Poll: Would you be happy with current standard cars in a PS4 Gran Turismo game?

[twitcher]

Edit:

Double post, oops

 

[Samus]

Yes, I would absolutely take them as opposed to not having them.

Photorealistic graphics aren't a huge deal for me.

That was just the most extreme example. Do you not want consistency though? Does it not bother you to see something looking great next to something looking awful?

 

[Ferrari458Italia]

I do not understand why anyone is voting "Yes"

we are we settling for less now?

 

[TokoTurismo]

I do not understand why anyone is voting "Yes"

we are we settling for less now?

You gotta have that quantity bro. GT7 gotta beat Forza in car count, who needs quality.

 

[gnorman]

As long as it drives properly I couldn't care less what it looks like, or sounds like, coming from the 80s I prefer improved gameplay to prettiness for prettiness' sake. There are a number of things I'd rather were given a higher priority than this. With the finite resources at PD's disposal I'd rather see GPS track creator, B-Spec and a more immersive career mode.

I know I'm in the minority, but I don't care as I know what would make the game more enjoyable for me.

 

[Darren.]

I stand in this community as someone who despised of the standard cars idea from the very start. I mean I would much rather quality over quantity and while having 1000 cars, 71 being Skyline GT-R's alone, may sound impressive it doesn't sound good when you hear that many of the cars are geared towards the 90's and the 00's. I'd much rather be driving my P1 and my LaFerrari than driving an RUF from the late 90's.

 

[Parker]

Would I be happy with them? Absolutely not. That being said, if they are included it won't be a deal breaker to me but I would most definitely prefer a smaller car list with consistent quality than a huge list with a bunch of PS2 era cars.

 

[Akira AC]

I wouldn't be happy and this time around it would affect my view on the game.


Standards in GT5/6 weren't such a big issue because the differences from both in gameplay weren't that significant, and the game offered more variety through standard cars. On a PS4 game though once could expect the content having some sort of consistency, no point having PS2 cars and duplicates in a PS4 game that would probably be a flagship for next gen graphics.


Current premium cars are acceptable, as long as they get a proper refurbishment to make them par with whatever next gen car they release (FM5 did this at some degree with their DLC cars), another thing that cannot be accepted is the STANDARD TRACKS, and that is something that PD really need to get their heads around after the GT6 version of Monaco.

 

[twitcher]

That was just the most extreme example. Do you not want consistency though? Does it not bother you to see something looking great next to something looking awful?

If standards bothered me that much, I wouldn't use them...

If "seeing something looking great next to something looking awful" is that big of a deal to you, you have the option of not putting that awful looking thing next to that good looking thing.

If you remove standards from the game outright, then I don't have the option to use those cars when I choose to.

Does it really bother you guys that much just knowing that standards are on the disk? If you don't use them, and don't see them, how does their presence affect your gaming experience?

I'll requote, what is in my opinion, the cleanest solution I've seen raised.

It wouldn't have to be a DLC pack. GT7 is probably going to have 48-plus gigabytes of Blu-ray space. Just put them on the disc, and give us the option to install them. That way, the graphic purists can have fewer prettier cars, and those of us crazy people who want the Standards can have them. They can laugh at us, and we can ignore them and enjoy our much larger car list.

Options Options Options!!!

 

[Samus]

You could just play GT5 or GT6 to drive those cars. Nobody is taking them away from you there.

Anyway I've already stated the problem with that idea, you know PD would never do it. If they had any plan to do so they'd already have done it with GT5 and GT6.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

But then I'd have to be sure the GT6 servers were still up....

 

[twitcher]

You could just play GT5 or GT6 to drive those cars. Nobody is taking them away from you there.

Anyway I've already stated the problem with that idea, you know PD would never do it. If they had any plan to do so they'd already have done it with GT5 and GT6.

That's still a pretty selfish "my way or the highway" approach.

Myself and others have proposed solutions that would make both sides happy.

Your solution is "accept things the way I want them, or go play a different game."

You still haven't really answered the question of "how does the mere presence of standard cars on the disk affect your gaming experience?"

 

[Samus]

I haven't answered it because we both know PD would never include them in an optional manner as you're suggesting. Even IF they were to do that it would still mean they're spending time on the old assets, even if it's just further polishing and setting them up for the new lighting, new customisation options and so on. That time would be better spent creating proper, modern models.

Between now and the potential release date for GT7 they have plenty of time to get the vast majority of cars currently represented by standard models re-done as a proper, modern model. Sure you might lose a few less popular or older cars, but that's life. There weren't many cars in GT3 but I don't recall an outcry for them to port the PS1 models into it.

Besides we already have 400 odd premium cars, with another few years development we could have 600-700 cars. Is that really not enough? Do you have to have every car that has been in GT since 2004?

