[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

The party nominees are named. Now who do you support?


  • Total voters
    278
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
I believe in stiff tariffs, high taxes on corporations, and up to 75% tax on 10,000,000 made in a year for individuals or families.
And when all the companies and wealth creators have moved out of your communities and indeed country, who would be left to make things and pay the tax you need to run the massive welfare system you have to look after the unemployed half of your population?
 
I believe in stiff tariffs, high taxes on corporations, and up to 75% tax on 10,000,000 made in a year for individuals or families.
Subsidies should not be given out to companies who make dangerous gambles, or fail to keep up with demand of technology.
Every American is entitled to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. I happen to believe this means every American should have a education through college, and healthcare via paid taxes. An ignorant populous helps no one, but the predators who prey on them.

Kind of hard to keep up demand when you ask for three quarters tax on every ten million made per person/family. That's before you talk about the corporate taxes of said individuals company since both lines of revenue aren't exactly mutual. And you want them to keep up with tech? And by that I'm guessing invest in it as well. One of the most expensive outlets to invest in to begin with which many companies probably do.

Seems quite silly as far as expectation goes.

I doubt really see what the final part has to do with the starting so I'll just focus on what I have.
 
Last edited:
I've never understood the hatred towards the rich, the simple fact that their hard work can get them there dictates not only a respect but also a reality that you can also.

It is time that I go back to Johnson, he did exactly the same thing that the wallyworld guy did, and better than that, he decided to give back to the people by giving it up to become a governor. Now that is a man worth voting for.
 
And when all the companies and wealth creators have moved out of your communities and indeed country, who would be left to make things and pay the tax you need to run the massive welfare system you have to look after the unemployed half of your population?
Yeah, companies have already left the States. If you want to sell someone in the states and you aren't from the states pay a tax. If someone wants to leave the U.S to live in Britain because of taxes let them. The threat of billionaires leaving means nothing because the U.S is still the number 1 country in terms of buying goods.
 
Yeah, companies have already left the States. If you want to sell someone in the states and you aren't from the states pay a tax.
Which discourages trade to the USA. So now not only are you not making anything in the country, you're not able to import anything either.

Not that it matters, as with all of the wealth creators and manufacturers out of the country, no-one has any jobs to buy the things anyway...

So who's paying all the tax to go to the welfare state required to keep all the unemployed people from dying?
 
Which discourages trade to the USA. So now not only are you not making anything in the country, you're not able to import anything either.

Not that it matters, as with all of the wealth creators and manufacturers out of the country, no-one has any jobs to buy the things anyway...

So who's paying all the tax to go to the welfare state required to keep all the unemployed people from dying?

You are working on what ifs. I'm working with proven facts. America didn't seem to be having a problem with pre-NAFTA trade systems. The economy was just fine before Raegan.

Free trade hurts American workers, so it's either get the ball rolling and start up the jobs sectors here in America via Taxing imports.
 
"Number 1 country in buying goods", because we have the rich.

Oh we are going to have to live with all the 'free trade' things from here on out. Man why do I have to bring up Jefferson again?

“Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations...entangling alliances with none”

Tarif is fine, if it is to keep us competitive. It might mean something for me to say I am against all the trade deficit, then again oh dear, I am conservative, silly me.
 
Last edited:
You are working on what ifs. I'm working with proven facts.
Neither of those things are true.

The extremely wealthy and corporations will always find a way to minimise their tax burdens, because they (like the rest of us) don't like working hard and finding a decent chunk of their money vanishing and because it's cheaper for them to pay the right people to get round it than it is to just pony it up to the Treasury. The more you increase their tax burden, the more they will seek to get round it - from a high-paid individual taking salaries in shares or property right up to a company moving the headquarters to another territory. So many companies operating in the UK have European headquarters in Jersey because it means they don't have to pay any UK corporation tax that it's a wonder Jersey is still afloat - it's not physically big enough to accommodate them all.

As you increase penalties for operating in your country, they will withdraw facilities from your country - and that means withdrawing jobs. You know who costs less to employ than an American on $15/hr? An Indonesian kid on $15/month. The company can employ 150 kids in a foreign country to do the job for the cost of one American - or, taking shipping costs and import taxes into account, about 40 kids.

