PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[GTP_TO Blue]

People are gaming the system hard at BMB. Rammers intentionally driving into me just so I can get hit with ridiculous penalties and they get nothing. Total BS.

This morning was brutal, even worse than the usual "Get to know the track Monday's".

Why brake or even turn for T1 when you can easily just slide and ram underneath the cars ahead of you. Not only do you make the corner and come out ahead, the aggrieved also receive penalties so double win for the gamers/cheats/downright dirty.

I had 2 EVO's trying to take each other out down the entire home straight, they are almost touching the pit wall! Anyway, coming towards T1 it looked like one got shoved to the pit exit/grass area, the other was still on the inside of the track, I slow as much as you can to let them battle it out, but the one that hit the grass came in almost facing backwards, took me out and 2 others, but because I got barged into another car, who hit the wall, I get the 7 second penalty. Race over for me!!!

How PD thinks this is correct is beyond me.

Yet, get into a good room, and racing is clean. Even managed a few CRB's last night, so it's not all bad, but it is far too easy for the dirties to gain an advantage.

 

[milehighmadd]

The thing I don't get about BMB is why is it clean for the first 3 laps then instant mayhem? It goes from fine dining at The Russian Tea Room to taco bell at 3am in the hood instantly.

 

[GTP_TO Blue]

The thing I don't get about BMB is why is it clean for the first 3 laps then instant mayhem? It goes from fine dining at The Russian Tea Room to taco bell at 3am in the hood instantly.

Yeah, the madness towards the end of the race is nuts, and it is like clockwork.

The races I've done and been in 7th to 10th with 2 laps to go and then ended up finishing 2nd to 5th is nuts.

You can actually start to see the craziness swelling from lap 5 onwards. 6 wide into T1, 6 wide down the back straight, sideswipes happening into and out of corners and down the straight. And I'm thinking, "Oooh, I'm gonna make up so many places here by hanging back just enough"......et Voila, instant promotion.

I just don't get the mindset, which is a good thing I guess?

 

[ROCKET JOE]

... Yet, get into a good room, and racing is clean. Even managed a few CRB's last night, so it's not all bad, ...

And that's the point exactly. It's not the penalty system that gets significantly better from one race to another, it's the players you get matched with that make for good racing.
So the foremost job is to improve the SR calculation as long as it's the main base for matchmaking.

 

[adb]

4sec for getting passed in tonight’s nations.

Pass itself was fine, fairly opportunistic but about as clean as it gets at Tsukuba; one touch at my left rear quarter and then another while getting squeezed to the edge of the track.

If it wasn’t for the penalty I wouldn’t really mind as I got him back in the next corner, but yeah a bit frustrating

 

[Moguzi]

I uninstalled GTS a couple weeks ago.

PD, Bring back 1.13!

 

[LotusEvoraGTE]

Just got out of a few godawful races; some guy interrupts my line and shoves me out of the way as he makes a daring dive out of the last turn at RBR and I get a 5 second penalty for it.

Then after that at Autopolis, I keep getting punted by this one dude in a blue Fiat and I get awarded 1 second penalties for holding position one time, then getting shoved to the side again another time.

Not much else to add except for nodding in agreement with the sentiment that the penalty system has been a joke since December.

 

[aleps45]

8 races in Blue Moon bay, 5 pole positions, only 1 wins and only 3 times in top 5.
Exept for the race I won, I always taken more penalties for player don't overtake clean. Minimum innocent contact punished with 7 sec. in a track like Blue Moon Bay is absurd.

 

[Mr616]

I uninstalled GTS a couple weeks ago.

PD, Bring back 1.13!

I still play time trails and in online lobbies with known friends which is always good fun. I've not touched dailies for months. I may just take the plunge with some FIA races but don't want to run into any penalty scandals tbh.

Sorry to hear you've uninstalled but I agree, bring back 1.13! Yes it was harsh, but it scared people into driving properly imo.

 

[fastone371]

I still play time trails and in online lobbies with known friends which is always good fun. I've not touched dailies for months. I may just take the plunge with some FIA races but don't want to run into any penalty scandals tbh.

Sorry to hear you've uninstalled but I agree, bring back 1.13! Yes it was harsh, but it scared people into driving properly imo.

Jan of 2020 marked my 1 year anniversary of not running dailys, I've put up 2 qualifying times in a daily lobby since then. I run some league series races and look for lobbies with players that I know and do time attacks. Makes it easy to only play 1 or 2 days a week that way.

 

[Dimitri]

I uninstalled GTS a couple weeks ago.

