PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[Famine]

I had the lead, they were off track, technically I can drive whatever line I like...

Sure thing, but not if you care about your SR.

The two Racing Etiquette videos explain this (in amongst the "makes you look bad" stuff) quite clearly. SR isn't just about what you hit, it's about what hits you too. The second video particularly covers the concept of keeping your eyes peeled for stuff that might hit you, and being prepared to avoid it if necessary.

A guy off the track is always, always going to try to get back onto it at some point. Saying "well, I'm driving here so you can't" is all well and good, but if he does it anyway, you get hit and that might affect your SR. Better to give them room so that neither of you get hit.

 

[cleanLX]

Videos:

Awesome examples of how to race.
Defending by selecting the line you want in advance vs reacting...
Allowing other drivers with a run their due chance rather than "blocking"/reacting.
Staying far enough off the car in front to not get the 10second tap penalty...
Knowing to back odd, even with decent overlap when not on the racing line and collision is likely.

Thanks Alpha... and only 17 years old...

 

[Kano Manel]

Wouldn't have idiots with a 99 SR like this in last night's Nations race.

@Mat73 not much you can do there, perhaps avoid 1 to 1 just in case, considering 3 cars going into a corner like Hawthorn an you not having the peak of speed that you need? I mean it is indeed appalling, but if you wait behind him, he'd eventually screw up? and meanwhile you'd save a lap worth of fuel?

Generally speaking, there is some sort of moral high ground feeling floating in this thread that I don't like, good drivers should be practicing and not reporting others. Protesting takes a lot of time (edit the video, upload it, etc etc etc), time that can be invested in improving lap time (better lap time=better qualy=better race). If your lap times were better, guys, you would be probably away of problems? (@Alpha Cipher videos are a good example, even coming from last position. The evidence is there... and is also appalling).

Bad drivers are going to be bad drivers until they crash, just like in real life. Again, I'm talking in general, don't let that moral high ground distract you from your goals. You are not here to change people, to educate them, to report them and get them off the game (they are way too many, and it's way too late for that). I learnt this in real life. I do 200 miles per week, I cross with imbeciles every single day, but I don't touch the horn. Why? Because they will kill themselves eventually, or they will be stopped by police and lose their license and end in jail eventually. I give them space and let them go or just drive away if I can.

I'm starting to get this feeling that some of you guys really believe you are going to achieve something by reporting or protesting a player that was dirty. You're wasting time in this forum, precious time, you should be training. (Don't judge me, I'm at the office, that's why I'm writing). Every 5 minutes here are at least 2 laps of practice that you are not doing. If I were at home right now I would be doing laps like a madman, watching videos, learning to cut the corners better and burning rubber.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Awesome examples of how to race.
Defending by selecting the line you want in advance vs reacting...
Allowing other drivers with a run their due chance rather than "blocking"/reacting.
Staying far enough off the car in front to not get the 10second tap penalty...
Knowing to back odd, even with decent overlap when not on the racing line and collision is likely.

Thanks Alpha... and only 17 years old...

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I mean it is indeed appalling, but if you wait behind him, he'd eventually screw up? and meanwhile you'd save a lap worth of fuel?

Not to mention how much more fun it is to torment someone into an error by riding their rear bumper. I'll even move from left to right on them since the audio is doing a left right pan Doppler effect in their ears, making it sound like I'm sizing up a dive bomb. Or I'll gear down one gear too low during the braking zone just to make my car loudly bounce off the limiter while I'm in their ear.

 

[Kano Manel]

Not to mention how much more fun it is to torment someone into an error by riding their rear bumper. I'll even move from left to right on them since the audio is doing a left right pan Doppler effect in their ears, making it sound like I'm sizing up a dive bomb. Or I'll gear down one gear too low during the braking zone just to make my car loudly bounce off the limiter while I'm in their ear.

That is psychological warfare right there, mate. Thumbs up!

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Not to mention how much more fun it is to torment someone into an error by riding their rear bumper. I'll even move from left to right on them since the audio is doing a left right pan Doppler effect in their ears, making it sound like I'm sizing up a dive bomb. Or I'll gear down one gear too low during the braking zone just to make my car loudly bounce off the limiter while I'm in their ear.

