POLL: Fixed or Adjustable settings in FIA Nations Cup & Manufacturer Series

[Johnnypenso]

I voted fixed, as this is the 'real driving simulator' after all, it's not the 'real engineer simulator'.
If tuning is allowed, then tire wear/fuel consumption and engine/gearbox damage should also be calculated and applied.

In GT5 wheel users were about 20% of the participants in TT's. I don't expect the numbers to be much different in GTS. If anything maybe lower because the popular DFGT no longer works and it was cheaper than anything available today. Wheel users won almost every TT and totally dominated the top 100, sometimes taking nearly every single spot. Some wheels cost hundreds of dollars. I say we ban wheels in all sanctioned events because they cost too much and not everyone can afford them. Tunes are free after all.

My impression from reading the forums was more that you could easy gain 2-5 seconds faster lap times with tuning, but maybe I'm wrong. Btw, with "longer tracks" I meant tracks like Suzuka. I don't even know how much my time varies on the Nordschleife, I reckon it would be between 10 - 20 seconds :-D

Did you enter event that allowed tuning but without using a tuned car? If you did, are you now 2-5 seconds closer to the pole now that tuning is disallowed?

 

[JulesDennis]

I voted fixed, as this is the 'real driving simulator' after all, it's not the 'real engineer simulator'.
If tuning is allowed, then tire wear/fuel consumption and engine/gearbox damage should also be calculated and applied.

Tuning is part of real life racing.BTW I agree:tire wear/fuel consumption/damage should also be part of "Sports" races.

 

[GTWelsh]

Races become weekly soon, whatever that brings with it. Maybe we'll get grouped into league tables by points and the "10 points for a win" championship starts? No idea.

If this is just a grouping stage, then I can see the reasoning to level the field with tuning disabled. Then at a later stage (championship table stage?) we could get full-real (higher DR gets more "real" features maybe?).

Lack of understanding and lack of communication from PD though means we're all guessing.

To answer the OP. "I prefer tuning, but with Sport mode it depends on the reasoning for the current races".

 

[FerrellJ]

I am interested in how well I can master these challenges in a very short time, especially with difficult cars/tracks.

See, I guess this is my problem with the format of this test season- I don't think it's going to be like this for the real thing.

Also, I don't think "master" is the word you're looking for if you aren't willing to spend time actually learning anything. You're just playing. And to me, a sanctioned points series is the wrong place for that. Call me elitist but literally every other place in the game accommodates that. This shouldn't.

If tuning was allowed, I would shrug it off with "ah he just had a good tune and was maybe not the better driver than me". Probably not true, I know, but these are the kind of thoughts.

You said it yourself- it's probably not true. That's an excuse that I learned long ago wasn't valid, along with the fact that there will always be people faster and better than me at anything I try. I would rather lose to them knowing I tried to the best of my abilities than win knowing they were handicapped from doing their best.

Also, I think 2-5 seconds gain per lap is incredibly optimistic. I mentioned before that setups are more for making you more consistent. Faster laptops is a side effect of that as you are able to drive your line more regularly.

 

[Belifant]

Did you enter event that allowed tuning but without using a tuned car? If you did, are you now 2-5 seconds closer to the pole now that tuning is disallowed?

Also, I think 2-5 seconds gain per lap is incredibly optimistic. I mentioned before that setups are more for making you more consistent. Faster laptops is a side effect of that as you are able to drive your line more regularly.

It's not that I can verify this in any way and I totally admit I might be wrong, but as I said, it's my generell impression that these are the kind of gains you get from a good tune, reading the forums. Maybe 5 seconds is a bit too optimistic though.

Also, I don't think "master" is the word you're looking for if you aren't willing to spend time actually learning anything. You're just playing. And to me, a sanctioned points series is the wrong place for that. Call me elitist but literally every other place in the game accommodates that. This shouldn't.

