Physics thread

[GTAndy36]

...And camber, oh how I miss playing with camber :'(

Exactly, that's the best part! And GT6 royally screwed it up. 0.0/0.0 gave you the most grip, so it was usually pointless changing it from that.

 

[notanexpert]

Are you kidding me! I always had probably .5 or more

 

[GTAndy36]

Are you kidding me! I always had probably .5 or more

Nope. Almost every car I setup had the 0.0 camber, it simply would give the most grip. Sometimes I'd notch it up a little if I wanted some slide on the rear, but almost all the time the fronts would be 0.0 (which of course is bloody stupid for real world physics!)

 

[psychoazubi]

Nope. Almost every car I setup had the 0.0 camber, it simply would give the most grip. Sometimes I'd notch it up a little if I wanted some slide on the rear, but almost all the time the fronts would be 0.0 (which of course is bloody stupid for real world physics!)

This was before the camber update. After that, 0.5-0.7 rear camber was fastest.

 

[GTAndy36]

This was before the camber update. After that, 0.5-0.7 rear camber was fastest.

When was the camber update... cos I still tune to 0.0 cos it still feels the fastest for cornering, especially on the front end.

 

[psychoazubi]

When was the camber update... cos I still tune to 0.0 cos it still feels the fastest for cornering, especially on the front end.

Must have been about a year ago. Try with the GT3 cars on Bathurst/Nordschleife. There is a huge difference is handling/laptimes with 0.7 camber. Can't remember the setting for the front. Could have been -0.1

 

[Johnnypenso]

Must have been about a year ago. Try with the GT3 cars on Bathurst/Nordschleife. There is a huge difference is handling/laptimes with 0.7 camber. Can't remember the setting for the front. Could have been -0.1

Lots of testing and Motec data in this thread, all linked in the first post, and not a single person who believes camber works could provide a tune that showed it reducing lap times in any significant way:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/is-camber-fixed-discuss-it-here.321270/

 

[psychoazubi]

Lots of testing and Motec data in this thread, all linked in the first post, and not a single person who believes camber works could provide a tune that showed it reducing lap times in any significant way:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/is-camber-fixed-discuss-it-here.321270/

Well, I was around 1 sec/lap faster with this settings and that's all that counts for me. But as I don't play Gt6 anymore, can't say how it is now

Edit: Had a look into your thread. Our online league was April-September 2014, so before the 1.15 update

 

[GTAndy36]

Either way... it's still broken!

 

[bleeder]

i was just wondering if there was a setting where you can run full mechanical damage but not physical so the car always looked new even if you'd taken a beating and the thing was about to die?

 

[FuriousDemon]

i was just wondering if there was a setting where you can run full mechanical damage but not physical so the car always looked new even if you'd taken a beating and the thing was about to die?

Don't think that's possible.

 

[bleeder]

Don't think that's possible.

ok thanks. just a thought.

 

[JJJnC]

So.. is this sim-cade?
That's what I've been hearing but it's from mostly AC/rFactor biased people...
But then the pCARS biased are saying it's simulation.

I'm just so confused. Please, can an unbiased party give it to me straight?

 

[Johnnypenso]

So.. is this sim-cade?
That's what I've been hearing but it's from mostly AC/rFactor biased people...
But then the pCARS biased are saying it's simulation.

I'm just so confused. Please, can an unbiased party give it to me straight?

Anyone who really would know the answer would have to have access to the game and all the various builds which means a Project Cars Team Member. I'd suggest to read the first few pages of this thread and if you have any specific questions ask them here.

 

[LogiForce]

So.. is this sim-cade?
That's what I've been hearing but it's from mostly AC/rFactor biased people...
But then the pCARS biased are saying it's simulation.

I'm just so confused. Please, can an unbiased party give it to me straight?

It doesn't say...

Nor does it have... Flashback/Rewind like in Codemasters games since there is no rewind on real life.


I guess that removes the '-cade' part for you.

Now as for sim... are the following more advanced than AC/rF2:

- Tyre model = YES
- Force Feedback system = YES
- Graphics = YES
- Weather = YES
- Throttle control = YES
- Forced Induction modelling = YES

I could go on, but I think that this game is without any doubt within every atom of my body that this game tries its best to simulate a racing environment. Which means it simulates everything needed for you to experience the joys of racing a seemingly real copy of a race car on an as closely as possible replicated track... all within the constraints of time and money available, of course.


