Poll: Would you be happy with current standard cars in a PS4 Gran Turismo game?

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Will you be happy with standard cars in a Playstation 4 Gran Turismo?

  • Yes

    Votes: 195 23.6%
  • No

    Votes: 632 76.4%

  • Total voters
    827
I don't think it will because they will do the same as for GT6 : Adding a lot of new cars and only update a few of them (I am honestly not expecting more than 15 fully upgraded standards and 150-200 "semi-premium" (which take way less time to make)
I already explained why semi-premiums will take time away from modeling new premium cars. Did you not understand it? Doesn't matter how you slice it, there are only a limited number of guys modeling cars. If they are working on standards they can't work on true premiums. How much simpler can it be? You can't wish away basic math and logic by saying, "I don't think so".
 
I already explained why semi-premiums will take time away from modeling new premium cars. Did you not understand it? Doesn't matter how you slice it, there are only a limited number of guys modeling cars. If they are working on standards they can't work on true premiums. How much simpler can it be? You can't wish away basic math and logic by saying, "I don't think so".
What if the cars are already modelled and ready to be added?
 
What if the cars are already modelled and ready to be added?
Like the Subaru rally from GTHD that still hasn't seen the light of day?

or the supposed Mercedes that were on the list for GT6 before release and then taken off the list...before release
 
What if the cars are already modelled and ready to be added?
Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that car models are not created out of thin air? You are so busy defending Kaz and the game you are arguing without logic or reason. If they are already modeled that doesn't change the fact that modeling time was taken away from true premiums and put into standards. Is it that hard to understand?
 
@LMSCorvetteGT2 : I don't know why the Subaru was not added. But for the Mercedes, PD Never said it would be in GT6, it was a press release from Mercedes not PD (as Pikes Peak from RedBull press release if I am not wrong)

@Johnnypenso : "What if I was swallowed by a pig and my head was sticking out of his 🤬 and I was being chased by wolves?" WTF Man
I understand : Update the premiums take time, I know, I am not stupid. But I don't think it take more time than modelling 20 news premiums cars, because they will focus about adding new cars, not updating standards to premiums. So I don't think we will lose more than 20 new cars by keeping the standards.

But maybe I am too stupid to understand what you're saying.
 
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@LMSCorvetteGT2 : I don't know why the Subaru was not added. But for the Mercedes, PD Never said it would be in GT6, it was a press release from Mercedes not PD (as Pikes Peak from RedBull press release if I am not wrong)

No they had them on the list a month before the game was to be released which tells me the game had already went gold and they were in there. The deal (whatever happened) fell through in some capacity and they had to take them out. It makes no sense why we have https://www.gtplanet.net/mercedes-amg-gran-turismo-6/ and also have them on the list before revising it to current condition. So it was from both, and why would MB say they were going to be in the game change anything? Are you saying that PD can't be held accountable for what MB are claiming they came to a deal with PD on?
 
Don't need to find it, i trust you ^^ It was stupid to remove them, maybe a licensing issue?

Who knows why they do what they've done that last few games with cars being ready for the game but not being used. Hopefully it will be one of the questions answered by PD/Kaz
 
Don't you find it ironic that when TenD's guard is down, and he's just posting and not in "defend GT and Kaz against all reason" mode, he contributes stuff like this which is basically asking for GT7 to be nothing like all previous versions of the series, and pretty much a near duplicate of PCars but with GT's car selection.
Oh no no no. Oh, NO. I've spoken quite at length about what I want to see in GT7, and it's NOT to turn Gran Turismo whole hog into P CARS.

Yes, I want a separate GT Pro Mode, and with any luck, we'll be getting this thanks to the FIA partnership. But this is a separate issue from what Gran Turismo evolves into as an entire game.

Anyway, I'll be siding with the 60% here, give or take who will be getting GT7.
 
IMO, it matters which standard cars they SHOULD choose to make premium and, to be honest, that list isn't very long. Along with cutting out the many GT-Rs, Miatas, S2000s, Silvias, WRX STIs, Evos, etc. that are pretty much the same vehicle just a different year (or odd special addition model that had custom carpets and a plaque), makes the standard to premium list that much shorter.

PD needs to think really hard at their business strategy concerning this: What are the risks?
- Quality issues due to low res cars looking MUCH worse in PS4 level graphics (we're talking the original Doom character running around in Titanfall for an anology people, it's going to REALLY stand out!!!)
- Resources spent on updating standards to premiums instead of updating the car list and other game aspects. When I say updating, I'm talking cars in GT6 are dated. While everyone else has Ferrari F12s, Koenigseggs, and recent model RUFs, BMWs, and Audis, GT6's car lineup looks like a list from 5 years ago save for a handful of cars.
 