So now some Americans don't have jobs. They can't buy things because they aren't employed - American consumers are only #1 because of the high GDP/capita, which doesn't apply when you're unemployed - and they cost the state in welfare. The welfare income has fallen because a company that was previously based in your country and paid corporation taxes is no longer there and no longer paying. It's all the evil company that went abroad's fault, so you increase import taxes. They increase prices to compensate (at best; at worst they stop selling), costing the remaining Americans who can afford them more, so they buy less, pay less purchase tax and decrease the amount of tax income for the state. With all that missing money, you need more tax income to make the books balance, so you increase taxes on the evil fatcats like you did in the first place and make the problems worse.

Every time you increase the penalties on doing business in a country, including minimum wage increases, you cost jobs and increase the burden on the state.
 
So many companies operating in the UK have European headquarters in Jersey because it means they don't have to pay any UK corporation tax that it's a wonder Jersey is still afloat - it's not physically big enough to accommodate them all.

:lol: that is a good one. Reminds me of this...



"my fear is that it will tip over" oh my
 
The more you increase their tax burden, the more they will seek to get round it - from a high-paid individual taking salaries in shares or property right up to a company moving the headquarters to another territory. So many companies operating in the UK have European headquarters in Jersey because it means they don't have to pay any UK corporation tax that it's a wonder Jersey is still afloat - it's not physically big enough to accommodate them all.
Actually, it is Delaware that is the tax haven in the US, but otherwise, you are on point. Companies do seek to maximize profits whenever possible, and a CEO or other executive who does it best would earn a substantial bonus at the end of the year based on his performance. Contractually based bonuses (in other words, bonuses that were given to fulfill portions of a CEO's contract without any real effort on the CEO's part) is where I draw the line.
 
Alright, let me spell it out for you then.

You asked @ryzno how much he paid after stating that Wal-Mart paid 2% of all corporate income taxes (also while posting an article explaining that they hid away $76b to avoid having to pay more, bravo sir). Pretty sure with the figure Ryzno posted, he's not a corporation.

You quoted the amount of Corporation Tax that Walmart paid and then asked what @ryzno paid. @GTPorsche quite rightly pointed out that @ryzno isn't a Corporation.

Do pay attention, Bond :D
Let me spell it out for the two of you. Part of the beauty of capitalism and the possibility of unlimited wealth is that a single person can create another legal entity all on their own called a "corporation". That corporation can live on well beyond the life of it's principal, in this case, Sam Walton. As I stated and I quote, "The corporation that Sam Walton built", continues to contribute to the U.S. Treasury beyond his lifetime to the tune of 2% of all Federal corporate tax revenues. Incorporation is a legal exercise undertaken because it has advantages over being owner operated or in a partnership but make no mistake about it, Sam Walton is Walmart and Walmart is Sam Walton.

Fair as in one that's reasonable and keeps up with inflation/cost of living.

Fair Wages
ap_ap-photo975-wi-e1458324977566-640x480.jpg


Behold the resiliency nee the beauty of capitalism and free markets:

The CEO of restaurant chain Carl’s Jr. and Hardee’s has revealed his plans to replace employees with fully automated machines as a means to cut the cost of rising minimum wages. "With government driving up the cost of labor, it’s driving down the number of jobs,” he says. “You’re going to see automation not just in airports and grocery stores, but in restaurants as well."
Source

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/03/18/dominos-trials-pizza-delivery-by-robot/

http://www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-self-service-kiosk-fast-food-automated-2015-10

http://www.businessinsider.com/mcdo...2015-10#ooid=sxdXU3eDoxL3pXtchG1k_q2nUWDq_Evl
 
As much as I am not in favour of having a Minimum wage in the first place the way it is now is perfect to maximise profits with productivity at the expense of the worker, im sure if the minimum wage was increased or removed entirely, wages would increase as a Low minimum wage is basically used as justification for Maximum wage.

The businesses understand it thats why they lobby hard for the lawmakers to keep it this way.

I don't think supply of jobs is the main issue for America at this stage, it's just the issue of what those jobs pay that is the main issue. For the workers.

Now we have people here from the top down and bottom up demographic that don't seem to recognise that both need it each other to exist and giving too much power to one side will unsettle the dynamic of the economy in the long run.

