Political Correctness

[squadops]

That is a way bit of exaggeration DK, slavery would have ended in time. States rights were annihilated in the process of the civil war, that is a fact, but in truth power was stripped from property owners producing products and given to bankers who funded railroads. Our country has been through a bunch but flying some colors should not be judged by those who do not understand. I was born in the north east and I fly a rebel flag for reasons having zero to do with slavery thank you very much lol.

I thought we went all around that flag issue a few years back anyway.

 

[InSight]

They're not banning the Confederate flag. Some states that fly it from state buildings (you know, public property) are removing it because of pressure from constituents. I won't shed a tear for it, mainly because I don't kid myself with the delusion that the Confederacy fought for "state's rights" in and of itself, but rather the right to retain slavery within their states.

A repeal of the 1st and 2nd Amendments have as much chance as passing as Rick Perry has of passing a middle school biology test.

You can't buy it anywhere anymore, production is stopped, all orders canceled. That sounds like ban to me...

 

[Joel]

You can't buy it anywhere anymore, production is stopped, all orders canceled. That sounds like ban to me...

Retailers have voluntarily decided to stop selling them. If that's a ban then I decided to ban myself from eating peanut butter this morning when I chose to put jam on my toast instead.

 

[squadops]

Well, did they bow to PC gone mad or are they simple businessmen smart enough not to produce a product there is no market for?

I just now tied an oversized one to the roll bar of my lifted YJ jeep
no really, I just did.

 

[Joel]

Well, did they bow to PC gone mad or are they simple businessmen smart enough not to produce a product there is no market for?

I just now tied an oversized one to the roll bar of my lifted YJ jeep
no really, I just did.

Deciding not to display or sell a flag which represents people who literally fought a war against the United States to continue the practice of slavery is not "PC gone mad".

And that's great, you're free to do so. Just like I'm free to conclude at best you're completely tone deaf.

 

[squadops]

You should read more

 

[Joel]

You should read more

Oh right the war was about states rights, how could I forget. All that slavery stuff was just busywork.

 

[squadops]

The war was about neither slavery nor states rights, it was about political power, seriously I'm not being rude... You should read a bit before posting nonsense.

As for states rights...

the power she possessed of protecting herself before the equilibrium of the two sections was destroyed.

That was a request from a smart southern man and it would have avoided a very bloody war.

 

[Luminis]

The war was about neither slavery nor states rights, it was about political power, seriously I'm not being rude... You should read a bit before posting nonsense.

Question as an outsider.

Does it really matter what the war was about? Reason I'm asking is that what matters (imho) is what the flag symbolizes today. Outside view, so probably off, but the confederate flag isn't exactly a symbol of tolerance, is it? That's the impression you'd get around here, at the very least.

 

[Joel]

The war was about neither slavery nor states rights, it was about political power, seriously I'm not being rude... You should read a bit before posting nonsense..

That's a cop-out, you could say this about essentially every war. WW1 was about political power and allegiances. WW2 was about political power in continental Europe and the Pacific. The Korean war was about political power in Asia. The Cold War was about political power. Afghanistan, Iraq-Iran, Iraq wars 1 and 2, all about political power. The Ukranian civil war/occupation of Crimea is about political power. That doesn't change the goals of the people with the political power, or what the political power was to be used for.

Does it really matter what the war was about? Reason I'm asking is that what matters (imho) is what the flag symbolizes today. Outside view, so probably off, but the confederate flag isn't exactly a symbol of tolerance, is it? That's the impression you'd get around here, at the very least.

This is what I meant by tone deaf. If you think people look at that flag and understand flying it as a message about political power, states rights, railroads, and bankers, I don't know what to tell you. It reminds me of people trying to say the Swastika is actually a Buddhist symbol of good fortune.

 

[squadops]

I can only speak for myself but it's a confident statement that I know I am not alone in saying...

We do not like a large federal government, rather prefer to retain power in smaller entities that can be better influenced by constituencies within the framework of the constitution. I fly the flag against all the bs laws people like baby Bush and Obama pass with a stroke of a pen.

I hope that answered to some degree 👍

 

[Joel]

I can only speak for myself but it's a confident statement that I know I am not alone in saying...

