PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[NotaViking]

Thanks for the comments on the last video - I don't think the other car did cut the track there, but it was close.

However, in this video below, I see absolutely nothing other than a small tap and again it's 10 seconds. It's farcical. The penalty system is supposed to be fixed, but in these incidents it's worse than ever.



Before anyone says I just need to stop hitting cars - this is my alt account, as I wouldn't risk my real one at Monza (again), so I'm racing less carefully than normal. It's the size of the penalty for a tiny incident that's the issue here. I'm not saying that the contacts aren't my fault. Losing a bit of SR for these is fine.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Thanks for the comments on the last video - I don't think the other car did cut the track there, but it was close.

However, in this video below, I see absolutely nothing other than a small tap and again it's 10 seconds. It's farcical. The penalty system is supposed to be fixed, but in these incidents it's worse than ever.



Before anyone says I just need to stop hitting cars - this is my alt account, as I wouldn't risk my real one at Monza (again), so I'm racing less carefully than normal. It's the size of the penalty for a tiny incident that's the issue here. I'm not saying that the contacts aren't my fault. Losing a bit of SR for these is fine.

Definitely. These contacts should be lessened to 1 second or so, reserving 10 second penalties whwn they get off-track or spin out

 

[TT92]

Oh~ I should adapt this mindset. Why have I never thought of it this way?

It will come with age and experience ;-)

We have differed on many aspects previously but ultimately it comes down to idealism and what actually happens in the real world and ultimately how you react to it. And remember, it is only a game after all and when you turn your PS4 off life is still there.

Have a great day :-)

PS you actually dropped into a lobby I was in on Friday night. You should have hung around. I take it your Alpha_Cipher1 (IIRC) is an alternate account. BTW my PSN I race under is TT__777

 

[supervento]

5 seconds penalty , ok?

 

[Alpha Cipher]

It will come with age and experience ;-)

We have differed on many aspects previously but ultimately it comes down to idealism and what actually happens in the real world and ultimately how you react to it. And remember, it is only a game after all and when you turn your PS4 off life is still there.

Have a great day :-)

PS you actually dropped into a lobby I was in on Friday night. You should have hung around. I take it your Alpha_Cipher1 (IIRC) is an alternate account. BTW my PSN I race under is TT__777

True- different ideals and reactions will result in different "unwritten" rules for each of us that we will religiously follow, but it's a ruleset for us and us only

Alpha_Cipher1 is my main account again; I do remember seeing that PSN every now and then, but haven't played much recently in GTS, especially lobbies. I'll keep that PSN in mind and say hi the next time we meet

5 seconds penalty , ok?

Like most cases, it's certainly avoidable, but that was a bonafide divebomb. All consequent contacts were because of that guy causing a domino effect. Avoidable, but certainly undeserved 5 second penalty

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Here's my 5 second penalty from earlier

I see the dive bomb coming, avoid him, then I see a whole lot more coming in the mirror and bump the diver that runs into the car in front of me causing a chain reaction. I guess I could have turned left instead, much less traffic that way.

In a rare instance I 'survived' an accident in front of me, Miracles do happen


And finally, I managed to get through T1 without a penalty, just press the ghost button!!


Nvm, next race my ghost button malfunctions and I get punted to 16th. Later on some guy slams on the brakes way before the 150 for Ascari with predictable results. I'm bleeding just a couple SR per race, on the threshold again (90) to get into the lower ranked SR.S room for a triple star victory.... Time for a break.

 

[NotaViking]

10 seconds for this?!? I'm sorry but what the hell is going on with the penalty system at the moment.

 

[Beevster]

Ok have it your way gtplanet... Its ok to post here apparently!.. and yes the penalty system is still a piece of ****!! and I'm apparently a 10 second penalty player who should get forum topics deleted because I'm such a badass.. but the after are gold dust because that's the world we live in.. RIP enjoy the show.


+ 10 seconds


+9 seconds

We are supposed to bow down and take these penalty's like they never happened, we are supposed to act like GTPlanet has no involvement in these penalties like they never happened, Just like the forum & website never happened, I think your forgetting what made you so popular, and that's the people and the players, you give us the right to talk, and now your taking that away when we have a point.. you are playing politics with the people and it's not good. We have a right in the matter amd our voice should be heard. we are the paying public.

We want a voice and to connect with the master. PD listens to these calls, they check the forums. let the voice be heard!.. for the good of the game.

 

[Famine]

we are supposed to act like GTPlanet has no involvement in these penalties like they never happened

They're nothing to do with us because we're nothing to do with Polyphony Digital or Sony. We're an independent site and have been for 17 years.

Just like the forum & website never happened, I think your forgetting what made you so popular, and that's the people and the players, you give us the right to talk, and now your taking that away when we have a point.. you are playing politics with the people and it's not good. We have a right in the matter amd our voice should be heard. we are the paying public

What?

