PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

Got a 10 second penalty for this the other day:


lmao... If the algorithm can't detect that this guy was already spinning out, smoking up his tires and near sideways well before I hit him then it's a complete failure. No excuse for this; just pure incompetent penalty algorithms.
 
In 1776 the British were upset and argued that we didn't fight in formations such as theirs, a big block formation, where we meet face to face and fight out in the open. We instead hid behind trees and used landscape features for cover and concealment.

The British were defeated.
Implying you would cut the chicane because it's more effective? That not cutting the chicane is as stupid as big block formations?
 
Got a 10 second penalty for this the other day:


lmao... If the algorithm can't detect that this guy was already spinning out, smoking up his tires and near sideways well before I hit him then it's a complete failure. No excuse for this; just pure incompetent penalty algorithms.


You didn't get a penalty because the game thought you spun him out. You got a penalty because you could have avoided hitting him, but didn't.
 
I hope this notion of people racing by there own rules doesn't mean that's a good thing. There's etiquette videos for sport mode that clearly state no contact. Plus whatever "don't do anything that makes you look bad" is supposed to mean. However cutting a chicane probably makes you look bad, messing up the grass can't be popular with the groundskeeper!

It certainly does seem that the other car going off road or making contact with a wall is what triggers the penalty.
THJfjm1.gif

Here the car behind me on my inside wobbles slightly into me, at first no problem we both stay on and I can avoid the wall, yet the next car bumps him into the wall and as soon as he touches the wall I get a 5 sec penalty. Could I have avoided that. Sure, I could have stayed in the outer lane driving like a granny. Giving up half the road to a car that's still behind is not enough.

Of course it doesn't matter how much care you take when someone messes up in front at the start
HFdNgCu.gif

I guess I still didn't leave enough margin as I simply cannot out brake the ping pong physics. 2 cars in front collide, a 3rd bumps into it, instantly stalls, I brake to no avail and get the honor of getting a penalty while the chain effect ripples on backwards.

I had a 10 sec penalty in another race as well when someone suddenly cut in front of me on the way to the wall. No real effect to either of us yet it counted as contact and since I didn't stop him from slightly touching the wall (didn't even slow down) I got 10 sec.

Oh well, It's Bluemoon sprint race, the only way SR is gonna go is down. Despite many clean races I'm in SR.B as when I get one of those nonsense penalties I simply go draft bumping to help others ahead. Clean race bonus with a red rating is the new normal.

I think I found a real cheater. This dude suddenly goes to 1 bar in T1, no lag issues before, none after. His laggy car crashes both of us off and he goes on ahead while I get to deal with the idiots. When I get clear I start catching up to him but it's too late. He crosses the finish with a flashing penalty sign, ofcourse no penalty at the result screen. He left the room straight away. I reported him for interfering and illicit activity.

And sometimes you meet these kind of people, the real scum, and the game dropped me further down to SR.C for having the pleasure of getting in a race with him. Penalty for getting rammed 3 times in a row, just because he crashed himself right after.

He quit the race after taking out at least 4 people. Will reporting do anything?
With this kind of profile http://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=2433882 I guess not.
 
I hope this notion of people racing by there own rules doesn't mean that's a good thing. There's etiquette videos for sport mode that clearly state no contact. Plus whatever "don't do anything that makes you look bad" is supposed to mean. However cutting a chicane probably makes you look bad, messing up the grass can't be popular with the groundskeeper!

It certainly does seem that the other car going off road or making contact with a wall is what triggers the penalty.
THJfjm1.gif

Here the car behind me on my inside wobbles slightly into me, at first no problem we both stay on and I can avoid the wall, yet the next car bumps him into the wall and as soon as he touches the wall I get a 5 sec penalty. Could I have avoided that. Sure, I could have stayed in the outer lane driving like a granny. Giving up half the road to a car that's still behind is not enough.

Of course it doesn't matter how much care you take when someone messes up in front at the start
HFdNgCu.gif

I guess I still didn't leave enough margin as I simply cannot out brake the ping pong physics. 2 cars in front collide, a 3rd bumps into it, instantly stalls, I brake to no avail and get the honor of getting a penalty while the chain effect ripples on backwards.

