Plane crash in Southern France.

[Swagger897]

CNN says it's not public yet as of a few hours ago. They are only reporting that it exists and that the video is very chaotic and that it's hard to make any visuals out, but the sound is revealing. I must say it's quite odd how much information is being leaked out at this point. How the heck does a news outlet get their hands on video that should only be in the hands of investigators at this point?

Note, this video below contains no plane footage, it's only CNN reporting and discussion.

yeah, the video isn't out there (from what I looked at and the source of it) but they are the source who originally reported it...

 

[TenEightyOne]

I must say it's quite odd how much information is being leaked out at this point.

It's just how the media work, you'll become used to it.

How the heck does a news outlet get their hands on video that should only be in the hands of investigators at this point?

Not just any news outlet, this is Paris Match. And this is how they do it;

EDIT: I see they're sharing the scoop with Bild... different country-of-origin but the same game rules apply.

 

[Swagger897]

It's just how the media work, you'll become used to it.



Not just any news outlet, this is Paris Match. And this is how they do it;

View attachment 341501

EDIT: I see they're sharing the scoop with Bild... different country-of-origin but the same game rules apply.

just read that the French version of the site is more accurate than the English, the main difference being that they (Match and Bild) never got their hands on it (obtained is the word they chose) but they only witnessed it...

Apparently the majors don't care about double checking when it's already done for them..

 

[TenEightyOne]

just read that the French version of the site is more accurate than the English

It is, I just read the French version and the English translation is a little misleading. You've summed it up right though

 

[mister dog]

Imagining what those poor people had to go through is horrific enough, we don't need a video that demonstrates it to be disgusted.

Sick nature of mankind i suppose, would be tough not to click on it should they put it online as we are all disaster tourists when it comes down to it...

 

[Swagger897]

Imagining what those poor people had to go through is horrific enough, we don't need a video that demonstrates it to be disgusted.

Sick nature of mankind i suppose, would be tough not to click on it should they put it online as we are all disaster tourists when it comes down to it...

Same goes for the ones who take the video rather than not (if they are present) spend the last moments with their family/loved ones...

You can't criticize for what they did though, even though I do, as we live in an age where people must share things that they don't think twice about before doing so...

 

[vasiliflame]

@vasiliflame and anyone else declaring that they will never get on a plane again - please read

The data is commercial aviation crashes for 1946 - July 2014 (after the second MH incident, the Taiwan crash and the one in Mali)

Summary:
- in terms of number of crashes for these years, the most recent in the top ten is 1972 (worst overall too)
- in terms of deaths, the most recent in the top ten is 1996
- in terms of fewest crashes, nine of the top ten are since 2003
- in terms of fewest deaths, the top 5 are since 2004

This doesn't even account for the huge increase in number of flights that occur each day.

For 2013, 1 in every 4,166,000 flights crashed. I'm happy with those odds.

I never said that I never been on a plane so it just makes me nervous if I had too

 

[Dennisch]

Good news.

The FDR has been found. 👍

 

[Swagger897]

More bad news....

Co-pilot searched for suicide and cockpit doors on the Internet (NYT).

 

[Barra333]

More bad news....

Co-pilot searched for suicide and cockpit doors on the Internet (NYT).

They got that from the FDR already?

It will be interesting to see whether there is anything salvageable on the FDR, given that it was torn from its housing.

 

[Swagger897]

They got that from the FDR already?

Assuming that is sarcasm but for those elsewhere in the world....


no.

 

[Dennisch]

They got that information from his tablet found in his home.

 

[Dennisch]

Apparently the FDR was in good enough shape to extract the data.

The co-pilot went full throttle just before the crash.

 

[unit-one]

Why did he used the autopilot to control the aircraft?

 

[mister dog]

Lubitz is a bigger mass murderer than Breivik. I hope there's a hell just so people like this get what they deserve...

Seems those folks in the first flight he was on that day to Barcelona were lucky the pilot didn't have to take a piss:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-lubitz-almost-crashed-an-earlier-flight.html

Why did he used the autopilot to control the aircraft?

Above article mentions this:

"As I have reported before, his choice of a 10-minute descent rather than a sudden nose-dive enabled him to evade a safeguard built into the Airbus’s autopilot computers that prevented extreme maneuvers."