 

[Beevster]

Yeah laugh, that's the hight of your professionalism. I rest my case.

 

[Famine]

I rest my case.

Your case being that GTPlanet, somehow, has something to do with the penalty system in GT Sport:

we are supposed to act like GTPlanet has no involvement in these penalties like they never happened

... that somehow GTPlanet is taking away your "right to talk" (which begs the question of how you're able to post if we have done):

you give us the right to talk, and now your taking that away when we have a point

... and that, even more somehow, the fact that you've... paid... someone something means your "voice should be heard" on GTPlanet about... penalties in GT Sport?

We have a right in the matter amd our voice should be heard. we are the paying public.

Perhaps you could explain, more clearly, exactly why you think GTPlanet - an independent website not run by or paid by Polyphony Digital or Sony - has some role in GT Sport's design decisions and processes, and what that role, that we don't have, actually is?

 

[Kano Manel]

Hi all, good morning!! Sorry, I was busy with the Uni, I missed you guys (I know it was only 2 days away but I don't have social life)

Isn't racing about overtaking anymore? I can't stop the car on a whim, I can't change my line after I'm committed to the inside, I can't go more inside, I can't brake more, the car on the outside has the options. And currently the penalty system gives the outside the benefit of the doubt.

I totally agree with you, the penalty system is completely broken now.

If you contact another car, or another car contacts you, you're at the mercy of what everyone acknowledges is an inconsistent penalty system*. The only way to avoid being at the mercy of the penalty system is to avoid contact.

I totally agree with you, the penalty system is completely broken now. (basically you are both saying the same, but Famine proposes a way of racing online that many will find a bit dull and boring -just like the actual F1 of nowadays) (which is what PD wants, I reckon)

Penalty system is still a piece of ****, that's what this thread is about and it won't die until PD fixes it or finds another way to keep these types out of SR.S

Looks to me as if there were 2 different people programming the penalty system, with two different views about it, and they were in constant conflict. It is up to PD to figure it out, they are clearly not addressing this problem. But at the moment, as Famine says, avoid contact at all cost, imagine you are driving a F1 car in this silly F1 championship that we have nowadays. No contact.

5 seconds penalty , ok?

10 seconds for this?!? I'm sorry but what the hell is going on with the penalty system at the moment.

In a nutshell? is broken. It is very very sad, but lateral contact side by side is not allowed, and most forms of divebomb are allowed (unless the victim's car goes offtrack, in that case it is punished... sometimes...)

Yeah laugh, that's the hight of your professionalism. I rest my case.

What the **** are you talking about mate? What kind of substance have you ingested? You rest your case? You should rest, go to sleep.

 

[Famine]

I totally agree with you, the penalty system is completely broken now. (basically you are both saying the same, but Famine proposes a way of racing online that many will find a bit dull and boring -just like the actual F1 of nowadays) (which is what PD wants, I reckon)

But at the moment, as Famine says, avoid contact at all cost, imagine you are driving a F1 car in this silly F1 championship that we have nowadays. No contact.

Not really what I'm proposing...

If you contact another car, or another car contacts you, you're at the mercy of what everyone acknowledges is an inconsistent penalty system*. The only way to avoid being at the mercy of the penalty system is to avoid contact.

If that means ceding position, cede position. If that means not overtaking, don't overtake. If that means not putting your car in a position to take advantage of or force an error, don't put your car in a position to take advantage of an error. If that means not playing the game, don't play the game.

But that's only if SR is important to you. If your finishing position is more important, fight to retain your position, overtake, put your car in a position to take advantage of or force errors, and acknowledge that, sometimes, you're going to have contact and, sometimes, that might result in a penalty you don't think is fair.

And that's sort of how real-life racing works too. If you race according to a code of avoiding contact, you're never going to be put before the judgment call of the stewards. If you put that code to the side every now and then - to defend a place, or refusing to yield to a driver who doesn't race to that code, or just straight up for the track position advantages it brings - you may end up getting what you think is a bum call from the stewards.

 

[Kano Manel]

And that's sort of how real-life racing works too. If you race according to a code of avoiding contact, you're never going to be put before the judgment call of the stewards. If you put that code to the side every now and then - to defend a place, or refusing to yield to a driver who doesn't race to that code, or just straight up for the track position advantages it brings - you may end up getting what you think is a bum call from the stewards.

Well, what you say makes sense, I mean, we have seen Alpha's videos racing from the back of the pack and finalizing without penalty. What you propose is actually doable. Do you think that is what PD is aiming to? or do you thing there are 2 evil twins with different views programming the penalty system? (that's my theory)

 

[NotaViking]

And that's sort of how real-life racing works too. If you race according to a code of avoiding contact, you're never going to be put before the judgment call of the stewards. If you put that code to the side every now and then - to defend a place, or refusing to yield to a driver who doesn't race to that code, or just straight up for the track position advantages it brings - you may end up getting what you think is a bum call from the stewards.

