Photo GT5 prologue VS Forza 3 Demo

[aspect8]

I have seen the real life images. I've also commented that the graphic recreation in the F3 demo is a bit lacking in realness.

Awesome generalizations without any specific points. If you're talking about the general colour/contrast palette, then that's an issue with the game itself, not this track. If you're talking about something else, care to share?

As for the Forza bots...

• Fire up demo
• Go to race, pick a car, set difficulty to Expert.
• Begin race.
• Watch bots brake hard and early before turns, and make you have to go reckless to get around them.

Your proof that the AI in Forza is rubbish is that the demo bots don't go around corners as fast as you could? Or that you have to go around them when they brake early into a corner? And this nullifies the fact that they do give racing room, bump each other, make mistakes and generally try to emulate human behaviour?

Also, my experience is that the Forza 2 bots were much faster than even the expert bots in the Forza 3 demo. McLaren played the full game and said the bots put up a great challenge. I'm not going to judge the merits of the AI on the demo.

 

[JDMLOVER]

Forza 2 may have been a 360 game, but it still didn't look next-gen to me. This was before the PS3 and GT5 were even mentioned, and I was heavily dissing Forza 2. I thought it looked like complete crap for a system that was supposed to be so powerful. This had nothing to do with fanboyism for me. I was just pissed that Forza didn't look better than it did at that time, but as I played it, I really enjoyed it. The game was fun no doubt with good physics, excellent sound, and decent graphics.

The F3 demo is actually pretty fun. I gave it more of a chance this time. It's fun and the sound is good. Nothing too overwhelming right now though since it's just a demo. After playing it though. I must say that I still think GT will kick its ass. This has nothing to do with being a fanboy, but ever since GT5p I've just seen a quality and piece of work that seems so much better than everything about Forza.

Even when playing GTHD, I just felt a quality so much greater than Forza. This wasn't a good thing for me at the time. Forza is by no means junk though. And it does look good, but I thought it was gonna be at least like GT5 or a little better, but it's not. For now at least.

 

[DontTaseMeBro]

F2 = F3 w/ cockpits

Side-by-side comparison in HD
(watch the whole thing but pause and compare from 1:21-1:28. No difference at all)

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/laguna-seca-forza-motorsport/57418

 

[Earth]

F2 = F3 w/ cockpits

Side-by-side comparison in HD
(watch the whole thing but pause and compare from 1:21-1:28. No difference at all)

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/laguna-seca-forza-motorsport/57418

Wow, Shift looks considerably better in alot of the shots. So much so I thought I was watching Forza 3 instead of NFS Shift at times until I scrolled up and saw the subtitles at the top identifying each game.

Maybe the better/closer comparison would be NFS Shift vs Forza 3 instead of GT5/GT5P vs Forza 3?

Seriously, who can compete with something that has had 5 years of development time?

 

[killanite]

Seriously, who can compete with something that has had 5 years of development time?

DNF (Duke Nukem Forever)

 

[GreatServant]

It is not just the develop time, the most important thing is the fact that PS3 got more power. You can easily tell from the number of cars on track, details of the environment and cars, frame rates, resolution. GT pretty much double what Forza offered. It is the hardware that making the biggest different I reckon.

 

[TBR 427]

It is not just the develop time, the most important thing is the fact that PS3 got more power. You can easily tell from the number of cars on track, details of the environment and cars, frame rates, resolution. GT pretty much double what Forza offered. It is the hardware that making the biggest different I reckon.

Not always. Supercar challenge and Ferrari challenge are both PS3 games, that graphically are on about the same level as F3 and Shift.

What makes the difference is the GT engine itself.

PD probably has some of the best game engine programmers in the world working there right now. That it's leaps ahead of other games on the PS and other platforms shows this.

 

[Custer85]

As much as Kaz has been whining about SONY for giving him a time frame, they seem to be eager to make their 1st party developers release great games. I guess SONY tries to keep up the quality of their games and thats the best thing about SONY. They keep their 1st party developers, unlike Microsoft, they tend to buy exclusives from 3rd Party developers and sell their best studios, like the one that released the Age of Empires series.

The power of the PS3 is another aspect, but the console is not that much better than the Xbox360 as far as performence is concerned. The Xbox360 makes it easy for developers to utilize the power and the visually good games where available from the beginning of this generation.
Its allways the same with the Playstation, Its hard for developers to get to know the structure, but as soon as they figured out how they release games that look superior.

