- 1,875
- United States
Thanks for your response and observations with the actual in game situations as you have noticed them to be.👍
PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!
- Thread starter Gareth davies
- 6,543 comments
- 448,726 views
Thanks for your response and observations with the actual in game situations as you have noticed them to be.👍
- 2,677
- UK
- Outspacer
Let's leave the time penalties aside for now, it's too contentious beyond saying that they should be the same across all DRs
If someone is SR A, then at most their DR would be limited to 50k, so I don't think this idea for capping would make a lot of difference even if they beat the SR S players. SR A wouldn't really be the target of such a scheme - it's meant to have much more effect on a DR A, SR C or lower types. It is intentional that when a dirty driver wins, those he beats should lose less, as well as him gaining less. It actually could fit quite neatly into the calculations without having to do any iterating to find the right answer.
So, yes, allow A/D drivers, no DR resets, and they would preferably be mostly matched with other similar drivers, A/C, B/D etc. Just to note, their DR shouldn't show as A on their profile - it should be limited by their SR, and only their 'hidden' DR points reveal that they are in this quadrant and affected by the modified scoring (I'll keep calling it a quadrant even though it isn't really - I mean high DR low SR mainly, but it would affect anyone whose SR is lower than their DR to some degree). Matchmaking possibly already uses the DR points rather than letter.
We've never really been able to identify the algorithms that matchmaking uses. Obviously it's extremely opaque to us, since we can't see the entire list of players it has available to it when fixing up races. Heck, we don't even know how many players are entering for a typical race slot, not to anything more that a very rough estimate. My hypothesis was (and still is) that they coded at least a couple of different methods: one for 'busy' times which gives races more closely matched on DR, and one for 'quiet' times which produces chase-the-rabbit races. My hunch is that we are now nearly always using the 'quiet' time algorithm, and that they set the threshold between 'busy' and 'quiet' at too high a number of players. The 'busy' time algo probably works something like I described a few posts ago with SR buckets and sorting by DR, but the 'quiet' one is more of a mystery.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Let's leave the time penalties aside for now, it's too contentious beyond saying that they should be the same across all DRs
If someone is SR A, then at most their DR would be limited to 50k, so I don't think this idea for capping would make a lot of difference even if they beat the SR S players. SR A wouldn't really be the target of such a scheme - it's meant to have much more effect on a DR A, SR C or lower types. It is intentional that when a dirty driver wins, those he beats should lose less, as well as him gaining less. It actually could fit quite neatly into the calculations without having to do any iterating to find the right answer.
So, yes, allow A/D drivers, no DR resets, and they would preferably be mostly matched with other similar drivers, A/C, B/D etc. Just to note, their DR shouldn't show as A on their profile - it should be limited by their SR, and only their 'hidden' DR points reveal that they are in this quadrant and affected by the modified scoring (I'll keep calling it a quadrant even though it isn't really - I mean high DR low SR mainly, but it would affect anyone whose SR is lower than their DR to some degree). Matchmaking possibly already uses the DR points rather than letter.
We've never really been able to identify the algorithms that matchmaking uses. Obviously it's extremely opaque to us, since we can't see the entire list of players it has available to it when fixing up races. Heck, we don't even know how many players are entering for a typical race slot, not to anything more that a very rough estimate. My hypothesis was (and still is) that they coded at least a couple of different methods: one for 'busy' times which gives races more closely matched on DR, and one for 'quiet' times which produces chase-the-rabbit races. My hunch is that we are now nearly always using the 'quiet' time algorithm, and that they set the threshold between 'busy' and 'quiet' at too high a number of players. The 'busy' time algo probably works something like I described a few posts ago with SR buckets and sorting by DR, but the 'quiet' one is more of a mystery.
Sounds good, yet no need to hide the DR letter or pretend that it's lower. The idea that it is a grade or target to achieve and thus something to penalize drivers on by taking it away is imo the wrong one. DR should simply identify someone's pace. If you see an A/E driver, you know he didn't get it the clean way, No need to pretend it's a D/E driver.
