- 3,547
- Theresa, Wisconsin
Yet all that money is spent promoting those GT races all over the world for the truly elite and minuscule of that 5% of sport mode racers, go figure.
PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!
- Thread starter Gareth davies
- 6,543 comments
- 447,325 views
Yet all that money is spent promoting those GT races all over the world for the truly elite and minuscule of that 5% of sport mode racers, go figure.
killerjimbag
(Banned)
- 4,018
- The Great White North
- abetterplaya
Well perhaps having a room rating like PCars 2 would fix the problem.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
The only way to explain that, is that the system doesn't know about the track at all nor braking zones. All it knows is, there was contact, and which cars gain or lose momentum, gain or lose a position or go off track. Those seem to be the only parameters the system has to work with.
The system seems to punish those 'gaining an advantage', ie gaining speed from a collision. That explains getting penalties for getting punted and for getting dive bombed / barge passed. Slight side contact, one car back out or brakes earlier, other car gets a penalty since the one backing out is losing momentum.
Any sane developer would say that it is impossible to make a working system without any knowledge of the track yet all evidence points to that's exactly what is happening.
I’ve never had a big problem with the penalty system in sport mode. Once in a while you might think the penalty was unfair but if you stick with it, typically you can get your position back by completing the race mistake free. Avoiding contact is critical in any form of racing either simulated or real.
No contact - no penalty. The system works for me.
No contact - no penalty. The system works for me.
- 1,874
- United States
Many racers though find that getting punted off track on a regular basis and spending their races "making up lost spots" as a result through no fault of their own gets a little old and would much rather spend their racing time trying to "gain positions from their starting position" if they were not punted off the track as often as not and the offenders initializing the illegal contact not being penalized by the broken penalty system but actually rewarded with the advancement of the position within the running order of the person they punted off the track.
As long as there is no harsh punishment to those who drive dirty they will continue to abuse a system that does not work as intended.
The current penalty system may work for you but there are a lot more racers that will disagree with your assessment of the penalty system than agree with you. No matter how contact free YOU drive you cannot always control or prevent another driver contacting you.
- 87,272
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Before the Christmas update I got a 7s penalty for an overtake with no contact.
The caveat to that is that there was no contact on my screen, because obviously there could have been contact on theirs - though neither car reacted as though there was, and neither left the track limits - but then if I can't see it, how am I supposed to avoid it?
I then got rammed off by a car that got no penalty.
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- 141
- Canada
Thank you for the explanation! I managed to race a couple of cleans at Race C and restored my SR to 99. It's good to have that Race C 'cleanse' option. The game, albeit in a frustrating way, is forcing the clean drivers to get even cleaner and become pro at collision avoidance. Entering turn 1 at Nurburgring this week (or any turn with drivers close behind) I often am looking at my radar and not the track. It sometimes messes up my own line but it's necessary to avoid that fast approaching blue arrow. Start turning in, see it flying toward you, swerve away from the apex. Imagine if it was like that in real life. Such fear of unfair penalties that you just yield places to dive bombers. It can be worth it because they'll invariably fall off the track ahead of you. If they don't, well they at least earned the place a little bit. After all, it's my choice to totally avoid the contact rather than fight for the place.
- 724
- Germany
- GTRP_Krypto_
Good point, but misses the object a little. The primary complain here isn't about ourselfes being not able to avoid penaltys.
Our problem is that the system isn't capable of proper judging.
Overmotivated/ to risky driving/ or just bad persons aren't punished accordingly, they keep destroying races thats the problem. If I ram somebody off with clear to late braking, I should get at least 10 secs, because thats the least my victim will lose. That would be great for example.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
In RL you fear for your life so you get out of the way if you can! And in RL these people would be removed from the track and not allowed to come back.
Race C is always generous with SR and since the SR Downs are still absent, really easy to maintain 99 SR. I've seen plenty people driving dirty today and I've dished out some revenge shots myself without getting any penalties. I did get a penalty for touching a car that had a false start right in front of me and one for a car barging through. However 1 or 2 seconds doesn't do anything at the penalty zone and one penalty is still blue SR. I've only seen one driver leave with a red A today while racing standards would imply mostly red rooms in the old system.
It makes the clean drivers stand out more. I've had awesome clean battles, switchback through the corkscrew without contact, 2 or 3 corner long overtakes side by side without a hitch. And then there are those that bump to pass or ram their way through. At least you can punt them off freely at the corkscrew and continue having a good race with the clean drivers.
- 4,871
- Kentucky
- barrett5
- BarrettMopar
- 787
- Germany
- timekiller001
Had two occasions today where people lost control out of corners and smashed into me (T-boned on a straight...) and on both occasions I was the one who got a 6 seconds penalty...