Oh no no no. Oh, NO. I've spoken quite at length about what I want to see in GT7, and it's NOT to turn Gran Turismo whole hog into P CARS.

Yes, I want a separate GT Pro Mode, and with any luck, we'll be getting this thanks to the FIA partnership. But this is a separate issue from what Gran Turismo evolves into as an entire game.

Anyway, I'll be siding with the 60% here, give or take who will be getting GT7.
Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Your entire wishlist for GT7 is another game entirely. If the core of GT is so wonderful and you have such fun with it, why not just tweak it and call it a day, like they did for GT5 and GT6? Throw in some new cars and boring FIA tracks, model mars, throw in some crappy electric vehicles that no one drives, introduce fuel economy into the career mode, make the AI 5% harder and be done.

Why do you push for something GT has never, ever been about, completely away from Kaz's so called vision of the past 15 years? Real racing simulation, simulating a race day, liveries, including entire race series, bots that actually race etc. etc. etc. The irony, which I repeat you'll never, ever admit, is that you want a complete revamping of the series the same as most of the vociferous critics around here. The GTPro Mode you advocate bears no resemblence to anything PD/Kaz has ever done, and bears a striking similarity to PCars. Much of it might as well be word for word right out of the SMS homepage. You want the whole concept of PCars with GT's car selection.
 
Oh. So I decided to chuck Arcade and GT Mode without telling myself? Gee, thanks for illuminating me on that, JP. :D
 
<snip>
What I took from the above is that he wouldn't care if millions of people didn't buy GT7 because it had standard cars
<snip.

A little hyperbole here?

Seriously, if GT7 includes standard cars, millions of people would prefer not to enjoy the total GT7 experience rather than just avoid using standard cars?

Millions?
 
A little hyperbole here?

Seriously, if GT7 includes standard cars, millions of people would prefer not to enjoy the total GT7 experience rather than just avoid using standard cars?

Millions?

He didn't say that millions of people would literally not buy GT7 because of standards he was reflecting on how a casual user of this forum, that constantly defends GT/PD on an emotional basis, seems to act when people critique the game. If you read through his entire discussion here you'll see where it leads to.

Others also commented on it. What we have here is a quote that you've seen, and taken out of context. I would hope that since you were apart of that discussion, you'd have noticed by now where you went wrong.
 
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A little hyperbole here?

Seriously, if GT7 includes standard cars, millions of people would prefer not to enjoy the total GT7 experience rather than just avoid using standard cars?

Millions?
If millions didn't buy it. IF. I didn't say that was likely, I said if for hypothetical reasons it did, he would seemingly be happy.
 
A little hyperbole here?

Seriously, if GT7 includes standard cars, millions of people would prefer not to enjoy the total GT7 experience rather than just avoid using standard cars?

Millions?

I think the problem is the standard cars would ruin the whole experience. With PCars and Drive Club around the corner, PD can't afford to be sloppy. Features, cars, and track count won't mean much if the whole experience is blemished with low res content everywhere. It'll look like an unfinished game.
 
You know what would take even less time...getting rid of duplicate cars like those that are Standard and Premium (Veyron, C5 Z06).
Well, the Corvette isn't really a duplicate.




Though I'm kind of curious what this means for, say, the idiocy with the Miatas. Now that they are all at least semi-premium, do we get to look forward to having all 22 fictional ones in perpetuity?


A little hyperbole here?

Seriously, if GT7 includes standard cars, millions of people would prefer not to enjoy the total GT7 experience rather than just avoid using standard cars?

Millions?
What Simon is saying is not ironic. What Simon is saying is not his proposed literal future of the series. What Simon is saying is not even particularly condescending. Tenacious D said he hopes Standard cars drive people who don't like them off to other games and out of the GT subforums. Everything Simon said following that is a logical extension of that extreme position Tenacious D took.
 
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Well, the Corvette isn't really a duplicate.




Though I'm kind of curious what this means for, say, the idiocy with the Miatas. Now that they are all at least semi-premium, do we get to look forward to having all 22 fictional ones in perpetuity?

There really isn't an importance to have both Z06 C5s in the game. Yes there is a power increase, but there is no point in having both when the more powerful should be the mainstay. It may not be a full on duplicate as the R34 GT-R Vspec II and the Midnight Purple edition, but it doesn't (to me) have enough merit to stay in the game.
 