PD, Bring back 1.13!

Same here. I uninstalled GTS. It has made a complete mockery out of online races.

it’s very well possible that this is a test bed now for GT7. Fine, if a ****** penalty system, oversimplified physics and poor AI is what we’ll get in GT7, it means I made the right choice by getting a gaming PC and I can save a couple of hundred € by not buying PS5 when it becomes available.

I’m not going to buy a console just for the livery editor, which is the only thing GTS still has going for it at this point and in my experience.

No regrets about getting GTS though, it got me into sim racing, made me get a wheel and I had quite some fun with it int the past.

 

[Jagman XK8]

I did one race at BMB and that was enough. Joke, which cost me nearly 800 DR points.

However, I managed a good qual time at Autopolis and have started high on the grid each time in the Fiat 500. I'm back to DR B from mid C this week, so quite pleased.

 

[stpatty]

The thing I don't get about BMB is why is it clean for the first 3 laps then instant mayhem? It goes from fine dining at The Russian Tea Room to taco bell at 3am in the hood instantly.

The last time this combo was a daily race it was a 10 lap race rather than 8, which I think helps. For the first few laps people, generally, try to get round and the field gets fairly evenly spaced. Then once people start drafting they get closer, and people don't bump draft as much as they should because they want to take that position right there, so people spend more time alongside each other than they should. Then the fun begins.

Someone in the daily race thread made a good observation - the pack will split in two around lap 4 when the penalties start getting dished out, and it's surprising how consistently accurate that is.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Of all the BS penalties some can still get me I was having a great race, all clean (after escaping the back), no problems.
Then this guy I'm racing apparently had to quit, mid corner

His car slows down (I wasn't expecting that) The car behind me narrowly manages to avoid and I get 5 sec penalty as the quitter disappears From 5th to 8th, thanks PD.

So essentially a brake check mid corner, penalty for car behind

 

[aleps45]

Of all the BS penalties some can still get me I was having a great race, all clean (after escaping the back), no problems.
Then this guy I'm racing apparently had to quit, mid corner

His car slows down (I wasn't expecting that) The car behind me narrowly manages to avoid and I get 5 sec penalty as the quitter disappears From 5th to 8th, thanks PD.

So essentially a brake check mid corner, penalty for car behind

... sorry, but in this case I do not see a real flaw in the system, you were a bit unlucky, the car in front of you loses a little control and consequently it loses speed, but you didn't seem so close as not to be able to avoid contact, in fact the machine behind you was not involved, as I think that those who follow must be careful and in case of contact is always wrong. The bad luck was in the fact that the player quit the game and maybe the system interpreted it as an exit from the track, but I give you reason for your bad mood because many bombings from behind with the consequent exit of the victim's track are never punished.

 

[BaareCZ]

Of all the BS penalties some can still get me I was having a great race, all clean (after escaping the back), no problems.
Then this guy I'm racing apparently had to quit, mid corner

His car slows down (I wasn't expecting that) The car behind me narrowly manages to avoid and I get 5 sec penalty as the quitter disappears From 5th to 8th, thanks PD.

So essentially a brake check mid corner, penalty for car behind

... sorry, but in this case I do not see a real flaw in the system, you were a bit unlucky, the car in front of you loses a little control and consequently it loses speed, but you didn't seem so close as not to be able to avoid contact, in fact the machine behind you was not involved, as I think that those who follow must be careful and in case of contact is always wrong. The bad luck was in the fact that the player quit the game and maybe the system interpreted it as an exit from the track, but I give you reason for your bad mood because many bombings from behind with the consequent exit of the victim's track are never punished.

You don't see a flaw in the system here? The formulas don't have turn signals (or brake lights) so we can't see when someone pauses the game. The car did not lose control at all. The player obviously paused the game in the middle of a corner. So the auto pilot took over and (as it does in corners) slammed on the brakes. So the game literally brake checked Sven in the middle of a high-speed corner. And then it doesn't even recognize that the player manually disconnected and gives Sven a penalty for forcing another car off the track (or is it colliding with another car?). That seems all right to you? Because to me it doesn't.

EDIT: Kudos to the guy behind who obviously takes the Racing etiquette videos seriously. 👍

 

[Taxrik]

Starting back at daily races after a couple months hiatus and partly as I like ‘oval’ racing but just got pushed down onto the grass in turn two, spun, pinballed off some walls, and I get FIFTEEN seconds of penalties. Luckily in a mood to laugh at the severity and reason that it’s supposed to reflect the fact the car would be scattered in bits across the track I suppose?

