PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[Jagman XK8]

@killerjimbag
We know you prefer the inferior game with less features.

My takeaway is this. In order for the system to function effectively, it should prevent contact/dirty racers from gaining rank, points, or positions.
To be frank, it’s worst at the highest levels, because those players have the skill to game it.
I am left with simply taking matters into my own hands, and seeing to it that dirty behavior is not rewarded but punished, within my own races.
Until the system further evolves that’s what must be done imo.
The reward shouldn’t be there for dirty moves.
That said the majority of races I partake in are ok.

I’d say revert everything back to the initial setup.

@killerjimbag
Sorry, I dislike all the bugs, the graphics problems, frame rate problems, lack of consistency between cars, over cooked tire temp model, garbage ffb, unfair tuning hacks only a few know about, lack of support, etc etc etc on ps4. I don’t like that some cars drive ok, and others were just thrown in without effort. For weather dr2 is way way better. Hydroplaning effect on wet surface over cooked, the horrid world shake, the fact it takes hours of changes to make it even semi drivable, the lack of fun. Just don’t like it.
DR2 is where it’s at as a counterpoint to the Industry leader on ps4.
Plus, I race online almost daily, most races are quite fun and I race people within tenths of my q.
I’m fine.
The initial pen system of shared fault was great imo.
Have a nice day.

Two interesting posts and thanks.

Your comments about unfair tuning hacks caught my eye and I wonder how prevalent this is within the racing community? I ask this because I started taking part in the online time trials (for non subscribers) when they were introduced a few months ago and was absolutely amazed how people were managing to complete a circuit so much quicker than anything I could possibly contemplate. I would push my 'identical' car to its absolute limits, yet when I loaded the ghost of another, it pulled away from me as if I was driving something with sugar in the tank. On corners, their car behaved like it was on rails, whereas mine would end up in the gravel at the same speeds.

I accept, without reservation, that my one years experience in GTS cannot possibly compete with the top drivers, but I do wonder whether we are all on a level playing field, given the excessive margins in timing I have seen?

Thoughts anyone?

Nick

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I mainly only do FIA races where you have to wait while the replay runs through the grid before you can start fast forwarding, so there's not much chance of having a good look at anything before the room closes, plus the races are longer so there's more to look through. Deciding whether someone's behaviour merits reporting them isn't something I'd want to rush through anyway, even if in practice it does nothing.

Not that replay, press the share button on the ds4, save the video, go to the gallery, ffwd through that (upto 120x, stepping in 30 sec increments, plenty fast) Make sure to set the recording time long enough in settings to cover the whole race.

It's mainly to make sure you don't call out the wrong person like what happened to me just now again. Someone went off on me, ramming me, brake check at the end (which I got a penalty for) while I was never near him in the incidents he blamed me for.

 

[Voodoovaj]

To be very clear to the pessimists in the crowd, there is a very valid point to this venting.

First off, there are people within Sony (at the very least, if not within PD itself) who do read these forums and do make sure the feedback is provided to the development team. The more outrage there is, the more closely the subject is scrutinized. Whether it changes or not is a different issue.

There is data being shifted back to the developers. If people are playing less, and there are people saying that the penalty system is the reason they are playing less, then that's a big deal because it speaks to future iterations. We, as in the people on this forum, are the evangelists for this game and we are at the core of it's continued success. That success still means a lot to Sony or they wouldn't use it to showcase their 8k TV's.

A penalty system will very likely be a part of GT7, so we may as well campaign for a better system while there is still time for them to make it happen, EVEN IF it doesn't materialize in GT Sport, although I think this is a perfect test bed for it.

Two interesting posts and thanks.

Your comments about unfair tuning hacks caught my eye and I wonder how prevalent this is within the racing community? I ask this because I started taking part in the online time trials (for non subscribers) when they were introduced a few months ago and was absolutely amazed how people were managing to complete a circuit so much quicker than anything I could possibly contemplate. I would push my 'identical' car to its absolute limits, yet when I loaded the ghost of another, it pulled away from me as if I was driving something with sugar in the tank. On corners, their car behaved like it was on rails, whereas mine would end up in the gravel at the same speeds.