We do not like a large federal government, rather prefer to retain power in smaller entities that can be better influenced by constituencies within the framework of the constitution. I fly the flag against all the bs laws people like baby Bush and Obama pass with a stroke of a pen.

I hope that answered to some degree 👍

I get it and I understand your opinion, I'm a libertarian too. But that is absolutely not what the flag has come to symbolize and that's not the message people are receiving when they see it. I'm sure you don't fly the flag as a symbol of hatred and I believe you when you say it's not done out of malice. But I have a hard time believing people understand that or think of that when they see it on your truck.

 

[InSight]

Well, did they bow to PC gone mad or are they simple businessmen smart enough not to produce a product there is no market for?

I just now tied an oversized one to the roll bar of my lifted YJ jeep
no really, I just did.

Be careful, PC brigades will call you racist and terrorist. Let us know how it goes, i'm curious.

 

[squadops]

You are simply a big government fan from Canada as near I can tell, what people like me fight the most is the lack of personal responsibilities required by the people to allow us to preserve our freedoms as a whole. It has to be fair to say you are a socialist willing to give things away for a better good that you perceive while I do not. My battle will be lost in complacency and now I'm not even allowed to fly some colors?

common now noob

 

[Scaff]

What I find most spectacularly odd is that the flag in question was never the Confederate States flag, but rather the battle flag of the Army of North Virginia.

 

[FoolKiller]

Sadly, all the good government protest flags from history have been stolen by nut job groups that make you look like you are saying something you aren't.

I personally like the Gadsden flag, but the Tea Party's done gone and ruined that.

 

[squadops]

There are a few different flags you could fly giving the same meaning, non of which represent slavery or necessarily battle cries. As an American seeing what and why I just thought I'd chime in to explain but it doesn't seem to sink in for whatever reason.

It is a symbol of freedom when the ol' bessy falls short. Our fathers said no to England just so we could say yes to an even more tyrannical gov it seems to some of us, that is all it means. The labels and whatever else are just silly imo.

 

[Joel]

You are simply a big government fan from Canada as near I can tell

Curious how you came to this conclusion given that it's pretty much the complete opposite of my views. What have I said which supports the idea that I'm a big government fan? There's more to political views than liberal/conservative. I think you'd find we agree on quite a lot of things, from guns, to (supporting the lack of) socialized medicine, and general government spending.

I don't think the government should be taking people's flags, or should be banning any flags. The government shouldn't be banning any speech and flags fall under that. I'm also free to think the flag symbolizes an ugly past and it's not something I would display myself, and I'm free to have a negative opinion of what the flag symbolizes. No government involved there.

, what people like me fight the most is the lack of personal responsibilities required by the people to allow us to preserve our freedoms as a hole. It has to be fair to say you are a socialist willing to give things away for a better good that you perceive while I do not. My battle will be lost in complacency and now I'm not even allowed to fly some colors?

common now noob

It's not fair at all. What am I talking about giving away for a better good? Have I said government or police should take the flags away? What have I said which makes you think I'm a socialist?

 

[GTsail]

The war was about neither slavery nor states rights, it was about political power, seriously I'm not being rude... You should read a bit before posting nonsense.

OK, lets read the State of Mississippi's declaration:

Declaration of Secession: Mississippi

The second paragraph says:

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery -- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin."

To me, the above paragraph, strongly indicates that Mississippi's secession was in large part, a desire to continue the institution of slavery.

Do you read this another way?

GTsail

 

[squadops]

Well you either refuse to recognize what the flag means or you like straw men :dk:

Lets go back to the original statement that stirred the pot, should I be allowed to fly the flag?

To me, the above paragraph, strongly indicates that Mississippi's secession was in large part, a desire to continue the institution of slavery.

Do you read this another way?

GTsail

Yes I do see it in another way, or I should say, in a looking toward the future sort of way. I will stand by my assertion GT.

Even Jefferson owned but hated to, slaves. The concept would have gone away peacefully in time imo. I hope you understand that I am saying much more was at stake then a practice that was doomed to die and rightfully so. Evil necessities I suppose, however, power grabs created by over reaction do not sit well with me.