Oh well, once more unto the breach dear friends . . .

 

[Sven Jurgens]

... sorry, but in this case I do not see a real flaw in the system, you were a bit unlucky, the car in front of you loses a little control and consequently it loses speed, but you didn't seem so close as not to be able to avoid contact, in fact the machine behind you was not involved, as I think that those who follow must be careful and in case of contact is always wrong. The bad luck was in the fact that the player quit the game and maybe the system interpreted it as an exit from the track, but I give you reason for your bad mood because many bombings from behind with the consequent exit of the victim's track are never punished.

Lol, he didn't lose control, he had a perfectly stable line through the corner. These cars don't have brake lights, no blinkers. By the time I realize he's slowing down (and I release the gas) I'm already on top of him. I was 0.2 sec behind, the car behind me 0.4 sec and was still at the outside of the corner when he sees the bump. A course correction enough to avoid mid corner at that speed would have ended in a crash, possibly taking out the car behind me. The bump didn't even effect the car in front of me. There was at most 0.6 sec in between where it becomes noticeable that the car in front is slowing down and contact. I barely had time to let go of the throttle.

Brake checking is illegal in racing for a reason, you can't react that fast. Besides that, he wasn't even driving, the game caused the 'accident' and penalized me for it. My failure to not recognize that little wobble as auto-drive engaging instead of the normal lag wobbles that happen all the time everywhere on the track with these cars. Cars literally jump 2 car widths side to side through corners at times, this looked perfectly stable in comparison.

But indeed, it is weird. Get punted off the road, no penalty triggers. I guess the speed advantage I 'gave' the car ahead wasn't enough to stop the car losing position (disappeared to last) not to trigger a penalty. Perhaps if I had boosted instead of letting go off the throttle the penalty would not have triggered

I expect BS penalties in the first 2 laps, not in lap 7 while having a great race with #3, #4 and #6.

 

[Trone_Colby]

... sorry, but in this case I do not see a real flaw in the system, you were a bit unlucky, the car in front of you loses a little control and consequently it loses speed, but you didn't seem so close as not to be able to avoid contact, in fact the machine behind you was not involved, as I think that those who follow must be careful and in case of contact is always wrong. The bad luck was in the fact that the player quit the game and maybe the system interpreted it as an exit from the track, but I give you reason for your bad mood because many bombings from behind with the consequent exit of the victim's track are never punished.

Are we watching the same gif? That was a BS penalty. That is a high speed corner. There was absolutely no way to react to that even if it wasn’t a F1 car.

 

[golfer07840]

The thing I don't get about BMB is why is it clean for the first 3 laps then instant mayhem? It goes from fine dining at The Russian Tea Room to taco bell at 3am in the hood instantly.

What's wrong with Taco Bell in the 'hood?

Asking for a friend.

 

[Tea_Leaves]

but just got pushed down onto the grass in turn two, spun, pinballed off some walls, and I get FIFTEEN seconds of penalties.

I feel your pain. Race A Tokyo last week, I was smashed into the wall at the "punting allowed" chicane, spinned, grazed the wall several times to come out with 15s of penalties. Of course, the punter gets no penalty because I was brake-checking in a braking area according to the game.

I'm finding it difficult to take this game seriously anymore especially when stuff like this flies. At times, it's like playing the real RNG simulator.

 

[aleps45]

Are we watching the same gif? That was a BS penalty. That is a high speed corner. There was absolutely no way to react to that even if it wasn’t a F1 car.

You don't see a flaw in the system here? The formulas don't have turn signals (or brake lights) so we can't see when someone pauses the game. The car did not lose control at all. The player obviously paused the game in the middle of a corner. So the auto pilot took over and (as it does in corners) slammed on the brakes. So the game literally brake checked Sven in the middle of a high-speed corner. And then it doesn't even recognize that the player manually disconnected and gives Sven a penalty for forcing another car off the track (or is it colliding with another car?). That seems all right to you? Because to me it doesn't.

EDIT: Kudos to the guy behind who obviously takes the Racing etiquette videos seriously. 👍

Lol, he didn't lose control, he had a perfectly stable line through the corner. These cars don't have brake lights, no blinkers. By the time I realize he's slowing down (and I release the gas) I'm already on top of him. I was 0.2 sec behind, the car behind me 0.4 sec and was still at the outside of the corner when he sees the bump. A course correction enough to avoid mid corner at that speed would have ended in a crash, possibly taking out the car behind me. The bump didn't even effect the car in front of me. There was at most 0.6 sec in between where it becomes noticeable that the car in front is slowing down and contact. I barely had time to let go of the throttle.

