PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

I've been a less than frequent poster, for which I apologise. I prefer to read the forums rather than offer my own poor contributions to discussions.

I'm not a great driver (B rating) but on the whole I do try to be respectful to others and try to race in the 'daily' races without contact. I drive to enjoy the race, the car and the track and mainly to challenge myself to get better and faster.

However, the penalty system and the behaviour of some other drivers is making the whole thing less than fun. It outrages my sense of fair play when someone decides to deliberately ram me off the track just because they want to overtake. With the latest iteration of the penalty system someone can nudge you off the track and usually not incur any penalty. If one is given, it is so short as to be no real disadvantage.

So, I am calling for PD to create the facility to let any player block any other selected player from appearing in the same race with them.

That way, I could remove myself from the clutches of the simply nasty, the trolls, the idiots, the incompetents, the little kiddies using big brother's account, the drunks, the drug abusers, the insane, the egomaniacs and such-like who infest the game.

Now, I appreciate this may allow players to block players who they know are great drivers and thus faster than them. I would be OK with this, as anyone who might do it is doing nobody else any harm.

As things stand daily races are a mess and the penalty system remains not fit for purpose.[/QUOTE]
 
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So, I am calling for PD to create the facility to let any player block any other selected player from appearing in the same race with them.

People will have no players left to match with. /s

I think it's an idea far too open for abuse. Trolls will block any player that's faster than them even if they're clean for easier competition and that'll make matchmaking more unbalanced. It's worked to some extent in other games with large player pools although the number of people playing Sport Mode simply isn't big enough for it to be anything but a negative impact on matchmaking.
 
It continues to amaze me, many months after I made any contribution to the debate or raced in sport mode, that the most frequent complaints about the consequence of incidents is how it impacts DR or SR.
I was always more bothered by how it affected my race.
I have never been able to get excited by a higher number or lower letter in a video game. That’s outside my realm of understanding.
Winning a competitive, close race. Cleanly and fairly, with none of the “rubbin’ is racin’” nonsense. That gets the heart pumping.
The fundamental problem with the penalty system is it prevents racing. I just don’t care how it reflects on a nominal score based around a algorithm depending on the angle of a car or where they were relative to a braking zone.
I still think a zero tolerance approach with all contact penalised post race and a result based tiered structure would encourage better racing.
 
It continues to amaze me, many months after I made any contribution to the debate or raced in sport mode, that the most frequent complaints about the consequence of incidents is how it impacts DR or SR.
I was always more bothered by how it affected my race.
I have never been able to get excited by a higher number or lower letter in a video game. That’s outside my realm of understanding.
Winning a competitive, close race. Cleanly and fairly, with none of the “rubbin’ is racin’” nonsense. That gets the heart pumping.
The fundamental problem with the penalty system is it prevents racing. I just don’t care how it reflects on a nominal score based around a algorithm depending on the angle of a car or where they were relative to a braking zone.
I still think a zero tolerance approach with all contact penalised post race and a result based tiered structure would encourage better racing.

:confused:

Because if you want matchmaking to give you a race with other clean racers, at around the same pace, then SR and DR are important since that what it uses. That's why all the talk about them, not because of chasing a 'high score' or whatever :rolleyes:. You say you want a clean competitive race but I don't think you've thought through how these systems could make that happen!

I'd much rather have cleaner races to start with than have messy ones with penalties totted up at the end. Messy races would always end with race finish order determined by the (automatic) stewards, and no doubt with PD's heavy-handed approach the player with the fewest seconds of random penalties is more likely to win. Does that sound like "Winning a competitive, close race"?
 
:confused:

Because if you want matchmaking to give you a race with other clean racers, at around the same pace, then SR and DR are important since that what it uses. That's why all the talk about them, not because of chasing a 'high score' or whatever :rolleyes:. You say you want a clean competitive race but I don't think you've thought through how these systems could make that happen!

I'd much rather have cleaner races to start with than have messy ones with penalties totted up at the end. Messy races would always end with race finish order determined by the (automatic) stewards, and no doubt with PD's heavy-handed approach the player with the fewest seconds of random penalties is more likely to win. Does that sound like "Winning a competitive, close race"?
Oh I have given it plenty of thought in the past but have better things to do with my day. Feel free to check back and see the thinking behind it.
As for having to use this system because this is the system we have, well that’s a pretty circular argument.
 
People will have no players left to match with. /s

I think it's an idea far too open for abuse. Trolls will block any player that's faster than them even if they're clean for easier competition and that'll make matchmaking more unbalanced. It's worked to some extent in other games with large player pools although the number of people playing Sport Mode simply isn't big enough for it to be anything but a negative impact on matchmaking.