I sense a comrade

 

[Oswald07]

Another recurring issue is not respecting barge passers. I know that sounds backwards, but currently the system does not penalize barge passing (essentially dive bombers who stay to the inside line and avoid contact). Most of the incidences people are complaining about tend to occur from people turning in on barge passers and presuming they were dive bombed because of the illegal barge pass when it is actually them causing the collision.

Since the system doesn't penalize barge passing, turning in on the inside line as someone fills the gap will always result in a penalty. On Gareth's footage you can clearly see people behind him on the radar tapered off to the inside... clearly those people are going to stick their nose on the inside and try to barge pass. When I see that behavior from the car behind me I know that cutting to the apex is going to give me a penalty, so I don't do it.

I'll concede that's me conforming to a broken penalty system but at no point am I ever surprised by the penalties I receive.

I find that people really over bake into some corners while I try to trail brake to the apex and then get on the gas. If I stay behind them I rear end if I do my normal brake I’m half ahead of them at the apex and then I’m through. The only question do they turn into me and does someone get a penalty. I got burned on this and I most likely deserve it on Nurburgring on that big looping hairpin. But those heavy braking zones are tempting passing areas. And I repeatedly got knocked out of pole in the fiat corner. So I was trying to fight back through much slower drivers.

 

[Mat73]

@Mat73 not much you can do there, perhaps avoid 1 to 1 just in case, considering 3 cars going into a corner like Hawthorn an you not having the peak of speed that you need? I mean it is indeed appalling, but if you wait behind him, he'd eventually screw up? and meanwhile you'd save a lap worth of fuel?

Generally speaking, there is some sort of moral high ground feeling floating in this thread that I don't like, good drivers should be practicing and not reporting others. Protesting takes a lot of time (edit the video, upload it, etc etc etc), time that can be invested in improving lap time (better lap time=better qualy=better race). If your lap times were better, guys, you would be probably away of problems? (@Alpha Cipher videos are a good example, even coming from last position. The evidence is there... and is also appalling).

Bad drivers are going to be bad drivers until they crash, just like in real life. Again, I'm talking in general, don't let that moral high ground distract you from your goals. You are not here to change people, to educate them, to report them and get them off the game (they are way too many, and it's way too late for that). I learnt this in real life. I do 200 miles per week, I cross with imbeciles every single day, but I don't touch the horn. Why? Because they will kill themselves eventually, or they will be stopped by police and lose their license and end in jail eventually. I give them space and let them go or just drive away if I can.

I'm starting to get this feeling that some of you guys really believe you are going to achieve something by reporting or protesting a player that was dirty. You're wasting time in this forum, precious time, you should be training. (Don't judge me, I'm at the office, that's why I'm writing). Every 5 minutes here are at least 2 laps of practice that you are not doing. If I were at home right now I would be doing laps like a madman, watching videos, learning to cut the corners better and burning rubber.

Hmmm, not sure where to begin here...

Wasn't a hundred percent confident going in but Brands is one of my okayish tracks so went with it.

Qualified a just below average 13th with number 13 on my car.

Was happy to just keep it on the track and wait for the inevitable mistakes to make up places.

Sat behind a train of cars in front so was shortshifting, saving fuel when I went into a corner and didn't get the best of lines so knew the car behind (the guy that took me off) was going to have a better exit than me.

Rather than blocking and weaving, which I despise, I kept my line on the outside and let him through.

I continued behind him, fuel saving and running slower than my usual race pace for another couple of laps until he made the same mistake as I did.

I continued my pace as to not brake check the car behind when he pulled the ram you see on the footage.

As he continued without any hint of any penalty I chose to post the incident here as is the name of the thread.

I also am aware that there is no point in reporting such behaviour as pointed out by Sven a few days previous.

It's not the driver I am highlighting here but more his action in conjunction with the failings of the current SR system.


Although I appreciate that we all don't see eye to eye, I must say that I found the majority of your post came across in quite a condescending manor considering how detailed your reply was to the short snippet I posted.


As a HGV delivery driver I also see my fair share of shocking driving on the roads and after an 11 or 12 hour day have generally had enough by the time I get in.

I do love this game and have invested many hours practising but am also aware that you can only practice so much before it becomes detrimental to you progress.

I'm not and will never be the quickest of drivers at this but do try my damnedest to be one of the cleanest...As you can see from a quick check on my kudos prime.

Yes, I've had a few bad contacts here and there but who hasn't and I will always hold my hands up and apologise if I done wrong.