Brake checking is illegal in racing for a reason, you can't react that fast. Besides that, he wasn't even driving, the game caused the 'accident' and penalized me for it. My failure to not recognize that little wobble as auto-drive engaging instead of the normal lag wobbles that happen all the time everywhere on the track with these cars. Cars literally jump 2 car widths side to side through corners at times, this looked perfectly stable in comparison.

But indeed, it is weird. Get punted off the road, no penalty triggers. I guess the speed advantage I 'gave' the car ahead wasn't enough to stop the car losing position (disappeared to last) not to trigger a penalty. Perhaps if I had boosted instead of letting go off the throttle the penalty would not have triggered

I expect BS penalties in the first 2 laps, not in lap 7 while having a great race with #3, #4 and #6.

Are we watching the same gif? That was a BS penalty. That is a high speed corner. There was absolutely no way to react to that even if it wasn’t a F1 car.

So, it is clear that something is wrong, I did not say that it is right, I just said that compared to other examples of unjust penalties this seemed to me less unfair. In every game I expect that whoever hits an opponent from behind will take a penalty (the only problem would be the bowling pins). But not out of malice or rigidity but to teach everyone that you are not racing alone and if someone in front of us is slower for any reason, you must respect and look for clean overtaking and that will not ruin our and others' races. If I have the ability to face a corner at 200 km / h if I find myself in front of someone who is only capable of 195 km / I can pass without damage or I have to adapt to his speed and look for another place to overtake, but I can't expect the other player to disappear like magic. With this I am not accusing our friend of being incorrect, but he was just unlucky and did not have the quick reflexes to avoid an impact that in my opinion was still at the limit to be avoided. It is my opinion clearly, I judge from the images, I am not the protagonist of the events. From what I saw it seemed to me that the car in front had a strange movement before facing the corner which caused the slowdown and the car behind it was not so attached in the back that it did not have time to maneuver (but I can be wrong) . What is strange and which would have made me angry if I had been in his place is that in this system of penalties, contacts from behind even very strong and totally aggressive are not punished. So in conclusion in absolute vision I consider the right penalty and it should always be so, but in relation to the current system no.

 

[OxMontalvo]

In today’s episode of ‘Sigh’;



I know, could have given a little more space, but the white Lancer didn’t lose a thing, and that **** happened in front of me. And where did the extra 1 sec penalty come from? I sank to SR B now, after a few races with these kind of silly penalties. Always some douchebag that divebombs into the leading group, and often gets away with it.

 

[Trone_Colby]

In today’s episode of ‘Sigh’;



I know, could have given a little more space, but the white Lancer didn’t lose a thing, and that **** happened in front of me. And where did the extra 1 sec penalty come from? I sank to SR B now, after a few races with these kind of silly penalties. Always some douchebag that divebombs into the leading group, and often gets away with it.

That’s rough. That extra 1 second came from the first white car on your left hitting you. One of those infamous side contact penalties.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

So, it is clear that something is wrong, I did not say that it is right, I just said that compared to other examples of unjust penalties this seemed to me less unfair. In every game I expect that whoever hits an opponent from behind will take a penalty (the only problem would be the bowling pins). But not out of malice or rigidity but to teach everyone that you are not racing alone and if someone in front of us is slower for any reason, you must respect and look for clean overtaking and that will not ruin our and others' races. If I have the ability to face a corner at 200 km / h if I find myself in front of someone who is only capable of 195 km / I can pass without damage or I have to adapt to his speed and look for another place to overtake, but I can't expect the other player to disappear like magic. With this I am not accusing our friend of being incorrect, but he was just unlucky and did not have the quick reflexes to avoid an impact that in my opinion was still at the limit to be avoided. It is my opinion clearly, I judge from the images, I am not the protagonist of the events. From what I saw it seemed to me that the car in front had a strange movement before facing the corner which caused the slowdown and the car behind it was not so attached in the back that it did not have time to maneuver (but I can be wrong) . What is strange and which would have made me angry if I had been in his place is that in this system of penalties, contacts from behind even very strong and totally aggressive are not punished. So in conclusion in absolute vision I consider the right penalty and it should always be so, but in relation to the current system no.

