. With nearly two years from the release of Prologue to GT5 itself, it was pretty clear that the fans would have been getting pirchforkie no matter what.

 

[Imari]

I was in the thick of it, and "the hunger" had been building since Prologue's release in 2008. Every month it got worse. Since the earliest I can see that Kaz made that "We could release GT5 now" statement was June 2009, all that did was fan flames that were already burning. With nearly two years from the release of Prologue to GT5 itself, it was pretty clear that the fans would have been getting pirchforkie no matter what.

It's true. GT5P bought them a year at best, as it did with GT4 Prologue. People were going to be pushing for release regardless after that one year. Kaz made it worse, but I agree that it would have been relatively terrible regardless of anything else.

It was nearly THREE years from GT5P to GT5, December 2007 to November 2010. If you give them the benefit of the doubt and use the EU dates, March 2008 to November 2010, it's still two and a half years plus change. Way too long, in anyone's book.

------------

Comment on GT7 in general:

I think PD could do well to look at seriously adopting a base game + expansions model if they intend to keep doing this. Sell a base game with limited content at a cheap price. Sell an expansion for that each year, for a cheap price. Continue for entire console cycle, releasing cut price bundles as necessary later in the generation to let people buy in for a reasonable price. MMOs tend to do this, or did back when I played them, and I think it could work well for a game like GT.

They've already sort of got the framework in place with the concept of Spec updates, they'd just need to start charging for them.

It would seem to suit their development style, and I think would be more pleasing to the customers. If major updates are paid then there's incentive for Sony/PD to advertise and inform the customer base. And each Spec update would be complete as released, so no whinging about promises pending or not kept. If they're going to do the small-chunks-regularly-released style of game release, they might as well embrace the concept wholly.

 

[GTCHAMPION1]

All I want is to remove the rear Spoiler on my Supra RZ... ohh! and I need an extra 150hp on the Supra RZ too, thats without the NOS!

 

[JackC8]

At his point if PD were to come out with anything at all it would be a surprise to me. Like that "at least" one new track each month as DLC they promised - if they were to come out with ONE track by June I would be surprised. Or the track creator that was supposed to be included at launch - if that were to EVER be added to the game I'd be surprised.

 

[lGNAl]

Waiting for GT5 to go offline so we can get our stuff.

 

[Tenacious D]

I think PD could do well to look at seriously adopting a base game + expansions model if they intend to keep doing this. Sell a base game with limited content at a cheap price. Sell an expansion for that each year, for a cheap price. Continue for entire console cycle, releasing cut price bundles as necessary later in the generation to let people buy in for a reasonable price. MMOs tend to do this, or did back when I played them, and I think it could work well for a game like GT.

They could do this. As you say, the pattern is kind of being established. I'm hesitant to go for this emotionally, because like many others, we're invested in the notion of The Big Game like GT2 and 4, a massive complete package that has a whole infrastructure built that PD can add bits and pieces to, like side dishes to a banquet.

However, this would give PD incentive to produce content of good quality in a timely fashion, and SONY would have ground to lean on the team to keep to something of a schedule for it. The one thing I and many fans would insist on is that it do work like your MMO example, in that expansion packs both added new quests and goodies to enjoy, but also meshed with the established world fairly seamlessly. Like, if a track was suitable to some racing league like Hockenheim would for WTCC, DTM or Formula 1 (GT), then I'd like for PD to update such events to include the track in the event list. Also, I'd hope that a robust Event Maker and Course Maker would be available to stretch out the initial single player package, so we wouldn't have to depend on online events to give us something new to do with a smaller first edition.

I'm hoping that PD takes the GT2 and 4 model to heart, because I'm in harmony with the caterwauling over Forza 5. Done right though, I'd be fine with DLC packages. I kind of dread the thought of waiting for an ALMS, WTCC or WRC DLC pack though, so let's hope if they follow this course, it is done right.

 

[Ferrari458Italia]

One thing about Microsoft is that they generally like to announce information as soon as they can.

while from my past experience it seems like Sony likes to hold off on information and then release a huge chunk of information at once to us..

though I can't say I'm a fan of this system, but I suppose it works.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Waiting for GT5 to go offline so we can get our stuff.

Same here. Maybe PD splitted their staff up to support both games, but they really should've ended it after GT6 released...

(-.-')

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

There are a few things PD could be doing now, we won't know which one is true for quite a while because they'll never tell us for some reason. They are:
1. Preparing GT6 Spec II, which will bring all (most) of the promised features in the big update.
2. Fixing bugs and working on little bits of content to add sporadically throughout the year, hopefully in addition to 1
3. Dumping work on GT6 for GT7 or GT7P instead. (I hope not , not yet)
4. Getting their monthly tracks and VGTs ready for May 20
5. Scratching their heads trying to figure out how the GPS course maker is actually going to work

 

[Zelalem]

6. Think about ideas nobody cares about. Driving on the moon for example.

 

[jimipitbull]

6. Think about ideas nobody cares about. Driving on the moon for example.

I care about the moon. I'd even ride a BMX there if it were possible.

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

I care about the moon. I'd even ride a BMX there if it were possible.

Hooray for Moon! We need more Moon Missions though, or a Moon free-roam, because the three we got were over too soon and a bit of a waste.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I actually like the idea of a game + expansions if done right. One of the things I hate when a new version comes out is that often it seems that there is one or more feature that goes MIA from the previous version and I actually liked that feature(s). Expansions add to the base game so you would not get the missing features.

I would be happy to pay a reasonable price for an expansion that included some cars, a few tracks, some new events and a few additional features.

 

[Zelalem]

I would be happy to pay a reasonable price for an expansion that included some cars, a few tracks, some new events and a few additional features.

Splitting the online community of a game with poor AI is never a good idea.

I actually like the idea of a game + expansions if done right.

I don't like the prologue, expansions, make a game a service and milk the cow till you can give the development team a ride to the moon ideas. I also don't think expansions will ever be done right. A 50$ full AAA game is the best value a customer can get in my opinion.

Hooray for Moon! We need more Moon Missions though, or a Moon free-roam, because the three we got were over too soon and a bit of a waste.

A 24h race on the moon

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Splitting the online community of a game with poor AI is never a good idea.

And how does a few new tracks split the online community and what does AI have to do with it?

btw All games have poor AI

I don't like the prologue, expansions, make a game a service and milk the cow till you can give the development team a ride to the moon ideas. I also don't think expansions will ever be done right. A 50$ full AAA game is the best value a customer can get in my opinion.

Who said anything about prologue or making the game a service? Sounds like you are reading what you want to read rather than what is actually there.

 

[Zelalem]

And how does a few new tracks split the online community and what does AI have to do with it?

It splits the community, because some people in your online lobby will have the track and some don't.

Example:
A: Can you please change the track to hockenheimring?
Mod of the lobby: yes
B: I don't have bought the track!
Mod kicked B.

Car DLC are fine, because they don't split the online community. Why do you want expansions with features anyway? Expansions will cost money and today we are getting updates in GT and other games for free. Do you think PD would do a better job or work faster, if we would pay for those updates? Do you think they would vastly increase their staff?