 

[TomBrady]

I know I may be hypocritical by saying this, but hell no. Not on PS4

I liked the fact that they were there in GT5 and GT6 because I'd rather have them than not. If they released a PS2 car DLC, that had all the standard cars, I would buy 100% guaranteed so I'm happy they added them for free.

That being said, they have no place on PS4. With PS4, they need to start from scratch, and they really need to pull their heads out of their asses. No more crap AI and sound, no more mediocre car customization, no more promising course makers and delaying it for god knows how long (GT6), they need to hit a home run with GT7 EVEN if it means having a lower car count.

They still have a huge advantage over their competition with physics, tracks, and variety, but they need to fix their issues with sound, AI, and damage.

On the other hand, I would be perfectly fine with them putting premium cars from GT6 on GT7 though

 

[twitcher]

I haven't answered it because we both know PD would never include them in an optional manner as you're suggesting. Even IF they were to do that it would still mean they're spending time on the old assets, even if it's just further polishing and setting them up for the new lighting, new customisation options and so on. That time would be better spent creating proper, modern models.

Between now and the potential release date for GT7 they have plenty of time to get the vast majority of cars currently represented by standard models re-done as a proper, modern model. Sure you might lose a few less popular or older cars, but that's life. There weren't many cars in GT3 but I don't recall an outcry for them to port the PS1 models into it.

Besides we already have 400 odd premium cars, with another few years development we could have 600-700 cars. Is that really not enough? Do you have to have every car that has been in GT since 2004?

So your entire argument is based on the idea that you know what PD will do?

Pre GT5, did any of us think there would be PS2 era cars on the PS3?

Pre GT6, did any of us think essential features and tools would be dropped in favour of moon missions?

I think it's fare to say at this point that the only thing we know about PD is that we have no idea what they will do.

 

[Samus]

No, clearly that was not my whole argument since I went on to describe the problems even if they did.

 

[twitcher]

No, clearly that was not my whole argument since I went on to describe the problems even if they did.

Problems as you see them.

What you describes as "problems" are more like personal issues - issues that not everyone has a problem with.

 

[Samus]

Well what else can I post but my own opinion?

 

[Voodoovaj]

At the very least, the textures need to be uprated. So many of them are terribly low res and it detracts from the other cars.

 

[twitcher]

Well what else can I post but my own opinion?

When you claim to know what PD will do, you're trying to present your opinion as fact.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Each of us has our own desires of course, but the question is really how important the car count is to PD(good marketing and resultant sales) vs. the tradeoff in ridicule and the thumping they'll get from the reviewers by including 2 generation old assets in a current gen game (bad marketing and lost sales). Wherever PD/Sony thinks the answer to that tradeoff lies is what you'll get. I've gotta think they'll go with the latter, because I think they'll be mercilessly mocked in the gaming press and places like GTPlanet if they include Standards in the general game. They would literally be the laughingstock of the sim racing genre.

The only way they can overcome this and make the standard lovers happy is to allow the standards into the game, through an unlock or a DLC package, and only allow them offline. They could then advertise "up to 1XXX cars" and be technically correct and those that want them get them, those that don't, don't, and also we don't have to put up with their crappy textures online either.

Personally I think non-upgraded standards are done with GT6. The upgrades may survive.

 

[alex1369]

I for sure wouldnt, why?
Simple. First its PS4.. much powerfull than ps3.
2nd if they remove 300 skylines and 250 miatas it would save a lot of space and that space might be used to do detailed interiors for other 600 or 700 cars

I wont buy no more GT games cuz they offer nothing, just the same copy paste since GT4. They just add 50 new cars/4 new tracks and they think its a winner. Forget it PD, we we been fooled long enough

 

[twitcher]

Each of us has our own desires of course, but the question is really how important the car count is to PD(good marketing and resultant sales) vs. the tradeoff in ridicule and the thumping they'll get from the reviewers by including 2 generation old assets in a current gen game (bad marketing and lost sales). Wherever PD/Sony thinks the answer to that tradeoff lies is what you'll get. I've gotta think they'll go with the latter, because I think they'll be mercilessly mocked in the gaming press and places like GTPlanet if they include Standards in the general game. They would literally be the laughingstock of the sim racing genre.

The only way they can overcome this and make the standard lovers happy is to allow the standards into the game, through an unlock or a DLC package, and only allow them offline. They could then advertise "up to 1XXX cars" and be technically correct and those that want them get them, those that don't, don't, and also we don't have to put up with their crappy textures online either.

Personally I think non-upgraded standards are done with GT6. The upgrades may survive.

Totally agree with that. PD is definitely stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to the standards. If they take the "all or nothing" approach that a lot of people are suggesting, at least one camp is going to be quite unhappy.