What you are talking about is an entirely different thing. What you say applies to someone braking for a corner and going slower than you. Absolutely, it's up to you to overtake cleanly.
But that's not what is going on here. It's a high-speed corner and if people brake they do it before going into the corner, then accelerate through it.
Here,he is behind a guy that goes into the corner at the same speed as him and then in the middle of the corner hits pause. There is no indication of this apart from the car suddenly braking hard in a acceleration zone.
No one, not even a formula driver could avoid contact. And to rub in the contact that the game, not the driver was responsible for the game hands the innocent party a penalty.
PD seems so concerned with brake checking that a clear punt from behind gives no penalty to the offender, but here, when it's PD that's brake checking, it's punishable.....

 

[GTP_TO Blue]

Always some douchebag that divebombs into the leading group, and often gets away with it.

There was a good group of us in a B/S going at it, and playing fair. No side swiping, no bombing, giving room, bump drafting, until we get to lap 6, T1. A green and gold flag showed up, the only one in the race. I was in 6th or 7th coming to T1. This green and gold racing a BMW just comes through like a bowling ball. Take at least 6 cars out, penalties given left right and centre (I get 4 seconds), the most of the downed group. The perp? Absolutely zilch and makes up around 5 places due to the bowling effect and penalties they handed out. My race over, thank you.

 

[aleps45]

What you are talking about is an entirely different thing. What you say applies to someone braking for a corner and going slower than you. Absolutely, it's up to you to overtake cleanly.
But that's not what is going on here. It's a high-speed corner and if people brake they do it before going into the corner, then accelerate through it.
Here,he is behind a guy that goes into the corner at the same speed as him and then in the middle of the corner hits pause. There is no indication of this apart from the car suddenly braking hard in a acceleration zone.
No one, not even a formula driver could avoid contact. And to rub in the contact that the game, not the driver was responsible for the game hands the innocent party a penalty.
PD seems so concerned with brake checking that a clear punt from behind gives no penalty to the offender, but here, when it's PD that's brake checking, it's punishable.....

I don't want to insist too much, but the more i look at images, the more i am convinced tha the blow could have been avoided, since the car in front began to lose speed, 2.5 secons have passed before the contact,, in this time it has not tried to change its trajectory, did not touch the brakes, but only when he really had neither space nor time did he take off the gas. The speech is regardless of whether on brakes in the center corner or one leaves the race. I repeat, in my opinion it wasn't so close that i couldn't avoid contact. But i admit that is frustrating to take penalty seconds for this type of contact, because what is mach more serious are not punished.

 

[pantherjag]

For the life of me I cant understand why PD dont roll the penalty system back to pre 1.53 when they attempted to change things.

I was trawling through replays from pre 1.53 and the penalty system whilst far from perfect in most cases worked and certainly caught the blatant stuff.

More importantly in the instances it did get it wrong you understood why. Anyways I made a video showing why, in my opinion, the game needs to revert back to the penalty system pre 1.53

 

[Redneckchef]

For the life of me I cant understand why PD dont roll the penalty system back to pre 1.53 when they attempted to change things.

I was trawling through replays from pre 1.53 and the penalty system whilst far from perfect in most cases worked and certainly caught the blatant stuff.

More importantly in the instances it did get it wrong you understood why. Anyways I made a video showing why, in my opinion, the game needs to revert back to the penalty system pre 1.53

I thought you were crazy when I first read the premise for the video, but then I remembered how much it made it harder for people to get to SR S and I think that is such a key thing to remember. I got attacked by that penalty system plenty before Laguna Seca at the time, but I was still able to keep my SR in the 90s most of the time because that is how I try to drive. It kept the S level lobbies much safer than now. Nice video and really well explained.👍
I also mistakenly thought it initially said to roll it back to 1.53

 

[pantherjag]

I thought you were crazy when I first read the premise for the video, but then I remembered how much it made it harder for people to get to SR S and I think that is such a key thing to remember. I got attacked by that penalty system plenty before Laguna Seca at the time, but I was still able to keep my SR in the 90s most of the time because that is how I try to drive. It kept the S level lobbies much safer than now. Nice video and really well explained.👍
I also mistakenly thought it initially said to roll it back to 1.53

Appreciate it buddy.

Yeah the penalty system was far from perfect before 1.53 and unfortunately it could be gamed by unscrupulous drivers but it definitely functioned better than we have now plus, because SR was handled much more harshly back then drivers that were deliberately gaming the system were few and far between in 99SR lobbies and if they did get there they didnt last long.

@breeminator posted me on SR profile of a driver featured in the video that demonstrated this perfectly. Before 1.53 that driver rarely got to 99SR, 5% at best but from 1.53 that same driver was now at 99 around 90% of the time.

The change in how SR was handled is arguable a bigger issue than the penalty system itself.