Honest... if people say this game is simcade compared to AC or rF2 than I can just say one thing. They probably don't have a drivers license, since they can't even judge what's real and what not in a well enough manner.
I am not saying with that that AC or rF2 are simcade either, as they are sims as well. I am just saying that if you do not know what a real car feels like below, on or over the limit than it will be hard to judge a game's simulation capabilities as you don't have the slightest hint to recognize what should and should not be simulated. After all it is re-cognition... 'the identification of something as having been previously seen, heard, known, etc.'.
So to be able to judge if a game is properly simulating a car in its most basic form, you should first be able to recognize its inherent basic features that are to be simulate. After that it gets harder as you have to be able to judge a car based on its character... how it behaves/acts under certain circumstances.

This is exactly why Ben Collins is valuable to the project, as he has driven probably more cars than anyone else on this planet. So he is able to recognize all those little character traits of a car and tell the developers what's right or wrong. Which he did and wasn't ashamed to speak his mind if something was way off.
The same goes for all the other pro-drivers that have been with the project.




Here's a little test for you if you drive a car, JJJnC.
Just go for a drive and really and purely concentrate on what your hands are feeling when keeping the wheel straight.
Once you've done that, I want you to use one hand to grab a part of the dashboard. Now try to focus on what you feel through both the wheel and the dashboard.
What you will feel is the resonance of the vibrations that carry through the chassis. From the suspension, engine, gearbox, fuelpump in the back, exhaust, and so on.
Those vibrations are NOT IMPORTANT for proper reproduction of force feedback that influences you as a driver to control your vehicle. What you need is the vibrations and push that comes from the steering rack.

First I want you to grab a hold of your shifter stick, if you have a manual H-pattern that is. Again recognize the type of vibration in both hands. This vibration can also be ignored in the force feedback reproduction.

Both of these vibrations, suspension, engine and gearbox vibrations, should be replicated via Simvibe. The buttkickers would shake your rig like it all does your cars chassis in real life.

Now onto what you should be feeling. If you've filtered all of the vibrations out mentally and you try to 'feel' a little deeper, than you'll notice the feedback coming from the above.
Basically in a sim rig situation it would look like the following. The steering wheel base has a FFB-Motor and a Position-Sensor. These two are basically your "Pinion" as in the diagram. They are driven by the "Rack" and turn your wheel.
The "Rack" in the above is the same as the force feedback signal coming from your game. This "Rack" in a real car is being pushed either left or right by the movement of the wheels pushing the "Tie-Rods" either way. A force feedback signal is the same, it can only tell the "Pinion" that is our FFB-Motor to turn left or right. Which is the only thing a "Pinion" can do in real life as well... turn left/right as the "Rack" commands.

That explained. While still driving your real car I want you to grip the wheel lightly with both hands, still forgetting all those vibrations from earlier.
Now if you turn the wheel on a round-a-about I want you to focus on how the resistance builds up as you turn-in, but fades away again slightly as you keep the turn. This initial fade-in and slight fade-out of resistance is the movement of the sidewall, which acts as an elastic band between the metal alloy rim and the tyre thread that grips the road surface.
The remaining force you feel as you turn is the tyre trying to self-align again and keep going forward. It's the self-aligning torque. Which can be influenced by wheel alignment.

I will leave it at that for now, but those are a few basics you should recognize via a game. The others would mean you have to drive violently on the public roads, which isn't advised.

What I can tell you is that the central point between your front wheels is the pivot point for the car as it will oversteer.
Now as you've felt that self-aligning torque in real life. You can imagine this going light and in the opposite way all of a sudden during oversteer.
This is because as the rear tyres loose grip and start to try to overtake the front wheels because of centrifugal force pushing the weight of the car towards the outside of the track. The front wheels still have full grip, so they wish to go straight no matter what due to their self-aligning nature.
As the front tyres refurces to turn, the chassis starts to roll the "Pinion" across the "Rack" as the "Steering Shaft" is attached to your chassis.
In other words your chassis, and everything attached to it, is moving independent of the front wheels. The front wheels are the only "loose wheels" on a vehicle that are attached via a series of rods called "Tie-Rod" and "Rack" which move freely.
Just try to jack up both front wheels and try to move one wheel by hand, provided you remove the steering lock from your steering wheel first. Notice how easy it is to move your steering wheel via your front wheel.
If you now try to imagine the weight of your vehicle plus centrifugal force pushing that weight to the outside of the track, and how much force will be turning the wheel at such a time.
My car is 1100kg and that's quite a lot of weight trying to turn a steering wheel. Hence we have something like power assisted steering racks these days even in racing. It makes it a bit easier on the wrists.
This is also exactly why you should let go of the wheel during a crash. If the steering assembly with the "Rack" gets pushed one way or the other suddenly, it could break your hands easily.

