People think GT5 will ship with 800 cars. Things could get ugly.

[TeamStig]

That is a massive exception. For everyone to think we can pay 60 bucks and keep getting upgrades, tracks, cars and features for free then there is some major flaws in your logic.

Sony wants to make money. That is it.

Maybe Sony will take a page from GTPLanet's play book and make us watch "double pits to chesty" commercials ove and over.

I'm talking about a subscription on a regular basis. As far as I know, no game on a home console requires a subscription to play except for a few massive online RPGs.

I don't expect the DLC to be free, either.

 

[felix2107]

If this game is half of what is built up on this forum I'm sure I'm not the only one willing to pay $100 at drop and then pony up for every DLC from here on out. So number of cars and price aside, they know we want it and they know we will pay for it....what ever IT is.

Side note: Can someone assure me when the heavens do open and we are finally playing, will this current Gran Turismo 5 forum be replaced with a new clean forum. I don't want to sift through all this speculation to get to facts.

 

[FLASH48]

I really don't care how many cars we start with! The reason for that is, i'm going to buy the Collectors Edition or what every it will be called!!

 

[Dave A]

I don't see why it would, like the GT4 forum all the pre-release speculative threads will just stop being posted in and gradually disspear to the back pages of the forum.

As for the DLC I don't see a subscription service on the cars, Sony saw the backlash against GT:HD Classic and they pulled the plug. They won't risk that level of backlash on a fully fledged premium title like GT5. MNo doubt GT5's DLC won't be free, but I don't see any reason it won't be charged for in small packs like DLC is now. Sony will not be able to chage wat they want, because as much as people want it a large portion of people will not spend over the odds and an even larger portion of people can't afford to. If people were being asked for top prices for the game then the total sales would take a dramatic hit. DLC is a market and it is being exploited as it is. People are already paying well over the odds for DLC content, prices like 10 cars for £5 are providing bi profit margins in a market that developers and publishers couldn't until not so long ago. Borders will be pushed but Sony would be foolish to use a flagship title to test the waters for a controversial pricing/subscription structure. They planned on testing the waters with GTHD Classic, but the backlash was so strong it never got moving.

 

[Black Chamber]

I don't even see it as a possibility for GT5 to ship on disc with 800+ cars like GT Mobile will and I don't even need my time machine to know that. GT Mobile having 800 cars is not as hard to do compared to GT5 because car models take much less time to create and it has many less modes.

You know it's possible to squeeze 800 vehicles onto a 1.8 GB PSP UMD, but you think it's impossible to fit 800+ vehicles onto a 50 GB Dual-Layer Blu-Ray Disc?

I thought this was a joke topic, but apparently you are serious.

I have no doubt that Gran Turismo 5 will feature over 800 cars - possibly over 1,000.

 

[Dave A]

You know it's possible to squeeze 800 vehicles onto a 1.8 GB PSP UMD, but you think it's impossible to fit 800+ vehicles onto a 50 GB Dual-Layer Blu-Ray Disc?

I thought this was a joke topic, but apparently you are serious.

I have no doubt that Gran Turismo 5 will feature over 800 cars - possibly over 1,000.

That's not what he said. He quite clearly calified himselve when he commented that car models in GTSP take considerably less time to make than the cars in GT5 do, and he's right. Each car in GT5 takes a lot of man hours to make, a hell of a lot. It's not a question of how many you can fit onto the disk, it's how many you can model in time to put into the game at launch.

I suggest you read peoples posts before attempting to sound smart .

 

[Leadfoot53]

That's not what he said. He quite clearly calified himselve when he commented that car models in GTSP take considerably less time to make than the cars in GT5 do, and he's right. Each car in GT5 takes a lot of man hours to make, a hell of a lot. It's not a question of how many you can fit onto the disk, it's how many you can model in time to put into the game at launch.

I suggest you read peoples posts before attempting to sound smart .

I think they would have had enough time to model the cars... They have been working on GT5 since GT4 was released! They didn't have every single person working on GTPSP

 

[Black Chamber]

That's not what he said. He quite clearly calified himselve when he commented that car models in GTSP take considerably less time to make than the cars in GT5 do, and he's right. Each car in GT5 takes a lot of man hours to make, a hell of a lot. It's not a question of how many you can fit onto the disk, it's how many you can model in time to put into the game at launch.