I think though, with the proper marketing spin, a lot of the fallout regarding standards could be avoided. Advertise "GT7 has X number of cars (all premium)," and then also add, "as an added bonus (perhaps on a second disk, or as DLC like you suggested), there are Y number of "standard" cars for all you enthusiasts out there," or something along those lines.

Also, I don't think they would have to be restricted to offline. I think PD could quite easily add an option to the online menus for the the host to either allow or prohibit their use in his/her particular lobby.

In the Q&A section, this potential "solution" was raised:

Hey I thought about a compromise that would make us all happy. For the next GT.
Remove the standard cars from all career races, the grid appears in all premium. So I don't have to see them.
Add a used car dealer that includes all standards so you can still drive them & use them where you like.

Again, just another idea to try to keep both sides happy.

 

[Tenacious D]

Of course you would be fine with million polygon cars beside 4,000 polygon cars? Really?

You keep going at it from an angle that there is going to be this immense jump in quality of the Premium car models when Gran Turismo migrates to PS4. And I seriously doubt that anyone will be able to tell, when in PS3 Photo Mode you can already see lettering on headlamps. And that's what you'll have to do. Take a car, open it up in Photo Mode and STAAAARE at it. And I really doubt that the differences are going to be all that much. The real diffrence is going to be in the lighting engine and recreation of the clearcoat finishes. And the environments, where the real differences are going to be apparent.

Besides, twitcher is right. Sure, you're offering your opinion, but you're hitting everyone over the head with it as if it's common law. "Premiums only for GT7 is the only correct position to have. NO Standards for anyone. Forget it, or go away and play GT6."

I have to ask why my idea of offering the Standards as an optional install is so unthinkable.

And about that sound debate, I really do think it's basically the same sort of thing.

"The Standards are horrible cars. No real human gamer would have anything to do with such pieces of... stuff."

"The sounds in GT6 are just horrible. No real car enthusiast could listen to them without throwing up."

I really like my Standard cars. I like looking at them, racing them, taking pics of them - and not just to annoy people here. And I'm not alone. There's an entire thread of Standard car Photo Mode pics with some delicious shots of them.

I also don't get the hysterics and need to lie about the car sounds. I think they're okay, many sound great. I left the car sound volume up in replays for the first time since we could set the relative levels. I get a sense of a car revving around a turn, not a car shaped chassis filled with moshing death gerbils.

Am I stupid because I happen to have a different view? Is my attitude evil?? Or could it possibly that people are too wrapped up in their own notions that they feel the need to make people who think differently feel bad about daring to speak their mind? Is the only opinion allowed The Mob Rule opinion?

It's not acceptable to post untruths.

Are you going to be policing the sound debates so scrupulously? There's certainly a lot of, shall we say, exaggeration going on in them.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You keep going at it from an angle that there is going to be this immense jump in quality of the Premium car models when Gran Turismo migrates to PS4. And I seriously doubt that anyone will be able to tell, when in PS3 Photo Mode you can already see lettering on headlamps. And that's what you'll have to do.++++

It's much more than that though isn't it? Some of the standards look god awful. No interior vs. fully detailed interior. Closed hood vs. possible fully detailed engine bay. Paint textures. How will liveries work with standards or will they work at all? We presume the photomode quality we now have will be the new race quality and PS4 screenshots from PCars and DriveClub confirm this. The standards will look even worse than they do now beside photomode quality cars on track. Do you really want your beloved Gran Turismo to become a laughing stock?

 

[Tornado]

Or could it possibly that people are too wrapped up in their own notions that they feel the need to make people who think differently feel bad about daring to speak their mind?

Half of your posts have the words "grinch" or "grouch" or "grump" or "zombies" or some other similarly stupid label in a particularly transparent attempt to make people sound as if they have issues with things simply because they want to be unhappy with things so you don't actually have to debate what they are saying, so why don't you start by answering that question yourself?

Are you going to be policing the sound debates so scrupulously? There's certainly a lot of, shall we say, exaggeration going on in them.

Like "roaring V8 engines"?

 

[Samus]

You keep going at it from an angle that there is going to be this immense jump in quality of the Premium car models when Gran Turismo migrates to PS4.

You're not quite following, we had already established you and twitcher would be happy with them in GT7 on PS4. I was going hypothetical, asking how good the other models and rest of the game would get before you found the standards offputting or out of place.

So, would you be happy like him? In a completely photorealistic world, to see the PS2 models as part of it? I'm trying to work out where the limit is here.

And I seriously doubt that anyone will be able to tell, when in PS3 Photo Mode you can already see lettering on headlamps. And that's what you'll have to do. Take a car, open it up in Photo Mode and STAAAARE at it. And I really doubt that the differences are going to be all that much. The real diffrence is going to be in the lighting engine and recreation of the clearcoat finishes. And the environments, where the real differences are going to be apparent.