At the moment, I'm not playing much because I don't like being punted, and I'm sure I'm not alone. I suspect there's ALREADY an impact on the player pool. How many players would race MORE if the officiating was better?
 
I am not sure how PD constantly get this so wrong.

We have gone from almost no penalties at all, which made the game an utter disaster and unplayable.

Now penalties are back, but I got two time penalties last night from people running into the back of me and putting me into the wall. Oh well, it's still better than it was .
 
How many players would race MORE if the officiating was better?

Sure, if the officiating couldn't be abused. Allowing players to block others from future races isn't the way to go about it for the reason I mentioned.

There's many more steps to be taken first in order to allocate where consistent dirty drivers should be. Bring back SR down and use SR E ghosting (prevents punting in braking zones which the current system allows without penalisation) at all SRs until the penalty system can judge and work correctly to a satisfactory standard are my ideas.
 
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I am not sure how PD constantly get this so wrong.

We have gone from almost no penalties at all, which made the game an utter disaster and unplayable.

Now penalties are back, but I got two time penalties last night from people running into the back of me and putting me into the wall. Oh well, it's still better than it was .

Saturday night at the 'Ring in Race B, there was a 4 car incident behind me. Not 1 of them touched me (as far as I can tell) and somehow I was given a 7 second penalty. :confused::confused:
 
Oh I have given it plenty of thought in the past but have better things to do with my day. Feel free to check back and see the thinking behind it.

Me check back? To what? You made your post but don't want to discuss it... then you go on....

As for having to use this system because this is the system we have, well that’s a pretty circular argument.

Goal of clean competitive races leads to the idea of measuring players and using that to match players.

It's not a circular argument based on the system we have, since the system we have for the clean part of that is thoroughly broken. What is your objection is to the idea of fixing it?

And if you think it can't be fixed, why would you think that having every race decided by a similarly broken totting up of penalties be any better?
 
It continues to amaze me, many months after I made any contribution to the debate or raced in sport mode, that the most frequent complaints about the consequence of incidents is how it impacts DR or SR.
I was always more bothered by how it affected my race.
I have never been able to get excited by a higher number or lower letter in a video game. That’s outside my realm of understanding.
Winning a competitive, close race. Cleanly and fairly, with none of the “rubbin’ is racin’” nonsense. That gets the heart pumping.
The fundamental problem with the penalty system is it prevents racing. I just don’t care how it reflects on a nominal score based around a algorithm depending on the angle of a car or where they were relative to a braking zone.
I still think a zero tolerance approach with all contact penalised post race and a result based tiered structure would encourage better racing.

I'm fairly certain very little players get actually "excited" about their DR/SR points going up simply because they're going up. The reason for their existence isn't for meaningless scoring of your racecraft, but to pair you with like-minded racers; you seem intent on hating the system because you don't understand what its purpose is.
 
Me check back? To what? You made your post but don't want to discuss it... then you go on...

Or me :lol: ? !
You need to return to about page 57 and read the following 10 something pages ;) ...
That was way back in June 2019 with some intense discussions going on.

Oh and ... isn't it crazy that almost a third of this thread was written in the past 3 months. Says a lot, don't you guys think so ?
 
Or me :lol: ? !
You need to return to about page 57 and read the following 10 something pages ;) ...
That was way back in June 2019 with some intense discussions going on.

I got a few pages through it before it just all seemed too familiar :lol: So many ideas, all ignored by PD :(

@Dmac72 proposed a system back then which does have the key feature that SR S should be hard to get to and retain. Yet now arguing against "higher number or lower letter in a video game" being a goal worth aspiring to... just sounds like frustration, which I can well understand.
 
They should have kept that invisible. That way, it works in the background and no one knows its there and don't get excited by a letter and points going up or down.
Well in Project cars you can set the level to who is allowed in a room. S being supposedly the best drivers. We usually have about 6 to 8 friends in the room. If someone wants to drive dirty or dive bomb we make their race a living hell. Smash them around the track till they quit. Or just stop playing GT Sport until PD gets their 🤬 together. I wouldn't hold your breath.
 
Oh boy, Bathurst!