PD got some help from Studio Santa Monica and Naughty Dog and they relly might have improved the visuals greatly compared to GT5p.
T10 has Microsoft pushing them to release a game with as many features as possible, but they have to cut many corners and while playing a Forza game you can clearly see and feel it. Forza is good, but its not great.

 

[Devedander]

Not always. Supercar challenge and Ferrari challenge are both PS3 games, that graphically are on about the same level as F3 and Shift.

What makes the difference is the GT engine itself.

PD probably has some of the best game engine programmers in the world working there right now. That it's leaps ahead of other games on the PS and other platforms shows this.

While GT does do much more graphically than Forza, I haven't seen comment on the breakdown of where the power of the system goes (ie physics calculations, AI etc) and one game cannot really be said to show one system is more powerful than anothe. Especially considering that there are multiplatform games that look and or perform better on the 360.

I think a lot of it does come down to the coders and the fact that, while it's not like having 5 iterations on one console, being on the fifth segment in the game means PD has had a lot of time to perfect techniques that others may still be rough around the edges on.

It could certainly be a case of brute force, but I think there are a lot of other aspects that could be big contributors too.

 

[TBR 427]

While GT does do much more graphically than Forza, I haven't seen comment on the breakdown of where the power of the system goes (ie physics calculations, AI etc) and one game cannot really be said to show one system is more powerful than anothe. Especially considering that there are multiplatform games that look and or perform better on the 360.

I think a lot of it does come down to the coders and the fact that, while it's not like having 5 iterations on one console, being on the fifth segment in the game means PD has had a lot of time to perfect techniques that others may still be rough around the edges on.

It could certainly be a case of brute force, but I think there are a lot of other aspects that could be big contributors too.

Not only the power required to do the physics calculations, but the calculations themselves. Of course efficiency is always a good thing though, but I doubt the % processing power devoted to physics would tell the whole story.

From memory, developers break down the PS3 into 8 (as in cells). 3 for graphical stuff, 1 for the OS, 1 as backup (in case one fails) and the other 3 for whatever else there is (physics, AI, etc etc etc).

I wouldn't be surprised if the 360 devs broke up the crossbox's power in a similar way, though maybe with more graphical percentage, and obviously without the 'spare'.


As for development over 5 GT games...I think times have changed too much for them to be of any literal use. Of course the programmers would be more experienced, and better able to deal with change, as well as knowing optimization techniques, etc, but beyond that the PS1 is as close to a PS3 with regards to programming as a fat person is to caek.

 

[killanite]

Especially considering that there are multiplatform games that look and or perform better on the 360.

It's cause most multiplatform games are made on the 360 and then ported to the PS3 since the PS3 is alot harder to make games on.

 

[Organ-Donor]

It's cause most multiplatform games are made on the 360 and then ported to the PS3 since the PS3 is alot harder to make games on.

And look at the true beauty that PS3 exclusives get when using the full capacity and attention of the PS3: Uncharted, MGS4, Killzone2, Uncharted 2, Heavy rain, God Of War lll, GT5 just to name a few, and then pushing the limits such as 256 player online matches with virtually no lag in MAG. Its pretty impressive the things they can do when only programming for the PS3.

 

[Seismica]

Especially considering that there are multiplatform games that look and or perform better on the 360.

Considering the majority of PS3 exclusives have better graphics than similar Xbox 360 titles? Also that the Xbox 360, with it similarities to the PC, is often the first stop for developers. Said developers often do a bad job of porting the game for PS3, which can lead to a variety of differences in appearence, performance and gameplay.

I think looking at games like Forza and GT is the best way of comparing the performance of the two consoles. Both developers have tried to make the game as good looking as they possibly can, yet one is way better than the other in appearence.

 

[AvanGard]

So the IGN review for Forza 3 is in. And the verdict is 9.4 score. Awesome graphics, physics, customization, feel. They probably would have had the right to say it is the best racing game ever if Gran Turismo did not exist. It’s like claiming that Saturn is the biggest planet, sure if Jupiter didn’t exist.

Overall no surprise from IGN they always over-exaggerate their review scores.