I don't however drive like the guy in the video I posted.


....unless you purposely hit me 3 or 4 times, then you'll be off the track!

 

[Kano Manel]

Although I appreciate that we all don't see eye to eye, I must say that I found the majority of your post came across in quite a condescending manor considering how detailed your reply was to the short snippet I posted.

That is why I use: 'in general', or 'generally'. The rest of the post wasn't about you, sorry If you feel offended, not my intention.
Whenever I post 2 or three posts in a row I get edited and merged into one post only, so I try to write everything in a single post myself and can be confusing sometimes. In a side note, I'm pedantic as hell... often, sorry about that too. I also have my part of high ground of moral superiority (which is that I practice harder rather than complaining), or as another user of the forum said once, 'I sit in my horse and watch the peasants'

I am also aware that you can only practice so much before it becomes detrimental to you progress.

I'm very intrigued about this, I work from 6 in the morning to 20:00 5 days a week, I'm extremely short of practice (however I'm #1 in Kent... which says a lot about the level here). I've never reached this point in which practice becomes detrimental to you progress, how is that possible?

------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------

Guys, if you understand Alex's Trebeck's frustration in this video, you will understand players with no problems trying to explain things to moaners

 

[Mat73]

I'm very intrigued about this, I work from 6 in the morning to 20:00 5 days a week, I'm extremely short of practice (however I'm #1 in Kent... which says a lot about the level here). I've never reached this point in which practice becomes detrimental to you progress, how is that possible?

Sorry should read detrimental to your progress (stupid autocorrect on phone).

As in fatigue.

Trying to better your fastest laps and eventually you'll get to the point that you can't even get close to your fastest.
It's then that you should take a break and come back fresher.

(however I'm #1 in Kent... which says a lot about the level here)

Hmmm.....I'm also in Kent and I think you have your ranking areas mixed up, if you are indeed on about the FIA rankings?

In the Nations, Ash9418 is at the top of the local rankings (main area) with my fellow HGV driver workmate sincerekarma555 in second.

I am in sixth after two races and if you are Cano_MotorSport, you're in 30th.

 

[vvise]

Oh for Sven's suggestion of a wider rangier SR rating.

Wouldn't have idiots with a 99 SR like this in last night's Nations race.

I have to assume that he was to tunneled in on making the pass on the car infront of him he totally didn't see you that sucks.

 

[Kano Manel]

Hmmm.....I'm also in Kent and I think you have your ranking areas mixed up, if you are indeed on about the FIA rankings?

Manufacturers with Nissan (probably nobody races Nissan and that is why). I rarely race Nations. In Manufacturers I tend to be matched with a lot of A and S, I finish in top ten and get a lot of points. This never happened to me in Nations, so I just do it for fun.

I have also tried to play dirty, I thought that an SR of A would match me with more A people in Nations... doesn't work.

If you know more people in Kent would be nice to get a lobby and practice together (unless you are an alien, in that case I'll be a mobile chicane)

Edited: add me friend, I've been trying to do a Kent racing club

 

[Mat73]

I have to assume that he was to tunneled in on making the pass on the car infront of him he totally didn't see you that sucks.

Yeah could well have been.

I lost all concentration after that...a couple of spins....finished last.

Didn't rage quit but ended up with a 1300 dr loss.

Second time in a week I'd been at my highest and then fallen.

So close to that A rank....I'll keep trying.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

I'm very intrigued about this, I work from 6 in the morning to 20:00 5 days a week, I'm extremely short of practice (however I'm #1 in Kent... which says a lot about the level here). I've never reached this point in which practice becomes detrimental to you progress, how is that possible?

It's about how you practice. Here's a really good video detailing how to practice effectively:


I'd also like to add competition. The lack of competition can make one complacent, and at worse cases, oxidize their skill level. With no one around the same or higher skill level for you to constantly push you, not only won't you actually improve your skills, but can possibly worsen them as you may start to "forget" your true skill level. You can remedy this somewhat by trying to always set a new personal best if you can't find stiff competition, but Sport mode offers you plenty of that

Edit: Also what Mat said; burnout, or a slump. I've been there before (I think I'm actually in one right now), don't wanna experience it trust me

 

[Kano Manel]

Yeah could well have been.

I lost all concentration after that...a couple of spins....finished last.

Didn't rage quit but ended up with a 1300 dr loss.