I suggest you read peoples posts before attempting to sound smart .

Oh, but I am smart.

You see, this game has been in the works for almost 5 years - that's plenty of time to design, model and texture 800 vehicles for a PlayStation 3 game. Also, fitting that number of vehicles onto a Dual-Layer Blu-Ray disc is not a problem, even with all the other data [track data, sound effects, music, etc.].

I would think the average gamer would find it harder to believe that Polyphony Digital managed to include 800 vehicles in a PSP game, rather than hearing they that they included that same number in a PS3 game.

But maybe that's just me.

I mean, it is a PSP game after all and 800 cars is no slouch in terms of sheer numbers - in fact, it's astounding that they were able to do this. I also think they will astound us again when they announce the vehicle count in Gran Turismo 5 for the PS3.

 

[Dave A]

No, but they estimate it takes 6 months worth of man hours for each car, that's with one hell of a lot of work to get several hundered cars, let alone close to 1000. PD have arond 150 staff, I don't know exactly how many of thoes work on the cars but a fair few will be modellers and artists, say 60 people working on the cars. That's 60 cars every 6 months. That's 120 cars a year. 600 cars over 5 years. PD also have to model the tracks, they arn't done overnight either.

The safe bet if to put a figure between 5-600, PD could suprise us all and actually have 800+ ready for launch, but to figure that as an almost definite is more likely an avenue to dissapointment imo.

800+ cars in the PS game is nothing when you already have GT4's catalogue of car models to descale. Thast doesn't leave many actual new models to be made for the game. I think the majority of time spent on GTSP has been on the game engine and getting it optomised for the PSP.

 

[Black Chamber]

I think everyone will be pleased and in some cases surprised when the final vehicle count is revealed [hopefully soon].

800+ vehicles isn't out of the question - at least not to me. Every iteration of the Gran Turismo series has more vehicles than it's predecessor and this time they have the Blu-Ray storage medium to work with, so space isn't a problem.

Yes, time is - but after 5 years I know they have over 600 vehicles completed. Do I work there? No. Do I know Kazunori Yamauchi personally? No.

But I have followed this series since it's inception and I know that PD will always surprise and delight it's fans with astounding content and tons and tons of vehicles to drive.

 

[Dave A]

800 cars isn't out of the question, but to try and make someone sound daft for saying it's unlikely is not cool. To do it by twisitng what they said is lesds cool. I know you meant to sound tongue in cheek but taking what he said and then making out he said something else didn't sit well with me that's all. I figure you didn't mean anything though and you haven't responded like someone who's heads up thier rear so that's dropped.

I agree that 800 cars isn't out of the question and I hope you are right, but it's by no means a certaintly and people who are putting forwards thier opinions that it will be less (which I might add is something Kaz has hinted at, though not recently) arn't being daft for thinking that.

 

[Punknoodle]

If the glorified demo can have 70 cars, I'm sure we will not be disappointed on the amount of cars when it comes to the full version.

 

[Smoke&Slide]

Maybe although very unlikly, many people haven't been let down with previous GTs so i think only few things will be missing not to be a major problem with the game.

 

[Black Chamber]

Of course I want there to be 800+ cars - and over 1,000 would be unquestionably amazing.

What I really, REALLY want is dynamic weather changes. Just imagine this:

You are in cockpit view, and everything is going fine. You are in 4th place, and there are 8 more laps to go. All of a sudden, the sky darkens and a heavy rain begins to pour onto your race. The rain is beating down so hard, even your windshield wipers at full strength can barely wipe enough water away to clear your view completely. You switch off the car radio [hopefully, this is possible during a race] - so that you can concentrate on the sounds around you in the game, to focus on not careening off the road in an unalterable slide that will end your race, as well as damage your car.

You have the Logitech G27 wheel and all the lights are off in your play area - it's just you, the wheel and GT5. The LCD TV is the only thing your eyes are focused on and the rain is breathtakingly realistic. The sky is a dark, gloomy gray with darker, charcoal colored accents. The wind is blowing feverishly across the tarmac. You are in 4th place and you have just left the pit area with your new rain tires - pushing about a bucket worth of water out from under you every second. Your hands grip the wheel - the leather feels good under your grip. You try and relax, realizing that it will take only a little mistake to make things go terribly awry. You need to concentrate. You need to focus and you realize at this exact moment that Gran Turismo 5 has just become the greatest racing game ever made. Period.