I had a 10 sec penalty in another race as well when someone suddenly cut in front of me on the way to the wall. No real effect to either of us yet it counted as contact and since I didn't stop him from slightly touching the wall (didn't even slow down) I got 10 sec.

Oh well, It's Bluemoon sprint race, the only way SR is gonna go is down. Despite many clean races I'm in SR.B as when I get one of those nonsense penalties I simply go draft bumping to help others ahead. Clean race bonus with a red rating is the new normal.

I think I found a real cheater. This dude suddenly goes to 1 bar in T1, no lag issues before, none after. His laggy car crashes both of us off and he goes on ahead while I get to deal with the idiots. When I get clear I start catching up to him but it's too late. He crosses the finish with a flashing penalty sign, ofcourse no penalty at the result screen. He left the room straight away. I reported him for interfering and illicit activity.

And sometimes you meet these kind of people, the real scum, and the game dropped me further down to SR.C for having the pleasure of getting in a race with him. Penalty for getting rammed 3 times in a row, just because he crashed himself right after.

He quit the race after taking out at least 4 people. Will reporting do anything?
With this kind of profile http://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=2433882 I guess not.

I think the "don't do anything that makes you look bad", in the tutorial videos, is mainly aimed at kids. He sounds like he's talking down to a child when he keeps repeating it. Just something that stuck in my mind.

I had some good races last night at blue moon in the Mitsubishi. Won 1, was 2nd in another and mostly podium postions in the rest.

Experienced one really bad dirty race there yesterday but rest of them were clean(ish). This is at Sr.S.

In my win on the last corner, we were 3 abreast going in. The guy on the inside tried to bounce his way into the apex and steal the win by wall bouncing me out, but this made me win the race by bouncing me into the other guy on the outside and correcting the slide imposed onto me. Unlucky for him, the guy on the outside, and he blamed me in chat after the race for it.

I didn't know what happened until i saw the replay and how lucky and indeed innocent i was in the incident.

No penalty for the barging in driver for the collision though. Obviously if the penalty system was far more sophisticated it would be able to understand cause and effect.


Full race, in car and out replay.
 
Last edited:
I hope this notion of people racing by there own rules doesn't mean that's a good thing.
It's neither good nor bad by itself, it's just human nature. However it's something I've commented on before in relation to online gaming.

You know when you play board or card games at home or on a crappy holiday with your family when you were kids? Someone always cheats. Or Monopoly, where someone always cheats and even if they don't, someone always turns into a right ****. That's what playing games with other people is like in your own home/family.

Scale it up by a million, and then put the people in remote locations where you can't slap them round the head, like you would do with your younger sibling when they roll the die onto the floor and then lie about it being a five so they skip the snake and go up the ladder instead. That's multiplayer online gaming.

People cheat, lie, and have tantrums. They break the rules to get an advantage and they don't like getting caught - or when other people break the rules to get an advantage.

Putting them into a room to play the same game as you defines your gaming experience by their behaviour. It's why I don't like online gaming - I play games for enjoyment, relaxation and spare time. My spare time is my spare time. It isn't other people's to waste, but online gaming is exactly that, bar the exceptionally rare entirely positive experience. And, of course, private lobbies and LANs - although from time to time, someone with the wrong attitude sneaks into those too.


Of course most games now have rule sets designed to prevent too much of that behaviour leaking into public environments too - auto-booting teamkillers, ghosting griefers, and of course the systems for reporting those who want to hijack your game time by turning into that Monopoly ****.

But ultimately everyone plays by their own standards. If someone wants to cut the chicane at La Sarthe and can do so because the game won't punish them for it, they can do it if that's what their standard is. It's not mine - I don't use the line at Maggiore turn 4 even though the game doesn't punish you for it, and I didn't use the concrete run-off into the first tunnel turn at Deep Forest (or out of the last one on the reverse track) even though there weren't penalties at all. Their standard doesn't have to be mine, and I can't force mine onto them.
 
That's a pretty negative outlook on people. There are more races that are clean to those where 1 or 2 people mess things up. The problem I have with the penalty and SR system is that first of all it matches me with these people while you only need one glance at their KP profile to tell that mine and many people's idea of how to race is polar opposite to how they race. And second, getting penalties for getting rammed repeatedly as my last video shows.