Check some of the new videos of realistic damage and rollovers.
http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14345839/forza-3/videos/forza3_gmp_catmouse_100709.html

Apparently the purpose of this multiplayer mode is one guy trys to reach the finish while others try to stop him by ramming him. It’s like carmageddon but without the zombies.

The game does deserve credit, but to compare it to the upcoming GT5 is unrealistic.

 

[Gejost]

Besides, it wouldn't be so pronounced if Turn 10 hadn't turned into a bunch of flaming tards over the course of the summer.

I wasn't aware of this untill yesterday when my brother told me so. If this is indeed the case, than I can fully understand why GT fans are so critical about FM3. But still... there is a big difference between being critical or exaggerating.

And yes, imo GT5 will kick FM3's ass, but FM3 is still a good racegame. And some things I read here about FM3 are a "little" bit exaggerated.

 

[McLaren]

Check some of the new videos of realistic damage and rollovers.
http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14345839/forza-3/videos/forza3_gmp_catmouse_100709.html

Apparently the purpose of this multiplayer mode is one guy trys to reach the finish while others try to stop him by ramming him. It’s like carmageddon but without the zombies.

It's called Cat & Mouse. Don't be surprised if people in GT5 start playing it as well; it's very fun.

And yes, imo GT5 will kick FM3's ass, but FM3 is still a good racegame. And some things I read here about FM3 are a "little" bit exaggerated.

At the things about GT aren't?

 

[Gejost]

F2 = F3 w/ cockpits

Side-by-side comparison in HD
(watch the whole thing but pause and compare from 1:21-1:28. No difference at all)

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/laguna-seca-forza-motorsport/57418

Wow, did the 360 reached it's limit?

 

[Gejost]

At the things about GT aren't?

Coming from FM3 fans or coming from GT5 fans?

 

[Organ-Donor]

It's called Cat & Mouse. Don't be surprised if people in GT5 start playing it as well; it's very fun.

First thing that went through my head when watching that was: Wow, that looks really fun. 👍 Private rooms are going to be great messing around with friends, especially with the new collision/damage physics.

At the things about GT aren't?

Yes, there are ignorant statements from both sides of the rock.

 

[sejtur]

It's called Cat & Mouse. Don't be surprised if people in GT5 start playing it as well; it's very fun.

At the things about GT aren't?

I did it back in GT3 with a friend. When you don't have thesame skills, it's more fun to do things like that. Also, on Swiss alps, we did car wrestling on the tiny bridge. Alot of fun, and some more variation.

@ Gejost: Turn 10 were talking about how much better looking the game is, and that it is defintive. Here's a vid about their behaviour. I don't really like how it is edited, and it is very exheggerated (?) but it gets the message across what Turn 10 is about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNDoYUsRrjI

 

[Gejost]

Turn 10 were talking about how much better looking the game is, and that it is defintive. Here's a vid about their behaviour. I don't really like how it is edited, and it is very exheggerated (?) but it gets the message across what Turn 10 is about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNDoYUsRrjI

They lose my respect if they talk like that. Big 👎

Oh and the GT5 footage in that video with that music gave me goosebumps.

 

[Tenacious D]

So, you haven't played the full game, just the demo? As I thought.

Play the full game and watch how the AI races.

Well sorry, I can't fly up to Washington and get my copy early. I have to wait for it to come out like all the regular slobs on this planet. So what else is different?

Awesome generalizations without any specific points. If you're talking about the general colour/contrast palette, then that's an issue with the game itself, not this track. If you're talking about something else, care to share?

Well, have you ever compared a real life image to one done by a computer artist, and been impressed by their work? But it's obvious that you're looking at a CG fake? This is the effect of the Forza backgrounds.

In contrast with GT5, with many shots, you have to look hard in order to see those digital cues. On top of that, it looks like the same models from the old Forzas are being used. The S2000 looks weird, the Silvia looks fat not sleek, the R34 Skyline looks bloated not beefy, the Supra MkIII looks too large, among others.

Sorry, I'm just not as impressed with the graphics as you are.

About the bots, sorry, I'm not impressed with them either. I mean, yay, bots with issues, just like all the other games.

Especially considering that there are multiplatform games that look and or perform better on the 360.

Actually, this is really old news, kind of like 360's DVD drive being a little faster... with a single layer DVD. These days, you have to engross over the good games like Hawx or the new Batman to see any differences. And of course, some PS3 ports actually look and play better.