You can have high income workers with barely profitable businesses just as easy as highly profitable businesses with barely survivable income workers because at the end of the day said Country will always have demand that needs supplying.
 
Last edited:
As much as I am not in favour of having a Minimum wage in the first place the way it is now is perfect to maximise profits with productivity at the expense of the worker, im sure if the minimum wage was increased or removed entirely, wages would increase as a Low minimum wage is basically used as justification for Maximum wage.

The businesses understand it thats why they lobby hard for the lawmakers to keep it this way.
Can you explain that in English please. You sound like you are just regurgitating unrelated soundbytes or talking points without really understanding what they mean.
 
Can you explain that in English please. You sound like you are just regurgitating unrelated soundbytes or talking points without really understanding what they mean.
Can you ask a question that can be answered?
 
Can you ask a question that can be answered?
Well you've dramatically edited your post since I made my post but I'll take a shot.
As much as I am not in favour of having a Minimum wage in the first place the way it is now is perfect to maximise profits with productivity at the expense of the worker
Explain how you are not in favour of a minimum wage but having a minimum wage is perfect to maximize profits with productivity at the expense of the worker. If there was no minimum wage, wouldn't it be more profitable for companies and individuals to hire people at a lower than the current minimum wage? What does, "at the expense of the worker" mean specifically? Workers get paid at their agreed upon wage no? What is at their expense?

, im sure if the minimum wage was increased or removed entirely, wages would increase as a Low minimum wage is basically used as justification for Maximum wage. The businesses understand it thats why they lobby hard for the lawmakers to keep it this way.
Businesses lobby to keep it what way? What is a maximum wage?

I don't think supply of jobs is the main issue for America at this stage, it's just the issue of what those jobs pay that is the main issue. For the workers.
I agree that what jobs pay is an issue, but has always been and will always be an issue in any dynamic economy, particularly with low or unskilled labour. Someone will always be the lowest paid. So what is the solution? If you artificially increase the minimum wage, especially in great leaps and bounds, all businesses will naturally seek to lower costs, and part of that is reducing labour costs in favour of automating what is essentially menial labour tasks. I gave some examples above but there are plenty others. Take McDonald's for example. You can replace several food servers with several kiosks and a hostess or two, whose sole job is to smile and help customers. Machines don't get sick, don't infect other staff, are never late, don't file lawsuits, don't feel racially discriminated against or have their pc feelings offended, are never surly or flippant with customers etc. Software is fairly simple to create, machines very easy to repair and electronics incredibly reliable these days anyway.

How do you propose to resolve this dilemma?
 
Well you've dramatically edited your post since I made my post but I'll take a shot.
Explain how you are not in favour of a minimum wage but having a minimum wage is perfect to maximize profits with productivity at the expense of the worker. If there was no minimum wage, wouldn't it be more profitable for companies and individuals to hire people at a lower than the current minimum wage? What does, "at the expense of the worker" mean specifically? Workers get paid at their agreed upon wage no? What is at their expense?

Businesses lobby to keep it what way? What is a maximum wage?

I agree that what jobs pay is an issue, but has always been and will always be an issue in any dynamic economy, particularly with low or unskilled labour. Someone will always be the lowest paid. So what is the solution? If you artificially increase the minimum wage, especially in great leaps and bounds, all businesses will naturally seek to lower costs, and part of that is reducing labour costs in favour of automating what is essentially menial labour tasks. I gave some examples above but there are plenty others. Take McDonald's for example. You can replace several food servers with several kiosks and a hostess or two, whose sole job is to smile and help customers. Machines don't get sick, don't infect other staff, are never late, don't file lawsuits, don't feel racially discriminated against or have their pc feelings offended, are never surly or flippant with customers etc. Software is fairly simple to create, machines very easy to repair and electronics incredibly reliable these days anyway.

How do you propose to resolve this dilemma?
If there was no minimum wage the power would be more in the hands of the Worker/Unions on what they make, businesses would have to compete to get a workforce as simply paying absolutely nothing isn't going to give you a workforce to supply your demands.

By having a Minimum wage there is no competition between businesses as they can just all stick to this same wage taking all the power from the workers in payment negotiations therefore it gets used as a ''maximum wage''.