It's on PD that they can't separate these completely obvious cases from people that make simple mistakes and generally drive clean. Actually the ruined races are the rare ones, it's just that PD counts them so heavily I still end up in SR.C after 16 races. That's all on PD's failed implementation. Get the obvious cases right first!

I've had much worse experiences with lobbies run by little dictators. Giving people the ability to kick others based on their own unstated rule set and limited perspective is even worse. Trying to find a fair host is a bigger waste of time to me than the occasional ruined race, which often still turns out to be fun as there are plenty other people in the room to race. In a lobby with 6 racers you are much more likely to race alone after one little incident. That race with the likely lag switch cheater I got second with the clean race bonus (although red SR) and being able to escape the messy drivers and get close to catching up to the cheater felt great. Even that race where I met that pos was a fun race over all racing the rest of the room, unfortunately the penalty dropped me to 6th at the finish and PD felt the need to drop me to SR.C for the actions of a repeat rammer that quit and dropped to E with a DR reset.

So yes, I fully accept that cheaters and bad drivers exist. That doesn't excuse the poor state the penalty and SR system is in.
 
I hope this notion of people racing by there own rules doesn't mean that's a good thing. There's etiquette videos for sport mode that clearly state no contact. Plus whatever "don't do anything that makes you look bad" is supposed to mean. However cutting a chicane probably makes you look bad, messing up the grass can't be popular with the groundskeeper!

It certainly does seem that the other car going off road or making contact with a wall is what triggers the penalty.
THJfjm1.gif

Here the car behind me on my inside wobbles slightly into me, at first no problem we both stay on and I can avoid the wall, yet the next car bumps him into the wall and as soon as he touches the wall I get a 5 sec penalty. Could I have avoided that. Sure, I could have stayed in the outer lane driving like a granny. Giving up half the road to a car that's still behind is not enough.

Of course it doesn't matter how much care you take when someone messes up in front at the start
HFdNgCu.gif

I guess I still didn't leave enough margin as I simply cannot out brake the ping pong physics. 2 cars in front collide, a 3rd bumps into it, instantly stalls, I brake to no avail and get the honor of getting a penalty while the chain effect ripples on backwards.

I had a 10 sec penalty in another race as well when someone suddenly cut in front of me on the way to the wall. No real effect to either of us yet it counted as contact and since I didn't stop him from slightly touching the wall (didn't even slow down) I got 10 sec.

Oh well, It's Bluemoon sprint race, the only way SR is gonna go is down. Despite many clean races I'm in SR.B as when I get one of those nonsense penalties I simply go draft bumping to help others ahead. Clean race bonus with a red rating is the new normal.

I think I found a real cheater. This dude suddenly goes to 1 bar in T1, no lag issues before, none after. His laggy car crashes both of us off and he goes on ahead while I get to deal with the idiots. When I get clear I start catching up to him but it's too late. He crosses the finish with a flashing penalty sign, ofcourse no penalty at the result screen. He left the room straight away. I reported him for interfering and illicit activity.

And sometimes you meet these kind of people, the real scum, and the game dropped me further down to SR.C for having the pleasure of getting in a race with him. Penalty for getting rammed 3 times in a row, just because he crashed himself right after.

He quit the race after taking out at least 4 people. Will reporting do anything?
With this kind of profile http://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=2433882 I guess not.


This dude is playing a completely different game from the rest of us.

Like you suggest maybe they could look at both current SR and historical SR to match make.
 
That's a pretty negative outlook on people.
Not really. It's more of a statistically valid outlook from experience and observation. If it wasn't, you'd not need a front door key.

Head out onto the roads. Go for a long drive, but stick to the speed limit (use GPS if you like, to be sure). Now count how many cars and vans you pass versus how many people pass you (exclude trucks - they have different, governed speed limits). That's the proportion of people who follow the rules to those who break them - and speed limits are legally enforceable! I'm in the latter camp in this particular instance, because my standards say that 75mph in a 70mph won't get me caught or pulled over (guidelines put enforcement at 78mph+), will get me to my destination in acceptable time, but also won't pose a particular danger to other road users who may not be expecting a vehicle moving at much higher speeds. It's playing fair, just not necessarily to the rules.

There's always someone who's a **** at Monopoly, and that's usually only four players. Put them in a situation where they can't face direct consequences from the people they're being ****s to and it only gets worse. Just take a look at any Call of Duty public lobby in the last all of them.