Then sure, limit the amount you can gain. However that's already pretty much taken care off by the DR equation, but you can limit it further by deducting more points for a win from a higher SR player.
Perhaps 80 + ((DR loser - DR winner)/500) + (SR loser - SR winner).
First update SR after the race, then an A/B player winning from an B/A player say, 30k/50 wins from 20k/70 would have been 80 - 20, now deducts an extra 20 points, thus only gets 40 points instead of 60 from that player. That can work both ways without a need for any caps. If you lose from a lower SR player, then you trade less points to him. If you win from a dirty driver, you take more points. (Of course the result should be limited to 0 to 160 range)
I'm currently racing as B/C as Sarthe is apparently the new Monza today. 2 very dirty races put me down to SR.A, then a kid fell, had to quit another dirty race without any chance at gaining some SR and down to SR.B. From there I already get punted twice before reaching the start line and further down to SR.C. It's an eye opener, every car you come alongside simply bashes you into the wall, There's at least 2 players dropping to SR.E each race and people finishing with over 30 sec in penalties. I'm down to 37 SR, a blue race is almost impossible to get now (still not qualifying) and even if I get blue it's only a couple points. I'm probably a target since I'm usually the only one driving without a flashing penalty sign, until the penalty system decides that dive bomb was totally legit and I should have used my jump button.
However I finally managed a clean race bonus, up to 4th from last, still got hit a plenty however it was still worth 10 SR, back to SR.B 47! Next race clean bonus again up to 54. Race after in SR.B extremely dirty getting bashed around to 25. That's 29 points down while racing carefully lol. I got stuck in the middle, ping pong fest.
I've been taking screenshots of all my starting grids, will post em later in the daily race, see if there's any sense to make out of it.
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- 2,677
- UK
- Outspacer
I'd say OK, but I just feel certain that PD would disagree!
The DR eq doesn't take care of it when the race is a bunch of closely match players though, say all A/D. Without some capping, they would still gain/lose normal amounts of DR. I think that, at least for extreme cases, it should be that their DR barely changes (more importantly, can barely gain) in each race regardless of who they are racing against, so there's less chance of it being used to game the system.
The goal really is to make a space where fast/dirty players can race together and not bother either the cleaner players, nor the lower DR players that they currently get dumped in with after a DR reset.
There might well be a way to make the capping function work more smoothly, working on SR points rather than letter. I'm just too lazy to work it out a good one when the basic concept of a cap is enough for discussing the idea
DRcap = SR / 99 * 75k probably has flaws, but at least it's simple. If we had an improved SR system where the normal level for 'super-clean' was 90 to 95, then maybe DRcap = SR / 90 * 75k. I think the flaw might be that it wouldn't cap enough at lower SR levels, but you get the idea.So is SR B down to SR E basically all about the same and just pot luck which letter you get? Sure sounds like it!
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
I'd say OK, but I just feel certain that PD would disagree!
The DR eq doesn't take care of it when the race is a bunch of closely match players though, say all A/D. Without some capping, they would still gain/lose normal amounts of DR. I think that, at least for extreme cases, it should be that their DR barely changes (more importantly, can barely gain) in each race regardless of who they are racing against, so there's less chance of it being used to game the system.
The goal really is to make a space where fast/dirty players can race together and not bother either the cleaner players, nor the lower DR players that they currently get dumped in with after a DR reset.
There might well be a way to make the capping function work more smoothly, working on SR points rather than letter. I'm just too lazy to work it out a good one when the basic concept of a cap is enough for discussing the idea
So is SR B down to SR E basically all about the same and just pot luck which letter you get? Sure sounds like it!
See if you can make any sense out of it
On a positive note, the SR system is sort of working as it was definitely cleaner at SR.S than at SR.C. However the fault detection fails more than any SR 'budget' allows on this 2 lap Sarthe race, hence no matter what I did, at the end of the night I reached SR.E.