Robots are all well and good but your not taking away anything a robot workforce would open up opportunities elsewhere as those robots will still need to be maintained, made designed and operated.

Now when it comes to raising the minimum wage:

Say you have to reduce the amount of workers to pay this extra wage costs via a higher minimum wage the workforce that is working is paid more thus is able to spend more which in turn creates it's own demand, companies are not just going to leave because workers are expensive because there will still be a demand for goods and that demand will have plenty of opportunity for those that supply.

The businesses will have to restructure their pay cycle from top to bottom to cater for this if they intend to keep same or similar profit levels which will essentially close the gap between the highest earners and lowest in said company.

You will find in Countries with High income inequality like America for example the difference from the bottom to top in employee income will be much larger, then other countries with much more income equality that is because of high minimum wage, a company as a whole would rather exist then not and this is basically a by product of that.

At the end of the day an Economy is people, the Economy serves the people just like the people serve the Economy.

Supply and Demand.

(It should be noted that a no minimum wage society will never happen in a Western '' 1st world country'' simply because it adds variables that no government would accept, since it's highly capitalistic and the concept of a government in the first place is socialism the only option that will be hurmonious would be a raise in the minimum wage).
 
Last edited:
I think simply going straight to a number would be terrible for the economy as a whole but a plan of successive wage growth till a number is hit will reach it's desired effect if it is to reduce income equality.

Companies will need time to restructure their top heavy employee incomes, any rush in this can have a catastrophic effect in the short term at the least.

Many companies will likely not survive it but if done gradually the bigger and faster to evolve companies will take that pie when their demand increases from less competition.
 
Last edited:
I think simply going straight to a number would be terrible for the economy as a whole but a plan of successive wage growth till a number is hit will reach it's desired effect if it is to reduce income equality.
Or, more likely, an equal and opposite plan of successive manpower reductions and robotisation.
Which brings up a whole 'nother point -- the books aren't balancing now.
Well just tax the rich then, that'll solve it :D
 
I still fail to see how a Robot workforce would diminish the workforce, restructure where the jobs and demand are sure that will happen, just like it did with the agriculture industry before the industrial revolution.

But the economy's supply and demand is still dictated by the people.

The increasing maintenance, creation, innovation etc of these robots will create a whole new workforce equal to the one it replaced, everything needs human interaction eventually.
 
Can I ask a real honest question? Can anyone name me a profession that strictly pays the minimum wage without any sort of raises on your income?
 
Can I ask a real honest question? Can anyone name me a profession that strictly pays the minimum wage without any sort of raises on your income?
I can't comment on America, but in Australia that would fit basically any basic contractor(as in the contractor company outsources it's contract to workers)Job.
 
The increasing maintenance, creation, innovation etc of these robots will create a whole new workforce equal to the one it replaced
Are you suggesting that every single machine that replaces a human will need an entire human to create, build and maintain it?

What jobs do you think that the hundreds of thousands of unskilled humans replaced by machines will be able to do?
 
Are you suggesting that every single machine that replaces a human will need an entire human to create, build and maintain it?

What jobs do you think that the hundreds of thousands of unskilled humans replaced by machines will be able to do?

Not at all, because productivity will be increased as it will be more cost effective for the service industry, it can expand faster and in turn allows the industry that takes care of the robot to be able to replace the service industry workforce in numbers.

If running a restaurant becomes as cheap to run as a vending machine surely it is not hard to Imagen there will be much more of them since they will not need as much demand to maintain a profit.

Saturation of the industry can be done without harming it.

Given the nature of how it would be implemented if it does go in this direction it will nearly be a smooth transition in workforce since it clearly wouldn't happen overnight.

Unless you remove the people process from the entire equation from top to bottom supply and demand will still balance the books.
 
The increasing maintenance, creation, innovation etc of these robots will create a whole new workforce equal to the one it replaced, everything needs human interaction eventually.
I tried to explain this to people several months back in the $15/hr thread and it went nowhere. At least someone else besides me gets it...
 
I tried to explain this to people several months back in the $15/hr thread and it went nowhere. At least someone else besides me gets it...
People, the one word that describes an economy.

As long as people have something to do, there is no net loss in the long term.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back