So in short, for feeling oversteer naturally via force feedback you only need to simulate the "Rack and Pinion" connection properly. As you might learned from listening/feeling your own car, some things can be very harshly and very subtly communicated via the force feedback at the same time. Those little details are hard to get right when simulating this in a half-assed manner in a racing game.

Heck, you should even be able to feel compression upon the steering wheel. This due to how the tie-rods move as they are connected to the spindles behind the tyres. So if both tyres move up and down simultaniously it increases the strain on the linkages. You can very subtly and shortly feel this when going over speed bumps.
A classic place for me to test this in games would be the dip in Fuchsrörhe at the Nordschleife. You get some big compression there, and the steering wheel really tightens up.


So is Project CARS a sim? Well, it is able to simulate a "Rack and Pinion" system properly through the force feedback system. Which in return gives you lots of connection with the car and a lot of immersion.
Of course it can not move the "Rack" around properly without simulating the tyres properly. So it does have a state-of-the-art tyre model as well, that simulates tyre behavior from standstill to infinitive high speeds. Whereas other tyre models either use a simplified tyre model at slow speeds (AC) or use a fixed table of data for grip levels (rF2).

I dunno... even with those two things I think Project CARS looks like it is pretty much a sim to me. Than we haven't even talked about weather and so on.


I'd say... just wait until launch and just buy it. No matter what it's a game that should have a place in between AC, rF2 and all the others. It offers a different approach than the other two, and thus will compliment your games list perfectly.
While it is a lot of marketing to say we wish to be the best (who doesn't wish to be?), but I think it would be fair to say that Project CARS will have its own place within the entire sim racing games industry and with that it compliments all the other games.
Like everyone else I think we all tend to play different games at different times for different reasons. One game because of its modding community, the other because of its great road cars, one other because of its laser scanned tracks. You name it... there are tons of reasons why we would boot up different games when we feel like it.

So Project CARS will simply be a must-have simulation racing game that should be in the games collection of every sim racing enthusiast, along with all the other great titles of the past... present and future.



/END OF RANT

 

[Wolfe]

With everything else the game promises, to me, PCARS won't even need to be a groundbreaking simulator to be a groundbreaking racing game, as long as the handling is well-sorted, predictable, and fun to play. It's better to keep my expectations grounded in terms of realism/physics, anyhow.

 

[Timppaq]

So.. is this sim-cade?
That's what I've been hearing but it's from mostly AC/rFactor biased people...
But then the pCARS biased are saying it's simulation.

I'm just so confused. Please, can an unbiased party give it to me straight?

It's as deep simulation as is all things considered possible atm, ie. very deep. And it will go much deeper when pcars2 hits the shelves

Will you like it? Don't know and it's for you to find out. Maybe yes maybe no.

 

[GumShoe]

So.. is this sim-cade?
That's what I've been hearing but it's from mostly AC/rFactor biased people...
But then the pCARS biased are saying it's simulation.

I'm just so confused. Please, can an unbiased party give it to me straight?

First, define 'Simcade'?

I've seen quite a few recent comments that AC is easier to drive/has more grip than Project CARS. Especially the P1 just released is apparently super grippy.

Most of us don't have real life racing as a frame of reference, so if it feels good just enjoy it! Don't worry too much about what others think The physics simulation itself is top notch and very deep: how that actually feels to each individual is subjective.

I'll say one thing, personally the immersion in the cockpit when racing in Project CARS leaves the competition in the dust, imo of course.

 

[Johnnypenso]

...snip...
Both of these vibrations, suspension, engine and gearbox vibrations, should be replicated via Simvibe. The buttkickers would shake your rig like it all does your cars chassis in real life. ...snip...

<<<for the whole of the post.

Speaking of SimVibe, has the game been designed with tactile feedback in mind? How well does it work?

 

[blowfishrulez]

<<<for the whole of the post.

Speaking of SimVibe, has the game been designed with tactile feedback in mind? How well does it work?