IMO, it matters which standard cars they SHOULD choose to make premium and, to be honest, that list isn't very long. Along with cutting out the many GT-Rs, Miatas, S2000s, Silvias, WRX STIs, Evos, etc. that are pretty much the same vehicle just a different year (or odd special addition model that had custom carpets and a plaque), makes the standard to premium list that much shorter.

PD needs to think really hard at their business strategy concerning this: What are the risks?
- Quality issues due to low res cars looking MUCH worse in PS4 level graphics (we're talking the original Doom character running around in Titanfall for an anology people, it's going to REALLY stand out!!!)
- Resources spent on updating standards to premiums instead of updating the car list and other game aspects. When I say updating, I'm talking cars in GT6 are dated. While everyone else has Ferrari F12s, Koenigseggs, and recent model RUFs, BMWs, and Audis, GT6's car lineup looks like a list from 5 years ago save for a handful of cars.

The quality won't be that bad, but I still know where you're going, and this is exactly why they need to be left out, or as someone mentioned an optional install(which was genius idea to whomever said it first).
 
If they get cleaned up to semi-premium status, I would be fine with it. Otherwise, if they look like the Suzuki Alto Works, no.

Also, cut some of the Skylines and Miatas.
 
There really isn't an importance to have both Z06 C5s in the game.
I don't agree with that, nor do I think it is even in the same time zone as being a duplicate. How slippery do you want your slopes to be? Do I not include the AP1 S2000, just because it is fairly close to the AP2 S2000 (especially in the context of a driving game, since most of the improvements were focused on increasing liveability rather than the car being any faster)? What about the NSX Type R? That's not too terribly different from any other NSX on paper. They may have half-assed it for everything but the Evo GT-A, but what about cars where they modelled an automatic version and a manual version? Do those get the boot even when there should be drastic differences between the two? What about the M3 CSL vs the regular M3? I could go on.



If there are appreciable real life differences (rather than ones PD fabricated to justify the inclusion of a duplicate, like the Miatas), and those differences are actually modeled (like... probably half the duplicates failed to do), then a car can absolutely be just as worthy of a conclusion as if it was a completely different car.

Yes there is a power increase, but there is no point in having both when the more powerful should be the mainstay.
Why? Even Forza 4 didn't do that with its car list. Yeah, it's ridiculous when PD takes the time to model a Premium car, and instead of (say) the hot rod Fiat 500 Abarth we get... the poverty spec 70 horsepower 1.2L version and only that. It's similarly ridiculous when PD model two different Suzuki Swift models whose only difference is the mirrors. But there is plenty of space between the two that they don't even begin to overlap, and if those differences would be relatively simple to model (like the differences between the two Premium Jaaaaaaaaaaag XK models) there wouldn't be much of a conflict of interest to having 3 or 4 (or probably even more) legitimate fully Premium variations or one car at the expense of one maybe wholly unique Premium car. I'd certainly see no harm in having the original Golf GTi, with its 110 horsepower and 4 speed because of its historical significance; then the later more powerful 1.8L 5 speed car as well; then the really later South African Golf Citi 1.8iR with its modern interior and slightly different styling as the final one of the "series."




One of the major issues with the current car list that makes so many of the Standard cars expendable even when not talking about true duplicates is the incredibly lazy way so much of it was put together. That includes duplicates. That includes odd omissions at the expense of cars considerably more significant. That includes cars that did have big significance in trim levels, but those trim levels are not the ones represented in the game (like the Eagle Talon ESi instead of the TSi, or the failed Mitsubishi Starion Group B car instead of the road car that was one of the major mainstays of Japanese sports cars of the 1980s). That includes the cars that are horrifically misrepresented, like many of the real race cars are. That really even includes all of those fictional race cars and ultimately irrelevant concept cars from 2+ decades ago.
If the effort was actually put into the car encyclopedia aspect the series seems to enjoy flirting with, you could easily get rid of all of the straight duplicate models and replace them with legitimate model variations and the list would be better off for it. There would still be the ones that are such duds that their inclusion even when they were new was glaring (like the ten year old Opel Vectra, for example) that could be dropped without too much protest, but I'd much rather see 40 Skylines and 2/3rds of them be the more pedestrian models like GTS-Ts or GTS25s or what have you than 40 Skylines and every single one is a GT-R; and the game would be better off for it instead of just chopping out all of the Skylines except the best performing ones because the cars would still all be different. With the first two games, PD seemed to understand that, and while they didn't do the best job replicating for the most part I still highly enjoy the game for allowing me to sample (as an example) 4 different versions of the Z30 Toyota Soarer. If PD are so dead set on chasing raw numbers, that's the reason that they should be doing so; rather than having numbers for numbers' sake like they have since GTPSP.