Of course that was all racing without qualifying, I'm the first unqualified DR.B in all those starting grids. Since my average finishing position was 5th, that meant that I would pass at least 2 dirty drivers per race. From SR.B down they don't try to hide the dirt anymore and simply slam into you at any opportunity, leaving the race with an SR.E rating and high penalty time.
Fault detection really needs to improve. Anyway tonight I'll find out how long it will take to go from SR.E back to SR.S on a 9 lap daily C. Bathurst on a Sunday without qualifying probably is another recipe for disaster, yet I'll stick to my 'strategy' and see where it leads.
- 1,875
- United States
No, we will not waste my any more of my time as my standpoint is clear and although my opinion is unchanged.
The first 11 races average about 31 seconds in the time difference from first to last.
Just doing the overall average for the same 11 races throwing the fastest rabbit the P1 finisher and the slowest turtle the last place finisher with a time posted out of the numbers we still end up with a average difference of 22 seconds.
Still pretty extreme for a 2 lap event.
It is going to take a lot more than a tweak or two to fix that and in all reality not one of those grids were matched within a reasonable or respectable level that should be accepted as such or even be considered as being adequate.!
Using those same 11 races, 9 of those races were spread across 3 DR ranks while the other 2 were spread across 4 DR rankings.
Again those same 11 races 6 of those races were of the same SR ranking, 4 races were over 2 SR ranking while only 1 race was at a worst of 3 SR ranks.
Regardless it shows there are issues to be repaired someway or some how in the daily races. It also shows in these cases anyway that the DR A class although being an occasional rabbit is not affected very often.
I would like to see more figures like this where the lobbies were mostly SR S and involved more upper level players as well.
Interesting info.
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- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
- 2,677
- UK
- Outspacer
See if you can make any sense out of it
On a positive note, the SR system is sort of working as it was definitely cleaner at SR.S than at SR.C. However the fault detection fails more than any SR 'budget' allows on this 2 lap Sarthe race, hence no matter what I did, at the end of the night I reached SR.E.
Of course that was all racing without qualifying, I'm the first unqualified DR.B in all those starting grids. Since my average finishing position was 5th, that meant that I would pass at least 2 dirty drivers per race. From SR.B down they don't try to hide the dirt anymore and simply slam into you at any opportunity, leaving the race with an SR.E rating and high penalty time.
Fault detection really needs to improve. Anyway tonight I'll find out how long it will take to go from SR.E back to SR.S on a 9 lap daily C. Bathurst on a Sunday without qualifying probably is another recipe for disaster, yet I'll stick to my 'strategy' and see where it leads.
Sense.... not a lot! Not much new, anyway. Seems to be the usual wide spreads of DR, mostly quite tight on SR - I'm guessing that when there's a mix of say SR Bs and Cs, its the low Bs and the high Cs.
The first race has a couple of DR D, SR S in it which might be something interesting - possibly matchmaking degrades or limits people's SR based on their DR in some cases.
I just wish we could know how many people matchmaking had in its pool when it made these races. Were some of those when we'd expect it to have the most players to work with? It only really makes sense if there were very few people to match, and it could only put together half a dozen races or so. Otherwise it seems it's choosing to do this when maybe it doesn't need to.
With SR being so useless currently, it probably wouldn't matter if it simply cut into two groups - A and above, and the rest - and got closer grids by DR that way.
- 3,555
- Theresa, Wisconsin
We really do agree on a hell of a lot more than we do disagree on. So my question here to you (and everyone else reading this) is this a game or and online sim racer? ?[/QUOTE
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- 1,875
- United States
That presents a problem that we as users and trying to understand the system and how or why it may do what it does will never realistically be able to determine,
We actually need to know how many total racers were in the queue for a time slot waiting to be matched for say a daily race C.
We need to know out of those racers actually how many race lobbies were created.
We need to know what the SR ranking and ranking points are for each racer.
We need to know what the DR ranking and ranking points are for each racer.
We need to know the listed Q time of racer for each lobby from first to last.
We need to know the total elapsed race time to finish for each racer in each lobby as well
Then we need a complete list that would break down the placement of the racers that were available in each and every lobby.