You are right, "master" is the wrong word. More correct is "keep it on the track and get nice steady laps without going off". But your assumption is wrong that I am not willing to learn. I am willing to learn, I am willing to spend time learning, and I do learn and spend time with it, but the time I have to play the game is usually very limited during the week, so I have to make a decision, do I put in as many miles as possible to learn a car/track combo and find a decent race line, or do I spend the time testing different tunes. Unfortunately, I can't do both most of the time. Still I enjoy the game, and I enjoy the good racing I get in FIA series, so no I don't think the FIA series is the wrong place for me. Maybe I come across as a wreckless driver who can't keep a racing line and takes other cars out. I can assure you this is not the case. In the Monday races I finished 2nd and 3rd, and I really enjoyed those races.

You said it yourself- it's probably not true. That's an excuse that I learned long ago wasn't valid, along with the fact that there will always be people faster and better than me at anything I try. I would rather lose to them knowing I tried to the best of my abilities than win knowing they were handicapped from doing their best.

Not an excuse, realistically it would be a combination of both. If the tune of the faster driver didn't make him faster and or more consistent, then why tune the car in the first place? I rather lose to someone knowing they beat me purely with their driving skills, nothing else. Not having the ability to tune isn't a handicap for a fast driver. It levels the playing field. The ability to tune would give him a further advantage over me. Nothing wrong with that, it is racing, but calling fixed tunes a "handicap" is the wrong word. A good driver will kick my ass even with a fixed tune (otherwise he wouldn't be that good). But with a fixed tune, I might have a better chance to keep up with him and give him a bit of a fight. Which makes for better racing for all involved.

I am not sure where I'm going with this, I'm not actually complaining about anything. If tuning becomes available I'll be happily racing as I have been now. My preference would be just tuning disabled. As long as I can have good racers with other players, I don't mind if they use tuning or not.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

That is why there is a rank from of your brand beside the worldwide rank.
I won with the Mustang on 1 Track and had a hard time on the last 2 Tracks. But it is fine to me. Still rank 4 for Ford at the Moment and thats no different in reality. Cars are different and will always do different on tracks. Even with setups allowed the other cars will also improve and there goes your setup advantage, because maybe there is always 1 car that allow a broken setup.
I prefere fixed for sure. (Also i am bad at making setups and i think you can do broken setups that allow unrealistic driving and then not the best wins but the one with broken physics.)

So basically your contention is that if you want to win you need to pick the brand that is ranked #1 worldwide or concede to finishing in a lower position?

If this is supposed to represent e-sport level world wide championships then full tuning, high damage, fuel usage and tire wear should all be activated as all affect the outcome of a race, the drivers ability to get the most out of his equipment and yes tire wear if the model is done correctly will negate some what you call broken suspension tuning set ups as those setups will in many cases drastically reduce usable tire life.

The only way locked set ups show the better driver is in a one make, one model race. As far as different models and brands of cars, different drivers skills, abilities and even driving styles can affect the outcome of which brand wins the race.

In a what is called a championship series then all options available within the game that stay within class rules should be open to the competitor so as to get the best performance possible out of his chosen equipment. Just because some programmer at PD saddled a brand with a bad base set up does not mean that a competent driver/tuner should not be allowed to improve on that performance unless PD wants a rigged finish before the contest even starts.

 

[Belifant]

Even though I am for a fixed setup, I can't disagree with anything you say.

Having said that, in another thread this guy makes a good point (#6):

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/why-do-we-tune-our-cars.366920/#post-12044553

 

[FerrellJ]

so I have to make a decision, do I put in as many miles as possible to learn a car/track combo and find a decent race line, or do I spend the time testing different tunes. Unfortunately, I can't do both most of the time.

I don't think the two tasks are exclusive. That might be the source of the confusion here. You do both at the same time. While figuring out the racing line, you try to spot where your car has trouble staying on it. Then you make a change and go back out.

You could probably spend just as much time trying to figure out how to drive an unwieldy car around a track as you would just tuning the quirks out to get the same, more reliable lap time.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Even though I am for a fixed setup, I can't disagree with anything you say.

Having said that, in another thread this guy makes a good point (#6):

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/why-do-we-tune-our-cars.366920/#post-12044553

Okay so even if we concede that the base suspension set up should remain locked as to preserve "parity" of the BOP that in no way should negate the ability to adjust and optimize the gear ratios of a vehicle as the handling differences would remain as PD set them but a car should not be penalized because of a differing gear ratio resulting in some vehicles on some tracks not being able to use the full range of gears and some cars topping out speed wise on the straights due to low gear ratios.