The issue of many of those 1990s economy cars being increasingly unimportant in modern times is always going to be there so long as those cars are included (mainly when their modern equivalents fail to make an appearance), but there's no reason that PD couldn't at least attempt to head it off.
 
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Let the word spread. I'm naming "premium cars "DI" and standards "SI". I don't mind the SI cars as long as some classic ones are made into DI.
 
I don't agree with that, nor do I think it is even in the same time zone as being a duplicate. How slippery do you want your slopes to be? Do I not include the AP1 S2000, just because it is fairly close to the AP2 S2000 (especially in the context of a driving game, since most of the improvements were focused on increasing liveability rather than the car being any faster)? What about the NSX Type R? That's not too terribly different from any other NSX on paper. They may have half-assed it for everything but the Evo GT-A, but what about cars where they modelled an automatic version and a manual version? Do those get the boot even when there should be drastic differences between the two? What about the M3 CSL vs the regular M3? I could go on.

I'm not seeing how it's a slippery slope if I have a set ideal of criteria that justifies a car. Whether you agree with it or not I couldn't care less. The issue still remains that PD can't model the difference all that well of a car that are similar but not exact. It's easier for them to just say "close enough" and mirror them. If I hadn't sold my GT6 and PS3 I'd test this with the C5 to show this as I did in the past.

As for the NSX v NSX-R it deserves a place far more than the example I gave which is the same gen Z06 just a few years apart and a slight power increase. The NSX type R always got a reduction in weight which helped refine the balance and change the handling noticeably to the standard. The 2002 version and more down force to go along with the reduction of weight thus balancing it in another area and both has massive suspension work done. However, if this can't be detailed then why bother, if I'm basically driving the same thing in the sim though different real world that is an issue.


If there are appreciable real life differences (rather than ones PD fabricated to justify the inclusion of a duplicate, like the Miatas), and those differences are actually modeled (like... probably half the duplicates failed to do), then a car can absolutely be just as worthy of a conclusion as if it was a completely different car.

I agree, no where do I say that it doesn't.


Why? Even Forza 4 didn't do that with its car list. Yeah, it's ridiculous when PD takes the time to model a Premium car, and instead of (say) the hot rod Fiat 500 Abarth we get... the poverty spec 70 horsepower 1.2L version and only that. It's similarly ridiculous when PD model two different Suzuki Swift models whose only difference is the mirrors. But there is plenty of space between the two that they don't even begin to overlap, and if those differences would be relatively simple to model (like the differences between the two Premium Jaaaaaaaaaaag XK models) there wouldn't be much of a conflict of interest to having 3 or 4 (or probably even more) legitimate fully Premium variations or one car at the expense of one maybe wholly unique Premium car. I'd certainly see no harm in having the original Golf GTi, with its 110 horsepower and 4 speed because of its historical significance; then the later more powerful 1.8L 5 speed car as well; then the really later South African Golf Citi 1.8iR with its modern interior and slightly different styling as the final one of the "series."

One I'm not here to compare what T10's list does with PD. As for the Golf that makes sense, a 10-15 hp increase at the crank in the case of the Vette...no.


One of the major issues with the current car list that makes so many of the Standard cars expendable even when not talking about true duplicates is the incredibly lazy way so much of it was put together. That includes duplicates. That includes odd omissions at the expense of cars considerably more significant. That includes cars that did have big significance in trim levels, but those trim levels are not the ones represented in the game (like the Eagle Talon ESi instead of the TSi, or the failed Mitsubishi Starion Group B car instead of the road car that was one of the major mainstays of Japanese sports cars of the 1980s). That includes the cars that are horrifically misrepresented, like many of the real race cars are. That really even includes all of those fictional race cars and ultimately irrelevant concept cars from 2+ decades ago.
If the effort was actually put into the car encyclopedia aspect the series seems to enjoy flirting with, you could easily get rid of all of the straight duplicate models and replace them with legitimate model variations and the list would be better off for it. There would still be the ones that are such duds that their inclusion even when they were new was glaring (like the ten year old Opel Vectra, for example) that could be dropped without too much protest, but I'd much rather see 40 Skylines and 2/3rds of them be the more pedestrian models like GTS-Ts or GTS25s or what have you than 40 Skylines and every single one is a GT-R; and the game would be better off for it instead of just chopping out all of the Skylines except the best performing ones because the cars would still all be different. With the first two games, PD seemed to understand that, and while they didn't do the best job replicating for the most part I still highly enjoy the game for allowing me to sample (as an example) 4 different versions of the Z30 Toyota Soarer. If PD are so dead set on chasing raw numbers, that's the reason that they should be doing so; rather than having numbers for numbers' sake like they have since GTPSP.