Unfortunately we do not have access to this depth of information and without it will be left to wonder, guess or speculate as to why the matchmaking sets lobbies as it does to a degree.
If we had this information then perhaps the intricacies and how the system was making the placements ir makes and the whole matching system in the game would be much more transparent and understandable.
But I am afraid we will remain in a position of needing to speculate or guess as to the actual workings of the games matching system.
- 2,677
- UK
- Outspacer
The one thing we might say is - if it abandoned matching on SR completely - that DR (or Q time) could be matched as closely as SR tends to be now.
America is the smallest region, so any problems of low player count are going to be worst there. It might be about 1/6 of the global GTS population as a whole (<1million / >5million), and we'll just have to assume that the same proportion is about right for the active players. So...
Daily players is ~40000. Divide by 6 for America: 6666. Let's say race C is what half of those focus on: 3333. Then there's people who play one or two races, and people who play all night, but at any rate that 3333 gets divided again due to playing at different times of day. If we say most of them are playing in the evening, 6pm to 12pm, do a couple of races each, and we ignore time zones, we're down to maybe 500 per race slot. My gut feeling is that's optimistic (mostly re. people playing at those times). Go pessimistic, and it might be half that - at that point, there's only a dozen races each time, and if it matches SR within 10 points that means it can't get to match on DR (or anything else), hardly at all. Away from peak times it's almost certain to get down to that number or less.
EU is probably triple those numbers, very roughly.
So we don't have absolutely no idea of how many might be in the queue. It's just an ballpark estimation, but should be right within a factor of 2.
I guess there are some who do FIA races - so count as having played sport mode - but don't do the dailes at all or rarely However, there's no clear pattern on the daily active players graph of dips on days when there aren't FIA races.
How SR and DR are distributed amongst active players is not known to any degree. Stats are for those who've done 5 or more races, i.e. not DR E, but most of those aren't playing sport mode any more. It might be a fair guess to say that there's a peak number of players in DR B with it tailing off either side. SR, since it's almost random these days, might be more even through the ranks but still a bell curve (around SR B, most likely).
Q time probably has a distribution similar to DR - a peak about 2 to 3 secs slower than the top ten, tailing off either side... just with a much longer tail on the slower side!
It is possible to say statistical things without knowing about each and every racer - the statistical distributions would be enough. But we don't know them very well either.
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- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
My race grids from yesterday
Times and my SR for those race entries:
17:30 SR 1
18:00 SR 31 +30
20:00 SR 47 +16
20:30 SR 47 +0
21:00 SR 61 +14
21:30 SR 74 +13
23:30 SR 75 +1
00:00 SR 75 +0
00:30 SR 86 +11
01:30 SR 85 -1
02:00 SR 99 +14
02:30 SR 99
It was all mixed DR again as much as the SR range would allow.
It looks like the maximum gain for the daily C was 14 or maybe 15 points. (never got the clean race bonus as once tapping a wall to avoid a player cancels it). So it probably was 15 points for 9 laps.
Now compare this to my Sarthe experience where it took about 20 races to fall to SR.E vs the 10 races it took to get back to SR.99 yesterday while racing exactly the same, getting roughly the same amount of penalties and bumps along the way. The rise up was also hampered by a disconnect which is the one race where I lose 1 SR.
