Photo GT5 prologue VS Forza 3 Demo

[McLaren]

#538 You are having a memory loss I see, short term that is.

All I did was ask where I said as I didn't remember saying it. But I did.

Clever post, though. Let us know when high school's over for you. Maybe you'll know how to quote then, too.

 

[FyreandIce]

FyreandIce
"Graphics and yin and yang between them (good looking cars for GT, good looking tracks for FM) and physics are both flawed."

I guess half right is better than completely wrong.

Oops, meant graphics are yin and yang.

 

[AvanGard]

All I did was ask where I said as I didn't remember saying it. But I did.

Clever post, though. Let us know when high school's over for you. Maybe you'll know how to quote then, too.

Please keep posting, I enjoy your immaturity. I see know that the memory loss is actually an indicator of a more severe brain damage. I can’t be insulting handicap people so I’ll stop here. For real.

 

[newnikita]

...GT games have always had unrealistic sound. I don't know how Polyphony record and apply their sounds, but however they do it, they're doing it wrong...

But, there is no doubt they record the real cars engine/exhaust sound in every gear (see the GT's making of's or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpcfVEnbMVs). Even, sometimes (I can't assure what cars use it) on dynamometers, like the R8 (remember the article "Audi R8 meets GT5" http://www.yukom-client.de/client_space/audi_ar_08/#/nuerburgring/realtiyandillusion/pdf).

So, perhaps the "problem" is the post-processing, filtering, editing work with the sound files. Or maybe a question of style, like for example, as they make all the tracks look clean and polished even after taking the real and "dirty world" photos and videos. Maybe they level the sounds and want they uniform so you can hear all the different cars in the race and not only the V8's

I really don't know the reason, but they record the sound properly, I don't doubt it.

Oh, and offtopic, this is what happens when you don't use, properly, the dyno, with fans or in open field with fresh air to force the engine cooling ^_^

 

[McLaren]

Please keep posting, I enjoy your immaturity. I see know that the memory loss is actually an indicator of a more severe brain damage. I can’t be insulting handicap people so I’ll stop here. For real.

Another witty remark. And you call me immature. Kids.

 

[Bank]

I thought Polyphony Digital do record their sounds from a dynamo now?
But I have seen a vid of them recording it with a sort of microphone. If I'm wrong, then daaaaamnit PD. LOL

 

[aspect8]

I see know that the memory loss is actually an indicator of a more severe brain damage.

Pro tip: If you're going to bring out the "you're retarded" argument on the internet, make sure the sentence you do it with doesn't have 2 grammatical errors in it.

Regarding sound: The in-car sound in GT is indeed better than chase cam. Chase cam makes every car sound like a vacuum cleaner, whereas interior makes them sound just a little bit too... clean? Flat? Every car sounds like it's choking on something caught in it's intake. Give chase more exhaust and other cams more grunt. Oh, and the tire squeal is physically painful to me. Endurance races should come with a Health and Safety warning about tire noise.

Forza is closer than GT, but still not there. Shift has fantastic in car sounds, with all sorts of whines, squeeks and rumbles. Polyphony and Turn 10: Take note. The interior view of shift easily trumps the clean, clinical interiors that GT and Forza offer. The overdid the camera shake a bit, but other than that... wow!

Regarding AI:
I've seen Forza AI bump like teenagers, and I've seen them drive like Jesus himself would drive. But at least they're driving like people. GT has never sold me on that idea yet.

 

[LongbowX]

Maybe they level the sounds and want they uniform so you can hear all the different cars in the race and not only the V8's

The "loudness" of the cars also depends on the exhaust system, not just the number of cylinders- so not every V8 will be the loudest. Though I admit some are very loud. However I have heard many other cars that are loud as well.

Also, this is way off topic of what this thread is about. Everyone's talking about sound now, when I thought we were talking about the photographic comparison. Hah...