Second time in a week I'd been at my highest and then fallen.

So close to that A rank....I'll keep trying.

Yep, saw your stats, you are a bit of an alien yourself E to C in 8 days...

 

[Mat73]

Manufacturers with Nissan (probably nobody races Nissan and that is why). I rarely race Nations. In Manufacturers I tend to be matched with a lot of A and S, I finish in top ten and get a lot of points. This never happened to me in Nations, so I just do it for fun.

I have also tried to play dirty, I thought that an SR of A would match me with more A people in Nations... doesn't work.

If you know more people in Kent would be nice to get a lobby and practice together (unless you are an alien, in that case I'll be a mobile chicane)

Edited: add me friend, I've been trying to do a Kent racing club

Yeah I've also done much better driving in the Manufacturers.

Having some good results with Team Aston.


It appears that not all of your post was actually posted.

Definitely not an alien nor ever will be.

I'm currently residing at the top end of DR B and besides my recent intentional ratings tank out of curiosity, have been for quite a while....the grass isn't that green so won't be doing that again.

Will add you and if you're on when I'm on with my guys that I race with we'll get a lobby together.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I find that people really over bake into some corners while I try to trail brake to the apex and then get on the gas. If I stay behind them I rear end if I do my normal brake I’m half ahead of them at the apex and then I’m through. The only question do they turn into me and does someone get a penalty. I got burned on this and I most likely deserve it on Nurburgring on that big looping hairpin. But those heavy braking zones are tempting passing areas. And I repeatedly got knocked out of pole in the fiat corner. So I was trying to fight back through much slower drivers.

If I lift off of the throttle just before hitting the braking zone and then I hit the brakes 1-2 car lengths earlier than my usual braking point, I practically never hit the car in front. Due to the drafting, you are actually entering faster despite feeling like you are slowing down too much. Timing this right I usually end up bumper to bumper through the apex (where you can make crazy throttling sounds in their headphones). If I'm coming in too hot, I stay on the outside and turn in way later than the lead car angling towards the outside rumble strip. If I'm about to hit them then I can slide further wide to dodge them. Usually though, they're paranoid of me stealing the apex so they turn in just before the turn in marker, getting out of my way. If this happens right before a straight I'll luck out and get more exit speed from the late apex turn and pass them on the straight.

Practice doing this in Campaign mode on Bathurst, it's fun as hell.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Oh for Sven's suggestion of a wider rangier SR rating.

Wouldn't have idiots with a 99 SR like this in last night's Nations race.

This happened on Big Willow as well at SR.99 yesterday and the current penalty system allows it. You are currently at the mercy of the driver ahead on any track with grass or dirt without run off areas areas. It happened too on Tokyo yet there the wall 'saves' you. I'll see how not qualifying on Sarthe goes tonight at dirty hour. (7-8 pm). These types of drivers are everywhere, the lower the SR the more there are.

As for avoiding accidents, I always lift off, brake if there's no one directly behind me, try to steer clear, and often get hit from behind and bumped off the road if not bumped into the car I'm trying to avoid and get a penalty anyway. Diving off the road yourself works, yet that usually gets you a shortcut, wide or wall penalty. When there's traffic behind you, you really only have one option, try to thread the needle and hope the accident ghosts in time. I've had plenty experience with these and lifting / braking in traffic usually leads to the worst case scenario, spun out in the sand with a penalty. In the case above though there did see enough room to slow down and avoid.

Anyway fault detection hasn't improved at all, it's just that certain small bumps now go unpunished, regardless of what effect they have, from none to causing big accidents or cars going off road. It's nice people want to believe that by being a careful and 'smooth' driver you will never get on the bad end of the penalty system, yet that's just not true. As a reminder one I posted earlier:

 

[Alpha Cipher]

If I lift off of the throttle just before hitting the braking zone and then I hit the brakes 1-2 car lengths earlier than my usual braking point, I practically never hit the car in front. Due to the drafting, you are actually entering faster despite feeling like you are slowing down too much. Timing this right I usually end up bumper to bumper through the apex (where you can make crazy throttling sounds in their headphones). If I'm coming in too hot, I stay on the outside and turn in way later than the lead car angling towards the outside rumble strip. If I'm about to hit them then I can slide further wide to dodge them. Usually though, they're paranoid of me stealing the apex so they turn in just before the turn in marker, getting out of my way. If this happens right before a straight I'll luck out and get more exit speed from the late apex turn and pass them on the straight.