Again damage, fuel usage and tire wear should also come into play as driving style, a cars traction or lack of spinning the tires will also affect performance in the later laps of the race.

Without tire wear being a factor a driver with a "hot lapping" style of driving will be rewarded and a smooth consistent driver penalized as the hot lapping driver may well in a realistic environment use up his tires maximum grip in the first 6 laps of a 10 lap race with his race pace dropping by several seconds a lap to remain on the track for the remainder of the race.

While the smooth consistent driver in the same equipment as the hotlapper may only see a drop off of less than a second a lap from start to finish of the race and therefore on lap 9 of a 10 lap race may pass the slower hotlapper by virtue of maintaining a faster overall race pace by conserving his tire for maximum grip for the race distance.

So what gives a more realistic and fair scenario, where one driving style is the winner and one driving style will most surely lose or where by utilizing and adjusting you driving ability to best suite your equipment and race conditions the smartest driver wins?

 

[Phoenixsui]

So basically your contention is that if you want to win you need to pick the brand that is ranked #1 worldwide or concede to finishing in a lower position?

No what i meant was that on every Track a different car may have a advantages and since you are locked to your gr.3+4 of your brand you have to compare with the others driving that same car and not with the fastest cars. A heavy strong car will always be faster on the straight and slower in the corners and now it depends on the track layout witch car will be faster.
For my Mustangs for example the tracks with faster corners and long straights are perfect. On the tracks with very sharp Corners i stand no chance against a 4C GT-R or VW Spaceshipcar.
I am fine with that.
I dont think that full adjustable setups will help 1 specific car to get faster because all other cars will be able to get faster as well.
And then it is more a difference of who can tune his car better or has more time to tune it. Same as at the moment some can practice 1 day for the next Event and some just get home and do 5 training laps then race and go sleep again.

 

[Belifant]

I don't think the two tasks are exclusive. That might be the source of the confusion here. You do both at the same time. While figuring out the racing line, you try to spot where your car has trouble staying on it. Then you make a change and go back out.

You could probably spend just as much time trying to figure out how to drive an unwieldy car around a track as you would just tuning the quirks out to get the same, more reliable lap time.

Maybe you are right, but maybe not all players are on a level to be able to do this. And even if you are good enough, it means constantly go back to the menu to change things, which makes you lose time spent on the track. I think what JulesDennis wrote below is probably more realistic for most people:

Plus (and this is more important imo) its a basic rule -in sim games in general- that setups would help gain 0.00.1xxx-0.00.400 after someone can do consistent lap times with min lap difference -0.5 sec for example-.There is no point to search faster lap times if you have 2 sec difference in you lap times even in long tracks (Nordschleife for example).A better setup is what is going to give you that extra 0.1xxx.Its not gonna make you do laps 5 sec faster.
What I try to do is to "master" the car and the track and after I get to a point where my lap times are "set" (within 0.5 max) I try to see how much time I can save from changing the setup.Sometimes I will straight up change basic things (like gearing or downforce) depending to the track but until I can go and do 20 laps with the "similar" result I dont worry about "setups" since I have yet to learn the track or the car or both.

Okay so even if we concede that the base suspension set up should remain locked as to preserve "parity" of the BOP that in no way should negate the ability to adjust and optimize the gear ratios of a vehicle as the handling differences would remain as PD set them but a car should not be penalized because of a differing gear ratio resulting in some vehicles on some tracks not being able to use the full range of gears and some cars topping out speed wise on the straights due to low gear ratios.

Again damage, fuel usage and tire wear should also come into play as driving style, a cars traction or lack of spinning the tires will also affect performance in the later laps of the race.

Without tire wear being a factor a driver with a "hot lapping" style of driving will be rewarded and a smooth consistent driver penalized as the hot lapping driver may well in a realistic environment use up his tires maximum grip in the first 6 laps of a 10 lap race with his race pace dropping by several seconds a lap to remain on the track for the remainder of the race.