  • Right after the race begins, a player, for some reason, didn't have their foot on the throttle, caught me by surprise, and I clip their tail yet I didn't send their car off the course. This causes everyone behind me to swerve out of the way as well, some players wiping out early due to the sudden occurrence. Said player was not paused nor ghosted and corrected themselves after I made contact, so I could only wonder what they were doing. We get up to Griffins Bend, said player not slowing down until they're right next to me, then slams on the brakes, uses their car to force me wide outside and eat the wall...and I get a two second penalty. Besides their dirty move, here I was trying to figure out what they were doing at the very start of the race by not accelerating on the main straight; it's not like I intentionally hit them.
  • Same race, coming up on Skyline, and a different player ahead of me suddenly puts their brakes on very early before the esses. Catching me by surprise I do my best not to hit them and slam on my brakes/avoid them to the best of my ability, but there simply wasn't enough time and I end up smacking them hard off the course. I didn't get a penalty. So I get up to the penalty zone at the Conrod Straight and serve my two-second penalty from before, said player has caught up to me by now. After exiting The Chase, said player then reduces their speed until I catch up, brake checks me, I slam into them, lose control, get sent to last position and was complimented with another two second penalty. Cue me exiting the race. Also received a PSN message in my inbox from them containing some nice vocabulary; I guess they thought my hit was 100% intentional.
  • The Chase! Wanna get a free barge pass while not getting any penalties and taking out another player for free? Here's your chance! I've been victimized by this move at least once every other race. This corner is just a danger zone. Players who do this brake incredibly late, then hit the rear-quarter side of your car, which forces you off-course, they take your position, and you lose quite a few positions by the time you drive back on the course. And at times, I'm the one who gets the penalty! Why can these players pull this off stone-free? It's so obvious to see who's at fault!
I dig Race C this week but instances like this take all the enjoyment out of it. Players being too aggressive with overtake entitlement because they're catching up to you is bad enough, then you have things like the above that happen.
 
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They should have kept that invisible. That way, it works in the background and no one knows its there and don't get excited by a letter and points going up or down.

It's a good point, but on the other hand it's nice to have some feedback. I don't think it's fair to say people get 'excited' by SR going up, and it's fair enough that clean racers get frustrated at SR falling through no fault of their own.

PD started out with SR showing as numbers but quickly changed to a letter. The reason given was that players were obsessing over it. But really (IMO) it was done to try and hide how basic the calculations were :lol:
 
Quick question...is this better or worse than half year ago?
Must evaluate if I bother play this online anymore.

It depends on the track and time of day as always. It's better in the sense that retaliation is still free, which keeps most people in check. And those that still like to dirty block repeatedly are easily dealt with.
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Penalties still don't trigger for clean punts from behind.

You get the occasional BS penalty for side contact but it's much harder to lose SR than gain SR as long as you stay aware of your surroundings. Race when the kids are in school, stick to race C which has plenty time for recovery (and revenge :lol:)

This is a compilation of my races this morning, an ode to The Chase. Great racing.
 
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I got a few pages through it before it just all seemed too familiar :lol: So many ideas, all ignored by PD :(

@Dmac72 proposed a system back then which does have the key feature that SR S should be hard to get to and retain. Yet now arguing against "higher number or lower letter in a video game" being a goal worth aspiring to... just sounds like frustration, which I can well understand.
Wasn’t specifically mentioning you, rather replying to a post.
The SR sytem I suggested back was one based on results in clean races, with no gain possible from a race with any contact. No background algorithm. Just results based points.
Matchmaking would be against others primarily from the same level who will only have got there based on clean race results having similar qualifying times. Qualifying should be compulsory.
Ditch the ranking system and player behaviour will change.
Gamers want to be at the top of the high score list. If they can only get there with fair racing then that’s what will happen.
 
I still think a zero tolerance approach with all contact penalized post race and a result based tiered structure would encourage better racing.
100% agree.
When we had that, the racing cleaned up overnight, and, there was no more gaming the system as there was no way to give someone a penalty with out receiving the same in return.

why would you think that having every race decided by a similarly broken totting up of penalties be any better?
I think what would be best is if folks would learn to race without gathering the penalties in the first place.
Sure, mistakes happen, and sometimes you cannot avoid a wreck, and, well, you should be penalized for either/both... but being gamed by other racers just is not appealing.
 
Ok, I've now arrived at the state that I want the "no penalty" system of the last update back. The current system penalizes the culprit too rarely and the victims too often. Not to mention the cases where no penalty would've been necessary at all.
This happened to me today:

Also had incidents where the car in front of me spun out coming out of a corner and t-boned into me when I tried to get past. Usually no penalty necessary. But in those cases it was always me who got the (4 second) penalty.
 
It still baffles me that with all that computing power they just can't get this penalty system right.
Track limits or yellow flags are implemented, yet the decision making AI collision system is just broken
And the logo is two drivers shaking hands. Yeah right. I'll just punt everyone so that at least I got pens I deserve, this game turned into a de facto Wreckfest
 
The SR sytem I suggested back was one based on results in clean races, with no gain possible from a race with any contact. No background algorithm. Just results based points.
Matchmaking would be against others primarily from the same level who will only have got there based on clean race results having similar qualifying times. Qualifying should be compulsory.
Ditch the ranking system and player behaviour will change.
Gamers want to be at the top of the high score list. If they can only get there with fair racing then that’s what will happen.