 

[Johnnypenso]

Why did he used the autopilot to control the aircraft?

Probably because it's program one setting, new altitude 100 feet, then you don't have to do anything but sit and think about how miserable you are and why it's a good thing to kill yourself.

 

[unit-one]

Lubitz is a bigger mass murderer than Breivik. I hope there's a hell just so people like this get what they deserve...

Seems those folks in the first flight he was on that day to Barcelona were lucky the pilot didn't have to take a piss:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-lubitz-almost-crashed-an-earlier-flight.html


Above article mentions this:

"As I have reported before, his choice of a 10-minute descent rather than a sudden nose-dive enabled him to evade a safeguard built into the Airbus’s autopilot computers that prevented extreme maneuvers."

Thank you for explaining.

 

[Dennisch]

The found it because some loose gravel slid away when they were climbing through the rubble.

Incredible how those things are build.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The co-pilot went full throttle just before the crash.

This article suggests that he actually increased the auto-throttle settings (small difference, sadly the same effect).

Probably because it's program one setting, new altitude 100 feet...

Yup, and no typing even required, just a twist of a setting-knob on the central AP panel, then a twist to set the descent rate (and slowly increase it), then another to set the auto-speed.

Here's a pic of the A320's AP panel, the setting-knobs each adjust the value above them. This particular example panel is set to a speed of 110 (just an example, that's too low), a heading of 123' and is climbing to an altitude of 17000 feet at 4000 feet-per-minute (too high a rate).

Lubitz just had to twist a few buttons, somehow the simplicity makes it all the more scary

 

[Swagger897]

This article suggests that he actually increased the auto-throttle settings (small difference, sadly the same effect).



Yup, and no typing even required, just a twist of a setting-knob on the central AP panel, then a twist to set the descent rate (and slowly increase it), then another to set the auto-speed.

Here's a pic of the A320's AP panel, the setting-knobs each adjust the value above them. This particular example panel is set to a speed of 110 (just an example, that's too low), a heading of 123' and is climbing to an altitude of 17000 feet at 4000 feet-per-minute (too high a rate).

Lubitz just had to twist a few buttons, somehow the simplicity makes it all the more scary

View attachment 342907

It seems simple but aircraft rarely fly on just the MCP settings anymore... More or less they now all feature a FMC (Flight Management Computer) which the pilot and copilot each spend about 20 minutes setting up before even leaving the gate, and generally it is never finished until clearance at the center for the approach flight plan...

VNAV and LNAV (Vertical and Lateral Navigation respectively) is what is most commonly used now, and requires either selecting the SIDS and STARS (Standard Instrument Departures and Standard Terminal Arrivals) or inputting the individual flight legs in. VNAV is a world of its own though, with step climbs and what not.

The main reason why he used just the MCP (from what I have read) is that when using the V&LNAV AP functions, you must have the legs put in, and even when you put them in with speed and altitude restrictions the aircraft will avoid it completely. So yes, it is simple, but it's not impossible..

I can't imagine what he looked like if he upped the speed and just sat and crossed his arms...

 

[TenEightyOne]

It seems simple but aircraft rarely fly on just the MCP settings anymore... More or less they now all feature a FMC (Flight Management Computer) which the pilot and copilot each spend about 20 minutes setting up before even leaving the gate, and generally it is never finished until clearance at the center for the approach flight plan...

VNAV and LNAV (Vertical and Lateral Navigation respectively) is what is most commonly used now, and requires either selecting the SIDS and STARS (Standard Instrument Departures and Standard Terminal Arrivals) or inputting the individual flight legs in. VNAV is a world of its own though, with step climbs and what not.

The main reason why he used just the MCP (from what I have read) is that when using the V&LNAV AP functions, you must have the legs put in, and even when you put them in with speed and altitude restrictions the aircraft will avoid it completely. So yes, it is simple, but it's not impossible..

I can't imagine what he looked like if he upped the speed and just sat and crossed his arms...

Correct, but as you watch the AP panel you'll see it reflect the calls from the FMC (driven, as you say, by the precomputed VNAV and LNAV tracks). The pilots can override (or return to) those at any time using the central AP panel. That would be normal to do during the mid-stages of an approach, for example, while under direction from ATC. The pilot might be told to hold 6,000 on a heading of 190 and then be given clearance to 4,000 on 160. They'd make those changes on the AP panel as the V/LNAV are unable to predict the externally-communicated requirements.