While the smooth consistent driver in the same equipment as the hotlapper may only see a drop off of less than a second a lap from start to finish of the race and therefore on lap 9 of a 10 lap race may pass the slower hotlapper by virtue of maintaining a faster overall race pace by conserving his tire for maximum grip for the race distance.

So what gives a more realistic and fair scenario, where one driving style is the winner and one driving style will most surely lose or where by utilizing and adjusting you driving ability to best suite your equipment and race conditions the smartest driver wins?

Again, can't disagree with anything. I think allowing the tuning of the gear ratios would be a good compromise.
But, I'm not sure if what you are saying about tire wear is pro or contra fixed setups. Are you saying that tuning allowed would help the hotlapper in your scenario? Or are you talking about purely the effects of tire wear? With a fixed setup and tire wear enabled, your description sounds like an epic race, where not just your pure speed matters, but also your strategy. But with tuning enabled, the hotlapper could overcome the excessive tire wear with a good setup, with the result that the smooth consistent driver wouldn't have a change, no?

 

[JulesDennis]

But with tuning enabled, the hotlapper could overcome the excessive tire wear with a good setup, with the result that the smooth consistent driver wouldn't have a change, no?

And why not?
Why should everyone "have a chance to win"?I mean I am not an alien -not even close-.Why should I get a chance compared to a super fast driver that can also tune better than me?
Competitive/e-sports is about finding the best around,not making everyone equal.
And why do you think that "hotlappers" are not smooth and consistent?In iRacing the best -pro- drivers are both the best hotlappers and "endurance" racers around -example-.Why this could not be the case in GTS too?

 

[bmxmitch]

I really don't get why so many people like fixed settings!?
It just makes the game more boring to me. With fixed settings, there's always that one car that's faster than the rest and everyone jumps on that one.
So basically, **** variety for sport mode.

The mode is already pretty much dead to me because of this arcade like feel.
Practice? Not necessary! Qualifying? Not even really in sport mode! Strategy? Not needed as we don't have tire wear, fuel or tuning.

Longer races feel like a chore, as they mostly are boring "race behind each other" races.
With tire wear, tuning and fuel consumption, you would have to think a little more if you want to drive aggressive or save your fuel/tires and choose a more relaxed driving style.


I hope the "test season" if over soon and PD got the cars balanced ASAP, so we could go back to tune our cars.

 

[Belifant]

And why not?
Why should everyone "have a chance to win"?I mean I am not an alien -not even close-.Why should I get a chance compared to a super fast driver that can also tune better than me?

I get what you say from a competition mentality point of view. But the simple answer is: it would create tighter races which would be more exiting for all involved. I imagine for a super fast driver, being in the leading position for the entire race with no one to fight him must be a very boring race. Not a race, just a time trial.

Competitive/e-sports is about finding the best around,not making everyone equal.

Well not quite right, otherwise most racing series wouldn't be so heavily regulated, to make everyone as equal as possible. I know, this is where tuning comes into play to make a difference, but it is indeed the goal of most racing series to make everyone equal to start with.

And why do you think that "hotlappers" are not smooth and consistent?In iRacing the best -pro- drivers are both the best hotlappers and "endurance" racers around -example-.Why this could not be the case in GTS too?

I don't think that, I was just referring to VFOURMAX1's example.

 

[JulesDennis]

I get what you say from a competition mentality point of view. But the simple answer is: it would create tighter races which would be more exiting for all involved. I imagine for a super fast driver, being in the leading position for the entire race with no one to fight him must be a very boring race. Not a race, just a time trial.

Is there only one super fast driver in the world?No.There are many.Thats the point of DR.Group people in terms of pace/skills and putting them against each other in order to have close competitive races.
If the rating system works as it should there will be no problem like the one you describe.
If there is one guy that is so much faster than everyone else in the world,then the only way to solve this is to put him in a less powered car against people with faster cars.

Well not quite right, otherwise most racing series wouldn't be so heavily regulated, to make everyone as equal as possible. I know, this is where tuning comes into play to make a difference, but it is indeed the goal of most racing series to make everyone equal to start with.

Wrong.Racing series irl or sims are regulated in order to make the cars -in the same class-as close as possible in terms of overall performance and not people equal.
No matter what you do Bruno Senna will never be equal to Ayrton Senna in terms of pace or skill.

