Potato...

[IncredibleMind]

I personally have a problem with the games extremely smooth track surfaces more than even the physics. It’s like every track is freshly paved and there are no track irregularities whatsoever. This is completely unrealistic and I have no idea what PD is thinking.

 

[VBR]

@dabz343...as someone explained earlier in the thread, I think because they are Japanese, they will want to figure out things for themselves, regardless of the time it takes or the number of incorrect paths that are taken to go forwards...

I've been doing some research into this, & it's a phenomenon in Japanese culture called mentsu. Read more about it here:

https://www.japanintercultural.com/en/news/default.aspx?newsID=59


👍

 

[Hasnain282]

Nice vid, I subscribe. I think he posts on here from time to time but I can't remember the username.

@kart.no.38
Been a while since I've seen him here though

 

[breeminator]

I personally have a problem with the games extremely smooth track surfaces more than even the physics. It’s like every track is freshly paved and there are no track irregularities whatsoever. This is completely unrealistic and I have no idea what PD is thinking.

The graphics simply aren't up to the job of conveying road surface variations. In real life I modulate the throttle in response to seeing surface defects and judging the extent to which they will affect the tyres and the timing of that happening. Until we can see them on screen well enough to do that, I'd rather we had perfectly smooth tracks than have defects that we can't possibly deal with like we would in real life.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Personally I think PD is trying to split the hair of a feeling of realism coupled with making it easier for normally skilled drivers to race side by side online and maintain easier control lessening crashes and incidents on track therefor giving all online participants a more positive based experience concerning online races.

Like it or not sales and participation numbers of just casual gamers/racers is where PD receives the majority of their income from.

Due to that fact compromises to physics may well be the victim for the more hardcore or realistic seeking racers.

E Sports popularity as far as people watching does not rely on super accurate physics but on the quality of the racing in the show, multiple battles and side by side jockeying for position to keep the race exciting is what draws the spectators, not whether the track has better grip on one line and deviating from that causes a driver to spin out.

PD I do not think is trying to make the most accurate sim physics wise on the market but put out a game that while still offering a challenge at the limits is easier for those not at the pointed end of the spear to also drive somewhat competitively and have fun.

I really think they are trying to balance this to increase online racing and they will never totally please either side and they realize that, but the goal is to make on both sides concessions the other side can tolerate and work around as the overall product following is what needs to be successful.

For the online, e-racing and the popularity of those I think they are trying to make it easier for the FIA races to keep the fans on the edge of their seats from the green flag to the checkered flag.

Overall I see good points and bad points to both sides but in reality on one hand PD is doing something that is neither totally arcade or totally hardcore and sales numbers I think have then doing pretty well straddling the fence as compared to the games that do lean more hardcore on the realistics.

 

[VBR]

I personally have a problem with the games extremely smooth track surfaces more than even the physics. It’s like every track is freshly paved and there are no track irregularities whatsoever. This is completely unrealistic and I have no idea what PD is thinking.

I've hated this as long as I've been playing GT games. However, there are a few exceptions such as Daytona Road from GT5. I think the problem is more with GT's "Magic Suspension" than with road surface detail, as most tracks are now laser scanned. The surface detail is there but is being soaked up, & certainly not conveyed well via FFB.

 

[IncredibleMind]

The graphics simply aren't up to the job of conveying road surface variations. In real life I modulate the throttle in response to seeing surface defects and judging the extent to which they will affect the tyres and the timing of that happening. Until we can see them on screen well enough to do that, I'd rather we had perfectly smooth tracks than have defects that we can't possibly deal with like we would in real life.

I respect your experienced angle. However, I do not ever recall playing any racer that had tracks as consistently smooth as GT Sport. This certainly doesn’t happen in a real car. Asseta Corsa Competizione certainly does an amazing job with having what appears to be realistic/natural surfaces so perhaps PD should look into their solution. The sense of speed is also much better.

