PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!
- Thread starter Gareth davies
- 6,543 comments
- 447,225 views
- 582
- Toronto
LOL, they worked hard on this penalty system? Do you have any proof to support that?
- 1,174
- Phoenix, AZ
- MonyB
You don't know who he is, do you BOY? I smell a :censored:storm coming.
Well, I mean they have a penalty system. So, there's that...
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Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
DriftShock
(Banned)
- 190
- Carlton, East Yorkshire
- GSRT_MiraiNG
- GAMERSWORLDxX
All this thread has basically summed up is everyone’s mental age
All I said is the penalty system is broken but the developer still put a lot of work into it.
The fact I can get insulted for having a different opinion sums up the problem with this forum
That and the mods never do anything about it
Why I even bothered signing up to this server I have no idea. Not why we can’t delete our accounts either
All I said is the penalty system is broken but the developer still put a lot of work into it.
The fact I can get insulted for having a different opinion sums up the problem with this forum
That and the mods never do anything about it
Why I even bothered signing up to this server I have no idea. Not why we can’t delete our accounts either
- 87,235
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
The first sentence of your first contribution started off like this:
I haven't seen anyone insulting you back despite that provocation.
Given that you also made a post today that started "OK boomer", as if that insult (aimed at a 36-year old, some 20 years too young to be a Boomer) helps advance intelligent discussion in any way, you probably don't want me doing something about it other than what I did - which was to delete it.
And you pontificate about 'the problem with this forum'...
Your call.
killerjimbag
(Banned)
- 4,018
- The Great White North
- abetterplaya
You don't have to come here. Don't worry obviously PD took all the advice posted here and fixed the problem. Great work PD.
- 724
- Germany
- GTRP_Krypto_
The actual "adjustment" of penalty system is pretty interesting:
Firstival, they actually can regulate the given penalty depending on contact force quite quick and easy. This should be an obvious thing in the first place, but we can never know what they can do and cannot do tbh.
Second, unfortunately, they have no feeling for this adjustment. No penaltys except of track limits, which has been such a big big problem
Matchmaking may be a nice sideeffect that everybody gains SR 99 now, but I'd rather race with DR/D who try to stay clean then DR/A or DR/B which have a Kudosprime SR-curve like this guy mentioned in previous posts.
I'm quite sure, PD can change anything and could it even make work. If you put the good things of several previous versions together we actually would have some kind of a proper system.
Buuuut, its not their lack of knowledge, it is their philosophy grown out of the construction of sportmode which is wrong in the first place. They need desperately as many players participating as possible, no matter how crap sportmen theiy are, because otherwise they wouldn't have the prestige/ political power (don't know how to call it tbh) to justify FIA certification and live events and so on. Low harsh penaltys in lower DR splits in any penalty system version is an indiction for this philosophy also. They want anybody. Even in live events, what have they let through without punishing! "Let them race, give no penaltys, we need the crowd screaming!" is their philosophy probably also.
But this is so shortminded. By letting these "players" participate, you lose 10 times more fair players in the end.
Impossible to understand PD.
Firstival, they actually can regulate the given penalty depending on contact force quite quick and easy. This should be an obvious thing in the first place, but we can never know what they can do and cannot do tbh.
Second, unfortunately, they have no feeling for this adjustment. No penaltys except of track limits, which has been such a big big problem
Matchmaking may be a nice sideeffect that everybody gains SR 99 now, but I'd rather race with DR/D who try to stay clean then DR/A or DR/B which have a Kudosprime SR-curve like this guy mentioned in previous posts.
I'm quite sure, PD can change anything and could it even make work. If you put the good things of several previous versions together we actually would have some kind of a proper system.
Buuuut, its not their lack of knowledge, it is their philosophy grown out of the construction of sportmode which is wrong in the first place. They need desperately as many players participating as possible, no matter how crap sportmen theiy are, because otherwise they wouldn't have the prestige/ political power (don't know how to call it tbh) to justify FIA certification and live events and so on. Low harsh penaltys in lower DR splits in any penalty system version is an indiction for this philosophy also. They want anybody. Even in live events, what have they let through without punishing! "Let them race, give no penaltys, we need the crowd screaming!" is their philosophy probably also.
But this is so shortminded. By letting these "players" participate, you lose 10 times more fair players in the end.
Impossible to understand PD.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
I did it, won the jackpot. 2 sec penalty for forcing another car off the road
Luckily when it works it still gets it wrong
Luckily when it works it still gets it wrong
- 828
- United Kingdom
If you turn his SR graph upside down it looks like what most people try to achieve!