 

[JockeP22]

I think it's a very good indication, with 180 total votes, of the general preference within the GT Sport community as a whole
(it probably looks about the same even outside of GTP).

Seems like 70 / 30 is the overall end result, with the majority favoring fixed car settings.

It's been a good back and forth exchange of opinions for the most part, certainly more replies than I had originally anticipated, and whether you prefer one of the options over the other or vice versa I still thank you for turning this thread into what I hoped it would be, a good indicator of where the community lies regarding tuning in the game.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

No what i meant was that on every Track a different car may have a advantages and since you are locked to your gr.3+4 of your brand you have to compare with the others driving that same car and not with the fastest cars. A heavy strong car will always be faster on the straight and slower in the corners and now it depends on the track layout witch car will be faster.
For my Mustangs for example the tracks with faster corners and long straights are perfect. On the tracks with very sharp Corners i stand no chance against a 4C GT-R or VW Spaceshipcar.
I am fine with that.
I dont think that full adjustable setups will help 1 specific car to get faster because all other cars will be able to get faster as well.
And then it is more a difference of who can tune his car better or has more time to tune it. Same as at the moment some can practice 1 day for the next Event and some just get home and do 5 training laps then race and go sleep again.

I drive a heavier car as well only the Viper. Prime example in the base settings with PD tune the gear ratio's are so high that basically on most tracks you are pretty well related to a 5 speed gearbox rather than the on board 6 speed. Due to the horrid ratios of the Viper it is not hard for a Mustang to gain a head of steam and out accelerate the Viper in some situations.

Actually in stock base form the Viper really loses out on acceleration battles to quite a few cars. I have found early on in races where tuning was unlocked that with the proper gear ratio adjustments both transmission wise and final ratio that the Viper holds its on much better against the competition in the acceleration battle.

Another thing is it is a possibility that some of the OP cars at a particular track are benefiting from just a better base tune from PD and improvement and will not gain much from a tune while the cars that are driving like pigs will close the gap to the front running cars. I just feel that tuning, tire wear, fuel consumption and damage is all a part of racing and would personally prefer those variables to influence the outcomes of the racing.

If you want locked tuning, no tire wear, no damage and no fuel consumption then one make locked specs are the only races that you can race where only the driver makes a difference. In multi make races the cars are programmed by a human and if that programmer blows the base set up on one car and does better on another then you have a unlevel playing field that to correct you need to drive the OP car.

Case in point was the OP GTR the first week to ten days.

I continue to drive the Viper because I like it even though I know there are faster cars available. I am hoping that PD will eventually add the Ford GT to the stable, that is one car I think I would enjoy.

I really do not understand in a multi make field why so many want to be locked to a random set up that make a car unable to win and even if you want to drive it if you want to win then you have to drive whatever the OP flavor of the week may be for the current circuits being raced on.

 

[TeWheke]

If they are going to persist with fixed settings (and I really hope they don't) then they could at least let us adjust the top speed in the gear ratios. It's something that takes 1-2 laps to get right and is so easy to understand that even the most tune adverse person can easily change it to the optimal setting for each track - thus arguments about tuners and aliens have an advantage wouldn't apply. It seems odd you can change the brake balance in fixed settings but not this given how important it is to competitiveness between different cars.

Just to clarify, I'm only talking about the top speed setting, not the gear ratios themselves - honestly, if you can't understand how that works you have no business playing a racing game.

 

[JockeP22]

If they are going to persist with fixed settings (and I really hope they don't) then they could at least let us adjust the top speed in the gear ratios.

Test Season 2 for the Nations Cup and the Manufacturer Series have just been announced and it seems the car settings are fixed once again for these championships, I just checked.

 

[Phoenixsui]

I continue to drive the Viper because I like it even though I know there are faster cars available. I am hoping that PD will eventually add the Ford GT to the stable, that is one car I think I would enjoy.

I do the same with the Mustang. I think the Mustang is maybe a little to slow in some situations but he also had good performance on a track with no small corners. I forgot the name.