What An irony that we preached equality and owned slaves at the same time, I contend that time can heal many wounds.

 

[Luminis]

I hope that answered to some degree 👍

It does, to a degree. Thanks for that 👍

However, if it is strongly associated with, say, slavery or simply racism or intolerance (rightfully or otherwise), does it really matter what the flag means to you? I know, this is a bit of a provocative question. But, well, I'm living in a country that has had its fair share of symbols that have a negative connotation these days. And, as @Noob616 said, flying a swastika, for example, won't make me look like I'm expressing my sympathy to the victims of racially motivated homicide, regardless of whether or not I do so because I like its original meaning as a symbol of good luck.

Plus, if a flag is flown above a government building, I can't walk up to a representative and ask them why they're flying it and get a proper answer like you're providing me with. As such, I'd say that you, as a private person, should be able to fly any flag you want. But on government buildings? Different story, especially since I don't see anyone protesting a powerful government there

 

[squadops]

Aha,

Indeed it is both sad and true that an institution can hold onto a routine without knowing why

 

[Luminis]

an institution can hold onto a routine without knowing why

Institutions, companies, societies, people.

"Why are you doing that?" "Because we always did!" Re-evaluating some of what we've always done might not necessarily have to do with political correctness getting out of hand, just that people realise that a given routine might have been a bit daft in hindsight, anyway.

 

[squadops]

I'll continue to fly the flag with pride and of course, be willing to explain why 👍

 

[Encyclopedia]

Be careful, PC brigades will call you racist and terrorist. Let us know how it goes, i'm curious.

It must be very hard living under constant oppression. Poor you.

 

[squadops]

If it does not involve slowing down their race to the couch with their favorite 6-pack no one really cares, of course I could hold them up in the micky d's drive line I guess.

 

[KSaiyu]

It must be very hard living under constant oppression. Poor you.

I don't know. Try asking the people of Malmö how it feels. Oh wait, you can't ask them for their opinion.

I'm working on getting the Saudi Arabian flag banned in the UK since they, you know, still actually practice slavery and oppress women.

Can I count on your support SJW?

 

[Encyclopedia]

I don't know. Try asking the people of Malmö how it feels. Oh wait, you can't ask them for their opinion.

I can't? Why not?

Can I count on your support SJW?

And there it is. LOL.

 

[KSaiyu]

Inhabitants of different cultural backgrounds in multicultural nations will always take offence at something. You start on a dangerous path when you start blanket banning and universally condemning.

And then let's think about the logic of this.

Angry white dude hates black people. Flies flag of the south.

"I know a great idea" say the social justice movement. "Let's **** off all the angry white dudes who hate black people and stop them flying the flag of the south. With time they will see the error of their ways and the anger and racism will disappear. Oh and if you don't associate the flag with slavery tough luck on you too bub, I guess you'll have to be angry too!"

And I hate the mob rule mentality. What was I saying about shutting down debate?

Here's a video of a black student who flies the flag of the south explaining his reasons on CNN

Here's a music forum's reaction

"Stupid. He needs a good whoopin"

"These nu blacks are something else i swear."

"Why are all these black rednecks coming out of the woodwork."

(I especially like the replies to Lord Blackout. Ad hominems, where have I seen that before....)

 

[squadops]

And I hate the mob rule mentality.

When I was a kid my mother had a bumper sticker that read... The moral majority is neither lol. Perhaps you think as I do and declare democracy a failing proposition.

Lets just have it then shall we?



Close the city and tell the people that something's coming to call
Death and darkness are rushing forward to take a bite from the wall, oh

You've nothing to say
They're breaking away
If you listen to fools...
The Mob Rules
The Mob Rules

Kill the spirit and you'll be blinded, the end is always the same
Play with fire, you burn your fingers and lose your hold of the flame, oh

It's over, it's done
The end is begun
If you listen to fools...
The Mob Rules

You've nothing to say
Oh, They're breaking away
If you listen to fools...

Break the circle and stop the movement, the wheel is thrown to the ground
Just remember it might start rolling and take you right back around

You're all fools!
The Mob Rules!