- 3,816
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
I was in games from 1995 to 2015, then I took a stint teaching until 2018. I was at DICE from 2001 to 2006, I played a significant role in the development 5 BF titles in that time as well as a bunch of behind the scenes stuff. After that was a succession of projects where I was called on to try and fix other people's broken designs. It burned me out and I threw in the towel (hence the teaching). I (literally) got too old to keep doing it.
I worked on SNES, Sega Genesis, Gameboy, Gameboy Color, Gameboy Advance, PS 1, 2, 3, Dreamcast, Xbox, Xbox 360, PC, and an SNK handheld that I don't remember the name of...I might have forgotten some in there.
Idiots like me actually have a good idea of how to tackle this problem, I just happen to be one idiot that frequents this forum.
Idiot is your word. I would rather use my own words....they, and I, and not idiots. However, they are heading down a very bad direction and they are succumbing to the sunk cost phenomenon, where in they have so much time and effort invested in their current direction that they would rather continue sinking time and effort into this bad direction rather than rethink it and and redo it.
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- 662
- New Jersey
They are giving out Clean Race Bonuses now like candy on Halloween.
"Penalty? What penalty?"
"Penalty? What penalty?"
- 483
- London
Read the post thoroughly, and discuss the points. Elaborate more. Opinions and facts don't have the same category.
- 2,002
- Ludwigsburg
- RocketJoe1-61
Here's where PD adjusts the severeness of penalization ...
- 18
- Poland
- SirCorwinek
I would like to focus on last sentence. I was playing FIFA my whole life.
After every game edition since FIFA 14 I thought that it can't get any worst. Every single time EA prove me that I am wrong. They can. For the first time since 1997 I didn't bought FIFA this year.
If You think that it can't get any words I can assure You it can. I can even write few scenarios but I don't wanna too.
Before last 2 updates everyone was talking that system need to be changed, PD changed it and players were complaining about too many penalties for nothing.
Players said it can't get any worst. But we got new update and it is.
If you think they can't messed it up more. You are just naive.
They can. But more important and interesting thing for me is one question...
Japanese discovered whole Toyota improvement mechanism called Kaizen. It's based on old samurais Rinzai Zen philosophy. It's mostly about small changes and seeing what that change brings.
But as ex-IT manager and specialist I can't understand one thing. Is there any1 on Polyphony who TEST the changes they make in game code? Becouse it took about 3 minutes in race to test that penalties does not work as it should.
If we sees something like that in game we can assume that noone is testing changes before they post it to our beloved game. That's concerning and looking bad.
If they would make even small players group as beta testers it will make path to implementing new patch maybe few days or week longer but they could avoid mistakes like that. If they would that their game in 1 race before implementing that update they would avoid that mess as well.
Polyphony are You big and wise game developer or just some newbie programmers that create a game during programming week?
What about golden circle from development books? Figure out what needs improvement, thing how to achieve Your goal, implement it, test it in closed enviroment, see how it works and if You achieve your goal of not. Repeat it untill it's at least not worst as it was. Then You can implement change from testing enviroment to production or to game.
It makes Polyphony looks like bunch of amateurs not big game dev company.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
I reset my SR/DR with the drive back and forth strategy, now at D/E. I'm too curious to see if there's anyone left in SR.E not to do it Should be back to SR.S soon anyway
Should be back to SR.S soon anyway - 2,208
- United Kingdom
- breeminator
- breeminator
I feel I should clarify what I've said in the past. I've said it can't be easy to make a really good penalty system because nobody has done it, and I stand by this. However, it being as bad as it is, is incompetence. A software developer with the right skills should be able to do much better than the current system. Maybe they just don't have anyone with the right skills, developing the penalty system is a completely different skill to developing graphical effects, for example. My experience is that, on average, you'd be better off giving a job like the penalty system to a developer with a maths or physics background rather than someone who did a computer science degree. There are individual variations within that, but the kind of thinking required is maths type logical thinking - some people who did a computer science degree will have the right brain for it, but it will be more common to find it in people who did a maths or physics degree.
From yesterday's races, all SR S. Witnessed 3 murders, the last one being my own (tbf they apologised afterwards).
Maybe I'm an outlier here but I rather they revert back to the old version and dare I say it, go even harsher. If the goal is to promote zero contact then IMO all contact big or small should be penalised, and thus eventually weeding out the good racers from the bad. For me the only BS I didn't like was if someone loses it and goes off track by themselves but another player tags them before they do, then that player gets slapped with a hefty penalty. To that I'd say perhaps ghost cars sooner if its direction angle vastly deviates from the racing line.
Then again PD doesn't read any of this so what we do know, right?
(tbf they apologised afterwards).Maybe I'm an outlier here but I rather they revert back to the old version and dare I say it, go even harsher. If the goal is to promote zero contact then IMO all contact big or small should be penalised, and thus eventually weeding out the good racers from the bad. For me the only BS I didn't like was if someone loses it and goes off track by themselves but another player tags them before they do, then that player gets slapped with a hefty penalty. To that I'd say perhaps ghost cars sooner if its direction angle vastly deviates from the racing line.