I accept, without reservation, that my one years experience in GTS cannot possibly compete with the top drivers, but I do wonder whether we are all on a level playing field, given the excessive margins in timing I have seen?

Thoughts anyone?

Nick

If you take a completely stock car and do your best, then, you begin to make improvements to the car, you can probably gain as much as a second on your own best time.

There is often several seconds of time difference between the best players and more average players in the exact same car.

When you combine those two points, it's easy to see how much time can be gained by a good player who knows how to get the most out of a tune.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

If people are playing less, and there are people saying that the penalty system is the reason they are playing less, then that's a big deal because it speaks to future iterations.

Basically since about March 2018 it has been a constant that people have agreed in many cases the overall penalty system was better at initial launch than it has been since.
It was also about that time frame that players actually quit playing Sport Mode and listing the penalty system as their main reasoning for no longer participating.
How many "adjustments" has PD made since that time frame to the system and yet still the initial system in place at the start has yet to be bettered or actually even equaled?
If Sony or PD actually reads these forums and takes cues as to what to do with problems involving the game or what those playing desire they sure could have fooled me with how they have handled the penalty system fiasco of the last almost two years.
By what has been said within these very forums time and time again if they listened they would have at minimum just reverted back to the penalty system as it was at launch. It sure was no worse than what they are doing currently.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I posted the current state of the penalty system on reddit, maybe it will get some attention there


Other people are posting ridiculous penalties there as well
https://www.reddit.com/r/granturismo/new/

No clue how reddit works, stuff seems to get buried quickly lol.

 

[radici]

From what I've read on here, if you don't use Racing Hard tyres at some point in the race, you get a 20 second penalty. It's one of the race requirements

tnx
i really didn't see it, thanks a lot for the info
but they always threw on the tires they needed, not now like this in a hiding place

 

[NosOsH]

I say penalise any rear ender unless the front car started braking 75 metres too early.
Honestly I'd be ok with just any and all rear Ender's. Be damned with brake checkers, I've only had a handful of those in the thousands of other encounters I've had. If your following that closely behind you need to be sure you brake earlier or a little out of slipstream anyways. It should be the follower or passers responsibility to not hit other cars.

Also I wish they would cut the ignition and penalise those players right away as soon as the penalty occurs so they CAN NOT continue to harass other drivers. Penalty zones are fine but there should be other times a penalty could be served.

 

[Granadier]

I posted the current state of the penalty system on reddit, maybe it will get some attention there


Other people are posting ridiculous penalties there as well
https://www.reddit.com/r/granturismo/new/

No clue how reddit works, stuff seems to get buried quickly lol.

Thanks for write up. Upvoted.

It doesn’t make me feel any better about the system, but it’s nice to have a concise explanation of the reasons.

 

[Jagman XK8]

I was shunted, I left the track, I gained the penalty points and came last.

Sorry Sven, but I don't follow the logic.

I've been demoted from DR C to DR D at Autopolis this evening because of morons and I'm pretty fed up with the whole thing. These are all SR S drivers!!

It's a joke in my opinion.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

It's a joke in my opinion

In all of ours opinions, I believe.
Still, for me there is a balance between the bad penalty system and the good of racing with other people. Even with the bad penalty system I still look forward to racing. Stay out of Autopolis if you are above DR D, though

 

[Tea_Leaves]

Other people are posting ridiculous penalties there as well

I've noticed a rapid uptick of penalty posts over there lately when the bulk of topics are either livery designs, memes and newcomer questions (pulls a more casual crowd). That to me suggests this is a big deal and emphasizes furthermore there are problems with the current system.

No clue how reddit works, stuff seems to get buried quickly lol.

It's currently on the front page and will likely stay there for a few days if it continues receiving upvotes. I upvoted it and suggest others (with Reddit accounts) do the same. The more awareness, the better.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Basically since about March 2018 it has been a constant that people have agreed in many cases the overall penalty system was better at initial launch than it has been since.
It was also about that time frame that players actually quit playing Sport Mode and listing the penalty system as their main reasoning for no longer participating.
How many "adjustments" has PD made since that time frame to the system and yet still the initial system in place at the start has yet to be bettered or actually even equaled?
If Sony or PD actually reads these forums and takes cues as to what to do with problems involving the game or what those playing desire they sure could have fooled me with how they have handled the penalty system fiasco of the last almost two years.
By what has been said within these very forums time and time again if they listened they would have at minimum just reverted back to the penalty system as it was at launch. It sure was no worse than what they are doing currently.