But before allowing settings i would prefere to disable all driving assists exept traction control and ABS. Because it is a joke to dirve against A S and S S ranks when they just do it by their childish assists. I see videos of high rank players with all the markers and so on activated and driving in 3th person. Seriously? I ofthen wonder how so many never do 1 single misstake in the B bracket. I think a lot use these systems. Someone also complained about it. I see so many cars almost losing control and still not losing any time on my clean driving in the same corner. They are far from any ideal line and still arent slower. The only way this may possible is those systems activ and them pulling out of corners with no risk of flipping around.

 

[ArchangelX]

Fixed. That way it's about driver skill as opposed to just tuning. Not everyone knows how to tune just yet. It will take some time. I think there should probably be a separate series for those that like to tune. In order to create the best play across-the-board, I think it should stay fixed.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Instead of having every race strictly follow a tuning or no tuning rule, why not change it up between tuning and no tuning? Wouldn't that be better?

 

[Turbo Racer 48]

I voted Fixed as both Sport and FIA events are changing daily. Given all the new racers to online, including me, it also makes sense to spend the time learning the track and the car. Tuning is still available off line so can be practiced there as I expect Tuning to be allowed later.

I also think having Fixed is helping PD as they attempt to fine tune the BOP settings.

 

[JulesDennis]

I voted Fixed as both Sport and FIA events are changing daily. Given all the new racers to online, including me, it also makes sense to spend the time learning the track and the car. Tuning is still available off line so can be practiced there as I expect Tuning to be allowed later.

I also think having Fixed is helping PD as they attempt to fine tune the BOP settings.

I dont think fixed tuning is helping PD.
They have a lot of data from "fixed" forced races (Closed beta until today) and still they cannot get BoP work well.When you have 1-2 cars dominate the top 10 lists (pretty much a TT board if you think about it),then BoP has problems.

 

[ferreira]

I'm sort of on the fence about this. While I think, it would be interesting to be able to tune your car, I think it is just going to cause a whole lot more problems and upset.

With the exception of the aliens, the gap in qualy times for the majority of the player base is already massive with people that are supposedly in the same DR as you, that throwing tuning into the mix would be too much. Also, considering you have two races everyday for a week, that means you need to do extensive testing before every race 14 times a week. It's just too much to ask of a community that is composed largely of people that have jobs & families.

Perhaps if there were fewer races per week, then tuning could be an interesting proposition.

 

[cleanLX]

Tuning should be part of the equation.
Lock out power upgrades and weight reduction to keep BoP in check, allow suspension, gearing and diff.
In the real world, some divers are competitive not because of their skill alone, but because they are able to communicate with their engineers what it is the car needs, making them faster, and thus competitive.
My buddy has a completely different driving style than I, yet we are equally quick on any given day. When I drive one of his cars it's an over steering unstable nightmare, when he drives mine it has no brakes, no feel and understates off the track. He favours cars that need wound tight at all times, I favour cars with a broad power band and rarely hit the limiter.
Without tuning, these cars, and us as drivers, would fall into "horses for courses", with tuning both the cars and he/I are competitive with one another across the board.

So, tuning, yes.

 

[JulesDennis]

Fixed. That way it's about driver skill as opposed to just tuning. Not everyone knows how to tune just yet. It will take some time. I think there should probably be a separate series for those that like to tune. In order to create the best play across-the-board, I think it should stay fixed.

If they want it to be all about driver skill then they should make all races One maker/fixed.Since they let people race with different models,its not all about "driver" skills,since some cars are faster (the way BoP works) than others.
Now its not about the "drivers" skill,its about "choosing the faster overall car".

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Ideally the game would have dead accurate tuning variables and we would be allowed to adjust them as needed.

The reality though is that there are millions of tuning permeatations which cannot be validated or verified for FIA races. We all know about glitchy tune jobs from previous iterations of the game and I have no doubt that some are still present in Sport. If money was no object they would assemble a massive QA team to isolate, test, and data track each tuning variable checking for anomalies. Having worked in video game QA before, I can tell you that it's a monumental and unreasonable task that would have to be redone at every major code update.