 

[newnikita]

The "loudness" of the cars also depends on the exhaust system, not just the number of cylinders...

I know... is just an example.

...Also, this is way off topic of what this thread is about. Everyone's talking about sound now, when I thought we were talking about the photographic comparison...

Yes, you are right. But we need more ingame photos, like the ones in pages 1, 14 and 17. Not bullshots, garages, photo modes... And, I don't see neither find new ones, since then

 

[LongbowX]

I know... is just an example.

I thought it might be. No harm done, I hope.

I know... is just an example.

Yes, you are right. But we need more ingame photos, like the ones in pages 1, 14 and 17. Not bullshots, garages, photo modes... And, I don't see neither find new ones, since then

Yes, you're right. I suppose someone could keep taking photos pf GT5 vs. the Forza 3 Demo. As for the real thing, we are a few weeks away from Forza 3's release and also Tokyo Motor Show, where we might get something on GT5. Maybe. (And only if the TMS doesn't fold because of lack of manufacturers appearing...)

However, the thread title seems to suggest that this is a comparison between the Forza 3 Demo and GT5. So I think we should stick to that.

 

[Sele1981]

Its the same inaccurate sound only quieter. And those tire squeals have got to GO. They are some of the worst tire squealing sounds of any racing game. And not simply because it's an annoying sound or because it's inaccurate but the sound itself doesn't actually tell you anything about the traction your car has or doesn't have, like it should.

Obviously if you are hearing loud squealing it's because you have lost traction, but there is no nuance to it. Nothing telling you that you are on the very edge of traction or that you've JUST started to loose traction..... it just starts SQUEALING at you.

WOW is there ANYTHING that you like in GT? you bash everything in the game

Have never read anything positive from you in this forum

 

[Tapey]

One thing I think GT5P deserves credit for is it's the only racing game where you can hear other cars on the track. You can race round Suzuka and tell that there's a Ferrari right behind you and moving to overtake just by the engine sounds alone, and that is awesome 👍

 

[Custer85]

You can even hear other cars on the track, while crossing the bridge.

 

[evilfoxhound]

Someone else has noticed that Forza 3 isn't even that much better looking than Forza 2, never mind GT5P LOL

Comparison Pics:

http://kotaku.com/5374211/but-does-forza-3-look-different-from-forza-2/gallery/

The cars look better, but the tracks look almost identical.

 

[bighap]

Someone else has noticed that Forza 3 isn't even that much better looking than Forza 2, never mind GT5P LOL

Comparison Pics:

http://kotaku.com/5374211/but-does-forza-3-look-different-from-forza-2/gallery/

The cars look better, but the tracks look almost identical.

Agreed. Pretty lame looking as far as graphics advancement goes.

 

[Devedander]

Agreed. Pretty lame looking as far as graphics advancement goes.

I am curious, outside of art style, what would you think should have been improved on those track shots? I mean most of them are pretty plane shots anyway (grass, track, some trees) and the city one does look noteably different in terms of how many adverts and posters etc are up...

What do you think should have been better considering we are comparing F3 and F2 which are two games on the same generation console?

Also something I think would be interesting to compare to would be side by side video of both... seeing it in action might tell a fuller story than screencaps.

 

[newnikita]

Someone else has noticed that Forza 3 isn't even that much better looking than Forza 2, never mind GT5P LOL

Maybe happens like in GT4, where the old tracks looked mean (one of the worsts I think was Monaco) compared with the new ones like New York. I say this because Forza 3 "Camino Viejo" looks good even ingame shots.

 

[Tornado]

Someone else has noticed that Forza 3 isn't even that much better looking than Forza 2, never mind GT5P LOL

Forza 2 was an XBox 360 game. Forza 3 is an XBox 360 game. I'm not sure where you are going with this.

 

[evilfoxhound]

Forza 2 was an XBox 360 game. Forza 3 is an XBox 360 game. I'm not sure where you are going with this.