 

[Bank]

Semi-off-topic

Forza 3 a 9.4 from IGN?
Hah Uncharted 2 still conquers all

But yeah, IGN has a very tiny thing for their exclusive Xbox reviews. I'd accept a 9.0 or 9.2, not 9.4 👍
An example is Halo: ODST...

Other than that, Forza 3 looks real awesome!

 

[Custer85]

GT3 got an 9.8 from IGN, so lets wait and see.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

I pay no attention to the IGN review for the simple reason they have NFS Shift 9/10. If you look at the reader average score its a more appropiate 6/10.

Have to say as time is going by im being put off from buying FM3 and i've had it pre-ordered since it was announced. The simple reason is apart from the lack of racing features i.e no weather, pit options, day/night cycles, only 8 online, some of todays videos look dreadful. The graphics IMO look very much last generation especially on tracks like Silverstone, Laguna Seca.

Very tempted to stick with MW2 and have a break from racing games until GT5 is released.

 

[haubi]

But yeah, IGN has a very tiny thing for their exclusive Xbox reviews. I'd accept a 9.0 or 9.2, not 9.4 👍
An example is Halo: ODST...

Other than that, Forza 3 looks real awesome!

you never played it so how would you know if it deserves a 9.0 or 9.4 ?

I'm sure it's at least as good as GT3 and that got a 9.8

 

[Bogie 19th]

Fixed.

For you maybe. When did you get the full FM3 game to see the old tracks?

Horrible or not they were taken directly from fm2 and fm3.

What does that have to do with comparing it for yourself in real life on your own TV playing both games?

Well, considering it's statistically possible to actually own a "perfect" 360 ( sure ), I won't holler BS on your response. However, you must be aware that all of those issues I posted are common knowledge and a source of a lot of squabbling on both official Forza forums.

Why would you hollar BS? I was just explaining my experience. How is that BS? Leaderboards were wiped numerous times from glitchers.

Turn 10 hadn't turned into a bunch of flaming tards over the course of the summer.

Turn 10 and PD are all flaming tards. It's no different when PD says they don't have competition 👎

When I did only have a 360 Leet, I could hardly wait to get my PS3. And this was when there were just a few games I wanted, back in the first year.

I enjoy both my PS3 and 360, though I use my 360 more.

Err... you'll have to show me something, because I only see two things which are different between F2 and 3:

• More textures, which is okay
• Car shadows don't quickly go black, which is nice

But neither of those things make me say, "Wow, FW3 is awesomer." It looks kind of like Half Life.

Go read his mini review in the Xbox 360 section on this forum.

those Martian looking mountains aren't in FM2

I haven't seen those mountains in FM3 yet. Odd.

And those tire sounds.

Thank GOD they are not as bad as the GT5p tire sounds.

 

[sollord]

What I find funny is everyone comparing GT5 to FM:3 given GT5 was released 7months after FM:2... It must say a lot about PD skill if the Graphics from game released in 2007 are about as good as FM:3 a game not due out for another 16days and gives a general idea of what we should really expect in GT5 since they had the graphics on par with FM:3 way back in 2007 that left them lots of time to work on other things like damage.

 

[alfy13]

What does that have to do with comparing it for yourself in real life on your own TV playing both games?
.

Sadly i still own a launch 360 ( i need to get a elite). I played the demo, and to be quite honest, it looks like forza 2., but just a little better.

I wish i could say, wow the graphics are awesome. But when you play GT5P like 3 times a week, then you play the F3 demo, its like going from a PS3 game to a PS2 game.
Now i am not saying F3 is ugly or anything. but compared to GT5P, its nothing special. Infact Shift looks some what better then F3 in some areas.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Sadly i still own a launch 360. I played the demo, and to be quite honest, it looks like forza 2., but just a little better.

I wish i could say, wow the graphics are awesome. But when you play GT5P like 3 times a week, then you play the F3 demo, its like going from a PS3 game to a PS2 game.
Now i am not saying F3 is ugly or anything. but compared to GT5P, its nothing special. Infact Shift looks some what better then F3 in some areas.

And I too have played the demo, and it looks much better. The environment and track details are better than GT5p, though the cars don't match the GT5p detail.

So, I am not sure of your point?