Practice doing this in Campaign mode on Bathurst, it's fun as hell.

A more aggressive and delicate approach is to act like you're the car in front. Watch the car ahead and brake when they reach their braking point. Because of the draft you'll come in a little hotter than them, allowing you to close in within millimeters off their back! It's an adrenaline rush everytime I get it right

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I would have lifted until he regained traction (or a clear direction) and then put the throttle on. Is it overly cautious? For a video game, probably but in racing it's a general rule to give out of control people space to recover rather than try and thread the needle full throttle while they try to recover.

You can drive through it Cole!

 

[tecknical]

The problem is, people don't use the braking points, especially in the DR B lobbies.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I'm not getting any penalties tonight on Sarthe, can't test it if nothing happens. People have been driving through me though... Some apparently have figured out how they can simply ghost through people without anyone ghosting. Very annoying as you can't see anything

 

[Kano Manel]

Will add you and if you're on when I'm on with my guys that I race with we'll get a lobby together.

I'd love to, yesterday I was on for a while but didn't have much time (just because wife was in the evening shift). There is a problem in summer, is too hot, and the days in Kent are beautiful, there is no excuse to sit at home and switch the PS4 on. There are gardens to visit, summer farm fairs, you know what I mean. If I turn the monster on for too long I'll have to sleep in the sofa.

That is why I expected the championship to be in winter, because is logic that people will expend more time at home when the weather is crap out there. (I bought the whole thing looking forward to winter)

Does anyone know whether there is anything official planned for winter?

 

[Draggon]

I guess I should feel lucky that I've only gotten one penalty all week, and it was self inflicted. I ran the Audi at Tokyo just now. No qualifying, started from the back, passed some people and was battling for 4th spot a couple of car lengths back, watching him to spot a place to make a clean move. He disconnects and for a moment I get that "woo-hoo" feeling. Then the wizards at PD gift me a 10 second penalty and the little orange SR down flag. I had a nice 5 or 8 second cushion on the car behind me, but that was not enough to burn off that large a penalty without losing a spot.

 

[Kano Manel]

I guess I should feel lucky that I've only gotten one penalty all week, and it was self inflicted. I ran the Audi at Tokyo just now. No qualifying, started from the back, passed some people and was battling for 4th spot a couple of car lengths back, watching him to spot a place to make a clean move. He disconnects and for a moment I get that "woo-hoo" feeling. Then the wizards at PD gift me a 10 second penalty and the little orange SR down flag. I had a nice 5 or 8 second cushion on the car behind me, but that was not enough to burn off that large a penalty without losing a spot.

let me get this right... you did nothing and you got 10 seconds?

 

[Draggon]

let me get this right... you did nothing and you got 10 secondsaa?

Nope, nothing. The game probably saw it as me doing something. The car in front had nice green bars, wasn't lagging, and other than him hitting the wall a couple of times, all was well. Believe me, I was holding back waiting for him to hit the wall a third time. Actually it was pretty funny. He was there and then poof! he was gone.

Oh well. I've had worse things happen. Hurts less when it's 4th place and not the lead.

 

[Kano Manel]

that is a genuin

Nope, nothing. The game probably saw it as me doing something. The car in front had nice green bars, wasn't lagging, and other than him hitting the wall a couple of times, all was well. Believe me, I was holding back waiting for him to hit the wall a third time.

Oh well. I've had worse things happen. Hurts less when it's 4th place and not the lead.

That is a genuine complain to raise and report.

The same happened to me in Lago Maggiore, after the hairpin. Whenever I touched the kerb with 1 wheel it would give me 10 seconds for no reason. But yesterday I raced there again and it was normal.

I wonder, is it wise to restart the PS4 before official race?

 

[TheGeologist]

Okay, I am officially on the boat of "This penalty system being a piece of ****"

Light bump to the guy in front of me - Result. 10 sec penalty


Interlagos SLAM fest - Result. 3 second penalty for me (received while spinning out of control) and none for the drivers who slam me and each other... Listen for the smashing sound in front and behind of me. Keep an eye on the radar.

 

[ivann]

Videos:

A good sports ride that will bring you among the last places in the fast room.

Now, here is a video that shows top sportsmanship and pace (I would gladly see it in-game as Racing Et. 3):