However if the daily C would have had the same maximum points as the daily B (5 points) it would have looked something like this:
(I roughly estimate the boost of the total SR budget of 2.5x at SR.E, 2x at SR.D, 1.5* at SR.C and 1.25* at SR.B, 1x at A and S)
SR 1
SR 6 (1 -> 31 budget 15 * 2.5 = 37, got 30, thus lost 7, new budget 12 - 7 = 5)
SR 10 (31 -> 47 budget 15 * 1.5 = 22, got 16, thus lost 8, new budget 12 - 8 = 4)
SR 2 (47 -> 47 budget 15 * 1.25 = 18, lost 18 points, new budget 10 - 18 = -8)
SR 10 (47 -> 61 budget 18, got 14, thus lost 4, new budget 12 - 4 = 8)
SR 19 (61 -> 74 budget 15, got 13, thus lost 1 new budget 10 - 1 = 9)
SR 15 (74 -> 75 budget 15, got 1, thus lost 14, new budget 10 - 14 = -4)
SR 10 (75 -> 75 budget15, got 0, thus lost 15, new budget 10 - 15 = -5)
SR 21 (75 -> 86 budget 15, got 11, thus lost 4, new budget 10 - 4 = 11)
SR 12 (86 -> 85 budget 15, got -1, thus lost 16, new budget 7 - 16 = -9)
SR 21 (85 -> 99 budget 15, got 14, thus lost 1, new budget 10 - 1 = 9)
So yeah, I would have still have barely been SR.C!
With my earlier proposal to standardize the daily C budget to 8 I would have ended a bit higher yet still in the lower SR ranges.
Without proper fault detection it would be very hard to get back up! There were 2 penalties I could have avoided by making sure I would not get boxed in yet the rest were all either getting hit or tapping an unavoidable accident.
Times and my SR for those race entries:
17:30 SR 1
18:00 SR 31 +30
20:00 SR 47 +16
20:30 SR 47 +0
21:00 SR 61 +14
21:30 SR 74 +13
23:30 SR 75 +1
00:00 SR 75 +0
00:30 SR 86 +11
01:30 SR 85 -1
02:00 SR 99 +14
02:30 SR 99
It was all mixed DR again as much as the SR range would allow.
It looks like the maximum gain for the daily C was 14 or maybe 15 points. (never got the clean race bonus as once tapping a wall to avoid a player cancels it). So it probably was 15 points for 9 laps.
Now compare this to my Sarthe experience where it took about 20 races to fall to SR.E vs the 10 races it took to get back to SR.99 yesterday while racing exactly the same, getting roughly the same amount of penalties and bumps along the way. The rise up was also hampered by a disconnect which is the one race where I lose 1 SR.
However if the daily C would have had the same maximum points as the daily B (5 points) it would have looked something like this:
(I roughly estimate the boost of the total SR budget of 2.5x at SR.E, 2x at SR.D, 1.5* at SR.C and 1.25* at SR.B, 1x at A and S)
SR 1
SR 6 (1 -> 31 budget 15 * 2.5 = 37, got 30, thus lost 7, new budget 12 - 7 = 5)
SR 10 (31 -> 47 budget 15 * 1.5 = 22, got 16, thus lost 8, new budget 12 - 8 = 4)
SR 2 (47 -> 47 budget 15 * 1.25 = 18, lost 18 points, new budget 10 - 18 = -8)
SR 10 (47 -> 61 budget 18, got 14, thus lost 4, new budget 12 - 4 = 8)
SR 19 (61 -> 74 budget 15, got 13, thus lost 1 new budget 10 - 1 = 9)
SR 15 (74 -> 75 budget 15, got 1, thus lost 14, new budget 10 - 14 = -4)
SR 10 (75 -> 75 budget15, got 0, thus lost 15, new budget 10 - 15 = -5)
SR 21 (75 -> 86 budget 15, got 11, thus lost 4, new budget 10 - 4 = 11)
SR 12 (86 -> 85 budget 15, got -1, thus lost 16, new budget 7 - 16 = -9)
SR 21 (85 -> 99 budget 15, got 14, thus lost 1, new budget 10 - 1 = 9)
So yeah, I would have still have barely been SR.C!
With my earlier proposal to standardize the daily C budget to 8 I would have ended a bit higher yet still in the lower SR ranges.
Without proper fault detection it would be very hard to get back up! There were 2 penalties I could have avoided by making sure I would not get boxed in yet the rest were all either getting hit or tapping an unavoidable accident.
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- 2,677
- UK
- Outspacer
Well done
Considering you don't qualify and put yourself in amongst it all, that is way too fast to get from E to SR 99.