Will you make it? Will the other cars pit after you so you can overtake them clean? Or will you have to slug it out around each corner and chicane to battle your way to victory?

Ahh! This is what I think about when the subject of rain is brought up in GT5 discussions.

I really want dynamic weather in GT5!

 

[Zer0]

With "only" 600 cars, GT5 would get slated by many reviewers simply because it would then be "smaller" than GT4.

So true! just look at GT2 vs GT3, oh wait...

 

[TeamStig]

800+ vehicles isn't out of the question - at least not to me. Every iteration of the Gran Turismo series has more vehicles than it's predecessor and this time they have the Blu-Ray storage medium to work with, so space isn't a problem.

GT3 had less cars than GT2 did.

Keep in mind that this is the first game in the series on the PS3, that it takes six months to model a single car, that only a fraction of PD's 110 employees actually model cars, and that GT5 has been in development for 4-5 years.

Add all of this together and I don't see how you can expect 800+ cars in GT5.

 

[Black Chamber]

GT3 had less cars than GT2 did.

Keep in mind that this is the first game in the series on the PS3, that it takes six months to model a single car, that only a fraction of PD's 110 employees actually model cars, and that GT5 has been in development for 4-5 years.

Add all of this together and I don't see how you can expect 800+ cars in GT5.

Actually, Polyphony Digital has 150+ people that have been working on GT5 for over 5 years.

The model data for most of these cars was already done a while ago with GT4. Polyphony Digital made advanced models of each car and then tweaked them in respect to the PS2's abilities [resolution, textures and L.O.D. bias]. The PS2 is obviously far, far behind the PS3 in all aspects, so the models had to be scaled down to the appropriate polygon count to allow for everything needed to draw each frame of the screen at all times. Now, with the PS3, they can utilize the full models of all the cars they have been creating over the years. They have files, folders and literally thousands of documents that they keep for every car they create - and they update them as new developments arise to keep each game as up-to-date as possible in the areas of car design, handling, physics and after market parts.

Remember, Kazunori Yamauchi said this: "All the cars from GT4 will be in GT5".

GT4 had 700 vehicles - right? Well that means GT5 will have 700 vehicles also. Incidentally, that's not even including NASCAR, since GT4 didn't have that mode - or the WRC - which allows PD to include even more vehicles specific to the license. Then take into account the GTPSP connectivity with GT5. With that, any car you unlock in GTPSP can be unlocked in GT5. Well, there are 800 vehicles in GTPSP, so there has to be at least those same 800 in GT5 [not even counting the other exclusives, the NASCAR vehicles and the WRC license exclusives].

With Bugatti, Lamborghini, Ferrari and other manufactures that have yet to be announced - yes, I firmly believe that Gran Turismo 5 will have over 800 vehicles in the game.

 

[maulreize]

I have to agree with the prevailing thought that the game wont be released with 800+ cars out of the box. DLC is just too valuable a medium for Sony. If you believe (that cryptic guy who talks about reunions and skyways) there will be a couple SKUs of the game. If so the best money is usually paid upfront, rather than drawn out micro-transactions that milk you for more money in the long run. I say 550 cars plus WRC and NASCAR+DLC.

 

[TeamStig]

Actually, Polyphony Digital has 150+ people that have been working on GT5 for over 5 years.

Sorry. My bad.

The model data for most of these cars was already done a while ago with GT4. Polyphony Digital made advanced models of each car and then tweaked them in respect to the PS2's abilities [resolution, textures and L.O.D. bias]. The PS2 is obviously far, far behind the PS3 in all aspects, so the models had to be scaled down to the appropriate polygon count to allow for everything needed to draw each frame of the screen at all times. Now, with the PS3, they can utilize the full models of all the cars they have been creating over the years. They have files, folders and literally thousands of documents that they keep for every car they create - and they update them as new developments arise to keep each game as up-to-date as possible in the areas of car design, handling, physics and after market parts.

