I understand what you mean, but maybe you don't understand what I meant, I also continue to be a clean player even if everything around me is dirty, I don't want to be part of their game going down to their low level, but it doesn't worry me anymore my SR level because it no longer indicates anything, indeed the hope is that in the lower categories there is more cleanliness, because the good ones have all gone down there. If at the end of the races, players who have torpedoed 3/4 times the others have the blue S, in the end where is it better to stay? By now S does not mean clean and B does not mean dirty.
PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!
- Thread starter Gareth davies
- 6,543 comments
- 448,808 views
- 425
- United States
- wheelmansteve
After reasonably fun night of GR.4 at Monza, here's my take:
- Penalties: Better. Not getting dinged when tagged from behind. Still not harsh enough for race ending slammed-into-the-wall hits.
- Driver Behavior: Needs work. See also "SR".
- BoP: Total disaster. As it stands, it just creates one make events. I'm not generally a "meta car" guy- I drive what I'm comfortable in. I'm not super fast, but I can string 4 clean laps together. Last night, I was running low 1:59's in my favorites (NSX/C7/GT-R), and watching the RCZ waltz away on the straights. My own time dropped more than a full second when I switched to the RCZ, just due to the top end. (It handles like a shopping cart...) I came out of Ascari just behind an Italia, and just motored around and away. Huh?
- SR: Utterly meaningless. I was floating between A and S, and much preferred racing in A. Every time I moved up to S, the racing was actually much dirtier. I also found if I drove with any level of determination, I got SR downs; do I have to just let everyone past to get a blue S?
- For the love of all that is holy, PLEASE stop with the auto car resets in live events. You drove yourself off, you can drive yourself back on. Nothing I hate more than finishing behind a guy who spent half the race in the grass.
- 630
- United States
I knew race B Monza would be a trip. We also have Monza in FIA Saturday in SF19, from grid start...yeah I’m starting last on purpose lol.
- 88
- United States
I'm assuming there are dozens of clips just like mine...but I feel like venting. Surprisingly this is the first time an undeserved penalty actually ruined a meaningful FIA result for me. Just the most minor touch in the flat out S section. 2 sec and I gave up the position.
- 665
- Edmonton, AB
- GTP_Torontoblue
Yeah, it was Chelsea.
I used to sit on the crossbars as a kid, otherwise I wouldn't have seen a thing. And it saved me getting crushed, too. Me Dad and me then just stood in front of the same barrier when I was old enough, and trusted enough to stand.
I still missed a crap load of goals though, I just wasn't tall enough to see some goals scored at Gwladys Street end!!!
Don't forget though, they made it an all seater stadium in 1994, so Stoicfall is correct.
Glad to see a few Evertonians on here. Have to make sure we don't take each other racing
- 306
- United States
- MileHIGHmadd
It's so bad now that a no-penalty system would be significantly better. It's beyond frustrating to keep having races ruined because of receiving penalties from clowns ramming into you from behind or side sweeping. The new system drastically changes how I have to race which is total crap. I shouldn't have to drive like a Sunday Driver and be overly cautious because another player's farts will penalize me. I shouldn't have to constantly duck out of incoming traffic around a corner because any kind of touch from them, and boom, 2s penalty. The tipping point is reaching a threshold.
- 630
- United States
That happened to me as well but during the final turn. A light tap and they was like 2 seconds penalty for you.
- 92
- Bedfordshire
Great summing up and I am in total agreement.
My own take on the situation we have at present is that both DR and SR is meaningless in the 'racing' arena, purely because others have direct influence on your results and progress, or lack of it. In cycling, for example, the time trial is the event of truth, where it is you against the clock with no interference from others and your pure ability and strength determine the results you achieve. In the Tour de France this separates the men from the boys.
I was beating myself up for losing DR points and falling back into DR C until the penny dropped and I suddenly realised that I've little or no control over the situation. My starting positions demonstrate that I do have the ability to drive, albeit not up with the top boys and girls, yet the results do not reflect this and it's all down to the Mario Kart kids, who are ruining the whole experience.