Then again PD doesn't read any of this so what we do know, right?
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
If you think about it maybe it is definitely better to match this way.
Theoretically you’ll end up with less B or C getting matching in which there’s no chance to win since a couple A were dirty and got put in a lower room for free wins.
The dirty ones will have to deal with the results of their behavior amongst their peers, instead of racking up a couple easy wins and back to go be dirty again in higher rooms.
If this setup continues it does have benefits.
Theoretically you’ll end up with less B or C getting matching in which there’s no chance to win since a couple A were dirty and got put in a lower room for free wins.
The dirty ones will have to deal with the results of their behavior amongst their peers, instead of racking up a couple easy wins and back to go be dirty again in higher rooms.
If this setup continues it does have benefits.
- 18
- Poland
- SirCorwinek
As You know physics engine in Gran Turismo is rly good, so they got developers that know how physics works, same as they got IT specialist. It's not big idea to get frames of how penalty system should work. Even I can make such draft by using existing (prev version) of penalty system.
For me most important part of our actual issues is that it seams that noone is even tryin to test changes before releasing them. That's kinda amateur approach.
For example of tweaking existing system. If you got contact but after 1-2 sec after contact there is no position change or high difference of speed between what it was before contact - no penalty.
They got system like that to check ignoring track limits. It requires to be connected to collision system.
Next part. If 1 car is sliding across the track is positioned not in direction of track and 2nd car will hit it - no penalty.
If there was contact and speed of 1 car is much slower than it was before it or it forced changing direction of driving that is not same as direction of track and player lost time - penalty.
I can write lots of examples how to tweak old system becouse it's just a simple if --> then. You need to consider 3 things. Speed difference before and after contact, car positioning and time gap between cars. It's not so hard, but PD is not trying to work any idea how to change it. For me it looks like they are like lost kids in the foggy forest.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
As I thought SR.E is indeed empty. I reset my SR by driving back and forth which still triggers SR Down
Doing that all race put me at 1 SR (and unfortunately 3000 DR)
The first race I got matched with two SR.C rest SR.B and SR.A. No SR.E or SR.D left to match with.
This were the first 4 grids I got matched with
The races were all clean except the last one was pretty messy at the start.
The DR reset screwed me though, now I'm getting matched with far slower players. I'm pulling over to give 2nd the win or stay behind him, doesn't feel fair. The first race I screwed up, entered the pit, still easily caught up again lol
Fun to feel like an alien but also feels like I'm being an ass running circles around the field and pitting to show off :/
SR is going up quick, DR is what's going to take a while, even finishing second every race
3000 D 1 E
5656 C 30 C
6784 C 47 B
7446 C 57 B
8259 C 66 A
9016 C 76 A
11599 B 87 S
12624 B 98 S
Next one loading
And yep, all those races were cleaner than max SR.S lol.
Doing that all race put me at 1 SR (and unfortunately 3000 DR)
The first race I got matched with two SR.C rest SR.B and SR.A. No SR.E or SR.D left to match with.
This were the first 4 grids I got matched with
The races were all clean except the last one was pretty messy at the start.
The DR reset screwed me though, now I'm getting matched with far slower players. I'm pulling over to give 2nd the win or stay behind him, doesn't feel fair. The first race I screwed up, entered the pit, still easily caught up again lol
Fun to feel like an alien but also feels like I'm being an ass running circles around the field and pitting to show off :/
SR is going up quick, DR is what's going to take a while, even finishing second every race
3000 D 1 E
5656 C 30 C
6784 C 47 B
7446 C 57 B
8259 C 66 A
9016 C 76 A
11599 B 87 S
12624 B 98 S
Next one loading
And yep, all those races were cleaner than max SR.S lol.
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- 95
- Nottingham
I’d be amazed if there is anyone left at SR A or lower after a couple of days. I’ve seen the videos you guys are posting. You would have to deliberately cut every corner to get demoted now.I reset my SR/DR with the drive back and forth strategy, now at D/E. I'm too curious to see if there's anyone left in SR.E not to do it
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
It is still possible to get a contact penalty, but very rare, 1 in 100 chance maybe.
Quitting still costs 5 SR
Hitting the pit wall still costs 3
And driving back and forth costs 3 per SR Down
So just playing, the only people in lower SR are those that have not played yet since the patch. Which supports my observation that the lower SR ranks are now definitely cleanest since those still there haven't caught on yet that penalties are disabled
- 2,208
- United Kingdom
- breeminator
- breeminator
- 2,521
- Scotland
- stpatty
I don't get the appeal of playing the game this way.