Afaik, simvibe consists of a additional sound card that transformes certain ranges of the audible spectrum into vibrations of their transducers. Therefore it is pretty much independent of the Simulation used. Please correct me if im missing something here.

 

[LogiForce]

<<<for the whole of the post.

Speaking of SimVibe, has the game been designed with tactile feedback in mind? How well does it work?

I will have to leave that question to another WMD member, unfortunately. This because of two things.

1. I only have half a chassis-mode setup. Meaning I only have the left and right front channels bonded into one tactile speaker, and both rear channels for one tactile speaker on the rear of my rig.
2. I have not used Simvibe in a long time as I've only been concentrating on physics and FFB. Shame on me maybe?


So yeah, I will have to give this question to someone else with a full 4 tactile transducer chassis mode Simvibe setup. Sorry.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I will have to leave that question to another WMD member, unfortunately. This because of two things.

1. I only have half a chassis-mode setup. Meaning I only have the left and right front channels bonded into one tactile speaker, and both rear channels for one tactile speaker on the rear of my rig.
2. I have not used Simvibe in a long time as I've only been concentrating on physics and FFB. Shame on me maybe?


So yeah, I will have to give this question to someone else with a full 4 tactile transducer chassis mode Simvibe setup. Sorry.

Can you comment on whether the game has been designed with tactile in mind?

Afaik, simvibe consists of a additional sound card that transformes certain ranges of the audible spectrum into vibrations of their transducers. Therefore it is pretty much independent of the Simulation used. Please correct me if im missing something here.

I actually don't know much about it but I think what you're describing is more along the lines of a buttkicker that works off turning the low frequencies into tactile. I would assume that if a game is designed with tactile in mind, it would be outputting some kind of discrete signal that tells the transducers what is happening with the game and you could be able to dial in or out vibrations from tires, chassis, shifter, brake etc.

 

[LogiForce]

Afaik, simvibe consists of a additional sound card that transformes certain ranges of the audible spectrum into vibrations of their transducers. Therefore it is pretty much independent of the Simulation used. Please correct me if im missing something here.

Indeed. Simvibe is basically a noise generator that generates noises based on the game's telemetry, which is available via the game's API. The API which is used for mobile device dash and telemetry software, and so on.
The noise generates an up and down stroke of the cone of the buttkicker or other transducer. This stroke's resonance travels through the material of which it is attached to, which you'll feel in sync with what you see. If all goes well that is.

Basically in short Simvibe is just a tone generator for game telemetry used to drive silent subwoofers to vibrate whatever those speakers are attached to. Of course different speakers have different frequency ranges and power ratings, differing the type of vibration and intensity of vibration from model to model.

 

[LogiForce]

Can you comment on whether the game has been designed with tactile in mind?

The game hasn't been designed with tactile in mind. The game has been designed to simulate a car, including its suspension movements. These suspension movements (among other sources for other vibrations) are output to an API which is used by Simvibe to generate the vibrations one would expect in return.

What I mean to say is that while the game is 'only' designed to simulate a vehicle on a racing track in as much detail as possible, when this data is output via the API as 'telemetry' for Simvibe it should feel as good as in any other game.

That said I know Berney from SimXperience has worked (and most likely still does) together with Slightly Mad Studios to get a good working vibe going.

 

[InSight]

So.. is this sim-cade?
That's what I've been hearing but it's from mostly AC/rFactor biased people...
But then the pCARS biased are saying it's simulation.

I'm just so confused. Please, can an unbiased party give it to me straight?

This gif is as hilarious as it is real:

 

[GranTurismo guy]

It doesn't say...

Nor does it have... Flashback/Rewind like in Codemasters games since there is no rewind on real life.


I guess that removes the '-cade' part for you.

Now as for sim... are the following more advanced than AC/rF2:

- Tyre model = YES
- Force Feedback system = YES
- Graphics = YES
- Weather = YES
- Throttle control = YES
- Forced Induction modelling = YES

I could go on, but I think that this game is without any doubt within every atom of my body that this game tries its best to simulate a racing environment. Which means it simulates everything needed for you to experience the joys of racing a seemingly real copy of a race car on an as closely as possible replicated track... all within the constraints of time and money available, of course.


