Polyphony are technical wizards!

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Technical wizards who are unable to code a livery editor, and who make the game with the most screen tear ever.
You gotta keep in mind what the game is doing. It's ALWAYS a trade off. Forza you get things like livery editor. But you get no night racing or weather. Everything you add increases the memory footprint. It's a design choice, and as much as I want a better way to paint my cars, I'd take weather and night racing over a sunny day for every race.

Now... I just HOPE to God that PD can actually deliver a livery editor going into next gen... and better sound... and.. more premium cars.

But I digress. 3D graphics is always give and take...

EDIT: I want to note, those with screen tearing problems, go to Options > Display > Image Quality (or something like that) and then "Flicker Reduction" it removes temporal anti aliasing, so you see more jaggies, but I have not had screen tearing as a problem. I've been running in 1080p the whole time too. Then again. I haven't done many raining races (haven't touched the "rainmasters" yet) but so far so good.
 
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And also take into consideration development time and what else they're giving us instead of a livery editor. We're getting a robust course creator with GPS support in an update, which is a game changer and something I much prefer in a racing game over a livery editor.
 
And also take into consideration development time and what else they're giving us instead of a livery editor. We're getting a robust course creator with GPS support in an update, which is a game changer and something I much prefer in a racing game over a livery editor.
No doubt. Though, I wish they'd expand their teams considerably. At least, they need more modelers (cars and tracks) as well as sound recorders. I think their programming/design department is fine for now. They just need to deal with the massive disparity in cars. I'm not asking for "Forzavita" because I think modeling under the bonnet/etc is just a waste of time and space. Give me interior, give me exterior, give me great sound and great tracks. Keep up the great work in adding features and I think we'll be fine.
 
Oh Really? Please explain what makes them better? Again, FM is the only series which offers something similar to GT (depending on your preferences even better).
Emmm; fixed starts, balanced grids, having to fight for the win, strong AI opposition? Every racing game apart from GT? :dopey:
Geez, what an argument. You can check my post history, btw, I was a very big critic of GT5 ;)
Yet you are satisfied with GT6 which is practically the same?
So I guess you don't own GT6 and haven't really played it so far, right? Keep in mind that only people who have connection issues will post about it. You won't see many "my connection is awesome! xD" posts.
Don't need to own it as i played GT5 inside out, and i know the franchise well enough to reserve the right to an opinion.
Thats not true. The 24 min endurance races are terrific (especially if you don't use op cars). Racing trough a monsoon like rain in Spa at night is a expierience you will only get with GT6.
But I agree with you about the enduros, I miss them too.
24 min endurance races, don't you feel there is something wrong with that sentence? :D
GT6s premium (and semi premiums) look almost next gen. Again, show me any racer besides Forza offering a "more quality" car roster. And no "GT6 is full of eco boxes lol Shift 2 haz a e30!!!!11" posts. Name a game with more detailed cars, which also sound better and which also came close to GT numbers.
GT numbers will be difficult as most developers choose to not port over hundreds of cars from a last gen installment.
Even still if you want to talk about "balance", most games provide a better selection of cars even tough the numbers are less, there aren't hundreds of duplicates nor the eternal emphasis on cars from one particular region...
Yes, a thread on Gtp is all the proof you need, especially if you don't own the game yourself. Even if this were true, besides GT5/P no other racing game on last gen consoles, even Forza, comes close to GT6.
This argument again? Last attempt to find a way to discredit my opinion no? :lol:
I agree that FM has overtaken GT in recent years, still its a xBox exclusive and I definitely won't buy a Xbone for it, especially when it lacks so much power to the PS4. I am currently playing NFS Rivals on Ps4 which is alot of fun for a arcade racer (nice online implementation) and looks really nice, but will it entertain me for months/years as a GT game? No. Played Grid 1 for 2 months had some fun, never touched it again. Grid 2 only lasted 3 weeks. F1 games get IMO worse each year, haven't finished a single season in F1 2012 and have yet to buy 2013. Played NFS Shift, didn't like it, as a arcade-sim Grid 2 had a nicer car roster, better damage system and carreer mode. Didn't touch Shift 2.
Pc Sims are a beast oft their own.
Well i agree most of these games don't really compare to GT and have to deal with less means or different priorities, but you can't deny that even still they take care of certain aspects a lot better quality wise than what PD is putting on the shelves nowadays...
 