It's all we've got. For some reason they believe that being easier on lower ranked drivers is the correct direction. Maybe they will see the light.

I was shunted, I left the track, I gained the penalty points and came last.

Sorry Sven, but I don't follow the logic.

I've been demoted from DR C to DR D at Autopolis this evening because of morons and I'm pretty fed up with the whole thing. These are all SR S drivers!!

It's a joke in my opinion.

Again, the SR ranking doesn't mean that you are a good driver. It's more an indication to you of how much risk there is in being demoted rather than the safety of other drivers.

It's been stated before, but I think it needs an immense amount of reinforcement, races with SR rankings below S will naturally be cleaner because players are in greater risk of losing their DR rank. Whereas, at SR S, you have leeway to be a d*ck.

It's misleading, yes, because everyone expects an SR S driver to denote that the driver is a clean player, but that is not the case. This, coupled with decreased SR impact at lower DR rankings, means that being a poor sport is completely acceptable to the system.

Their reliance on DR rank has gotten to a comical level. DR A+ races are hard fought, as they should be. It's not proper that, all of a sudden, those same drivers playing the exact same way, get penalized because a B player enters the room.

They need to get away from the concept of judgement, because even human beings get judgement wrong. They need to rely on cold hard facts. For instance, if someone is t-boned, one of those two drivers MUST be facing the wrong way. Whichever one is facing the wrong way MORE is to blame.

When someone performs a true dive bomb, their direction of travel would take them wide if it were not for the car they hit, that can be detected and penalized properly.



I don't know why they are going down this route. It's a terrible direction. Maybe, just maybe, they'll relieve the person in charge of this system and give it to someone else who sees the errors of the current system.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I had a lot of great races today, got a victory from 11th, a fastest lap of 7:59.4, two clean streaks of 4, yet also a haul of BS penalties.

The victory was handed to me thanks to the BS penalty system, I gladly took it after getting robbed of one twice earlier.

2nd place takes out first and crashes as well, 3rd clips 2nd and gets a penalty. So dumb.

My first solid chance of victory was robbed by the good old solid ghost bug

I guess, just as with resets on track and penalty serving cars, there is a split second of solid car when one reason for ghosting clears (being sideways or serving penalty) and the next engages (going too slow). That 2 sec penalty cost nearly 6 seconds, I finished 1.5 sec behind the leader.... A bug that's as old as the game I bet.

The other victory was robbed by the penalty system not working

Typical Brazilian dive bomb, no penalty for him, not for cutting the track twice, not for ramming me off the track into the wall, not for hitting the wall himself. (From the game's point of view, he was ahead at contact, we both went off, no penalty)

I should have expected it of course after he tried the contact, give me a penalty on the straight

Luckily I got no penalty in both incidents.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Sorry for double post in advance (don't want to run into media embed limit)

Here's one I could have prevented, although I had to get past these battling cars somehow

5 sec for me, all fine for the rammers. Slowing down was not an option with the car behind me.

The penalty system always seems obsessed with brake checks right?

Here I get a penalty for getting brake checked at the finish lol. It was a mistaken identity case, he was blaming me for something someone else did.

Also my fault of course, car tries to squeeze me off the road and only manages to turn my car into him

GTS: Thou shalt not pass simulator

And here is the nose sticker

He was doing that all race, of course no penalty for bad behavior.

I did have one deserved penalty today when I 'forgot' to brake to teach another "push you into the grass on the straight" driver a lesson. You get one free penalty at max SR, neutral S. One free punt per race, no wonder SR.S is more dirty.