Honest... if people say this game is simcade compared to AC or rF2 than I can just say one thing. They probably don't have a drivers license, since they can't even judge what's real and what not in a well enough manner.
I am not saying with that that AC or rF2 are simcade either, as they are sims as well. I am just saying that if you do not know what a real car feels like below, on or over the limit than it will be hard to judge a game's simulation capabilities as you don't have the slightest hint to recognize what should and should not be simulated. After all it is re-cognition... 'the identification of something as having been previously seen, heard, known, etc.'.
So to be able to judge if a game is properly simulating a car in its most basic form, you should first be able to recognize its inherent basic features that are to be simulate. After that it gets harder as you have to be able to judge a car based on its character... how it behaves/acts under certain circumstances.

This is exactly why Ben Collins is valuable to the project, as he has driven probably more cars than anyone else on this planet. So he is able to recognize all those little character traits of a car and tell the developers what's right or wrong. Which he did and wasn't ashamed to speak his mind if something was way off.
The same goes for all the other pro-drivers that have been with the project.




Here's a little test for you if you drive a car, JJJnC.
Just go for a drive and really and purely concentrate on what your hands are feeling when keeping the wheel straight.
Once you've done that, I want you to use one hand to grab a part of the dashboard. Now try to focus on what you feel through both the wheel and the dashboard.
What you will feel is the resonance of the vibrations that carry through the chassis. From the suspension, engine, gearbox, fuelpump in the back, exhaust, and so on.
Those vibrations are NOT IMPORTANT for proper reproduction of force feedback that influences you as a driver to control your vehicle. What you need is the vibrations and push that comes from the steering rack.

First I want you to grab a hold of your shifter stick, if you have a manual H-pattern that is. Again recognize the type of vibration in both hands. This vibration can also be ignored in the force feedback reproduction.

Both of these vibrations, suspension, engine and gearbox vibrations, should be replicated via Simvibe. The buttkickers would shake your rig like it all does your cars chassis in real life.

Now onto what you should be feeling. If you've filtered all of the vibrations out mentally and you try to 'feel' a little deeper, than you'll notice the feedback coming from the above.
Basically in a sim rig situation it would look like the following. The steering wheel base has a FFB-Motor and a Position-Sensor. These two are basically your "Pinion" as in the diagram. They are driven by the "Rack" and turn your wheel.
The "Rack" in the above is the same as the force feedback signal coming from your game. This "Rack" in a real car is being pushed either left or right by the movement of the wheels pushing the "Tie-Rods" either way. A force feedback signal is the same, it can only tell the "Pinion" that is our FFB-Motor to turn left or right. Which is the only thing a "Pinion" can do in real life as well... turn left/right as the "Rack" commands.

That explained. While still driving your real car I want you to grip the wheel lightly with both hands, still forgetting all those vibrations from earlier.
Now if you turn the wheel on a round-a-about I want you to focus on how the resistance builds up as you turn-in, but fades away again slightly as you keep the turn. This initial fade-in and slight fade-out of resistance is the movement of the sidewall, which acts as an elastic band between the metal alloy rim and the tyre thread that grips the road surface.
The remaining force you feel as you turn is the tyre trying to self-align again and keep going forward. It's the self-aligning torque. Which can be influenced by wheel alignment.

I will leave it at that for now, but those are a few basics you should recognize via a game. The others would mean you have to drive violently on the public roads, which isn't advised.

What I can tell you is that the central point between your front wheels is the pivot point for the car as it will oversteer.
Now as you've felt that self-aligning torque in real life. You can imagine this going light and in the opposite way all of a sudden during oversteer.
This is because as the rear tyres loose grip and start to try to overtake the front wheels because of centrifugal force pushing the weight of the car towards the outside of the track. The front wheels still have full grip, so they wish to go straight no matter what due to their self-aligning nature.
As the front tyres refurces to turn, the chassis starts to roll the "Pinion" across the "Rack" as the "Steering Shaft" is attached to your chassis.
In other words your chassis, and everything attached to it, is moving independent of the front wheels. The front wheels are the only "loose wheels" on a vehicle that are attached via a series of rods called "Tie-Rod" and "Rack" which move freely.
Just try to jack up both front wheels and try to move one wheel by hand, provided you remove the steering lock from your steering wheel first. Notice how easy it is to move your steering wheel via your front wheel.
If you now try to imagine the weight of your vehicle plus centrifugal force pushing that weight to the outside of the track, and how much force will be turning the wheel at such a time.
My car is 1100kg and that's quite a lot of weight trying to turn a steering wheel. Hence we have something like power assisted steering racks these days even in racing. It makes it a bit easier on the wrists.
This is also exactly why you should let go of the wheel during a crash. If the steering assembly with the "Rack" gets pushed one way or the other suddenly, it could break your hands easily.