- 882
- United Kingdom
I'm beginning to think what's the point anymore and it's getting old fast. If this is PD's idea of fair and clean racing by allowing cars behind free tickets to punt you off the track, I don't want a part of it.
A sane developer would acknowledge issues with their system, take it down immediately then try and fix it to the best of their ability (most people aren't expecting perfection) or reinstate a previous version (1.52 says hi). But nope, we're stuck with an inadequate system for another month at the minimum that's issuing penalties incorrectly while falsifying clean racing by allowing punting. At that point, why have a penalty system at all?
It just seems they're unwilling to admit their mistakes. I can see Sport Mode becoming worse and worse if it remains this way.
A sane developer would acknowledge issues with their system, take it down immediately then try and fix it to the best of their ability (most people aren't expecting perfection) or reinstate a previous version (1.52 says hi). But nope, we're stuck with an inadequate system for another month at the minimum that's issuing penalties incorrectly while falsifying clean racing by allowing punting. At that point, why have a penalty system at all?
It just seems they're unwilling to admit their mistakes. I can see Sport Mode becoming worse and worse if it remains this way.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
So penalty time seems to depend on your DR entirely? I've been getting the odd 1 or 2 second bs penalty as DR.B, yet tonight I advanced to DR.A and after getting rammed off in the final section (FIA N24) I got a 7 sec penalty. Guess I need to go back to DR.B tomorrow. DR.B drivers are far cleaner anyway, A/S is all stupid moves. (Which indeed are often successful with this penalty system)
- 895
- Due West of Europe
Well I’m done with this farce until they fix it. I have been gaming online since Adam was a lad and never have I witnessed such an appalling display of loutish behaviour that this “simulator” promotes. It’s like watching the opening scene of 2001 over and over again in some sort of morbid loop.
At my level (D/S) , Sport mode is a disgrace. There is absolutely no respect at all. Such a lack of respect only exists because the platform allows it to.
It seems that if you are on the track then you are in the way and are therefore a target. Doesn’t matter if the move is for the win, midfield or at the back. Same method works for all positions. Little or no attempt at the traditional method of passing. Just plough straight forward and demolish anything in the way.
The penalties, if awarded, are insulting. How long to recover from being punted off track? A damn site longer than the paltry seconds given to the assailant.
Here’s a thought. Forget time penalties. Instead, if a time penalty would have previously been awarded, reduce the assailants vehicle effectiveness by a percentage. For every event, percentage increases. Effect would be for the duration of the race and cumulative within it. Just an idea as an alternative.
Then there is the “matching”. Laughably inconsistent. One race earlier in the day had DR ratings ranging from A to D. Another field had 16 D, 2 B , and an A. For the majority of D’s this results in any accrued driver points being effectively transferred to higher rated drivers. Unless, of course, those higher rated drivers punt each other out of the race.....
Now I understand that there is little point in all players having S/S ratings but my “new player satisfaction level” is pretty much zero at this point. Yes I can practice, learn the tracks, watch the videos. Those things just make me an educated donor of points rather than an ignorant one. Personally I don’t have time to spend on such a timesink. These days my gaming “skills” are on the wane.
That being the case I shall limit myself to the other aspects of the game. At least I won’t have the bad taste in my mouth that the current “simulator” promotes.
Done. Sorry for the wall of text.
TL;DR. GT Sport mode broken. Humanity is horrible.
At my level (D/S) , Sport mode is a disgrace. There is absolutely no respect at all. Such a lack of respect only exists because the platform allows it to.
It seems that if you are on the track then you are in the way and are therefore a target. Doesn’t matter if the move is for the win, midfield or at the back. Same method works for all positions. Little or no attempt at the traditional method of passing. Just plough straight forward and demolish anything in the way.
The penalties, if awarded, are insulting. How long to recover from being punted off track? A damn site longer than the paltry seconds given to the assailant.
Here’s a thought. Forget time penalties. Instead, if a time penalty would have previously been awarded, reduce the assailants vehicle effectiveness by a percentage. For every event, percentage increases. Effect would be for the duration of the race and cumulative within it. Just an idea as an alternative.
Then there is the “matching”. Laughably inconsistent. One race earlier in the day had DR ratings ranging from A to D. Another field had 16 D, 2 B , and an A. For the majority of D’s this results in any accrued driver points being effectively transferred to higher rated drivers. Unless, of course, those higher rated drivers punt each other out of the race.....