Remember, Kazunori Yamauchi said this: "All the cars from GT4 will be in GT5".

Where did you hear this? I thought all of the cars models were made from scratch specifically for GT5. I also didn't know about that quote from KY. I'm not doubting you but if what you're saying is true this is great news.

 

[IsmokeGT]

Kaz also said it takes 3 months to model a car, not 6.

 

[vannardini]

Well, I also heard 6 months per car, and 1 year per track.

But if they had time to model 600 cars, then SURELY we'll have over 800 cars.
You can already count 50+ Skylines R34, 40+ RX7s, and I bet we'll have a WHOLE bunch of GTRs either, PD loves to make us buy the same car just to have a different name on our garage

 

[sesselpupser]

Sony and/or PD know how important GT5 will be, there's no way they'll release it with less content than GT PSP; if they did they might as well shoot themselves in the foot or start developing for Turn 10...

I mean really, are there that many people who think Sony would hold back content for a AAA title like this just to release it as DLC on the day of release? Maybe for a cheap PSN release like Pain, but for a system seller? Consoles and copies of GT5 will be more profitable to them than DLC, and the better the game is, the more profitable. On the other hand, if they were to deliberately cripple what is possibly the most highly anticipated game the PS3 has right now just so they have some DLC, they would be so very slated by the gaming press and gamers themselves that they'd be lucky to ever recover from it!

I have faith in Sony to not do something so ridiculously stupid as that, they haven't done with any of their previous AAA releases so far so why start now? Especially as they could release the game with all the cars PD have finished at the time, wait for the next motor show or go into their back catalogue of games and find more cars to model for further DLC - I bet neither the 458 Italia nor the Espace F1 will be in GT5, for example...

 

[shawndre]

prologues file size was under 2GB. it featured 70 cars and 5 tracks. I am really thinking they are going to use a 50GB disc and are gonna fill it to the brim. I'm betting a minimum of 1000 cars and 100 tracks. PD is gonna go all out this time! Its going to be epic!

 

[sesselpupser]

Polyphony Digital made advanced models of each car and then tweaked them in respect to the PS2's abilities [resolution, textures and L.O.D. bias]

This, possibly. It would make sense, I really doubt they model cars with a number of polygons in mind. To make as detailed a model as possible and then scale it down is the most sensible idea, especially as the fully detailed models can be used in pre-rendered video, cover art, adverts and the like.

Also, to those who say it takes x number of months to model a car-

• Where are you getting these figures from? Old interviews found on the internet? That doesn't strike me as a reliable source of information, and even if it was true at the time, it might not necessarily be true now - in other words, technology can be improved over time, people get better at their jobs and so on.

• Six months, three months, one million months, it really doesn't matter what period of time you're quoting here. It might take one person working on six cars at once six months to finish any one car, or it might take one person a month, or it might take thirty people a single day, we don't know how many people work on any given car, so to say it takes six months is completely irrelevant in regards to the discussion of how many cars they actually have time to make, if you see what I mean.

 

[Sunshine]

Sony and/or PD know how important GT5 will be, there's no way they'll release it with less content than GT PSP; if they did they might as well shoot themselves in the foot or start developing for Turn 10...

I mean really, are there that many people who think Sony would hold back content for a AAA title like this just to release it as DLC on the day of release? Maybe for a cheap PSN release like Pain, but for a system seller? Consoles and copies of GT5 will be more profitable to them than DLC, and the better the game is, the more profitable. On the other hand, if they were to deliberately cripple what is possibly the most highly anticipated game the PS3 has right now just so they have some DLC, they would be so very slated by the gaming press and gamers themselves that they'd be lucky to ever recover from it!

I have faith in Sony to not do something so ridiculously stupid as that, they haven't done with any of their previous AAA releases so far so why start now? Especially as they could release the game with all the cars PD have finished at the time, wait for the next motor show or go into their back catalogue of games and find more cars to model for further DLC - I bet neither the 458 Italia nor the Espace F1 will be in GT5, for example...

That's a good point, but there is a counter-argument. The reason that Sony musn't 'do something stupid' is that they may lose initial sales of the game, and therefore money, right?
Then you also have to take into consideration that Sony could decide releasing with fewer cars than they need to , and then charging extra for already prepared/planned DLC, would be more profitable.
I certainly know which I would prefer from a personal standpoint, but the DLC method has proven itself to be very profitable in the past *cough* Capcom *cough*.