So in short, for feeling oversteer naturally via force feedback you only need to simulate the "Rack and Pinion" connection properly. As you might learned from listening/feeling your own car, some things can be very harshly and very subtly communicated via the force feedback at the same time. Those little details are hard to get right when simulating this in a half-assed manner in a racing game.

Heck, you should even be able to feel compression upon the steering wheel. This due to how the tie-rods move as they are connected to the spindles behind the tyres. So if both tyres move up and down simultaniously it increases the strain on the linkages. You can very subtly and shortly feel this when going over speed bumps.
A classic place for me to test this in games would be the dip in Fuchsrörhe at the Nordschleife. You get some big compression there, and the steering wheel really tightens up.


So is Project CARS a sim? Well, it is able to simulate a "Rack and Pinion" system properly through the force feedback system. Which in return gives you lots of connection with the car and a lot of immersion.
Of course it can not move the "Rack" around properly without simulating the tyres properly. So it does have a state-of-the-art tyre model as well, that simulates tyre behavior from standstill to infinitive high speeds. Whereas other tyre models either use a simplified tyre model at slow speeds (AC) or use a fixed table of data for grip levels (rF2).

I dunno... even with those two things I think Project CARS looks like it is pretty much a sim to me. Than we haven't even talked about weather and so on.


I'd say... just wait until launch and just buy it. No matter what it's a game that should have a place in between AC, rF2 and all the others. It offers a different approach than the other two, and thus will compliment your games list perfectly.
While it is a lot of marketing to say we wish to be the best (who doesn't wish to be?), but I think it would be fair to say that Project CARS will have its own place within the entire sim racing games industry and with that it compliments all the other games.
Like everyone else I think we all tend to play different games at different times for different reasons. One game because of its modding community, the other because of its great road cars, one other because of its laser scanned tracks. You name it... there are tons of reasons why we would boot up different games when we feel like it.

So Project CARS will simply be a must-have simulation racing game that should be in the games collection of every sim racing enthusiast, along with all the other great titles of the past... present and future.



/END OF RANT

What SMS have done on their budget really puts all the other developers to shame. They have no excuses anymore!

 

[LogiForce]

What SMS have done on their budget really puts all the other developers to shame. They have no excuses anymore!

Especially considering the size of the team, as each employee needs to be payed so they can feed their families and pay the bills. Which means that even less money is available for the project itself (licensing, marketing, buying PS4/XB1 dev kits, etc).

It really is a shoe string budget for a title of this magnitude. Just think of what can be achieved for pCARS 2 if this game sells well.

 

[c172fccc]

This gif is as hilarious as it is real

Well, thanks!

 

[JJJnC]

/END OF RANT

I'm absolutely flattered if you wrote that all just for me. WITH visual aids? Oh my.
I guess this answers my question in the most thorough manner and I'm very appreciative.
Now... can you teach me how to drive?

It's as deep simulation as is all things considered possible atm, ie. very deep. And it will go much deeper when pcars2 hits the shelves

Will you like it? Don't know and it's for you to find out. Maybe yes maybe no.

that's deep.

First, define 'Simcade'?

I've seen quite a few recent comments that AC is easier to drive/has more grip than Project CARS. Especially the P1 just released is apparently super grippy.

Most of us don't have real life racing as a frame of reference, so if it feels good just enjoy it! Don't worry too much about what others think The physics simulation itself is top notch and very deep: how that actually feels to each individual is subjective.

I'll say one thing, personally the immersion in the cockpit when racing in Project CARS leaves the competition in the dust, imo of course.

I would have tried to enjoy the game even if it were arcade so don't worry the peer pressure wasn't getting to me. I've just heard many 'versions' of what this game is like.

And I've seen cockpit pics and it looks gorgeous. This game really is some nice eye candy.

This gif is as hilarious as it is real:

Am... am I suppose to be the girl or an impartial party watching this in some sort of 'fly on the wall' hell? doomed to an existence were no one will ever be aware of me?!?! forced to sit there and watch people speculate about pCARS while waiting for it's release? a helpless casualty of brand loyalty brain-wash.

Funny gif though. Numbers are a little askew but there definitely is a bias in the community.

 

[Timppaq]

Glad you now understand.