PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

djidane57
which part of the world contains the least dirty drivers in your opinion? I'm thinking about making another alt but out of EU for a change
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Did you seriously ask that? :rolleyes:

On topic, this is a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre now. On a positive it promoted me to third but I was hating being in front of such an unpredictable driver. They finished with a blue SR.

 
I don't think the previous system was better than this. Both are extremely bad equally. I think PD need to make the players realize that in real life every contact has consequences in motorsport. The harder the contact the harder the consequences. Just turn on damage. Just try it ffs. Let's see how long the idiots are gonna keep doing stupid moves if it ends their race every single time (and probably someone else's too unfortunately). Players like that need to fear contact. The players who want to race clean (but don't have enough experience yet) will learn and the dirty ones will stop playing eventually. Or their SR will drop because of quitting races and they will no longer bother players in SR S. It's a win either way. I think at this point it's at least worth a shot.
 
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Dorofint
The races are getting dirtier and cleaner at the same time. That sounds strange at first so I'll explain what I mean. Some drivers use the change to get really dirty now. I have seen many divebombs from far behind, brake tests and wild zigzags. For these drivers, the current rules are a wet dream. But once these drivers are gone, the races will be amazingly clean and considerate. It turns out that the majority of players want clean races. It is the dirty and over-motivated drivers that destroy everything. PD absolutely has to develop algorithms that can distinguish the rotten from the good apples. The SR rating is unsuitable for this. But the data from kudosprime alone clearly show the character of a player and PD certainly has more data available. Sort out the rotten apples, put them in their own race and the normal races for everyone else will be much better.
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That was my experience as well. Once the rotten apples got the message that people were no longer afraid to turn the tables on them, it got a lot cleaner. Being a bully and using your car as a wedge doesn't make people jump out of the way anymore since threatening with a BS penalty doesn't work anymore. Sure, there were plenty reckless moves and some dirty pushing, certainly near the finish. During the race it was actually a bit better without the fear of BS penalties dictating people's behavior. Bullies now actually have to work for an overtake instead of simply sticking their nose where the car ahead fears for a penalty.

Matchmaking improved as well, even the 1:30 am was still mostly A/S and B/S with only 1 D/S driver in it. Normally it's A to D with different SR levels.

Of course we still need rules, and Saturday will be the ultimate test whether this free for all leads to total anarchy. I just did the 7:30 am race, that guy was in there again, started 2nd, took out everyone who dared to get close. I started 8th (only 9 total) but went wide early, no coffee yet lol. I finished 3rd in the end, a second behind mr dirty. Too early to start a fight, I'm sure there will be plenty more encounters today :/ The rest of the people in the race stayed clean though, even admitted their mistakes and gave positions back. People want to drive clean and fair, it's a few rotten apples that need to get rid off.

Btw, I'm only racing on the Nord. The track itself is a penalty system. I can't imagine (or sadly can) what will happen on nice wide low risk tracks. Tokyo might not be that terrible due to wall penalties pulling back the idiots, or maybe it will be really bad if you can punt cars into walls and they receive the wall penalties. Next week Tsukaba without penalties!

Next week is already up, Sardegna B, DT: Seaside and Suzuka. Yeah, erm, we need the penalties back.
 
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PD needs to do what iRacing already does. Limit newbies and known troublemakers into entry level tracks and cars until they can prove they are good/clean enough to move up the ranks.

The fact that any yahoo can enter a particular car/track combo with zero experience is idiotic. This ‘let everyone play’ mentality is the reason I don’t touch Sport mode with a 10 foot pole.

And if they could prevent people from making duplicate/throwaway accounts that would be half the battle won.
 
cjr3559
PD needs to do what iRacing already does. Limit newbies and known troublemakers into entry level tracks and cars until they can prove they are good/clean enough to move up the ranks.

The fact that any yahoo can enter a particular car/track combo with zero experience is idiotic. This ‘let everyone play’ mentality is the reason I don’t touch Sport mode with a 10 foot pole.