Maybe one solution is to have a spot DR system based on your qualifying time. For example 01:00.00 to 01:01.00 could be DR C and
00:59.00 to 0:59.99 could be DR B
and so on.
In that way you could be matched with drivers of similar ability and would not risk having your current DR rating smashed to pieces. The cream will always float to the top, so DR A/S would have nothing to lose.
So my view is stuff DR and SR until PD find a suitable penalty system, which deters the offenders from acting as they do.
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killerjimbag
(Banned)
- 4,018
- The Great White North
- abetterplaya
Like the system they have in PCars 2. Yeah it works great. Maybe PD should have bought them instead of Codemasters.
- 662
- New Jersey
I'm glad I'm not the only one who found the Puegot to be a big much, in terms of being faster than a Ferrari (Really??) and yet it handles terribly. I hate the car and unfortunately, Monza has turned into a 1 make.
Also, I agree, SR S means nothing these days.
- 5
- United States
I feel that the legacy of GT Sport is punting others off and less of offline modes (earning cars after winning races, getting to know the vehicles, upgrading them, etc, there's a lot of more), I just feel that there's a formula greatly missing, perhaps the formula of GT1 thru GT4 is what's needed, though these are my suggestions. While we do watch the top players complete, in my opinion it is the casual player base that supports the game in the end, that's how I view it.
I do agree that there are some cars that exceed in areas in others, that I mostly see cars that are the same, it's their choice for sure, but diversity sure makes a race more colorful. Whenever I enter sport mode, enter race b (depending on the wks gr.3, gr.4), there's usually some players that just punt me off the track whenever I get their position and/or they want my position this mostly happens all the time, if I get lucky I'll win but only when other players aren't dirty and after doing consecutive time trials to get close to the fastest laps possible. When I do win, it feels hallow, meaning after I win, I just turn off the console, I feel that it is good as it gets, it's quite strange/ kind of like in the next race, will be sour again due dirty players.
This is another suggestions, I feel that they should work more on the netcode, improve on it more and a penalty threshold (punting others of the track three times in three races will result a temporary time out for a week, it'll clear out in the next week race. I feel that they are players that aren't willing to change their play style, I feel that is will prompt them to change, it is definitely not perfect for sure, it may not even work at all, but I feel there must be something that deters them from doing dirty tactics. Maybe on a lighter note, when the dirty players punt the clean players, the screen turns to back/white, the car immediately stops/ doesn't respond, plays the song Yello - Oh Yeah and in huge initials DNF. I would so like to see that.
Even there are some great ideas I see in the forums, I sometimes feel that the Polyphony Digital maybe have the Not Invented Here mentality:
Though I could be entirely wrong about Polyphony Digital having this mentality, it's a good listen. In this forum, page 125 #3735 and page 126 #3773, Sven made a great point, which is why I brought up the NIH.
(This is just a joke)
But I remember when I was watching Z28's youtube stream and made the term CNF (Clean and Fun). I was thinking of the initials of CNF, but then I remember when the players punt me off, they usually DNF (some do, not all of them), now I know that meaning of DNF, what it means to me is (Darkside and Fun), the opposite of Clean and Fun, it's payday time like the candy bar Payday (revenge served on a candy bar.) Perhaps a Payday livery is needed, those who use this livery punt back the dirty player after being punted by them in the first place. I pretend that this all part of the game, demoralize their dirty players dirty tactics, knock them off so much that they even can't reach the others, a sacrifice to be sure, (that they are way over their heads when attacking me, that they should think twice on doing someone who might think similarly.) I only a few times give into the Darkside and punt them off after punting me off the track, they are usually on tilt/shock when I hit them back, on the next race they don't usually come back. When the dirty players DNF, they are consumed to the Shadowrealm (a Super GT youtube reference) in my book. Darkside and Fun (DNF) and the Shadowrealm, it all makes sense to me now, just joking.