I'm going back to Dan Greewald's comment "Forza 3 is the best looking racing game this generation"

.....ya.

 

[Dravonic]

Regarding Forza's AI, how is it compared to Shift's?

 

[Earth]

Forza's sound is much more accurate then GT5's.

END OF DISCUSSION.

Seems like a pretty bias video as in the idle sound test he just sat on the rev limiter in GT5P.

Also for the launch of the F430 he had traction control on in GT5P but not on FM3 making it look more spectacular.

FM3, in the case of this car, had closer sound but it was not identical

M

 

[Devedander]

I'm going back to Dan Greewald's comment "Forza 3 is the best looking racing game this generation"

.....ya.

Well best is subjective (ie are you talking about pixel count, AA or art style?) and technically if it's even a little better looking than FM2 then it's better looking than FM2... so it could well be one of those sentances designed to sound powerful but upon closer inspection not be saying as much as you think.

 

[aspect8]

The F2 vs F3 comparo is very dependant on the situation you choose to compare them in. The difference in overall look between a new F3 environs (Kaido, Amalfi, Monserrate, Catalunya, Sarthe) and the older F2 environs is night and day to my eyes. Likewise most of the newer cars look better than old favorites that have been with us since F1. You'll find the same thing in GT. That's the price of demanding more and more tracks, eventually they have to start recycling them, or redo them and never ship the game.

Turn 10 have said they spent a lot of time on their replay and photomode, because that was one area they knew Forza was weak in. I suspect they are running into hardware limitations on just how much eye candy they can put into gameplay with the amount of physics underlying the driving model.

About the sounds: I read an article a while ago (I'm trying to find it for you guys as we speak) about how Turn 10 record sounds. They do the standard thing of sticking it on a dyno and placing microphones at each of the camera locations. But the extra mile they go to for upgrades I think is what sets them apart from GT. They actually fit racing exhausts and re-record (where possible) the audio, and separately record superchargers etc to lay over the top. I think this is why the Forza sounds have a little more snarl to them than GT, especially in racing trim.

Edit: Found it!

 

[FyreandIce]

Seems like a pretty bias video as in the idle sound test he just sat on the rev limiter in GT5P.

Also for the launch of the F430 he had traction control on in GT5P but not on FM3 making it look more spectacular.

FM3, in the case of this car, had closer sound but it was not identical

M

Go try to incite a flamewar elsewhere.

Continue with these childish flamebait posts and I will start reporting you.

 

[McLaren]

Someone else has noticed that Forza 3 isn't even that much better looking than Forza 2, never mind GT5P LOL

Comparison Pics:

http://kotaku.com/5374211/but-does-forza-3-look-different-from-forza-2/gallery/

The cars look better, but the tracks look almost identical.

Maybe before you bring that up as an argument, you'll note that Picture #3 isn't even the same track.

You should also read this.

What's more, these are screenshots — as many have pointed out, the game does look different in motion.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Dravonic and Custer85 laid it out pretty well on the Gran Turismo side. Unfortunately, the Forza arguments aren't just based on Prologue, which is an incredibly bare bones and extremely early build of GT5 - almost two years old at the core

It's my understanding that the changes between GT4 Prologue and GT4 were not drastic either?

You can even alter the weight balance of cars in GT4. I'm unaware of this capability in Forza at all.

You can.

Frankly, this seems to be mostly a matter of opinion, but the easy drifting in Forza doesn't proclaim realism in the physics model.

We can drift easily in GT, so does that mean the physics are not real in GT either?

I know a few have stated that the F3 demo has awesome graphics, but this is a view I just don't share. There are a lot of textures and objects, but to me, rather than looking more detailed, it just looks cluttered. In fact, my initial reaction, which I still hold to, is that Monserrat looks like a scene from Half Life 2. It doesn't help that those mountains look like something from a fantasy world, because the graphics aren't photo real, but heavily retouched by digital artists. They do look interesting, but realistic? No. In fact, the first replay caused an adverse reaction for me. Everything looked plastic and CG, like some kind of elaborate movie prop, even the cars. I did get used to it, but that underlying effect remains. In contrast, except for the most obvious examples in Prologue, the replays look like real life racing films, and in race, they look like live video.