 

[Redneckchef]

Yeah, @Sven Jurgens I know you like to race from the back but with the handle on this car there is so much of this going on. Last night I was stuck behind the pack that frustrated me all night when we hit the straight to finish lap 1. They go 3 wide and 2 wide so I get a monster draft up to them. As I can see they are varging all over I slow down for the expected chaos. Not enough. 1 gets right sides on the grass and it is bowling from there out. I keep it straight and mash it but the car coming back on from off the track wipes me out. 4 of us got penalties, ranging from 0.5 to 2 sec. 1 person quit. The guy who lost it and took everyone out cruised on ahead with no penalty. Something had gone horribly wrong with how they calculated something here.

 

[Krypton78]

I just wanted to mention an another point.

"Racing is for everybody"

Nice philosophy. But then you have to teach everybody how to race. Its not only the broken penalty system. Its the whole package which is broken since the very beginning 2 years ago.
All the offline conent, the driving school, missions and especially the GT
League- are mostly from last to first challenges: punting your way through the stupid AI by using its cars as brake assists.
Then they let us players with that mindset on each other and look what we'll do.

Why not making a licence system in the first place to have the permission for sportmode? Some kind of missions where you have to learn to give space, difference between divebomb and overtaking, handling slipstream+ cold tyres and so on.

Of course this wouldnt have helped against intentionally dirty drivers, but at least it would've been something.

Impossible to understand their ways.

 

[barak181]

Why not making a licence system in the first place to have the permission for sportmode? Some kind of missions where you have to learn to give space, difference between divebomb and overtaking, handling slipstream+ cold tyres and so on.

I love this idea.

 

[Granadier]

Lol, like that would solve anything I’d wager that 80-90% of the time these BS penalties occur they’re being caused by drivers who know exactly what they are doing, and do it anyways. At least in the B to A+ lobbies where these severe penalties are being handed out like candy.

Regardless; any increases to the severity of consequences levied for bad driving are null and void until the system that determines “bad driving” actually works right.

 

[NosOsH]

Let's just hope the flood of video complaints of late on all social media and forums has actually caused them to do something with this incoming update.
Been hoping that for every update though since probably May of 2018 hahahah.
It's probably something barely significant though, a hot fix for some car detail, maybe the option to turn back on the middle of the formula car's halo.

 

[KaiB]

I´m all up for two modes, simulation where no car ghost happens, real damage, this will teach people that when something in front of you happen you have to adjust your speed acordenly, what i see now in terms of that is just that people try to capitalize every time something happens leading to unfair penaltys cause of the rush and the contact that happens.

One of the problems like i state it and it´s only an opinion.., is that all kind of players are racing each other and that will lead to this chaos that is happening, last night FIA races was good example of that, i couldnt qualy even after give like a 4 sec gap cause people crash and than have no ideia or intentionaly try to ruin others experience, in the race the same thing, people that are slower try to capitalize in straights to slow all other people down in technical sectors, wich in the end shows the mentality overall of the lack of knowladge there is cause peolple ruin their races either by slowing and smashing all the other players.

I could finish in top 5 if real damage was on cause people just blocked and when serving penaltys had 0 respect and there where situations of 3 wide cars ghosting and i had to lift until they become solid with afraid of a bump, with real damage they just become slow and easier to overtake even if they try to block and ram they eventually have to pit and repair leaving the track free.

Forced rules have to be implement that in a long term will separate diferent kind of players.

I think it´s the best option cause the end FIA events have a goal that is to gather top players in events and 95% of the players will never end up there so only people that respect and know the rules and know how to race properly will play this mode, and in the end even fia events will have more quality overall cause people will have other mindset, everyone remembers that ugly super formula race what a joke.

Just make a simulation or name it Professional mode with it´s own rank.

Make a arcade mode with the rules that we have now with is own rank also cause the final result is that will be easier to grind in each rank cause people will focused mostly in the mode they enjoy more.

Penalty system will be only a complement instead of the main issue, damage make no mistakes and will facilitate all people lifes cause in real racing pilots have to adjust every time something happens in the track now peolple are just rockets that don´t care about racing and penaltys cause they only have to be served and people can continue at same speed with no further consequences.

Don´t need to make a big confusion since the mechanisms already exists ingame they just have to be forced or enforced don´t know the exact term.

 

[NosOsH]

Update has nothing to do with penalties...

Deep down I knew it, but I let myself believe this one time.
Never again

 

[larrybr07n]

Update has nothing to do with penalties...