I do agree that there are some cars that exceed in areas in others, that I mostly see cars that are the same, it's their choice for sure, but diversity sure makes a race more colorful. Whenever I enter sport mode, enter race b (depending on the wks gr.3, gr.4), there's usually some players that just punt me off the track whenever I get their position and/or they want my position this mostly happens all the time, if I get lucky I'll win but only when other players aren't dirty and after doing consecutive time trials to get close to the fastest laps possible. When I do win, it feels hallow, meaning after I win, I just turn off the console, I feel that it is good as it gets, it's quite strange/ kind of like in the next race, will be sour again due dirty players.
This is another suggestions, I feel that they should work more on the netcode, improve on it more and a penalty threshold (punting others of the track three times in three races will result a temporary time out for a week, it'll clear out in the next week race. I feel that they are players that aren't willing to change their play style, I feel that is will prompt them to change, it is definitely not perfect for sure, it may not even work at all, but I feel there must be something that deters them from doing dirty tactics. Maybe on a lighter note, when the dirty players punt the clean players, the screen turns to back/white, the car immediately stops/ doesn't respond, plays the song Yello - Oh Yeah and in huge initials DNF. I would so like to see that.
Even there are some great ideas I see in the forums, I sometimes feel that the Polyphony Digital maybe have the Not Invented Here mentality:
Though I could be entirely wrong about Polyphony Digital having this mentality, it's a good listen. In this forum, page 125 #3735 and page 126 #3773, Sven made a great point, which is why I brought up the NIH.
(This is just a joke)
But I remember when I was watching Z28's youtube stream and made the term CNF (Clean and Fun). I was thinking of the initials of CNF, but then I remember when the players punt me off, they usually DNF (some do, not all of them), now I know that meaning of DNF, what it means to me is (Darkside and Fun), the opposite of Clean and Fun, it's payday time like the candy bar Payday (revenge served on a candy bar.) Perhaps a Payday livery is needed, those who use this livery punt back the dirty player after being punted by them in the first place. I pretend that this all part of the game, demoralize their dirty players dirty tactics, knock them off so much that they even can't reach the others, a sacrifice to be sure, (that they are way over their heads when attacking me, that they should think twice on doing someone who might think similarly.) I only a few times give into the Darkside and punt them off after punting me off the track, they are usually on tilt/shock when I hit them back, on the next race they don't usually come back. When the dirty players DNF, they are consumed to the Shadowrealm (a Super GT youtube reference) in my book. Darkside and Fun (DNF) and the Shadowrealm, it all makes sense to me now, just joking.
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- 425
- United States
- wheelmansteve
Ok, I tried. Really, I did. I've run a LOT of Gr.4 at Monza over the past couple of days, and I give up. I LOVE MONZA! I can get a great rhythm going, and run really consistent laps, and I love coming up under the bridge and nailing Ascari. (Brake hard, just brush all three curbs- brrp, brrrrrrp,brrp, then hammer it...) I really hate the RCZ. It's a buzzy little cheesebox, and my wife's Malibu handles better. I actually got close to my RCZ time in the Veyron, which I sort of like, in a guilty pleasure kind of way. Tonight, I ran Q laps in every other car I've been quick in- Mustang, Vantage, RC-F, Megane Trophy, 86, and the GT-R. I can lap every one of them reliably in the mid 1:59's, but I'm at 1:58:035 in the Puglymobile. OK. If that's how it has to be, I'll race it. Hah. Nice try. Three runs tonight, one in the RCZ, one in the Veyron (French for "Hammer"?) and once more in the RCZ. Gridded P3, P2, and P3 again. Punted repeatedly in all three events. And...done. If taking a win with penalties is how the game is played, I'm playing the wrong game.
- 2,219
- Tennessee
- NoStopN
There is no shame in qualifying in a fast, inconsistent car to get a great qualifying spot. If the drivers behind you can't pass, then you get a great finish.