So keep SR (with a different system) but replace the DR ranking with quali result? I think using quali results has been argued before, and recall that the main argument against was that it's too easy for a gamer to sandbag and get easy wins, which spoils the race for the people who have representative quali times.

In the end I don't think gamers care much about DR... DR resets don't seem to stop the worst, anyway - what they want is to win, at any cost.

I think what would be best is if folks would learn to race without gathering the penalties in the first place.
Sure, mistakes happen, and sometimes you cannot avoid a wreck, and, well, you should be penalized for either/both... but being gamed by other racers just is not appealing.

I'm not sure we even disagree on those points...? What's needed first though is systems that can segregate clean racers from the dirty, putting them in appropriate races. Accepting that it can't be done just because PD haven't made a good system, and trying to patch over it with penalties is just asking for more mess, and even fewer satisfying races.
 
So keep SR (with a different system) but replace the DR ranking with quali result? I think using quali results has been argued before, and recall that the main argument against was that it's too easy for a gamer to sandbag and get easy wins, which spoils the race for the people who have representative quali times.

In the end I don't think gamers care much about DR... DR resets don't seem to stop the worst, anyway - what they want is to win, at any cost.



I'm not sure we even disagree on those points...? What's needed first though is systems that can segregate clean racers from the dirty, putting them in appropriate races. Accepting that it can't be done just because PD haven't made a good system, and trying to patch over it with penalties is just asking for more mess, and even fewer satisfying races.
Constantly changing when, how or what penalty is awarded has been a long process of trying to fix the treatment while ignoring the illness.
Think of DR as being a level of racing, like F4,F3,F2,F1. Clean results progress you upwards. Qualifying will match you against similar players in the same category. SR is then unnecessary.
 
Interesting views here.

Maybe the best will be indeed to shut off penalty system again and remove the SR System instead. SR/99 is a joke anyway, 2 races and you gain 30 points and come back there.
So: When it has such a weak effect, why does it exist anyway? It compromises also matchmaking btw. Without the broken penalty system there is still respect on the track, because dirty apples know they will recieve the revenge, if not in actual race, then in the next race. I don't know how it was in lower splits to be honest, but DRA/A+ was quite good racing. The grid kept his order to the end of the race. Nobody lost places because of wrong penalties and there was no trouble out of the anger/ desperation this caused before.
 
Interesting views here.

Maybe the best will be indeed to shut off penalty system again and remove the SR System instead. SR/99 is a joke anyway, 2 races and you gain 30 points and come back there.
So: When it has such a weak effect, why does it exist anyway? It compromises also matchmaking btw. Without the broken penalty system there is still respect on the track, because dirty apples know they will recieve the revenge, if not in actual race, then in the next race. I don't know how it was in lower splits to be honest, but DRA/A+ was quite good racing. The grid kept his order to the end of the race. Nobody lost places because of wrong penalties and there was no trouble out of the anger/ desperation this caused before.

Yup, can agree that races in A/A+ are usually pretty clean (of course you have the Momoz here and there, but someone always spoils it). But right now it only punishes the wrong people, the victims.
 
I don't know how it was in lower splits to be honest, but DRA/A+ was quite good racing.

Part of the problem is at lower DRs (DR C, at least) or splits, it tends to be carnage. A/A+ usually have a race craft, raced a long time and gone through most changes to the system. Those below that level may not have and are falsely believed into thinking dirty moves and punting others off the track is fine since the system doesn't punish you for it.

I also notice that it isn't necessarily down to people being intentionally dirty, it's making an honest mistake with the person on the receiving end not seeing it that way and retaliates. Therefore creating a domino effect.
 
Constantly changing when, how or what penalty is awarded has been a long process of trying to fix the treatment while ignoring the illness.

Agreed.

Think of DR as being a level of racing, like F4,F3,F2,F1. Clean results progress you upwards. Qualifying will match you against similar players in the same category. SR is then unnecessary.

If the level is determined only by clean races then it's effectively an SR not a DR. Say you have 4 levels and it takes 3 consecutive clean or unclean races to change level there would be about 16 states to track. At the cleanest level there's a problem - either it takes more than one unclean race to drop down to F2, which gives the gamer an allowance for paying dirty in half or more of their races, or if any unclean race drops you down a level then clean players are at the mercy of dirty ones. In other words, to be strict it has to react too quickly and can't make allowance for a player's history.

I'm all for SR being as strict as possble at the cleanest end, but it also has to be somewhat stable - which means tracking at a finer level than races. That's why my idea rests on keeping SR as a statistical measure of incidents but with a very different calculation than PD's.
 
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