We're getting a robust course creator with GPS support in an update, which is a game changer and something I much prefer in a racing game over a livery editor.

"Getting" is the important thing in that statement.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty excited by what they've said they're doing. But we haven't seen it, and we can't judge what we don't have. PD have a bit of a tendency to either change their mind outright (we can release any time we want!/100kmx100km) or do it in such a way as to only fulfill their statements as a technicality (leaderboards in GT5).

Right now, the game doesn't have the feature. It's a bit like the sounds thing. Sure, it's great to know that they're working on it. But fine words butter no parsnips.

Once they put some of these game changing features out (and they do supposedly have some on the way) there will be time enough for hailing PD as technical wizards. With what we have now, I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing a minor evolution of a game with some questionable "optimisation" choices. It may all be different in 12 months, but we may all be dead of Andalusian Spouting Cough, so who knows.
 
You can't blame the PS3:lol:

PD know its limits and went over them. Its their job to optimise it.
GT5p was fantastic looking with higher resolution textures and 1440x1080 resolution.
GT5 saw a drop in texture quality and resolution to 1280x1080
GT6 has upped the resolution to 1440x1080 at the cost of AA and framerate. The actual image quality is the worst of the three by far.

And on what iteration exactly did PD went over it? In 5P,5 or 6? Unless I’m mistaken, we have little knowledge on the render engine efficiency in terms of processor load and we still know little on how much PD will/can add in terms of upgraded features. And if we can’t blame PS3 for it’s limited gaming capabilities, maybe we can blame the genre for having possibly the most moving polygons per second rate...maybe.
 
...Yet you are satisfied with GT6 which is practically the same?
It really isn't - I tried explaining this previously, seeing vids and reading reviews or even seeing some of the better photomode shots that are natural and untampered with, none of that will prepare you for running a race under adverse conditions - the feeling of exhileration you get tells you that there is a whole world of sensation which has opened up in GT6 compared to GT5; that's not something you can get from looking at images and watching YouTube clips.

...Don't need to own it as i played GT5 inside out, and i know the franchise well enough to reserve the right to an opinion...
Having an opinion of something you have not experienced doesn't quite have the same kind of weight as if you had.

I know it sounds like I'm saying you should get the game - well, that'd always be your call. I am getting a little weary of seeing the same thing being posted time and again. Like the vacuum comments on another thread, they're getting old.
 
It really isn't - I tried explaining this previously, seeing vids and reading reviews or even seeing some of the better photomode shots that are natural and untampered with, none of that will prepare you for running a race under adverse conditions - the feeling of exhileration you get tells you that there is a whole world of sensation which has opened up in GT6 compared to GT5; that's not something you can get from looking at images and watching YouTube clips.

Having an opinion of something you have not experienced doesn't quite have the same kind of weight as if you had.
And like i said back then, the hotlapping would be satisfying to me also because of the physics and day/night transitions but apart from that there just isn't much to attract me to the game anymore.

I know it sounds like I'm saying you should get the game - well, that'd always be your call. I am getting a little weary of seeing the same thing being posted time and again. Like the vacuum comments on another thread, they're getting old.
I won't; was thinking about picking it up second hand at first, but i will skip it altogether now unless miracle patches solve sounds, AI and race format (but that won't happen).

About the comments getting old, what is getting old to me is those same flaws they never bother to fix...
 
You can't blame the PS3:lol:

PD know its limits and went over them. Its their job to optimise it.
GT5p was fantastic looking with higher resolution textures and 1440x1080 resolution.
GT5 saw a drop in texture quality and resolution to 1280x1080
GT6 has upped the resolution to 1440x1080 at the cost of AA and framerate. The actual image quality is the worst of the three by far.

I would take 1280 with aa over 1440 without aa any day. That being said, in game the lack of aa isn't really that detracting most of the time and I think overall the lighting is a bit better. If they would just use aa on the white road lines it would help a ton. I would take the 1FPS hit for that. I know they could make that happen.

What really bugs me are those awful shadows that turn to big blobs and appear and disappear 30 times a second and crawl up and down the screen in the distance. That is the biggest WTFPD thing I see on the screen at the moment.
 