 

[Tenacious D]

800+ cars in the PS game is nothing when you already have GT4's catalogue of car models to descale. Thast doesn't leave many actual new models to be made for the game.

Dave, I think you need to check out the Corvette example for GT Mobile modeling. It doesn't look like a GT4 model downscaled, it looks frighteningly like the models from Prologue! And I mean GT5 Prologue! Seeing that made me believe that 800 cars or so are going to be in GT5 at launch.

to those who say it takes x number of months to model a car-

• Where are you getting these figures from? Old interviews found on the internet? That doesn't strike me as a reliable source of information, and even if it was true at the time, it might not necessarily be true now - in other words, technology can be improved over time, people get better at their jobs and so on.

A few of us like FoolKiller have been kicking around that notion, because that "6 man months" quote is actually a few years old now. Kaz has been sticking to it, but it could just be a smokescreen too. On top of that, we don't know how many employees Polyphony does have currently because the 150 figure is a little old too. It was 130, but it's been reported that PD hired a number of people, so who knows how many work there now?

Honestly, if GT5 has only 500 some odd cars in it, I'll buy it happily, as will most of us. But from Kaz's own words, you shouldn't be surprised if it has more cars than Mobile.

 

[sesselpupser]

That's a good point, but there is a counter-argument. The reason that Sony musn't 'do something stupid' is that they may lose initial sales of the game, and therefore money, right?
Then you also have to take into consideration that Sony could decide releasing with fewer cars than they need to , and then charging extra for already prepared/planned DLC, would be more profitable.
I certainly know which I would prefer from a personal standpoint, but the DLC method has proven itself to be very profitable in the past *cough* Capcom *cough*.

I see your point, but I think you've missed mine slightly.

I'm saying that the better the game is, the wider Sony's audience will be. The wider the audience, the more DLC they can sell. If GT5 has fewer cars than GT PSP, it won't exactly be seen as a good game, and then Sony's reputation would take a severe nosedive if expensive (and by that, I mean anything more than £free) DLC containing the PSP version's content popped up on the PSN store.

Sony don't need to deliberately cripple the game for DLC, it's not as if PD are going to sit around and do nothing after the game is released as they proved with the Spec III update for Prologue.

Ultimately, my point is its far more profitable for Sony to sell more consoles and copies at launch and then some DLC later on than it is for them to annoy people, sell fewer consoles, fewer copies and therefore limit the audience that might go on to get the DLC that's available at launch as it was already made.


Now, I don't doubt there will be DLC and lots of it, in fact I won't be hugely surprised if there's some premade DLC at launch that could have been in the game, but I do very much doubt that Sony would decide to remove any of the cars found in GT PSP and charge for them.

 

[Torero82]

^^^
Excellent post. I think you have the truth.
👍👍👍

 

[damez]

Dave, I think you need to check out the Corvette example for GT Mobile modeling. It doesn't look like a GT4 model downscaled, it looks frighteningly like the models from Prologue! And I mean GT5 Prologue! Seeing that made me believe that 800 cars or so are going to be in GT5 at launch.


A few of us like FoolKiller have been kicking around that notion, because that "6 man months" quote is actually a few years old now. Kaz has been sticking to it, but it could just be a smokescreen too. On top of that, we don't know how many employees Polyphony does have currently because the 150 figure is a little old too. It was 130, but it's been reported that PD hired a number of people, so who knows how many work there now?

Honestly, if GT5 has only 500 some odd cars in it, I'll buy it happily, as will most of us. But from Kaz's own words, you shouldn't be surprised if it has more cars than Mobile.

I found this from Polyphony Digital's company profile on their site:

Entity Name: Polyphony Digital Inc.
Established: April 2nd 1998
Location: Tobu Toyosu Bldg 2F., 1-10-19 Edagawa, Koto-ku, Tokyo 135-0051 Japan
Capital: 10 Million Yen
Employees: Approx. 110

Which makes things even more confusing.

 

[niky]

If you like Skylines, yes...

Come on... stop perpetuating this myth!

There were only fifty seven or so Skylines in GT4... cough... cough...