And if they could prevent people from making duplicate/throwaway accounts that would be half the battle won.
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GTS is not iRacing. It sits between the full esport sim and the casual console gaming philosophies. It needs to remain open to the greater number of people (otherwise it just won't sell).
Why not try to open more daily races, with different sensitivities in the penalty system (from the most forgiving like we have now, to the most severe)? They have proven that they can set it up in a very wide spectrum, and custom lobbies already have options for it... This would maybe split the players in the gaming mode they prefer. It would maybe mess up a bit the SR system, but it already doesn't mean a lot.
 
Couple thoughts, near as I can tell in real racing when it’s time to be on track, drivers fight each other and do what they can to win.
What I am seeing at A level is that some of these people with some speed at A and B, but poor sr are now getting matched with drivers that know how to move them aside, and don’t take kindly to BS maneuvers.
Instead of those drivers being able to victimize much slower people in lower lobbies, now they have to fight with people who are far more capable of making them pay for their ignorance and poor etiquette, and take advantage of their mistakes.
The racing last night at B race was damn fun, because number one, matching times up and down the grid at S room. So, from lap one, even from midpack or further back, you don’t get stuck behind the lead so far, so if you have good pace, you can, even in just four laps pick up a lot of spots and gain Dr.
The TRULY dirty we’re getting taken out by other players, and the hard racers raced hard. I very much enjoyed being able to be aggressive and not get hit with ticky tack fouls.
I truly believe some of these people that have been sittting at the top of lower lobbies are now being matched better or more equally relative to their speed.
This new system plays into my overall strategy very well. I drive stable cars with TCS and I’m fully prepared to do some rubbin, or punting if they deserve it.
Real racing is pretty cutthroat from what I’ve heard, I already knew it was in karting, but as I shared with a friend last night, met a guy on a race team locally, and I specifically asked him about dirty racing, he IMMEDIATELY goes oh YEAH.
What he found interesting was that on track the drivers drove like complete jerks to each other, but off track and between teams in the paddock everyone was kind of a big family.
Pesoally,I had some good runs last night, so maybe I am in a honeymoon period, but I liked the racing.
If people can’t game a screwed up pen system then they will actually have to race, and I like my odds in races.
I can do an awful lot with the cars I choose and the settings in race with pretty much zero fear of getting pens?
I’m in!
The racing last night was super fun.
 
So he won the next race after ramming everyone out of the way. I wanted to take a crack at him but the American in 2nd wouldn't let me pass. I wasn't going to bump him out of the way, so settled for fastest lap instead. Now the room knows who they're up against, next race he'll have a target on his back. The regulars in the room are planning to take him out early.

Btw this is the one to look out for, terrorizing every race he enters
https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=1194725
 
BaareCZ
I don't think the previous system was better than this. Both are extremely bad equally. I think PD need to make the players realize that in real life every contact has consequences in motorsport. The harder the contact the harder the consequences. Just turn on damage. Just try it ffs. Let's see how long the idiots are gonna keep doing stupid moves if it ends their race every single time (and probably someone else's too unfortunately). Players like that need to fear contact. The players who want to race clean (but don't have enough experience yet) will learn and the dirty ones will stop playing eventually. Or their SR will drop because of quitting races and they will no longer bother players in SR S. It's a win either way. I think at this point it's at least worth a shot.
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The only issue with turning on damage is that say you get bumped from behind, wouldn’t both parties get effectively penalised with damage? What if an idiot driver spins in front of you, and you unavoidably smash into the side of them, I imagine front of car damage is more debilitating than side (or rear) of the car. So again the innocent party is penalised, and in the case potentially more than the reckless driver.

it will be extremely difficult for PD to implement a fair system, all we can hope for is in the main it mostly penalises the right person.
 