And on what iteration exactly did PD went over it? In 5P,5 or 6? Unless I’m mistaken, we have little knowledge on the render engine efficiency in terms of processor load and we still know little on how much PD will/can add in terms of upgraded features. And if we can’t blame PS3 for it’s limited gaming capabilities, maybe we can blame the genre for having possibly the most moving polygons per second rate...maybe.

Why do we need to know?
PD know the render engine efficiency and processor load thats what matters and they have clearly gone past it as witnessed by poor framerate and screen tearing.

A developers job is to optimise it and in a simulation racing game where fractions of a second matter then framerate/feedback should be priority over graphics.
This is one area Turn10 are well ahead of PD with faultless 60fps at all times!
 
Why do we need to know?
PD know the render engine efficiency and processor load thats what matters and they have clearly gone past it as witnessed by poor framerate and screen tearing.

A developers job is to optimise it and in a simulation racing game where fractions of a second matter then framerate/feedback should be priority over graphics.
This is one area Turn10 are well ahead of PD with faultless 60fps at all times!

How does switching to 720P help the “poor frame rate and screen tearing”?:confused:
 
So eventually PD provides you the option to prioritize feedback over graphics, should you be annoyed by unbearable tearing and frame rate drops...
If i understand you correctly then yes it would be good to have PC style graphic/effect options.
 
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Options are always a good thing. But I doubt a finite piece of hardware will ever provide you the opportunities of multiple/dedicated/powerfull PC graphic cards.
 
You can't blame the PS3:lol:

PD know its limits and went over them. Its their job to optimise it.
GT5p was fantastic looking with higher resolution textures and 1440x1080 resolution.
GT5 saw a drop in texture quality and resolution to 1280x1080
GT6 has upped the resolution to 1440x1080 at the cost of AA and framerate. The actual image quality is the worst of the three by far.
GT5 Prologue had only graphics, not much more... very few cars, very few tracks, and the physics were much more simple and undeveloped, like a beta of what we have now.
 
Less stress obviously!
720p roughly 921,000 pixels output
1080p roughly 2,200,000 pixels output



http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-gran-turismo-5-tech-analysis

Forza 4 framerate analysis

http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/forza-4-racing-performance-analysis

That video from GT5 is also pre-performance update where they took out a lot of extra frills in the tracks to make the gam run a lot more stable.



So eventually PD provides you the option to prioritize feedback over graphics, should you be annoyed by unbearable tearing and frame rate drops...
If i understand you correctly then yes it would be good to have PC style graphic/effect options.

In GT6 go to Options > Display > Image Quality "Flicker Reduction"

You get more jaggies but less screen tearing. Huge improvements.
 
That video from GT5 is also pre-performance update where they took out a lot of extra frills in the tracks to make the gam run a lot more stable.






In GT6 go to Options > Display > Image Quality "Flicker Reduction"

You get more jaggies but less screen tearing. Huge improvements.


If anything, these graphs and stats depict PD’s will and abilitiy at perfecting their game.

Ver1.00 Avg:52.781fps Min-Max:44.0-60.0fps Tear:74.167%(73.021%)
Ver2.03 Avg:60.000fps Min-Max:60.0-60.0fps Tear: 0.911%( 0.833%)


The v2.03 figures make you really wonder what they have in mind to reconsider a new build to start with...

Anyone here with the ability to put GT6 under this kind of tool?
 
That video from GT5 is also pre-performance update where they took out a lot of extra frills in the tracks to make the gam run a lot more stable.






In GT6 go to Options > Display > Image Quality "Flicker Reduction"

You get more jaggies but less screen tearing. Huge improvements.

I think you'll find flicker reduction brings the framerate crashing even further down.
Sharpen gives you more (than the already horrendous aliasing) jaggies but slightly better framerate as it disables TAA.

Doesn't matter what they improved in GT5, they are now on GT6 over 3 years later and have again shipped a game with dreadful framerate, not only that, it is actually worse than GT5 and with poorer image quality.
 
I don' get what everybody is babbling about. Sure PD are technical wizards, only they're held back by hardware limitations. Also, I feel like GT6 is a gorgeous looking game in many aspects most of the time and I'd choose it's graphics over GT5's any day. About prologue, maybe that's better indeed, but then again it also lacks much content compared to GT5/GT6.
 