The safer solution for PD is to simply keep a keen eye to the online forums and to monitor the state of tuning within the game. If tuning patches and fixes can contain the online tuning scene then hopefully, eventually, they can allow it for FIA races in the future.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Fixed. That way it's about driver skill as opposed to just tuning. Not everyone knows how to tune just yet. It will take some time. I think there should probably be a separate series for those that like to tune. In order to create the best play across-the-board, I think it should stay fixed.

The only way it is about driver skill opposed to tuning would be in a locked tuning one make one model race as all drivers are then driving with the exact same same set up and equipment. Even then a certain drivers normal driving style may benefit and have somewhat of an advantage from certain cars and the base tune and tracks over others.

When you have any race involving cars you are driving a car that has a "tune" applied, the only difference in a locked tuning race is that the tune is applied by a programmer at PD versus a within game driver installed and adjusted tune within open tuning races.

Some cars as evidenced by looking at the leader boards of the car that populates the top spots on some tracks are over powered as far as the base tune is concerned as compared to the other cars and their applied base tunes.

By locking the tuning you are;
1.) Willing to jump on the fastest car bandwagon as tuned by PD if you want to realistically increase the odds of possibly setting or placing top times or winning a race.
2.) Continue to drive a favorite car that you enjoy driving even though you know that with the base tune as set by PD the chances of setting a top time or winning a race are drastically reduced using that vehicle.
3.) Open and unlock the tuning giving the opportunity to make any car within class to perform at its best with your driving style and on a certain track.

People also say that with one day races they do not have time to do a tune, you do realize that a tune can be done offline and tested (which should be done offline anyway) and that Tune can be saved for that car and for that course and used at a later date.

So many people complain there is no offline content and they never use or take advantage of the content that is there.
Suspension tuning is a realistic part of all racing and should be part of the racing experience of a "real driving simulator".

 

[ArchangelX]

The only way it is about driver skill opposed to tuning would be in a locked tuning one make one model race as all drivers are then driving with the exact same same set up and equipment. Even then a certain drivers normal driving style may benefit and have somewhat of an advantage from certain cars and the base tune and tracks over others.

When you have any race involving cars you are driving a car that has a "tune" applied, the only difference in a locked tuning race is that the tune is applied by a programmer at PD versus a within game driver installed and adjusted tune within open tuning races.

Some cars as evidenced by looking at the leader boards of the car that populates the top spots on some tracks are over powered as far as the base tune is concerned as compared to the other cars and their applied base tunes.

By locking the tuning you are;
1.) Willing to jump on the fastest car bandwagon as tuned by PD if you want to realistically increase the odds of possibly setting or placing top times or winning a race.
2.) Continue to drive a favorite car that you enjoy driving even though you know that with the base tune as set by PD the chances of setting a top time or winning a race are drastically reduced using that vehicle.
3.) Open and unlock the tuning giving the opportunity to make any car within class to perform at its best with your driving style and on a certain track.

People also say that with one day races they do not have time to do a tune, you do realize that a tune can be done offline and tested (which should be done offline anyway) and that Tune can be saved for that car and for that course and used at a later date.

So many people complain there is no offline content and they never use or take advantage of the content that is there.
Suspension tuning is a realistic part of all racing and should be part of the racing experience of a "real driving simulator".

Your arguments are strong, however I still think that there should be two separate series. There are many times when there are one make races and in that moment, those that tune will have a serious advantage. In addition, if one wants to be competitive, then they can always choose the same cars as the lap leaders. Considering skill levels, they'll most likely be placed in a group with people that are fairly close enough to their current skill level.

I understand what you're saying about tuning being an important aspect, but we're talking about a general public racing game with millions of people playing. We are talking about people that pick up and play when they get home from a day of work because they love racing games however they don't have enough time to really get into the meat and potatoes. This is not rfactor or Grand Prix Legends. This is Gran Turismo, which is a "sim" for the masses.

That's why I think there should be two separate series. One for the casual crowd and one for the hardcore Sim nut crowd. Makes sense to me. And it's easy to do.

To add, this is not an niche racer. The entire point of this game is to be an online multiplayer racing game. PD needs to be able to keep their user base and if they let tuners go wild and dominate every single race, then the pickup and play guys will eventually wander off to something else. That will hurt their bottom line and the future of their game. They're not going to do anything that upsets that.