- 5,670
- Ulricehamn
- 425
- United States
- wheelmansteve
- 2,219
- Tennessee
- NoStopN
And this is why GT is getting a reputation & some people are swearing it off. Not a large percentage, but a few. Plus, most of us are expecting PD to use the current Sport as a test bed for the next GT game's penalty system. If it's as bad as we have in Sport now, I'll save my money.
- 306
- United States
- MileHIGHmadd
People are gaming the system hard at BMB. Rammers intentionally driving into me just so I can get hit with ridiculous penalties and they get nothing. Total BS.
- 151
- United Kingdom
I’ve played GT Sport since day one but the penalty system is nothing more than a joke. I’ve played the SPA daily twice I’m the last 24 hours - twice I’ve led start to finish - twice at the last chicane 2nd place has just driven into me punching off track into the wall and twice I’ve picked up a 7 second penalty and finished second or third.
Polyphony can’t fix the penalty system - why - the PS4 doesn’t have the hardware to run the penalty code as well as run a fast paced race with 20 drivers on track - they would need to rewrite the whole game engine - yes that all new state of the art game engine written over 4 years to maximize the PS4 power - doesn’t actually seem to be all new - just an update to the GT6 engine but I’m no expert
I wish Polyphony would come out and explain how the game has ended up like this as it doesn’t work if you try to play fair but actively rewards cheats
Polyphony can’t fix the penalty system - why - the PS4 doesn’t have the hardware to run the penalty code as well as run a fast paced race with 20 drivers on track - they would need to rewrite the whole game engine - yes that all new state of the art game engine written over 4 years to maximize the PS4 power - doesn’t actually seem to be all new - just an update to the GT6 engine but I’m no expert
I wish Polyphony would come out and explain how the game has ended up like this as it doesn’t work if you try to play fair but actively rewards cheats
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- 563
- France
- ElGringoFuerte
you mean he was following you all the way down to the very last corner of the race? did he even attempt to overtake you before?
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- 151
- United Kingdom
No I was on average 4 seconds ahead throughout the race, I’d slowed as tyres were falling apart but as I braked for the final chicane was 1.3 seconds ahead - he just drove into me, he made no attempt to brake, hit me and smashed me into the wall. Remember from track to wall is a long way so shows he made no attempt to slow down.
I got 7 seconds - the game is crap
I got 7 seconds - the game is crap
- 417
- North Bohemia
Why would he attempt to overtake when he can just do that? To be honest, I'm quite surprised he got a penalty for it.
- 895
- Due West of Europe
Its’s taking too long to fix this BS.
Sony/Polyphony need to really address the situation before the current mentality becomes normal behaviour whatever penalty system is in place. A while back someone mentioned the FIA involvement and whether or not they realised what they were now sponsoring. In the absence of not being able to contact PD directly, perhaps contacting the FIA directly is the way to go? Maybe if they got enough adverse feedback they could encourage PD to get it sorted? Then again, chances are they don’t give a **** either.
Sorry about the rant, needed to vent.
Sony/Polyphony need to really address the situation before the current mentality becomes normal behaviour whatever penalty system is in place. A while back someone mentioned the FIA involvement and whether or not they realised what they were now sponsoring. In the absence of not being able to contact PD directly, perhaps contacting the FIA directly is the way to go? Maybe if they got enough adverse feedback they could encourage PD to get it sorted? Then again, chances are they don’t give a **** either.
Sorry about the rant, needed to vent.