I don' get what everybody is babbling about. Sure PD are technical wizards, only they're held back by hardware limitations.
So PD keeps telling us.
I'm just going to ASSume the game itself is written poorly and isn't greatly optimized for the hardware running it.
If they are such wizards, why are they trying to push graphics further and further, and I'll say unsuccessfully, at the expense of frame rate and other things?
 
PD went over (or very close) to the limit, sure they made a good job but that's something for the PS4. I think that the GT5 graphics with the new lighting system would have worked better.
Appart from that, PD spent time making the new graphics engine (or whatever it is) and the astronomical simulation thing (sure it looks great but for me is quite unreal, the human eye cannot see as many stars as GT6 shows), that time could have been used for improving the sounds or making semi-premium/premuim all cars.
 
The best part is for PS4, PD won't need to make a new engine, since the engine GT6 is using will be used for GT7 but I think it will be upgraded as well.
 
And also take into consideration development time and what else they're giving us instead of a livery editor. We're getting a robust course creator with GPS support in an update, which is a game changer and something I much prefer in a racing game over a livery editor.

PD has overpromised and underdelivered before, so I don't see advertised features that have no scheduled date for inclusion as an excuse for other shortcomings.

The best part is for PS4, PD won't need to make a new engine, since the engine GT6 is using will be used for GT7 but I think it will be upgraded as well.

I seem to recall one of the excuses given for GT5's extensive delays being that the physics model would be the basis for future Gran Turismo games. Then the physics model was constantly tweaked throughout GT5's lifetime and completely redone for GT6 anyway. I would not be surprised if other aspects of their futureproofing turn out exactly the same, so again I don't see shortcomings with the current games as a sign that features in future games will be much superior.
 
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We're both making judgements based on opinion, so that's not getting you anywhere.

However, I'm making my judgements based on business experience and practical experience of Japanese working culture. You're apparently making yours based on stereotypes and press releases.
Actually, you're some person on the internets making outlandish statements, and stating them as if they're established truth.

To be honest, my brother lives IN Japan, has a Japanese national for a wife, and we had quite an amusing discussion over your assertions. He spent quite some time striking up friendships with Japanese nationals over the years to learn just what he would be jumping into if as a "barbarian," he actually emigrated to Japan. This is what he told me.

Kazunori is a typical Japanese manager, possibly, but says that perhaps not firing anyone in 15 years means he's a better manager than most because he picks his people well. He said that in many cases, jobs are for life, so it's rare for anyone to get fired unless their performance is incredibly bad and stays that way. It's shameful to the employee, his family, the boss and the business. So almost always, people considered slackers are given pep talks by the boss and other employees encourage them to "do your best!" And they almost always shape up. He also says that Japanese aren't stupid. They don't apply for jobs that are over their heads. Slackers go for service or clerk jobs.

The one thing that he did mention is that for some reason, business values time on the job as much as productivity. So bosses gripe at people who put in eight(point five) hour days as if they're leaving early.

And for a more authoritative source, American, so there, Asian Americans Are Smarter, Richer, And Harder-Working Than Everyone Else.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-rise-of-asian-americans-charts-2013-6#ixzz2qYEJ1rhz.


And basically what you're saying has no meaning whatsoever. Kazunori is a bad manager because you must eventually start firing people because inevitably people are bad workers.

This has absolutely zero value as a talking point whatsoever, because it's based on nothing but your opinion. Philosophy class would shoot this down immediately. The only thing that makes any sense with you is that you'll find any sort of thread or tangent of a line of reasoning to criticize Kazunori, or Polyphony, or Gran Turismo. And frankly, I have to wonder why someone so hell bent on being critical at all cost of everyone and everything connected with Gran Turismo hangs out here. I don't get you.

Well, actually I do. You're the little kid who will say things and dare people to disagree, and then if anyone says something to you, your response is "Nuh-uh" or "Prove it." After I posted about Kaz using a GT6 build to test out settings for the team's car at the Nurburgring 24 Hours, you're the one who sniped back, "Oh, all kinds of teams use video games to test their car's settings." No validation whatsoever, just "Oh yeah? They all do it."

So it was up to ME to even see if you were remotely right. And you evidently weren't because the only source I could find was for rFactor Pro, which is not a video game, but simulation software which can be tailored for the special needs of racing teams to prove their designs.