Well, that is your opinion. You have to learn to accept the fact that not everyone agrees with your opinion. Many of us find it look very realistic looking, not plastic or CG. We don't see any need to get used to something so beautiful. Just like we don't need to get used to GT being so beautiful.

Tire deformation might only be cosmetic, it's hard to say right now.

No, the deformation is also in the physics. Confirmed by playing the demo and by Turn 10.

In Forza 2 and 3 demo, there are moments which suggest you're looking at something real. In Prologue, there are moments which make you realize you're watching a game, and this aspect doesn't escape many people.

In FM3 and GT5p, there is no question I am playing a game. Both look like games. No mistake.

But with everything discussed from a Forza perspective, FW3 is usually given a free pass, while the worst is assumed of GT.

What is this FW3 you keep mentioning?

The race courses are still something of a mystery, though there should be an abundance of them. However, it seems that some courses such as the Forza Test Track and others are going to be milked a lot with alternate and reversed layouts to bring the track count to 100.

Where is the question? They already announced now many tracks and layouts there are.

One thing though, you'd better have a hard drive to experience all the content, because a number of major tracks and cars are on that second DVD, including a brand new and super accurate Nurburgring Nordschleife.

A NUMBER? There are 3 tracks. It's 1.9gb of content.

We would probably have a small game with a decent if limited selection of cars, a handful of tracks, and a load of bugs and patches. Reminds me of a certain game on the 360...

Reminds me of every racing game this gen.

How do you know you're going to have tire brands in FW3? You take that for granted, don't you.

Well Turn 10 stated that tire brands are returning from FM2, with additions (more brands), and the ability to put different tire setups on the front vs. back as well. That isn't really taking it for granted when they tell you it's there.

Forza 3, I knew was going to be pretty much Forza 2 with more textures and a bit more polish. When it comes out, I'm not going to leave a trail of "I told you so" posts in my wake.

And since FM3 isn't just FM2 with more polish and textures, why would you need to leave a trail?

Lets compare a Gran Turismo 5 city track to a Forza 3 city track. In my opinion Gran Turismo is at times indistinguishable from real life in the video, while the Forza New York track looks like a nice looking game. That may be the look some people prefer, though.

And some people don't think GT looks like real life in the video or when playing it.

That's not a fact. That's what you think. Unless you have access to insider info, all we know about the Livery Editor is that Kaz would like to have one. We don't even know if it will be in the game. How you escalate that to worse livery editor and call that a fact is beyond me.

Don't get me wrong. I share the same opinion. I just don't make assumptions and try to pass them out as facts.

So, I am just speculating here, but it's possible that GT5 might come with Adobe CS4 built right in.

I wasnt referring to this thread in specific as numerous threads have people sucking Forza's nipple. So maybe you should not get so defensive and take your own advice unless I directly call you out, in which I did not.

I can agree to some extent, but that is a matter of opinion. More dramatic and loud doesn't mean more realistic. Forza tends to have louder and more exaggerated engine noises.

Here is a cool video that some guy made. He took video feed of his bumper cam on his car and replaced the audio with GT5 Prologue's car sound, and when you watch it, it sounds pretty damn realistic. The first time I watched it I thought it was the real life car audio until I read the info of the vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fKxGXgGDsA

And its halarious to me that since I have joined this site all the posts I have read comming from you in one way or another are negative towards GT or highlighting its flaws. Yes GT5 has flaws and I don't deny them, but you seem pretty keen on focusing on that aspect. You have a good ammount of posts on here so I'm not speaking for all your posts, and I'm not going to bother reading your post history, but I am just speaking for what I have noticed since I joined recently.