Now I understand that there is little point in all players having S/S ratings but my “new player satisfaction level” is pretty much zero at this point. Yes I can practice, learn the tracks, watch the videos. Those things just make me an educated donor of points rather than an ignorant one. Personally I don’t have time to spend on such a timesink. These days my gaming “skills” are on the wane.
That being the case I shall limit myself to the other aspects of the game. At least I won’t have the bad taste in my mouth that the current “simulator” promotes.
Done. Sorry for the wall of text.
TL;DR. GT Sport mode broken. Humanity is horrible.
Pcars lobbies aren’t exactly what I would call clean racing..
- 3,816
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Actually, that video highlights EXACTLY what I have been saying. That weaving griefer should have received a penalty. His car was almost perpendicular to the driving line while the white car was almost completely aligned to the driving line.
If they simply compared the orientation of the cars in a collision to the orientation of the driving line, blame can be handed out with far more accuracy.
The "AI" they are using just says "car A hit Car B in the side" that's a penalty for car A. It's always going to fail because the rule sets (if there are any) lack context.
Context is everything. For instance. If you drive a Prius on the highway at 6omph, you are a good citizen. If you drive a Prius in a shopping mall at 60 mph, you are a lunatic.
CONTEXT is necessary for any system to work and their system has no context. I don't know how they are missing this or why.
- 13
- France
Online is ruined in this game for me. I was chilling at 9800 points / S99 for weeks and was heading to B/S, hoping to see real good races
Needless to say I then lost 2500 points in 3 races mixed with B/C idiots. No penalty was my fault.
People just deliberately hit you from behind because the system will see you as gaining an advantage.
Of course you can see streams with Super Gt, Kie and others and the game looks great, races are clean. But guess what, these guys are in the top 5%
It seems the only races you can find clean racers is either C or S/A+ . The amount of scum in B is just a farce.
Needless to say I then lost 2500 points in 3 races mixed with B/C idiots. No penalty was my fault.
People just deliberately hit you from behind because the system will see you as gaining an advantage.
Of course you can see streams with Super Gt, Kie and others and the game looks great, races are clean. But guess what, these guys are in the top 5%
It seems the only races you can find clean racers is either C or S/A+ . The amount of scum in B is just a farce.
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- 216
- Scotland
- Sunshineonleith
I know how you feel. Im in B as well and for some reason it feels like the quality of the races have got worse recently. Nearly every race i take part in some one always hits into the back of me during the breaking zone, and i go flying of into the gravel or into the wall.
Rant time!
Im sorry but I'm done with the online part of this stupid ******* game!!!!!!
Just done the daily race A. On one of the laps I'm on the edge of the track going down the back straight, and there is a car beside me and the driver is turning into me, forcing me off track, and some ******* how i get given a 1 sec penalty. On the last lap during the same race, as I'm turning to take the 2nd last corner, some idiot breaks way too late and rams me out of the way, and yet i get another 1 sec ******* penalty for apparently causing a collision.
Earlier on tonight during one of the FIA races, some idiot once again breaks too late in the breaking zone, thus ramming me off track, and yet they get given no penalty. Later on during the same FIA race, some guy must have had an accident or something on the conrod straight because they were driving slowly, and as i was about to pass them at a MUCH faster speed, the **** swerves to the left to block me, and i go right into the back of him, and once again no penalty given.
And then during the final FIA race tonight, i had just made a pitstop and came out in 3rd position, and as i was going around forrest elbow, there was about half a cars width between my car and the wall, and the idiot in 4th place thought that was enough room of a gap to try and squeeze his car through. He ends up ramming the back corner of my car, making me spin and somehow i get given a 1 sec penalty for causing a collision.
Also im not sure whats happened to the B dr, S sr group recently because i used to have good clean races with people in this rank, but recently there seems to be quite a few idiotic drivers who have popped up recently.
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- 945
- Uk
- TheLeggacy
After doing a few daily races at Tsukuba I thought the penalty system was better almost fixed but not quite.
tonight I ran my usual fun lobby and found it to be a total piece of poop!!!
Penalties being dished out everywhere and usually to the wrong people. I got a penalty for forcing another car off track after being forced off track?!!!!!
so I decided to turn them off, I first turned off Flag rule penalties; no effect, penalties left right and centre. I then turned off corner cutting penalties; still no effect?? WTF? I can’t even turn them off?
tonight I ran my usual fun lobby and found it to be a total piece of poop!!!
Penalties being dished out everywhere and usually to the wrong people. I got a penalty for forcing another car off track after being forced off track?!!!!!
so I decided to turn them off, I first turned off Flag rule penalties; no effect, penalties left right and centre. I then turned off corner cutting penalties; still no effect?? WTF? I can’t even turn them off?