Basically, I consider it very poor boardmanship to go spouting stuff, and then any time someone counters you, you throw up that silly "source" line. Whatever... I might consider challenging everything you say so you can see how fun it is to dredge up articles online to support your claims, but I don't really care what you post anymore, since all you want to do is knock this place's reason for existing.

So, judgment based on opinion and familiarity with Oz (oh, and actual work experience): bad. Judgment based on tired stereotypes: not bad.

Gotcha.
Meaningless, wothless, disposable... gotcha.

I seem to recall one of the excuses given for GT5's extensive delays being that the physics model would be the basis for future Gran Turismo games. Then the physics model was constantly tweaked throughout GT5's lifetime and completely redone for GT6 anyway. I would not be surprised if other aspects of their futureproofing turn out exactly the same, so again I don't see shortcomings with the current games as a sign that features in future games will be much superior.
GT6 has a far superior physics engine, you even said so sort of, kind of... maybe yourself, so I don't get the bold part.
 
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Emmm; fixed starts, balanced grids, having to fight for the win, strong AI opposition? Every racing game apart from GT? :dopey:

Funny, most "other" racing games have rubber band Ai. You either have hardcore PC sims (carreer mode: racing full seasons in certain racing series) or arcade racers (Grid/Shift etc. If you think those games have better carreer mode... then lol). Between them are GT and Forza.
Your complains focus on the game play, not carreer mode.
Also, how do you know GT6 is easy? Maybe you are good enough to qualify for GTA finals, but most of us not. The fact that so many of us noticed the AI slowing fown shows that we had a hard time winning those races.

Yet you are satisfied with GT6 which is practically the same?
How do you know without playing it?

Don't need to own it as i played GT5 inside out, and i know the franchise well enough to reserve the right to an opinion.
Of course you do, still doesn't change the fact that your ******** at a game you haven't played at all. PP/Tyre restrictions alone make GT6s singleplayer alot different from GT5s.

24 min endurance races, don't you feel there is something wrong with that sentence? :D
I only call them such because they are the enduros in GT6 :D
Still they are longer and more intense than any events in other console racers.

GT numbers will be difficult as most developers choose to not port over hundreds of cars from a last gen installment.
Even still if you want to talk about "balance", most games provide a better selection of cars even tough the numbers are less, there aren't hundreds of duplicates nor the eternal emphasis on cars from one particular region...

Seriously, I am sick of having to repeat myself. I'm talking about PREMIUMS. Cars build from scratch for GT5 and GT6. Those cars were not ported over from GT4. Even not counting "duplicates", you still have 200-300 (dont know the exact number) of unique premium vehicles. Forza is the only game which offers more.

This argument again? Last attempt to find a way to discredit my opinion no? :lol:
Well i agree most of these games don't really compare to GT and have to deal with less means or different priorities, but you can't deny that even still they take care of certain aspects a lot better quality wise than what PD is putting on the shelves nowadays...

Well you have to admit its hard to proof someone wrong when he/she has yet to play the discussed game.
Grid/Shift doing certain aspects better quality wise? You know how ****** those 720p/30fps racers look and play on PS3? Maybe they are great on PC, but not on last gen consoles.

And yes. You are right. They don't compare to GT because they have different priorities. The only game which does is Forza.

I think you were disappointed alot by GT5 (which is justified) and are now very sceptic about GT6. Maybe you should try it out by renting a copy from a friend or buy it when it gets cheap. I'm sure it will suprise you in a positive way (atleast I hope so because it did it for me).
 
I seem to recall one of the excuses given for GT5's extensive delays being that the physics model would be the basis for future Gran Turismo games. Then the physics model was constantly tweaked throughout GT5's lifetime and completely redone for GT6 anyway. I would not be surprised if other aspects of their futureproofing turn out exactly the same, so again I don't see shortcomings with the current games as a sign that features in future games will be much superior.
I kinda think it's pretty superior. :) Just needs alittle upgrade in graphics and physics to make it even better for PS4. 👍
@ Are premium cars next gen enough - discussion
Driveclub has 250,000 polygon cars
You bet! 👍

acura-nsx-gran-turismo-what-638x352.jpg
 
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