Plane crash in Southern France.

[TenEightyOne]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/11/europe/germanwings-co-pilot-andreas-lubitz-doctors/index.html

I think the reports of the psychosomasis were back in March?

 

[TenEightyOne]

French investigators have revealed that, several weeks before the crash, Lubitz was advised to attend a psychiatric hospital. His airline was not informed, the French investigators say that this protocol is something that needs to change. BBC.

 

[ECGadget]

French investigators have revealed that, several weeks before the crash, Lubitz was advised to attend a psychiatric hospital. His airline was not informed, the French investigators say that this protocol is something that needs to change. BBC.

I think pilot confidentiality should be respected. However, I also feel that doctors should have the right to relieve a pilot and inform the airline that they are being relieved on medical grounds, nothing more.

 

[Swagger897]

Yeah part of me is sitting here like "what's the point of even having medical checks, if they're only 3-8 years apart (age restrictions) and if the eye examination is the only thing the airliners care about..."

 

[DQuaN]

This seems pretty stupid.

My mother works in mental health. She always upholds patient confidentiality, UNLESS she deems the patient likeley to harm either themselves or others.

Patient confidentiality isn't the issue here.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Patient confidentiality isn't the issue here.

Well... that's the question. If they'd suspected that he'd go on to commit this mass murder then don't they have a duty to act? He killed many children, that would already give a duty to act under UK law.

In this case he was

likeley to harm either themselves or others.

so why is it

stupid(?)

 

[DQuaN]

Because the news is saying people are calling for patient confidntiality to be relaxed for pilots.

It doesn't need to be. If someone is deemed as a danger, then patient confidentiality can be broken.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Because the news is saying people are calling for patient confidntiality to be relaxed for pilots.

There is certainly a case for greater psychiatric involvement. If there wasn't then surely the German pilots' union wouldn't be supporting the recommendations?

 

[DQuaN]

There is certainly a case for greater psychiatric involvement. If there wasn't then surely the German pilots' union wouldn't be supporting the recommendations?

More invoivement of course. Better diagnosis, more widely accessble mental health care, more support.

It's just that I don't think patient confidentiality is the issue and lots of people are saying it is.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It's just that I don't think patient confidentiality is the issue and lots of people are saying it is.

Of course it is. He suffered a depressive psychotic episode and the doctors' hands were tied when it came to informing his employer.

 

[DQuaN]

Of course it is. He suffered a depressive psychotic episode and the doctors' hands were tied when it came to informing his employer.

Employer yes. Police, mental health departments, psychiatric hospitals no.

Which, if they knew he was a pilot, they should have done.

 

[Swagger897]

Which, if they knew he was a pilot, they should have done.

Which is exactly the confidentiality issue he's talking about..

 

[waboo]

Yeah part of me is sitting here like "what's the point of even having medical checks, if they're only 3-8 years apart (age restrictions) and if the eye examination is the only thing the airliners care about..."

Incorrect, under EASA standards this pilot would of had to have had a yearly medical, licence proficiency check and an operational proficiency check.

That is three chances per year to catch this, let alone working in a multi crew environment we should always assess those around us. If you are a professional pilot this is an absolute.

The very fact that he was advised to seek help is enough to pull his ticket and put him on the ground....

I have worked with a pilot, we all knew he was a bit 'different'... rich kid bad attitude etc, would sulk if he didn't get his way. We all reported this to the relevant managers etc. Subsequently made quite a few judgement calls that led to damages etc etc.

The FAA has the IMSAFE model and should be used not just daily but 72 hrs ahead thinking about how you will be able to perform whatever functions you do, be it recreational or commercial flying, not only for yourself but those around you also.

There are a multitude of ways to kill yourself in aviation and what we have in this instance is information freely observable and documented not passed on or acted on, probably for fear of financial/career threatening reprisals.

This brings into question the culture of a company and even a society as a whole, until that changes a few 'bad eggs' will slip through the net and people will keep dying.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The FAA has the IMSAFE model and should be used not just daily but 72 hrs ahead thinking about how you will be able to perform whatever functions you do, be it recreational or commercial flying, not only for yourself but those around you also.

I think it's safe to say a number of things in this case. The pilot clearly, from what we know, should have had self-concerns under I, M, S and E. Probably F and possibly A. However, we also know that he was a psychotic depressive - suddenly it seems like self-evaluation only works in the domain of mentally responsible pilots.

It seems that once this pilot successfully completed his training (and there were warning signs his first failed phase) that his operational checks-and-rides were all good. The people with the knowledge that should have stopped him flying were legally unable to say anything to the people who would have stopped him flying. That's the difficult issue here and the solution, whatever it is, will be equally difficult to frame.

 

[Liquid]

The relatives of 80 victims of 4U925 are suing the flight school which taught Andreas Lubitz to fly. The legal bid involves lawyers from Germany, the Netherlands and the UK and is based on the accusation that the flight school was negligent in failing to screen Lubitz and addressing his mental health issues, which are now known to have been great in their severity and amplified by the stresses a commercial pilot faces.

Investigators found that weeks before the crash a doctor had urged him to attend a psychiatric hospital but his employer was never alerted.

Link

 

[Dennisch]

Lubitz is the only guilty party in this case. There aren't going to be any further investigations.

Case closed.

Insert CSI gif.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Case closed.

AV Herald (usually quite sane and reasoned) raise some interesting questions about the evidence and the investigation. Of particular note are previous malfunctions with the cockpit lock/unlock system and seemingly impossible FDR data regarding autopilot modes.

They've raised their questions with the relative authorities but no further comment will be made as the case is closed.

http://avherald.com/h?article=483a5651/0158&opt=3584