Yeah I pretty much agree, so why do you want to have a debate with me?

The issue of many of those 1990s economy cars being increasingly unimportant in modern times is always going to be there so long as those cars are included (mainly when their modern equivalents fail to make an appearance), but there's no reason that PD couldn't at least attempt to head it off.

Okay.
 
I'm not seeing how it's a slippery slope if I have a set ideal of criteria that justifies a car.
Because if cars with actually distinct performance (however minor) isn't enough to "justify a car" because it's too close, why do other cars with similarly minor performance differences "justify a car"?

Whether you agree with it or not I couldn't care less.
So why did you bother saying anything else?
 
Because if cars with actually distinct performance (however minor) isn't enough to "justify a car" because it's too close, why do other cars with similarly minor performance differences "justify a car"?

Which cars do I exactly give a pass on this?


So why did you bother saying anything else?

Because the rest is more general to the topic and not me personally pointing out to you that I'm not here to meet your preference what ever that may be. The main issue I have and why I think standards and duplicates or near duplicates aren't necessary is because a difference in performance has never been achieved or been noticed in PD's work. Unless the cars are massively different like say the Boss 302 and GT500
 
The irony, which I repeat you'll never, ever admit, is that you want a complete revamping of the series the same as most of the vociferous critics around here. The GTPro Mode you advocate bears no resemblence to anything PD/Kaz has ever done, and bears a striking similarity to PCars. Much of it might as well be word for word right out of the SMS homepage. You want the whole concept of PCars with GT's car selection.
I thought I'd give a slightly less glib response before bed. One thing though, I see nothing ironic in wanting to see Gran Turismo improve and get more serious like a number of others. I've only been asking for something like GT Pro mode since 2005, a month after GT4 was released. So I'm way ahead of the curve. To me, that's some irony. ;)

Now, about that P CARS gene splice. It is true that I would probably live most of my GT7 life in GT Pro/FIA GT Mode, as I really do get a kick out of being a virtual Andretti, and this attracts me to other games and sims like the GTRs, and has me interested in P CARS. Heck, it had me breaking out the plastic for GRID Autosport, which... erm... I almost regret buying now. Forza 4 smokes it, and even manages to have better bots! But I digress.

My attraction for the simulation of the whole motorsports world doesn't preclude me from wanting the old school Gran Turismo experience "I grew up with." Plus, it really has to keep that side of itself intact for the sake of the market, because I have no doubt that millions of fans expect that game to be there in GT7. And if Kaz made a sim and slapped the GT7 label on it, many gamers would have conniptions, wondering what had happened to the sandbox game they were expecting, and Arcade Mode.

And then there's also the issue of just what a GT Pro Mode would look like in comparison to P CARS. For one thing, and it's a huge thing, Kaz has already created this concept in the real world, this guy known around the planet as GT Academy. And that's a model I'm hoping he uses as the framework to build a GT Pro Mode, along with some seasoning from things like our SCCA. And I think he will.

What Simply Mad has in mind for P CARS' career, I still don't have any idea. For all I know, it will be kind of like Toca with a "civilian" enthusiast aspect to it. Which will be fine, because all I would like to see in P CARS is a nice, sensible progression, some nice car modding and painting options, and a lot of league racing. Now that, I'm not sure of, because the car list is a little skimpy to say the least - what I don't want to see are mostly one make races, and I have no clue what they intend to give us as far as sports car modding options. Gran Turismo and Forza have spoiled me, especially Forxa with its modding depth and Livery Editor, and Gran Turismo with its deep car list. In particular, GT7 has the potential to offer almost as many league racing options as Toca did, thanks to the wealth of rides. And then there's the issue of Race Mod when it returns properly, which will give us the ability to create race cars of all kinds of variety, likely to include cars that fit fantasy leagues we create.

So generally speaking, a GT7 with a P CARS aspect to it would be killer. But I think Kaz wants to go further.
 
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