Well, c'mon, there's no way reducing the +SR budget works without sanitising the -SRs as well
Fault determination should have nothing to do with SR, IMO, and -10 SR for a minor contact is way too much for SR to remain a statistic. Ideally, since you were having roughly the same frequency of contacts at both Sarthe and here, your SR should've been fairly stable at some level (let's just say SR B for sake of argument), give or take a bit.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Well done
Considering you don't qualify and put yourself in amongst it all, that is way too fast to get from E to SR 99.
Well, c'mon, there's no way reducing the +SR budget works without sanitising the -SRs as well
Thanks and indeed, there needs to be some middle ground instead of these 2 extremes. Actually it took quite long as with a 15 lapper on Brand's as the daily C you theoretically can go from 1 to 99 in 2 or 3 races. Actually only 1 race as JasonGuersey's site has reported maximum SR gains of over 100, 124 is the maximum gain recorded for a GR.4 Tsukaba race. If you're SR B or C it's faster to drop to SR.E first, then do a clean race staying away from everyone to get the maximum boost back up! Perhaps it's even x3 or more for the budget at SR.E to get to 124.
I thought the -SRs would be lower at low DR and SR, yet I guess it's simply the huge budget increase that drown out the penalties. I still got a 1 sec penalty in my second race as DR.D for getting rear ended, and the -SRs I calculated seem pretty much the same from SR.E to SR.S
These are the penalties I got for the corresponding races
17:30 +30 SR 1 penalty hit stalling ghost 2 sec
18:00 +16 SR 1 penalty hit from behind 1 sec
20:00 +0 SR 1 penalty hit erratic swerve blocker 3 sec. Lot of ramming and driving through me from one driver that dropped to SR.E
20:30 +14 SR penalty free (only one) Chaos in the first two laps, somehow survived
21:00 +13 SR penalty free, Ping pong at broken start no penalty, Punted off in lap 2
21:30 + 1 SR 1 penalty from tap when boxed in at T2 4 sec, multiple bumps and had to scrape the wall a bunch of time to avoid erratic drivers.
23:30 + 0 SR 1 penalty tapped car in front when boxed in again 4 sec, plus shortcut penalty when pushed off road. More bumps in dirty first lap.
00:00 +11 SR penalty free, Survived dirty first lap
00:30 -1 SR Disconnected due to data loss NE-21088088 in final lap. 1 penalty tapped apex brake checker.
01:30 + 14 SR to 99 penalty free First lap chaos.
02:00 Stayed at 99 1 penalty hit car spinning out across the road 3 sec
Without counting all the extra bumps and the SR ups I got it's not all that useful. It's easy to 'lose' a sector on Mount Panorama as a little wall scrape will cancel it. There were definitely less contacts as my SR increased and the rooms became less chaotic. Since my gains were pretty constant, it's not all that unbalanced after all. Just a huge difference between B and C races.
- 655
- United States
- FluffaRaptor
In one of these two races i was caught up with you in the mid-field fracas after being punted 1st corner lol
Last night was the dirtiest racing ive seen in a while. Had a guy later in the night brake too hard too early at skyline in front of me. I rear ended him with no where to go but he stayed on track just fine and i held up to make sure he stayed in the lead. I come out of forrests elbow hot and he swrves me off trakc. Next lap i catch him in the same spot but he tries again and i hit the brakes. then draft up behind him and he brake checks me in the straight. Final lap i catch him again and he tries to swerve at me, misses, and i pull around him. He tries to divebomb me at the final corner but ghosts through me and loses 3 places for it....
and he had the nerve to call me out in the post race chat... reported
something about drafting overtakes really upsets some people. They must feel like it isnt fair or that you dont deserve to pass them. I think its is why BMS, Tokyo, Sarthe, and bathurst have these problems. Its funny that most of my incidents tend to happen in the straights where people cant stand to do nothing as you pass them by and they feel they need to defend or something.