There are more races that are clean to those where 1 or 2 people mess things up.
I don't concur.

I've encountered maybe two races that I can remember where there were no penalties and no red dots at the end of the race, although I'm up over 300 now, so there may be others I've missed. Granted, there's very few races where I've been able to directly observe every driver at some point in the race in real-time, and I've not picked through many replays - and of course some penalties come from genuine mistakes, such as a loss of control leading to a contact/off-track, rather than any deliberate actions. In the lower SR rankings there's a lot of deliberate asshattery, and a great deal of tit-for-tat - once someone has caused one incident, the affected drivers take revenge, and so it continues to the end of the race. In the higher SR rankings there seems to be less, until you start getting to B/A DRs, at which point you get at least one player every race who lives by the "if you no longer go for a gap" mantra, and thinks defending a position means by any means necessary. But then that's how they want to play the game.

Races in which everyone has been a thundersnatch are rare, but I'd estimate that roughly one-quarter of all drivers I've seen in all of my races have been hit with at least one penalty. I've been hit with a few myself - some from avoidable contact, some from a corner cut (got hit with something like 0.466s at Dragon Trail Gardens the other day; I was unsighted into the quad-apex and turned into the first just a hair too early) and some from something bizarre that I've already forgotten about because it's not an important part of my existence. However, the fact I've got penalties myself means that, sometimes, despite my best efforts, I'm at fault. I tagged a driver in a boneheaded understeer moment in T1 at Brands last week. Fortunately he kept it on track - so I got no penalty - and I was able to hold my position while letting him get his back, and I apologised afterwards.


Ultimately, your experience in online games is defined by the other players and, to date, no ruleset or punishment system I've encountered has been enough to keep everyone playing by the same rules.
 
I find the penalty system much more lenient since the last update. I’ve had one 10 second penalty when I was brake tested and wasn’t paying attention. Other than that I have to go out of my way to incure a penalty. Le Mans track limits are my major remaining issue.
 
Please don't take it personal.:cheers:

I won't. I just hope you won't take my reply personal either.


A couple of problems, first you are dividing playerbase which in the americas region isn't that big and matchmaking has problems with very different Drs being matched. Then take into account blocking, also exploiting blocking to get wins or poles. For senna and schumacher achievements for example or for the sake of it, even to try and take their first win. Once the people know how a system works there will always be people trying to game it.

The worldwide player base is big, & dividing it is therefore no problem. If a certain region is small, then that may only cause a problem in region specific events, & I'd rather compete on track with a handful other relatively clean racers than a full grid of dirty drivers. The other answer is to simply not have region specific events, which I'd be happy with as a trade off for races being cleaner. I never had a problem finding Clean Shuffle rooms to race in in GT5.


The very definition of clean driver. Some may not be that clean still think they are. Also since they made an honest mistake may not want to give a place back. Clean an honorable are not the same thing.

That's not a problem in any of my ideas, but is always a problem where the definition of clean is not explained. PD have no rules or regulations as to what constitutes "clean" (apart from the two severely lacking etiquette videos). Whenever I hosted "Clean" rooms on GT5/6, I'd text everyone who entered the room my definition of clean so that there was no misunderstanding. Likewise, if the definition of clean was clearly explained before entering a room, people would have very little excuse for not sticking to it.


Dirty drivers still entering the clean races. Why? Because no one is ever going to rage about being taken out in a dirty room. Maybe some think clean players are faster and want to try and beat them or take them out for being "try hards".

Again, that's not a problem with my ideas as I already acknowledged that we would still get the odd troll here & there (nowhere have I claimed that my idea would result in 100% clean races). Any trolls would be taken care of by 1) people putting "it" onto their PSN Block lists, & 2) reporting "it" to the game dev along with an uploaded replay so that they could deal with them. The more trolls I put on my blocked list in GT5, the cleaner & cleaner my rooms got as a result.


All this in a penalty free environment. Say hello to even more agressive circuit cutting.

You're misrepresenting my argument here (that's what a Strawman is), as nowhere have I said that all public lobbies should be free of penalties. In fact in post 241 in this thread said that I'd like to see; "...stewards AI programs in racing sims that actually act somewhat like real life stewards & give out real world penalties...". And, in post 424 I said I'd, like to see, "...positional penalties at the end of the race, & DSQ's...". What I'm against is automatic penalty systems dishing out fantasy penalties.