For me it's not about putting aside a code, it's about making mistakes. We're not professional racing drivers, we're going to make mistakes, but we have a penalty system punishing us far more harshly for tiny incidents than in any form of motorsport I'm aware of.

You're advocating for working around a broken system or stopping playing the game. I think that's rather defeatist. Neither of those is good solution. I think the onus is on us to keep raising this issue, post videos showing clear examples of the system not working correctly and encourage PD to have another go at fixing it.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

... If that means not playing the game, don't play the game. ...

Am I the only one who did exactly that ? Anyone else ?

 

[Famine]

You're advocating for working around a broken system or stopping playing the game.

Actually, I'm not. I'm suggesting that players should either race for DR and not worry too much about SR, or drive for SR and not worry too much about SR... or stop playing the public part of the game. It is possible to race for both DR and SR, of course, but you have to acknowledge that actively pursuing one might lead to loss of the other, and that not everyone is doing the same thing you are.

GT's penalty system is no more broken than real-life stewarding is; one only has to look at pages of debate here over any penalty or punishment (or lack thereof). In real-life racing you accept that if you do anything beyond the scope of the driving standards rules - including contact with another car - you may end up being on the receiving end of a punishment you do not believe is fair. The alternative is not to race.


Part of any game is gaming the game. In Gran Turismo games, people have learned how to game the physics, the tuning and, in GT Sport, the "most effective tool available". Why not also learn how to game to penalty system?

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Why not also learn how to game to penalty system?

Seriously?

 

[Famine]

Seriously?

Why not? It's part of the game, isn't it? Just like gearbox flipping, or weird ride heights, or using the Megane Trophy because Megane Trophy, it's just a piece of code that you can work with.

I'm sure some people have worked out how to make sure other people get penalties from contact, by observing what does and doesn't (usually) generate penalties. If you also work that out, you can ensure you don't get tricked into it, surely?

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Why not? It's part of the game, isn't it? Just like gearbox flipping, or weird ride heights, or using the Megane Trophy because Megane Trophy, it's just a piece of code that you can work with.

I'm sure some people have worked out how to make sure other people get penalties from contact, by observing what does and doesn't (usually) generate penalties. If you also work that out, you can ensure you don't get tricked into it, surely?

So in the same sense, I should cut the last chicane at La Sarthe because it's a piece of code I can work with? By doing that, I can ensure that I don't get tricked by matchmaking who thinks the people who cut the chicane are faster than me?

 

[Famine]

So in the same sense, I should cut the last chicane at La Sarthe because it's a piece of code I can work with? By doing that, I can ensure that I don't get tricked by matchmaking who thinks the people who cut the chicane are faster than me?

If you like. It's not what I would do, but then I don't get to decide how you play your game.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

If you like. It's not what I would do, but then I don't get to decide how you play your game.

What the hell...

 

[Famine]

What the hell...

What's the problem exactly?

We both play the game the way we want to play it. There's millions of copies out there and, guess what, those people play them the way they want to play it too. If those people want to play it in a way we don't want to play it, that's up to them, not us. I'm not the GT Sport police. You aren't either. We don't get to say how they play it, we only get to say how we play it.

People play games according to their own rules, and if you play games in public lobbies with other people, you'll find that sometimes they have very different ideas of what those rules are - you can't expect that everyone will stick to your own personal rules. Sometimes that includes cheating, or griefing. Some games have systems in place to stop cheaters and griefers, some have ways of reporting cheaters and griefers, some don't. Either way, you put up with it (or ragequit) until they are caught by the systems, or you can report them, or you can find a new public lobby.

This isn't exactly a radical concept.


I'm not sure what it has to do with GT Sport's penalty system, except that it's a system intended to impose a specific set of rules regarding racing conduct and also stop cheaters and griefers.

 

[BLiTZ]

10 seconds for this?!? I'm sorry but what the hell is going on with the penalty system at the moment.

I had something similar yesterday there too. Coming out of the long left turn just before the hairpin a couple of the cars in front were tussling. One car briefly tapped his brakes to correct a skid and I had nowhere to go resulting in the lightest of taps for which I was gifted 10secs. I guess as I was full throttle the game figured I was ramming a slowing car on purpose.

 

[kilesa4568]

Am I the only one who did exactly that ? Anyone else ?

Not me. The last version of the penalties were broken with their intolerance for contact and they killed close racing but after running a dozen races under the new system, I like them. One 5 second penalty (risked a pass on a laggy driver...duh...) in all of them and any light contact went unpunished other than small SR drops. You soon see how much 'not so light' contact (like the above video) gets rewarded with penalties so you're forewarned.