Started racing in B having uploaded the new update and saw an immediate reduction in penalty points awarded. I think it may be too forgiving and open the floodgates to reckless idiots in demolition mode. The penalty system needs to be more advanced in identifying the 'hitters', not merely reducing penalties, which adversely affect the good drivers. In my view, the latest update has achieved very little to deter bad driving and, in fact, it has managed to do just the opposite.

I think the comment from CJR3559 above is sound and makes perfect sense.

Nick
 
Sven Jurgens
So he won the next race after ramming everyone out of the way. I wanted to take a crack at him but the American in 2nd wouldn't let me pass. I wasn't going to bump him out of the way, so settled for fastest lap instead. Now the room knows who they're up against, next race he'll have a target on his back. The regulars in the room are planning to take him out early.

Btw this is the one to look out for, terrorizing every race he enters
https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=1194725
Click to expand...

That has got to be by far the worst Kudos stats I have ever seen. I couldnt even count the times hes been reset because of SR.
 
Dorofint
The races are getting dirtier and cleaner at the same time. That sounds strange at first so I'll explain what I mean. Some drivers use the change to get really dirty now. I have seen many divebombs from far behind, brake tests and wild zigzags. For these drivers, the current rules are a wet dream. But once these drivers are gone, the races will be amazingly clean and considerate. It turns out that the majority of players want clean races. It is the dirty and over-motivated drivers that destroy everything. PD absolutely has to develop algorithms that can distinguish the rotten from the good apples. The SR rating is unsuitable for this. But the data from kudosprime alone clearly show the character of a player and PD certainly has more data available. Sort out the rotten apples, put them in their own race and the normal races for everyone else will be much better.
Click to expand...

First off, I have maintained for a long time that most "dirty" moves are simply aggressive, in that they are no harm was meant even thought harm may have occurred. People like we are see now are the true dirty drivers, where their actions are completely malicious.

WE DO NOT NEED MORE ALGORITHMS!!!!! Algorithms are the problem!!! The reason this is all crap is because they are relying on algorithms instead of relying on a simply system.

If PD want to layer a few algorithms on top of a solid, consistent system, then ok. Add an algorithm to determine how much penalty time a shortcut should incur. Add an algorithm to determine additional time penalties and SR deductions for repeat offenders Stuff like that.


OK, look, we need to go back a few GT iterations. I don't remember if it was GT 5 or GT4, but one of those title had a colour changing racing line. It's important to highlight that this is occurred on older playstations, so computational power is not a limiting factor. If you recall, the line would change colour (from red to green IIRC) to indicate whether you were going too fast or too slow for that segment of track.

So, IF YOU WERE STOPPED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CORNER, the game would turn the line green to tell you to go. If you were going too fast on corner entry, the line would be bright red to tell you to slow down. The game CAN DETECT if you are acting accordingly for any portion of the track. Now, I may be slightly hypocritical because that is likely an algorithm, but it's not a judgement algorithm. It's just a small part that should be put to use in a larger system.

What happens if it's unintentional? Too bad!! I would much rather there be some bad luck edge cases then the garbage they are trying to implement.

I'm actually insulted. I am insulted by what PD is doing. It is an insult to the discipline of game development.


The other day I posted a comment on the activity feed that this (as in 1.53) was the worst penalty implementation so far and that I could not see how they could make it worse. PD must have read that and said "hold my beer".
 
I think if you have troubles and wanna rely solely on the game to right every wrong, you will have a hard time.
If you know how to race, and control your car, you take responsibility for yourself.
Everyone’s under the same system.

To those folks complaining...
 
Voodoovaj
First off, I have maintained for a long time that most "dirty" moves are simply aggressive, in that they are no harm was meant even thought harm may have occurred. People like we are see now are the true dirty drivers, where their actions are completely malicious.

WE DO NOT NEED MORE ALGORITHMS!!!!! Algorithms are the problem!!! The reason this is all crap is because they are relying on algorithms instead of relying on a simply system.