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- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
In one of these two races i was caught up with you in the mid-field fracas after being punted 1st corner lol
Last night was the dirtiest racing ive seen in a while. Had a guy later in the night brake too hard too early at skyline in front of me. I rear ended him with no where to go but he stayed on track just fine and i held up to make sure he stayed in the lead. I come out of forrests elbow hot and he swrves me off trakc. Next lap i catch him in the same spot but he tries again and i hit the brakes. then draft up behind him and he brake checks me in the straight. Final lap i catch him again and he tries to swerve at me, misses, and i pull around him. He tries to divebomb me at the final corner but ghosts through me and loses 3 places for it....
and he had the nerve to call me out in the post race chat... reported
something about drafting overtakes really upsets some people. They must feel like it isnt fair or that you dont deserve to pass them. I think its is why BMS, Tokyo, Sarthe, and bathurst have these problems. Its funny that most of my incidents tend to happen in the straights where people cant stand to do nothing as you pass them by and they feel they need to defend or something.
Indeed, I swear I can hear the internal dialogue play out when I come alongside and I see them move slightly over to force me with 2 wheels on the grass then decide to back off just a little to squeeze me to the slight right.
"Another draft cheater, I want to block, I really do, but I shouldn't, maybe just once. Damn he's still coming, cheater has 2 wheels on the grass, if I just slightly push him over he might spin out, it will feel so good, but but the penalties, so unfair. Ok back off a little, no keep him there nice and tight maybe he'll slip on the grass. Damn that infernal corner is coming up, squeeze, squeeze, crap he's still there, brake brake"
Then I see them falling way back afraid I'll hit them whether from outside or inside. I've raced that track so many times I can take that fast corner right on the edge on either side without thinking twice about it, yet they don't know that and panic
Saturday Sarthe was worse though, people were lining up the shots. Wait for me to come alongside, steer away from me first to then veer into me as hard as possible.
The biggest problem I still have is when I'm patiently behind a slower driver while 2 faster drivers (than the slow driver) are breathing down my neck. It's near impossible to avoid contact when you get boxed in from behind and side and bumped forward a bit at every corner. Yet trying to pass an unstable driver that's practically bumping from wall to wall in the mountain section never ends well either.
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- 655
- United States
- FluffaRaptor
Yeah I may have been guilty of that in that race, sorry about that
I don't really know how to solve that though because I find that when I'm stuck in the same situation that the guy in front typically has earlier brake points than me and I'm constantly making evasive manuevers in braking zones which gets really hard when someone is breathing down your neck. Really raises the immediacy of the overtake.
As the guy following you in that situation, I'm trying to not only keep the guys behind me at bay but overtake two people going really slow.
Is it appropriate to go for it in that situation or just hang back and wait for the two in front to figure it out first?
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Yeah I may have been guilty of that in that race, sorry about that
I don't really know how to solve that though because I find that when I'm stuck in the same situation that the guy in front typically has earlier brake points than me and I'm constantly making evasive manuevers in braking zones which gets really hard when someone is breathing down your neck. Really raises the immediacy of the overtake.
As the guy following you in that situation, I'm trying to not only keep the guys behind me at bay but overtake two people going really slow.
Is it appropriate to go for it in that situation or just hang back and wait for the two in front to figure it out first?
I usually wait for the two in front to get separated, but indeed if there's another car behind it increases the urgency. The problem with going for it is that there might not be a gap between the two cars if you can't pass them both at once. I rather stay back instead of risking getting stuck half way and slowing everyone further down.
Although often if the car in front is too erratic I let the car behind me have a crack at it instead. That usually ends in someone getting bumped off as the car behind me doesn't have that much patience. Then I have my position back and one less car to deal with
- 2,677
- UK
- Outspacer
Ah, OK, seems that a lot of the -SR wasn't from just the time penalties then.
Well, it seems somewhat balanced in one sense - gains and losses can both be large for a single race! There may even be some change by SR level, since the 17:30 got you +30, noticably more than the rest. So it could improve if they just reduced all the +SR and -SR, but it still needs something more to really measure at the top end rather than just hit the stops at 99. The only way I can think of doing that is limiting +SR per race rather than per lap or sector, as said before, but maybe at low SR levels it works fine to keep per sector scoring. Then possibly there's a per lap scoring band between the two. I say that because it makes sense that when incidents per lap is high enough, that might be a better way to measure it.