But whatever floats your boat.

Lol at you correcting my grammar, like that has any bearing on the topic. And I'm glad that the main reason you post is to police people. Most people post because they enjoy and have an interest in Gran Turismo, not to mod peoples opinions whether they be true or false. And if all you see from this forum are "people posting outlandish logic or acting like GT has special advantages" why spend your time here? From what it sounds, you don't enjoy the GTPlanet community, you just like policing people. I will call you out on this, go through my post history and point out ONE SINGLE POST where I made an exaggerated claim about GT, false information, or showed any sort of biased remark regarding Gran Turismo. I hate when people are biased and blind to fact, and make ignorant claims or comments, but my purpose isn't to put everyone in their place. I come here because I enjoy Gran Turismo and talking to the community about Gran Turismo. You on the other hand just like to police people and defend your precious Forza. I am pretty unbiased when it comes to GT5 and Forza 3, I think they are both great games in their own right, and bring different qualities to the racing genre. But comeon this is a GT fan website, not 'defend Forza and moderate fanboys' site. Whatever makes you happy though.

McLaren I'm done with you man. Do what you do, keep policing people and try to get that mod badge. It seems thats what makes you happy. But talking with you is a complete waste of my time.

McLaren, this guy is just getting you all worked up over nothing. Why do you bother? They pretty much just started posting here yesterday and have no idea of your posting history. You are better than that. I suspect he won't be here long.

One thing I think GT5P deserves credit for is it's the only racing game where you can hear other cars on the track. You can race round Suzuka and tell that there's a Ferrari right behind you and moving to overtake just by the engine sounds alone, and that is awesome 👍

You can hear that in Forza and Race Pro as well.

 

[McLaren]

McLaren, this guy is just getting you all worked up over nothing. Why do you bother? They pretty much just started posting here yesterday and have no idea of your posting history. You are better than that. I suspect he won't be here long.

He's just another person who assumes I only point out GT flaws, and believes all my posts are to do so. Maybe if he'd actually leave this part of the forum, he'd see I've pointed out some flaws on Forza, but hey, what can you do with these people.

 

[Seismica]

Dear god... flamefest or what.

Both games are extraordinarily unrealistic because neither can simulate the acceleration or G-forces you experience. The physics models are both fundamentally flawed in that they only affect the cars. If there was a physics environment, and the cars were affected by that naturally in gameplay that could be realistic, but still nothing on real life because in the end its all just a piece of written code.

The AI in neither game is outstanding, they both have their pros and cons. The graphics in both games are excellent. GTs graphics give it the edge, but Forza 3 is still running on an engine created around 5 years ago, on a console that has limitations that prevented the designers from creating the graphics they wanted. The graphics engine for GT5P is newer than the one for Forza 2, and both have seen continual improvement, the results of which we are yet to see.

The engine sounds, clearly Forza and Shift have an advantage here. Any GT fanboy (nothing wrong with being a fanboy, i'm a GT fanboy) who continually claims that the engine sounds arn't better in the other games and that all the comparison videos are biased, is just kidding himself. I pity them.

The best thing of all is neither game is out. What we have seen is Demos. Usually these Demos help the developers find the faults that they otherwise wouldn't have noticed during testing. So when they are released, both games are going to be well polished. We have already seen vast improvements of GT5P since it was released, and there is still more that PD are holding back. I didn't play any early FM3 demos (only played the most recent one. Were there more?), but i'm sure Turn10 have improved the game vastly.

Gran Turismo's devlopment cycle seems to be they create a game, improve the game, then make a new game. GT1 and GT2 were remarkably similar in gameplay. GT3 and 4 were also very similar. What we see now is GT5, the first of 2 or even 3 games in the series. If there are a lot of things missing from this one, expect them in GT6. The amount of time PD have put into modelling will pay off, because it means they will have very little work to do in the next installment. Turn10 had the same situation with Forza 3, very few improvements needed to be made, because they already had a good platform to build on.