Deep down I knew it, but I let myself believe this one time.
Never again

"Fixed an issue where even very slight contact or collisions were incurring a penalty."

To be seen how good it is, hopefully it's good.

 

[Solarflare]

I agree totally that the penalty system is seriously flawed, I've had many races where I have been penalised and its definitely not been my fault, the other day a car went off in front of me, rejoined sideways out of control, to boned me.... And I got a 5 second penalty!!!!! Massively frustrating, as I'm sure everyone has stories like this, and I also think there should be a simple, easy, straightforward way of saving the replay

 

[Kiki_Haoru]

I must admit that I got very frustrated with some penalties I recieved during Manu yesterday... After laughing at all the guys who are whining on this thread, I ended up very upset
Got the famous penalties for even the smallest of contacts (on Tokyo there will definitely be some rubbing). And got insane penalties when some guys in front of me couldn't take a corner properly and bounced on my after taping the walls.
Anyway... Let's see what PD has prepared for us in this update.

 

[Famine]

I must admit that I got very frustrated with some penalties I recieved during Manu yesterday... After laughing at all the guys who are whining on this thread, I ended up very upset
Got the famous penalties for even the smallest of contacts (on Tokyo there will definitely be some rubbing). And got insane penalties when some guys in front of me couldn't take a corner properly and bounced on my after taping the walls.
Anyway... Let's see what PD has prepared for us in this update.

I managed 42 seconds spread across four races, all from being hit into walls by other drivers*. My post-race shots were hilariously bad - I spent all that time on a nice IMSA RX-7 livery for my Mazda 6, and it looked like I'd been in a typhoon on Venus.

*Except for a four-second penalty that came about for no discernible reason when the car ahead of me missed his braking point for T1, lap 1. I can only assume I'd touched him earlier in the straight as we were three abreast (me on the right), and that constituted contact causing a collision.

 

[BaareCZ]

"Fixed an issue where even very slight contact or collisions were incurring a penalty."

To be seen how good it is, hopefully it's good.

It's probably just a switchback to an older version. Can't imagine they could've coded a new system in just 3 weeks. And I'm perfectly fine with that, anything is better than what we have now (or is it? ). At least now we know that PD actually pay attention and listen to the feedback. But it's most likely just because it has seriously affected even top split FIA races. I wonder how long it's gonna take people to find new holes in the system and exploit the 🤬 out of it. Can't wait for new example videos.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It's probably just a switchback to an older version. Can't imagine they could've coded a new system in just 3 weeks. And I'm perfectly fine with that, anything is better than what we have now (or is it? ). At least now we know that PD actually pay attention and listen to the feedback. But it's most likely just because it has seriously affected even top split FIA races. I wonder how long it's gonna take people to find new holes in the system and exploit the 🤬 out of it. Can't wait for new example videos.

From what the description says, it's a simple "if force of contact < x, ignore" you can code that in 5 seconds The question is, did they test it, does it help. We'll see. We are the beta testers.

(It sure won't fix getting dive bombed with the attacker going free leaving the victim with a penalty or many of the other examples where it assigns blame to the wrong car)

 

[Dorofint]

From what the description says, it's a simple "if force of contact < x, ignore" you can code that in 5 seconds The question is, did they test it, does it help. We'll see. We are the beta testers.

(It sure won't fix getting dive bombed with the attacker going free leaving the victim with a penalty or many of the other examples where it assigns blame to the wrong car)

I think the same thing. Even if the change works as intended, it only helps in some cases. But whether everything works as intended is not certain. All changes of the last 2 years gave the impression as if they had never been tested before the release.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I think the same thing. Even if the change works as intended, it only helps in some cases. But whether everything works as intended is not certain. All changes of the last 2 years gave the impression as if they had never been tested before the release.

At least they addressed the problem rather quickly! Bringing the problems to attention does help

 

[SmokeyMR2]

Guess some people may see that i did something wrong but i was fuming!🤬 ruined what would have been my highest FIA finish so far.

You did do something wrong, you dared to hold your line! Should have been 10 secs and another for actually trying to be respectful only joking bud. Can't see what else you could have done without just giving up the 2 positions which isn't right anyway. 👍