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- 1,810
- California, USA
- Mistah_MCA
This was in my race. In this video, we see an example where the penalty system works, and where it doesn't work.
- 2,209
- United Kingdom
- breeminator
- breeminator
The biggest fail there is in the collision physics when car 9 hits car 7, and it's like car 7 has had a rocket attached to it and ignited, it's so violently propelled forwards. I think a lot of the penalty system problems could be indirectly solved by fixing the collision physics so that people aren't so badly impacted by a slight tap. Not as much need for penalties if people aren't having as big an adverse effect on other people.
- 334
- Malaysia
- hdbdp4
The first incidence was definitely the Jag's fault, but the second incidence was mixed because one there was a crash and I slowed down wondering if the ghost would go off unexpectedly. But I took the turn too late and had to avoid the grass at the turn. Soon, I was hit by the Mégane and awarded another penalty. This is the first time I ever got genuinely mad at the penalty system.
- 2,138
- Wales
- ARC_rono_thomas
- 2,357
- UK
- TPC_Watto
So heading downhill at Bathurst with a fellow Merc firmly in my slipstream. I stick to the left side of the track in the hope to have the inside line at the tight left. At the right kink we'll be side by side so I make sure I leave plenty of room and blip the throttle to make sure I don't go wide. Surely that's doing everything right? Apparently not!
The annoying thing is two penalty systems ago I was done over by a reverse version of a penalty just like this, touching a car as I overtook it. Now I'm still being done over by being touched as I'm overtaken.....
The annoying thing is two penalty systems ago I was done over by a reverse version of a penalty just like this, touching a car as I overtook it. Now I'm still being done over by being touched as I'm overtaken.....
- 162
- France
I've done the entire week with absolutely no penalty other than some track limits violations.
The mx5-cup race is slow and the track has short run offs, so no huge mess here, plus it is easy to steer clear of trouble. I may have run this one 3 or 4 times during the week
For race B I have used the Mercedes a lot. It is very stable and I also found it easy to avoid contacts and keep my distances from aggressive players. I usually let others do the fighting for me, and wait a few cars lengths behind for the inevitable crash to happen. It rarely fails and it is a basically risk-free way to race
. Ran this one 6 or 7 times, no penalty
Race C was the best. The S2k is my favorite road car and I love the track. There was a bit of rubbing but still managed to go from 8th to 3rd, then back to 4th with clean passes every time.
My opinion :we all understood by now that the penalty system is less than perfect. We understand that if we get in any kind of contact, there is a 50% chance the penalty will go to the wrong driver.
There are some ways to be a little bit more careful, race a little less for each position, each corner, and it works out most of the time.
The race format, with short sprints is not a good incentive to see the bigger picture and it sure calls for us to try and gain as many positions as we can in as little time as possible.
I'm only ranked B in DR, but managed to get from 19k to 23k points this week.
The mx5-cup race is slow and the track has short run offs, so no huge mess here, plus it is easy to steer clear of trouble. I may have run this one 3 or 4 times during the week
For race B I have used the Mercedes a lot. It is very stable and I also found it easy to avoid contacts and keep my distances from aggressive players. I usually let others do the fighting for me, and wait a few cars lengths behind for the inevitable crash to happen. It rarely fails and it is a basically risk-free way to race
. Ran this one 6 or 7 times, no penalty Race C was the best. The S2k is my favorite road car and I love the track. There was a bit of rubbing but still managed to go from 8th to 3rd, then back to 4th with clean passes every time.
My opinion :we all understood by now that the penalty system is less than perfect. We understand that if we get in any kind of contact, there is a 50% chance the penalty will go to the wrong driver.
There are some ways to be a little bit more careful, race a little less for each position, each corner, and it works out most of the time.
The race format, with short sprints is not a good incentive to see the bigger picture and it sure calls for us to try and gain as many positions as we can in as little time as possible.
I'm only ranked B in DR, but managed to get from 19k to 23k points this week.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
You did absolutely everything right, how frustrating!
I'm trying to find the reason behind this penalty. Must be position based, since his rear left hits your nose. No speed advantage, no position gain. Position checking is back (and wrong).
Here's a penalty I got at the FIA race last night
First he wants the inside, so I take the outside. Then he changes his mind, bumps me, then out brakes himself. Nothing happens, 5 sec penalty for me. So frustrating. I dropped to SR.B in the next race which was total carnage, every car I passed intentionally rammed me into a wall and half the time I got a penalty for it. Thous shalt not pass simulator. Then I got disconnected during the pit lol.
Some more examples of the no passing simulator
Meanwhile punting someone off at the bottom or forest elbow, no penalty.
Leave room or don't leave room, doesn't matter
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