From a franchise standpoint it would not be very good for the sport mode which wants to present itself as a serious esport backed by Fia to have an official Dirty sport mode. Also the image of Gran turismo itself as the "real driving simulator". I am not buying their tagline but they are still pushing it that way.

What's considered clean or dirty varies between different types of motorsport. Rallycross can be very aggressive, & although the BTCC is considered a non contact sport; I can't remember a driver ever being penalized for deliberately bump passing another. The FIA backs lots of different types of motorsports with differing levels of cleanliness, so I see no reason why they wouldn't want to do that in a video game; especially when it would result in cleaner races for those who want it.

My idea isn't a single one, but a composite of ideas. As I said in post 590 "My answer would be to have a whole series of measures designed into a sim from the ground up to minimise the problem to the point that 99.9% of the races would be devoid of dirty drivers who make deliberate contact. Some of these points I have mentioned here in this thread, some I have not." Again, my ideas are not specific to Gran Turismo or GT Sport, but to sim racing in general.
 
Last edited:
You didn't get a penalty because the game thought you spun him out. You got a penalty because you could have avoided hitting him, but didn't.
I never implied it did think I spun him out. But it should detect that I inconsequentially bumped a car that was very hard to avoid and gained absolutely nothing from it. Just how is that worth 10 seconds?

It may have been possible to avoid but that would've involved driving off the race track to the left or slamming the brakes and trying the same. Instead, I opted for a minor steering correction and accelerator lift and thought he was just out of my range (thinking on the fly all in the span of a second or so), but he wasn't. But at this point, nobody lost out cause of what I did and I gained nothing, so why the hell am I being penalized? You would never see a penalty for that in any real world race. Penalties simply for making contact with a car are incredibly senseless, and even more so when they are spinning out and are hard to avoid. It's enough of a penalty to avoid the car without ruining your race, no need to throw salt into the wound.
 
Hi,
I drove quietly with my new American account Putin, when I was penalized with 10s of penalty while I did not touch anyone, no wall or even made out of track. Was Putin wronged on American soil?

NO CONTACT, NO OFF-TRACK, 10s PENALTY!!!



But I have to say the penalty system is better now than before.
 
Not really. It's more of a statistically valid outlook from experience and observation. If it wasn't, you'd not need a front door key.

Head out onto the roads. Go for a long drive, but stick to the speed limit (use GPS if you like, to be sure). Now count how many cars and vans you pass versus how many people pass you (exclude trucks - they have different, governed speed limits). That's the proportion of people who follow the rules to those who break them - and speed limits are legally enforceable! I'm in the latter camp in this particular instance, because my standards say that 75mph in a 70mph won't get me caught or pulled over (guidelines put enforcement at 78mph+), will get me to my destination in acceptable time, but also won't pose a particular danger to other road users who may not be expecting a vehicle moving at much higher speeds. It's playing fair, just not necessarily to the rules.

There's always someone who's a **** at Monopoly, and that's usually only four players. Put them in a situation where they can't face direct consequences from the people they're being ****s to and it only gets worse. Just take a look at any Call of Duty public lobby in the last all of them.


I don't concur.

I've encountered maybe two races that I can remember where there were no penalties and no red dots at the end of the race, although I'm up over 300 now, so there may be others I've missed. Granted, there's very few races where I've been able to directly observe every driver at some point in the race in real-time, and I've not picked through many replays - and of course some penalties come from genuine mistakes, such as a loss of control leading to a contact/off-track, rather than any deliberate actions. In the lower SR rankings there's a lot of deliberate asshattery, and a great deal of tit-for-tat - once someone has caused one incident, the affected drivers take revenge, and so it continues to the end of the race. In the higher SR rankings there seems to be less, until you start getting to B/A DRs, at which point you get at least one player every race who lives by the "if you no longer go for a gap" mantra, and thinks defending a position means by any means necessary. But then that's how they want to play the game.