But in terms of you being basically the same driver but being one day E, the next S, then no, it's far from balanced or accurate. Half a dozen more races and you could've had SR 200, if it wasn't for the 99 cap!!
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
After my 7 races on Suzuka last night racing from the back with only one penalty for an unavoidable spin out I would have been SR 300 at least. The point budget was so big very very few drivers managed to get a red rating while I still saw most people driving around with flashing penalty signs. One race I was the only one without a penalty yet the whole room was blue.
So yeah, only balanced in the sense that climbing back up from the depths from C to A is of a similar pace within the same track. At E the boost is far too high, while at S the budget is indeed still far too high. While the track is mostly the determining factor in what the general movement is in SR, not how you drive.
Will see how the penalty changes will effect racing on Wednesday! Making the scoring the same for all DR is a great step forward, however I'm not sure about the complete removal of penalties for rubbing. It needs to look at the result. Pushing someone off the road was already a problem that remained undetected in many cases. Also no clue yet if the SR deductions behind the scene will be altered.
- 2,677
- UK
- Outspacer
It's a very tricky problem though. We certainly don't want any easy way for someone to give others penalties - like them getting side-by-side, tapping you, then going off track deliberately.
TT92
Premium
- 1,642
- WA
- TT__777
Well it has happened. PD has changed the penalty system (again!!!!) as of today so we will see if anything actually comes of it.
https://www.gtplanet.net/penalty-system-changes-are-on-the-way-to-gt-sport-this-week/
What I think has made PD sit up and take notice is that people must be abandoning Sport Mode in droves and with dropping numbers has caused a lot of concern.
I would suggest after we have tried the new system we start a new thread about it as I am sure (absolutely positive really) that a lot of people will still be a little "miffed" by it ;-)
So we will see won't we ;-)
BTW I have just about given up on sport mode these days and have 2 really great bunches of people running private lobby racing. Racing fast, clean gentlemen is such a pleasure. Now, if I get punted off the track, I already know that someone has made a genuine mistake and that they will give me my position back. Anger levels are at ZERO these days while enjoyment and adrenaline is near 100% ;-)
https://www.gtplanet.net/penalty-system-changes-are-on-the-way-to-gt-sport-this-week/
What I think has made PD sit up and take notice is that people must be abandoning Sport Mode in droves and with dropping numbers has caused a lot of concern.
I would suggest after we have tried the new system we start a new thread about it as I am sure (absolutely positive really) that a lot of people will still be a little "miffed" by it ;-)
So we will see won't we ;-)
BTW I have just about given up on sport mode these days and have 2 really great bunches of people running private lobby racing. Racing fast, clean gentlemen is such a pleasure. Now, if I get punted off the track, I already know that someone has made a genuine mistake and that they will give me my position back. Anger levels are at ZERO these days while enjoyment and adrenaline is near 100% ;-)
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Why do you think that? KP shows it's fairly stable, a little bit up actually.
http://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?stat_preset=daily_sport_activity
The changes won't make anyone give positions back, the opposite rather with less penalties given out. Yet it should help reduce the chaos serving penalties in the race causes.
- 2,677
- UK
- Outspacer
Well if it's true that there's only going to be 2 dailies from tomorrow onwards, it appears that PD think that there aren't enough players for 3. I'm sure they've noticed the DR spreads in races, but it's a shame if they've chosen that way to 'solve' it. I don't think it will help much.
- 7,765
- Yorkshire
- ScapeGoat4U
- WhippingBoy
GT Sport online is like putting bears & lions into a room together & expecting them to get on. And, when they inevitably don't, then thinking up all kinds of fantastical ways to try & make them coexist peacefully. To quote The Offspring, "You gotta keep 'em separated". If we had duplicate clean events & dirty events, most drivers would naturally separate themselves out, & all we'd be left with is the odd troll here & there who would eventually get banned after being reported. Problem solved (mostly)...