The speed below 10,000 feet is easier, that would be 250kias unless directed otherwise by ATC for spacing.

On the Airbus the modes aren't actually LNAV/VNAV (that's Boeing terminology originally), the modes are Open and Managed and are selected via the Speed Hold button on the AP panel.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The search for bodies is complete, recovery teams now consider that they're simply removing wreckage.

BBC.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Lubitz "practiced a controlled descent earlier in the same day". BBC.

 

[Touring Mars]

I read an article stating this just days after the crash - it also seemed to suggest that there had been an altercation between Lubitz and another pilot, and yet no action was taken. It is surprising that there was seemingly no other mention of it until now.

 

[Soundtrack]

Apparantly responding to flight control instructions...

On the previous flight, the following facts can be noted:

ˆat 7 h 19 min 59, noises like those of the cockpit door opening then closing were recorded and corresponded to when the Captain left the cockpit; the aeroplane was then at cruise speed at flight level FL370 (37,000 ft);

ˆat 7 h 20 min 29, the flight was transferred to the Bordeaux en-route control centre and the crew was instructed to descend to flight level FL350 (35,000 ft), an instruction read back by the co-pilot;

ˆat 7 h 20 min 32, the aircraft was put into a descent to flight level FL350 , selected a few seconds earlier;

ˆˆat 7 h 20 min 50, the selected altitude decreased to 100 ft for three seconds and then increased to the maximum value of 49,000 ft and stabilized again at 35,000 ft;

ˆˆat 7 h 21 min 10, the Bordeaux control centre gave the crew the instruction to continue the descent to flight level FL210;

ˆˆat 7 h 21 min 16, the selected altitude was 21,000 ft;

ˆˆfrom 7 h 22 min 27, the selected altitude was 100 feet most of the time and changed several times until it stabilized at 25,000 ft at 7 h 24 min 13;

ˆˆat 7 h 24 min 15, the buzzer to request access to the cockpit was recorded;

ˆˆat 7 h 24 min 29 noises like those of the unlocking of the cockpit door then its opening was recorded and corresponded to the Captain’s return to the cockpit.

The input on the altitude selector seems erratic however.


Preliminary report in other languages

 

[Pupik]

49,000 feet?!? If I'm not mistaken, that sounds as if he intentionally tried to get the engines to seize.

 

[TenEightyOne]

49,000 feet?!? If I'm not mistaken, that sounds as if he intentionally tried to get the engines to seize.

I think that's where he set the max, doing so (and setting the V/S) would stop the aircraft from automatically decreasing the V/S as it approached target altitude. Basically by aiming way past the target you get to keep full control of the vertical speed.

 

[Swagger897]

I think that's where he set the max, doing so (and setting the V/S) would stop the aircraft from automatically decreasing the V/S as it approached target altitude. Basically by aiming way past the target you get to keep full control of the vertical speed.

My thought at first was he could have just twisted the knobs a bit too far at first because there is an initial spike, then a small drop, and then maintained the altitude they were at...

 

[Pupik]

I think that's where he set the max, doing so (and setting the V/S) would stop the aircraft from automatically decreasing the V/S as it approached target altitude. Basically by aiming way past the target you get to keep full control of the vertical speed.

Gotcha - that makes more sense; otherwise it would have descended far too rapid for the timeline.

 

[Johnnypenso]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/11/europe/germanwings-co-pilot-andreas-lubitz-doctors/index.html

Lubitz, 27, told one of his doctors that he had consulted numerous eye doctors and numerous neurologists, Robin said. And during the five years leading up to the crash, he consulted a total of 41 physicians, Robin said. Lubitz, according to the prosecutor, feared he was losing his sight and suffered from severe depression involving "psychosis accompanied by vision problems," according to CNN affiliate BFMTV.

He indicated to those who were close to him that "life no longer had any meaning considering the loss of his eyesight," Robin said. And he had complained to doctors that he saw only "30 to 35 percent of objects in dark," saw light flashes and couldn't sleep because of his vision problems, according to the prosecutor. In March, a European government official who'd been briefed on the investigation told CNN that after Lubitz complained about vision problems, an eye doctor diagnosed him with a psychosomatic disorder and gave him an "unfit for work" note.