Races in which everyone has been a thundersnatch are rare, but I'd estimate that roughly one-quarter of all drivers I've seen in all of my races have been hit with at least one penalty. I've been hit with a few myself - some from avoidable contact, some from a corner cut (got hit with something like 0.466s at Dragon Trail Gardens the other day; I was unsighted into the quad-apex and turned into the first just a hair too early) and some from something bizarre that I've already forgotten about because it's not an important part of my existence. However, the fact I've got penalties myself means that, sometimes, despite my best efforts, I'm at fault. I tagged a driver in a boneheaded understeer moment in T1 at Brands last week. Fortunately he kept it on track - so I got no penalty - and I was able to hold my position while letting him get his back, and I apologised afterwards.


Ultimately, your experience in online games is defined by the other players and, to date, no ruleset or punishment system I've encountered has been enough to keep everyone playing by the same rules.

Don't let you experience be defined by the minority. You estimate yourself it's about 25% of all drivers, in my experience it's less than that. Even at ,lower SR the majority still tries to drive clean. Looking at penalties issued to say whether a race was clean (in the sense nobody started **** on purpose) is kinda pointless which is what this whole thread is about.

Law enforcement doesn't go after the people that drive sensibly and don't endanger others even though they go 10% over the speed limit or more. Here in Canada we don't have speed cameras and trucks and cars all drive 110 to 120kph on the major highways (limit is 100) much more sensible than the different speed limits for cars and trucks in Europe! The outliers get pulled over for good reason. GTS however lets the outliers do their thing while randomly punishing those that race with care. Of course that's the difference with real stewards (police on the road) and dumb speed cameras.

Anyway how many people a day check if your front door or car is locked, most people are good!


Hi,
I drove quietly with my new American account Putin, when I was penalized with 10s of penalty while I did not touch anyone, no wall or even made out of track. Was Putin wronged on American soil?

NO CONTACT, NO OFF-TRACK, 10s PENALTY!!!



But I have to say the penalty system is better now than before.


Erm contact
jzRc.jpg

Touched a wreck is 10 sec
 
Last edited:
Implying you would cut the chicane because it's more effective? That not cutting the chicane is as stupid as big block formations?
Not at all. Just saying that others will play by the rules that suit them best. When rules and regulations are not enforced, greed will usually take over.
I admire the integrity it takes to do the right thing, even when nobody's looking.
 
Hi, thanks for your reply.

I do not see any contact here, I watched the slow motion closely.

In addition, (IF) the wreck touched me, not the reverse.

jzRc.jpg

Touched a wreck is 10 sec[/QUOTE]
 
Last edited:
Hi, thanks for your reply.

I do not see any contact here, I watched the slow motion closely.

In addition, the wreck touched me, not the reverse.

jzRc.jpg

Touched a wreck is 10 sec
Sadly, the game does not distinguish between hitting and getting hit in the front so you were awarded the penalty simply because you were moving forward as the contact happened. The cruel irony here is that I bet you the 458 that caused that entire incident did not receive a penalty because he contacted from the side. For whatever reason I rarely see side contact penalized in GT Sport, which really encourages divebombs like that in the first place. It is very backwards.
 
Sadly, the game does not distinguish between hitting and getting hit in the front so you were awarded the penalty simply because you were moving forward as the contact happened. The cruel irony here is that I bet you the 458 that caused that entire incident did not receive a penalty because he contacted from the side. For whatever reason I rarely see side contact penalized in GT Sport, which really encourages divebombs like that in the first place. It is very backwards.

Thanks for the reply,
Yep, you’re right.
I just watched again the replay with a different view, and I can certify THERE IS NOT CONTACT AT ALL.
I can post and edit another video with the new view.
 
Good evening/afternoon/morning all! Definitely (imo) the Penalty system has improved vastly. Still some stuff there... I experienced the strangest look from my car racing today and wonder if it's possible to CHEAT in GTS? I raced this guy in front of me and he went a little wide in turn one so I was able to get inside but he closed the door unfairly and he got a penalty sign posted a few seconds later over his car. I didn't get anything as I thought that was fair. I followed him all the way to the finish line watching the PENALY sign above his car until he crossed the finish line and crashing into the side of the track. I was sure that he would at least get a 3 second penalty for that move he did and I followed him all the way and he didn't slow down once. When the results came up I was in second place with no red dot for me but he didn't get a red dot either? How on the planet did he avoid that penalty on his final results is not for me to understand (sorry). Is it a cheat trick to crash into the sidewall shortly after the finish line?