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- 151
- United Kingdom
Points well made, I suspect the FIA were only interested in the money but it’s a point well made - would they have greater influence than the players
- 5,670
- Ulricehamn
If you want to contact FIA,and if you write with respect I think that it's a good idea, the contract email are this: press@fia.com
- 2,228
- United Kingdom
- breeminator
- breeminator
What frustrates me the most over time is all the little niggles with games that never get fixed. We still have cars getting stuck spinning in the pits in practice lobbies. We still have lobbies dying and everyone getting disconnected, including FIA lobbies. We still have rubbish N class BOPs that mean most cars are never competitive on any track. We still have no way to easily test for FIA races solo - all they have to do is one of many options, e.g. increase the range of tyre wear multipliers available in custom race, or make free run pitstop times match race pitstop times (this is the least good option as it's a pain to work out a total race time from a free run), or make it so you can start qualifying and race if you are the only person in a practice lobby (best option as you don't have AI cars spoiling laps). Some of these things should be easier to fix than the penalty system, yet they don't even fix these things.
But when I play Forza Horizon 4, it has its own set of niggles. I wish they'd just stop adding new stuff for a month and take a month to fix all the niggles that have been in there since day 1, but they never do. So I'm not singling out PD/GTS with this, it's a general frustration with all games nowadays.
- 87,575
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
- 811
- United Kingdom
Contacting the FIA I'm not sure they give a crap about a computer game, e-sports is still nowhere near real life racing.
However, just the fact that we can't even seem to get a consensus on what the penalty system should be amongst presumably quite like minded people shows that this might not be an easy problem to fix even to majority satisfaction.
Personally i think that we need a couple fundamental rules in place - these to me form the basics of racing etiquette - but i know others will disagree:
1a. No weaving / blocking / brake checks
1b. Only one change of direction is allowed in the braking zone
2a. The car behind has the responsibility to not hit the car in front
2b. You are deemed to be behind until the cars are substantially alongside
3. Once side by side both cars have an equal responsibility to avoid an accident
However, just the fact that we can't even seem to get a consensus on what the penalty system should be amongst presumably quite like minded people shows that this might not be an easy problem to fix even to majority satisfaction.
Personally i think that we need a couple fundamental rules in place - these to me form the basics of racing etiquette - but i know others will disagree:
1a. No weaving / blocking / brake checks
1b. Only one change of direction is allowed in the braking zone
2a. The car behind has the responsibility to not hit the car in front
2b. You are deemed to be behind until the cars are substantially alongside
3. Once side by side both cars have an equal responsibility to avoid an accident
- 1,046
- From the native city of Ettore Bugatti
- I-Runner
This system doesn't teach the respect for the car in front (bomb diving inside the turns ..) but generally for the others too (wild door slamming on the straight)..
I start think that this behaviour is a mirror of the real life ..
IR
- 5,670
- Ulricehamn
- 823
- Planet Earth
- silz616
It'll never be perfect.
Since launch people have complained about this. The best penalty system iteration was 1.13 but then that was zero tolerance on all contact and people complained that it "wasn't racing". That, imo is the only way to go. Contact means both cars get equal penalty, then maybe people would actually try to avoid contact completely.
Apportioning blame is not the way to go for the penalty system imo. Just look at all the differing opinions on the videos posted about "right or wrong" incidents. Every incident is unique.
I'd implement a harsh, zero tolerance system, and if you cannot help but hit people, it's on you. I've seen plenty of videos stating "I was taken out" to then see hideous driving standards by "the defendant/victim" and total lack of awareness shown, but hey, it's the other drivers fault.
Bring back 1.13!
Since launch people have complained about this. The best penalty system iteration was 1.13 but then that was zero tolerance on all contact and people complained that it "wasn't racing". That, imo is the only way to go. Contact means both cars get equal penalty, then maybe people would actually try to avoid contact completely.
Apportioning blame is not the way to go for the penalty system imo. Just look at all the differing opinions on the videos posted about "right or wrong" incidents. Every incident is unique.
I'd implement a harsh, zero tolerance system, and if you cannot help but hit people, it's on you. I've seen plenty of videos stating "I was taken out" to then see hideous driving standards by "the defendant/victim" and total lack of awareness shown, but hey, it's the other drivers fault.
Bring back 1.13!