If PD want to layer a few algorithms on top of a solid, consistent system, then ok. Add an algorithm to determine how much penalty time a shortcut should incur. Add an algorithm to determine additional time penalties and SR deductions for repeat offenders Stuff like that.


OK, look, we need to go back a few GT iterations. I don't remember if it was GT 5 or GT4, but one of those title had a colour changing racing line. It's important to highlight that this is occurred on older playstations, so computational power is not a limiting factor. If you recall, the line would change colour (from red to green IIRC) to indicate whether you were going too fast or too slow for that segment of track.

So, IF YOU WERE STOPPED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CORNER, the game would turn the line green to tell you to go. If you were going too fast on corner entry, the line would be bright red to tell you to slow down. The game CAN DETECT if you are acting accordingly for any portion of the track. Now, I may be slightly hypocritical because that is likely an algorithm, but it's not a judgement algorithm. It's just a small part that should be put to use in a larger system.

What happens if it's unintentional? Too bad!! I would much rather there be some bad luck edge cases then the garbage they are trying to implement.

I'm actually insulted. I am insulted by what PD is doing. It is an insult to the discipline of game development.


The other day I posted a comment on the activity feed that this (as in 1.53) was the worst penalty implementation so far and that I could not see how they could make it worse. PD must have read that and said "hold my beer".
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I really hate it when idiots like you think it’s ok to basically slander an entire game studio because of a small issue
They worked really hard to make this work and it’s not easy. Then people like you come in and tear them all to shreds
I understand the Penalty System is broken, but don’t use that as an excuse to threaten an entire studio. Try making a game yourself and see how hard implementing a fully working penalty system is before you assume you are smarter and better than game developers. You aren’t.
 
Next race, same thing, he started ramming and brake checking again but we managed to get him early. He fell to the back, ran out of people to ram and messed around in the pit for the rest of the race hitting walls. He actually got a red S that race, pit wall SR Down still works I guess. He's at 92 SR now, will be back next race. Perhaps I should qualify, aim to start right behind him to get him early :/
 
cjr3559
And if they could prevent people from making duplicate/throwaway accounts that would be half the battle won.
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I agree. For example a correctly working penalty system. That would prevent me immediately. 👍

mark72meg
The only issue with turning on damage is that say you get bumped from behind, wouldn’t both parties get effectively penalised with damage? What if an idiot driver spins in front of you, and you unavoidably smash into the side of them, I imagine front of car damage is more debilitating than side (or rear) of the car. So again the innocent party is penalised, and in the case potentially more than the reckless driver.
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So just like real life then. If it eventually gets rid of the idiots then I'm up for that.

DriftShock
I really hate it when idiots like you think it’s ok to basically slander an entire game studio because of a small issue
They worked really hard to make this work and it’s not easy. Then people like you come in and tear them all to shreds
I understand the Penalty System is broken, but don’t use that as an excuse to threaten an entire studio. Try making a game yourself and see how hard implementing a fully working penalty system is before you assume you are smarter and better than game developers. You aren’t.
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You don't know who he is, do you BOY? I smell a :censored:storm coming. :lol:

Kiki_Haoru
Why not try to open more daily races, with different sensitivities in the penalty system (from the most forgiving like we have now, to the most severe)? They have proven that they can set it up in a very wide spectrum, and custom lobbies already have options for it... This would maybe split the players in the gaming mode they prefer. It would maybe mess up a bit the SR system, but it already doesn't mean a lot.
Click to expand...

Yes please, I'll have some of that. 👍
 
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BaareCZ
I agree. For example a correctly working penalty system. That would prevent me immediately. 👍



So just like real life then. If it eventually gets rid of the idiots then I'm up for that.



You don't know who he is, do you? I smell a :censored:storm coming. :lol:
Click to expand...


The point I was making is that everybody probably wouldn’t be happy with this damage system either. I get that it’s more like real life, but if the penalty system was penalising the wrong person to now penalising both parties, that isn’t better in my view.

but I would prefer them to at least try it, it’s got to be better than this!
 

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