 
Thanks for the reply,
Yep, you’re right.
I just watched again the replay with a different view, and I can certify THERE IS NOT CONTACT AT ALL.
I can post and edit another video with the new view.
It does look like that Viper does stop moving towards the right of the track as soon as it "hits" you though, and your car shifts to the right as well but I can't say whether that's you turning on your own or a combo of you turning + getting hit . But keep in mind the game has invisible hit boxes around the cars that aren't exactly accurate to their proportions, which is frankly lazy game design. I think it may have happened in my case as well earlier on this page where I don't think I actually hit where his car was but the invisible hit boxes of our cars may have contacted. Either that or due to lag it may not appear that your cars touched, but knowing how the game works I'm pretty sure they did and that's why you got the penalty.
 
It does look like that Viper does stop moving towards the right of the track as soon as it "hits" you though, and your car shifts to the right as well but I can't say whether that's you turning on your own or a combo of you turning + getting hit . But keep in mind the game has invisible hit boxes around the cars that aren't exactly accurate to their proportions, which is frankly lazy game design. I think it may have happened in my case as well earlier on this page where I don't think I actually hit where his car was but the invisible hit boxes of our cars may have contacted. Either that or due to lag it may not appear that your cars touched, but knowing how the game works I'm pretty sure they did and that's why you got the penalty.

Nice job, I close the case.
Thank you.
 
Not me. The last version of the penalties were broken with their intolerance for contact and they killed close racing but after running a dozen races under the new system, I like them. One 5 second penalty (risked a pass on a laggy driver...duh...:dunce:) in all of them and any light contact went unpunished other than small SR drops. You soon see how much 'not so light' contact (like the above video) gets rewarded with penalties so you're forewarned.

Drivers attempting bad moves or accidents aside, it's definitely workable. You just have to give more room, even when you think they don't deserve it. Don't leave it up to the judges...

On a lot of the example videos in here, a lot of them have two sides to their story from what I've seen. Bad positioning and/or slow reactions usually. Most look like they're avoidable but Verstappen mode kicks in and they start chasing lost causes. I'd do the same with my friends list but never with someone I don't know. It's not worth the risk.

Thank you friend for you're efforts to encourage me 👍. They're a bit hopeless right now as there is literally nothing that could make me enter an SM race :D. All I work on is liveries and credits and I incredibly enjoy to start the game knowing I don't have to deal with that Sport Mode crap :). That's how I feel at least.

I've carefully read @Famine 's posts above ( kudos to him for all this energy and patience 👍 ) and as much as almost every part is true, logical and understandable, there's something in my thinking that doesn't align with it.

So ... at the moment I'm stuck :confused:.
 
Thanks for the reply,
Yep, you’re right.
I just watched again the replay with a different view, and I can certify THERE IS NOT CONTACT AT ALL.
I can post and edit another video with the new view.

What @Conquerer said, but also note that replays aren't as accurate as saving the video from the live race. Replays use the telemetry received from the other cars while the penalties are based on their telemetry slightly forward predicted in time to compensate for lag. Even then I have had penalties for contact while the contact indicators (red circles) never lit up,


Good evening/afternoon/morning all! Definitely (imo) the Penalty system has improved vastly. Still some stuff there... I experienced the strangest look from my car racing today and wonder if it's possible to CHEAT in GTS? I raced this guy in front of me and he went a little wide in turn one so I was able to get inside but he closed the door unfairly and he got a penalty sign posted a few seconds later over his car. I didn't get anything as I thought that was fair. I followed him all the way to the finish line watching the PENALY sign above his car until he crossed the finish line and crashing into the side of the track. I was sure that he would at least get a 3 second penalty for that move he did and I followed him all the way and he didn't slow down once. When the results came up I was in second place with no red dot for me but he didn't get a red dot either? How on the planet did he avoid that penalty on his final results is not for me to understand (sorry). Is it a cheat trick to crash into the sidewall shortly after the finish line?



It's lag, he never touched you on his console. And yes it is possible to cheat, see my post above about the lag switch. Same thing, he drove over the finish with a penalty yet no penalty. It looks like he manipulated his data speed at the right moment to punt both of us in T1 while simply driving on unimpeded on his screen.
 