Drivers attempting bad moves or accidents aside, it's definitely workable. You just have to give more room, even when you think they don't deserve it. Don't leave it up to the judges...

On a lot of the example videos in here, a lot of them have two sides to their story from what I've seen. Bad positioning and/or slow reactions usually. Most look like they're avoidable but Verstappen mode kicks in and they start chasing lost causes. I'd do the same with my friends list but never with someone I don't know. It's not worth the risk.

 

[Beevster]

Famine did I ever say that I blame gtplanet for the cause of a bad system, get off your high horse man and actually read between the lines for once.. I was saying that gtplanet has a 'ROLE' to play letting us voice our opinions and your trying your best to stop that, therefore you are wrong.

As for just forgetting about SR and just playing the game, really are you so shallow? you just suck up a 10-second penalty for nothing and move onto the next like it doesn't matter. You are starting to sound like a fanboy to me.

And finally, did you even watch my clips of what I was actually showing was at fault, no you didn't I can tell by your response.

And kano Manel I don't take drugs or substances, you just need to learn to keep your nose out of other peoples business really. If it doesn't concern you don't get involved. I won't take your snide comments seriously anyway you just sound pathetic.

 

[ASH32]

I'm sure some people have worked out how to make sure other people get penalties from contact, by observing what does and doesn't (usually) generate penalties. If you also work that out, you can ensure you don't get tricked into it, surely?

From what I've seen it's very hard to avoid the "best" way of gaming the penalty system. It's simply to brake in the middle of a short straight between two slow corners or not pick up the throttle on the exit of a slow corner such as a hairpin, this will almost always result in a penalty for the guy running into the back of the brake checker (sometimes as much as ten seconds) and not give anything to the person who was actually at fault or cause them any other pain.

I admit that fixing this could be very tough though, thankfully there are only a few drivers who are really desperate enough to do this.

 

[Famine]

actually read between the lines for once

Or try typing what you actually mean instead of a rambling rant that bears striking resemblance to an Abe Simpson story.

Forums generally work when people communicate their ideas clearly. This:

We are supposed to bow down and take these penalty's like they never happened, we are supposed to act like GTPlanet has no involvement in these penalties like they never happened, Just like the forum & website never happened, I think your forgetting what made you so popular, and that's the people and the players, you give us the right to talk, and now your taking that away when we have a point.. you are playing politics with the people and it's not good. We have a right in the matter amd our voice should be heard. we are the paying public.

... is not that. This is some weird smoosh of words that makes it sound like GTPlanet is responsible for the penalty system (we aren't), and that we're in some way responsible for or beholden to people who buy Gran Turismo (we aren't). And I have no earthly clue what "Just like the forum & website never happened" even means.

Oh, and if you can't communicate without using pejoratives, don't post at all.

I was saying that gtplanet has a 'ROLE' to play letting us voice our opinions and your trying your best to stop that, therefore you are wrong.

Not really. If I was trying my best to stop it, you wouldn't be able to post. I can remove (well, hide, technically) any and every post on this site with two clicks, and I can remove any and every member with two more. If I wanted to stop you from voicing your opinion, it would be almost no effort at all.

But I haven't. Not only that, I'm responding to your posts. How is that trying to stop you voicing your opinion?

As for just forgetting about SR and just playing the game, really are you so shallow? you just suck up a 10-second penalty for nothing and move onto the next like it doesn't matter.

Does it matter? What can you do about it? Rage on a forum at someone who's not in any way responsible for or involved in it?

It's literally just some software that's decided you've done something inappropriate. It doesn't care about you, and it won't remember you, so why remember it and get so cross about it? I've had loads of penalties - I can't even recall how many - but I don't care. I can't think of anything less consequential in my life as my GT Sport SR score (although several things equal how inconsequential it is). I certainly don't see the point in getting worked up about it to the point of text-yelling at disinterested strangers.

 

[sundaydriving]

It's literally just some software that's decided you've done something inappropriate. It doesn't care about you, and it won't remember you, so why remember it and get so cross about it? I've had loads of penalties - I can't even recall how many - but I don't care. I can't think of anything less consequential in my life as my GT Sport SR score (although several things equal how inconsequential it is). I certainly don't see the point in getting worked up about it to the point of text-yelling at disinterested strangers.

Indeed. Its very easy to get frustrated by the penalty system and it does help to pause for a second and frame it appropriately.

Its never going to be perfect. Its not even perfect when they get people to do it. But it could be better.

 

[sturk0167]

So in the same sense, I should cut the last chicane at La Sarthe because it's a piece of code I can work with? By doing that, I can ensure that I don't get tricked by matchmaking who thinks the people who cut the chicane are faster than me?

In 1776 the British were upset and argued that we didn't fight in formations such as theirs, a big block formation, where we meet face to face and fight out in the open. We instead hid behind trees and used landscape features for cover and concealment.

The British were defeated.