 

[McLaren]

Dear god... flamefest or what.

Both games are extraordinarily unrealistic because neither can simulate the acceleration or G-forces you experience. The physics models are both fundamentally flawed in that they only affect the cars. If there was a physics environment, and the cars were affected by that naturally in gameplay that could be realistic, but still nothing on real life because in the end its all just a piece of written code.

The AI in neither game is outstanding, they both have their pros and cons. The graphics in both games are excellent. GTs graphics give it the edge, but Forza 3 is still running on an engine created around 5 years ago, on a console that has limitations that prevented the designers from creating the graphics they wanted. The graphics engine for GT5P is newer than the one for Forza 2, and both have seen continual improvement, the results of which we are yet to see.

The engine sounds, clearly Forza and Shift have an advantage here. Any GT fanboy (nothing wrong with being a fanboy, i'm a GT fanboy) who continually claims that the engine sounds arn't better in the other games and that all the comparison videos are biased, is just kidding himself. I pity them.

The best thing of all is neither game is out. What we have seen is Demos. Usually these Demos help the developers find the faults that they otherwise wouldn't have noticed during testing. So when they are released, both games are going to be well polished. We have already seen vast improvements of GT5P since it was released, and there is still more that PD are holding back. I didn't play any early FM3 demos (only played the most recent one. Were there more?), but i'm sure Turn10 have improved the game vastly.

Gran Turismo's devlopment cycle seems to be they create a game, improve the game, then make a new game. GT1 and GT2 were remarkably similar in gameplay. GT3 and 4 were also very similar. What we see now is GT5, the first of 2 or even 3 games in the series. If there are a lot of things missing from this one, expect them in GT6. The amount of time PD have put into modelling will pay off, because it means they will have very little work to do in the next installment. Turn10 had the same situation with Forza 3, very few improvements needed to be made, because they already had a good platform to build on.

 

[newuser2k9]

Dear god... flamefest or what.

Both games are extraordinarily unrealistic because neither can simulate the acceleration or G-forces you experience. The physics models are both fundamentally flawed in that they only affect the cars. If there was a physics environment, and the cars were affected by that naturally in gameplay that could be realistic, but still nothing on real life because in the end its all just a piece of written code.

The AI in neither game is outstanding, they both have their pros and cons. The graphics in both games are excellent. GTs graphics give it the edge, but Forza 3 is still running on an engine created around 5 years ago, on a console that has limitations that prevented the designers from creating the graphics they wanted. The graphics engine for GT5P is newer than the one for Forza 2, and both have seen continual improvement, the results of which we are yet to see.

The engine sounds, clearly Forza and Shift have an advantage here. Any GT fanboy (nothing wrong with being a fanboy, i'm a GT fanboy) who continually claims that the engine sounds arn't better in the other games and that all the comparison videos are biased, is just kidding himself. I pity them.

The best thing of all is neither game is out. What we have seen is Demos. Usually these Demos help the developers find the faults that they otherwise wouldn't have noticed during testing. So when they are released, both games are going to be well polished. We have already seen vast improvements of GT5P since it was released, and there is still more that PD are holding back. I didn't play any early FM3 demos (only played the most recent one. Were there more?), but i'm sure Turn10 have improved the game vastly.

Gran Turismo's devlopment cycle seems to be they create a game, improve the game, then make a new game. GT1 and GT2 were remarkably similar in gameplay. GT3 and 4 were also very similar. What we see now is GT5, the first of 2 or even 3 games in the series. If there are a lot of things missing from this one, expect them in GT6. The amount of time PD have put into modelling will pay off, because it means they will have very little work to do in the next installment. Turn10 had the same situation with Forza 3, very few improvements needed to be made, because they already had a good platform to build on.

Sorry, but the Forza 3 demo is final, gold code.