What @Conquerer said, but also note that replays aren't as accurate as saving the video from the live race. Replays use the telemetry received from the other cars while the penalties are based on their telemetry slightly forward predicted in time to compensate for lag. Even then I have had penalties for contact while the contact indicators (red circles) never lit up,




It's lag, he never touched you on his console. And yes it is possible to cheat, see my post above about the lag switch. Same thing, he drove over the finish with a penalty yet no penalty. It looks like he manipulated his data speed at the right moment to punt both of us in T1 while simply driving on unimpeded on his screen.
How do they find out these things? If it's known why is not fixed? well well - ......
 
Thank you friend for you're efforts to encourage me 👍. They're a bit hopeless right now as there is literally nothing that could make me enter an SM race :D. All I work on is liveries and credits and I incredibly enjoy to start the game knowing I don't have to deal with that Sport Mode crap :). That's how I feel at least.

I've carefully read @Famine 's posts above ( kudos to him for all this energy and patience 👍 ) and as much as almost every part is true, logical and understandable, there's something in my thinking that doesn't align with it.

So ... at the moment I'm stuck :confused:.

We've lived through quick match and seen the worst and best people can do. These dailies are a walk in the park by comparison as we know every trick that can be thrown at us.:lol:

I'm thinking of doing a nightly (9pm) numpty free (apart from me) lobby so if you can tear yourself away from your beloved AI and resprays...:D
 
@Famine ... some of the best posts I have read on any forum in a very long time.
Thanks for taking the time to put together clear, accurate and (they certainly feel to me) honest responses and explanations.

@Faux Nul Zero ... first off, of course hind sight is 20/20... so, grain of salt here...
Having seen the Ferrari driver struggle to exit a simple turn, miss the driving line entirely, then have a hard time keeping the car straight, on a ... straight...
I'd have simply given him the line knowing it was a certainty for him to run off track/into someone else/dispersed himself.
If none of those things were to happen, it's near dead set in stone he doesn't know how to exit a corner, so, get a run out and "be gone" on the next straight... brake "on the line" just a little early, then dive across the track to avoid the punt... he'll be going so fast with no brakes, there will be no way he can cut across the track to "use you as a brake", and, presto, he's in the weeds... and you'll not see him again.

It's not about having the "right", it's not about "rules", it is about finding ways to suck in those types, and have them remove themselves from competition.
Against better racers it gets into true defense and attack strategies, but, against better racers... they have control of their car, and, if they want to be dirty there's not much you can do about it... so, be the @Famine and play on with knowing that is the case.
 
It does look like that Viper does stop moving towards the right of the track as soon as it "hits" you though, and your car shifts to the right as well but I can't say whether that's you turning on your own or a combo of you turning + getting hit . But keep in mind the game has invisible hit boxes around the cars that aren't exactly accurate to their proportions, which is frankly lazy game design. I think it may have happened in my case as well earlier on this page where I don't think I actually hit where his car was but the invisible hit boxes of our cars may have contacted. Either that or due to lag it may not appear that your cars touched, but knowing how the game works I'm pretty sure they did and that's why you got the penalty.

Here you can better see the "invisible hit box around the car" if that's what happened.
Thank you guys for all the answers.

 
How do they find out these things? If it's known why is not fixed? well well - ......

It's a small miracle that it works at all. There's only 16.6ms per frame to do everything. The user needs to see where the cars are 'now' compared to your own car, yet for example the average ping time between Toronto and Buenos Aires is 168ms. When I race against Argentinians I receive their car telemetry 10 frames late and they receive mine 10 frames late as well.

At 250 kph you move up almost 70 m/s, well over a meter per frame. At high speeds what you see is the car moved ahead about 10 meters from where the last data of the user input was received. Hence you see cars with yellow bars wobble all the time.

The clients handle the prediction of where everyone most likely is to present it to the user all at the same time corrected for the time frame the user is in. PD's philosophy apparently is that you are responsible for how you react to the data on your screen. If you hit the laggy car you get a penalty, even though on their side of the world you never made contact. Which is fine if the forward prediction didn't mess up so often making contact a lot worse than it would be. Also the assignment of blame is often wrong so another car lagging into you can give you a penalty for doing nothing wrong.

With simple communication of observed contact between the clients you can fix the discrepancies in the penalties. Yet fixing the prediction algorithms to work better in real time is a headache and once your console has registered a hit that affects you car, it can't take it back!
 
Back