The differences are already substancial, you've seen the evidence as much as anyone. Sure you can keep posting your selected photos, from long distance or angles that hide the worst bits but when you're playing you can certainly see the lower quality, whether you pretend you can't or not.

One of the images you like posting is of the GT1 Lambo, of course from a distance. When I was doing that AI testing a few weeks back I drove that car like you did and it was immediately noticable right from the start with the shots of the car before the race started. The awful textures and drawn on features were there staring me in the face. They looked awful in the PS3 landscape, they're only going to look worse in PS4 landscapes.

Oh and if you're talking about the difference between PS3 photomode premiums and in game PS4 models do bear in mind those photomode models are far higher LOD than what you currently see in the race on PS3. You might not notice much difference in photomode but you will in game.

Besides, twitcher is right. Sure, you're offering your opinion, but you're hitting everyone over the head with it as if it's common law. "Premiums only for GT7 is the only correct position to have. NO Standards for anyone. Forget it, or go away and play GT6."

Except I never said that. I created a poll to see what people here would be happy with. The overwhelming majority that voted would not be happy with them. You, I'm afraid, are in the minority.

I have to ask why my idea of offering the Standards as an optional install is so unthinkable.

Let me ask you one question. Why did they not do that with GT5 or GT6 and why do you suddenly think they'd do it for GT7?

And about that sound debate, I really do think it's basically the same sort of thing.

"The Standards are horrible cars. No real human gamer would have anything to do with such pieces of... stuff."

"The sounds in GT6 are just horrible. No real car enthusiast could listen to them without throwing up."

You do realise your arguments are EXACTLY the same, only the opposite, right? There are no facts here, when someone says they think the tyre noise is atrocious and you say they're lying, they're not atrocious, you're just saying the same as they are. An opinion, albeit the opposite one.

I really like my Standard cars. I like looking at them, racing them, taking pics of them - and not just to annoy people here. And I'm not alone. There's an entire thread of Standard car Photo Mode pics with some delicious shots of them.

You might not be alone but you're in the minority.

I also don't get the hysterics and need to lie about the car sounds. I think they're okay, many sound great. I left the car sound volume up in replays for the first time since we could set the relative levels. I get a sense of a car revving around a turn, not a car shaped chassis filled with moshing death gerbils.

See above. You are doing the exact same thing. Nobody is lying about car sounds, if they think they sound like a hoover they think they sound like a hoover. If you think they sound great, you think they sound great. Nobody is right.

Am I stupid because I happen to have a different view? Is my attitude evil?? Or could it possibly that people are too wrapped up in their own notions that they feel the need to make people who think differently feel bad about daring to speak their mind? Is the only opinion allowed The Mob Rule opinion?

Again, see the above. You're doing exactly the same, wrapped up in your own notions and as I pointed out, you are in the minority.

Are you going to be policing the sound debates so scrupulously? There's certainly a lot of, shall we say, exaggeration going on in them.

..and repeat the above again.

 

[IceMan PJN]

The question is as simple as can be. The next Gran Turismo game is almost certainly going to be on the Playstation 4 console. In that game, will you be happy to see standard cars in it? The definition of a standard car is simple, any 3D model that started life on the Playstation 2 games and subsequently included in GT5 and GT6, either as-is or touched up. So yes, that includes the worst of them and the best touched up, but still standard models.

I don't know why this wording is limiting "standard" to just cars beginning on PS2. If we're talking about a PS4 game, any model from anything other than PS4 would be an inferior, outdated model and qualify as "standard" by PD logic. I normally favored "sub-standard," but... Whatever. With GT5 you had two groups of cars: "premium" built for PS3 and "standard" copy-pasted from older, lesser hardware. Applying the same logic to PS4 would make 100% of GT5 and GT6 content "standard."

 

[Samus]

Well it's not quite the same. With Gran Turismo 3/4 all of the car models in the game were at PS2 level for in game use, there was one top level model for each car, used in game. With GT5 and GT6 you have photomode which displays cars in much higher detail than can be used in game. So those models are, at least on the exterior and generally speaking, good enough for PS4. What were previously only photomode levels of detail will be seen in game.Just as with Forza 4, Autovista car details are now seen in game on Forza 5.

The PS2 models on the other hand, are in no way fit for straight usage on PS4.

 

[Normalaatsra]

Very good introductory message, Samus.

I vote no because I think it's a good time for GT to start fresh again as a famous driving simulator. GT3 was essentially this, all the cars in GT2 are left behind and brand new, ground-up models were designed. GT3 indeed lacked in it's car list, but in the PS2 era, it was immense improvement.