Maybe PD should consider adding an option for screen shaking. I cannot imagine that there isn’t some overriding philosophy for them to not have this though. The current design is unrealistic to the point that they would be better finding an alternative that acts as a substitute before the tech catches up.

As it now stands, for myself this destroys the immersion.

I've hated this as long as I've been playing GT games. However, there are a few exceptions such as Daytona Road from GT5. I think the problem is more with GT's "Magic Suspension" than with road surface detail, as most tracks are now laser scanned. The surface detail is there but is being soaked up, & certainly not conveyed well via FFB.

That is the sense of speed and racing I hope PD conveys in GT7. Just the way the steering wheel looks just a slight bit unstable under the racer’s hands, the sense of speed and the subtle undulations where the road has irregulaties.

I simply cannot understand how a well funded studio like PD couldn’t easily nail this stuff down.

 

[sdi_03]

I find it quite funny, that those who defend 1:38 physics, also say that its realistic to use shiftlock to help car turn in corners.
Like mentioned in d perell video.
Smashing down gears so engine locks rear wheels, its basically the same as handbrake use.

I think what really is bugging the ”tip of the spear” is that you cant abuse the wierd physics in new update. And its bugging their ego, to find out that someone is now faster.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Asseta Corsa Competizione certainly does an amazing job with having what appears to be realistic/natural surfaces so perhaps PD should look into their solution. The sense of speed is also much better.

Assetto Competizione is also a PC based title and those "realistic/ natural surfaces" also eat up more resources. You will not play this game with the eye candy on a 300.00 priced new PC as you can play GTS on a new 300.00 PS4

These are the "recommended computer specs" as given by the games studio Kunos.

• Requires a 64-bit processor and operating system
  
• OS: Windows 10 64-bit
  
• Processor: Intel Core i5-8600K or AMD Ryzen 5 2600X
  
• Memory: 16 GB RAM
  
• Graphics: GeForce GTX 1070 8 GB, Radeon RX 580 8GB
  
• DirectX: Version 11
  
• Storage: 50 GB available space
  
• Sound Card: Integrated

Sort of hard to compare features be implemented on a PS4 spec based game to the latest release of a PC based game using the above recommended platform specifications.

I do have the new ACC Competizone game and it does look very nice, the tracks are nice and the weather is well implemented.
I have not spent ample time with the title yet to go further into an opinion of the game.

But to be honest and I knew this before I bought the game with the limited 1 series cars and tracks this game will probably not maintain a several year play-ability lifespan that a title like GTS is able to do.

 

[Groundfish]

Why does this thread remind me of this?



Let’s take an overall look here...Which game is best overall for driving and racing on ps4? Yeah GT SPORT. I’d say that PC2 has too many immersion destroying graphics issues like the whole track flickering up ahead where you are looking to be considered a competitor, but has its perks like weather so there’s that. Dirt Rally 2 is close second to GT Sport.
AC has arguably the best driving experience, but graphics aren’t great, ffb is pretty decent. There’s plenty of sources out there (google is your friend) that pretty much rate them like that.

I have to admit though I am definitely reminded of that clip above when reading the posts.

I guess I can see why people’s feelings are being hurt by people enjoying GT Sport physics, because really there’s two arguments against GT Sport.

One is to go project mayhem and say it’s not S I M. The other is to claim other games have better P H Y S I C S.

As GT Sports evolution brings it closer and closer to total domination of the market on PS4 it seems that people left in the past have no recourse but to try to go project mayhem on it.

Rawr rawr raw GT SPort makes me wanna puke rawr rawr
YEah wish it was more real like this you tube video here
NAH NAH this one here’s better look this guys a driving genius he’s like 23 years old he knows everything about Motorsport
Rawr rawr raw understeer rawr rawr
Rawr rawr smooth trackRawr rawr. Rawr rawr

There was even one thread I read where project mayhem was complaining about a ffb effect happening during a vehicle state.

The funny thing was the poster didn’t know the difference between under and over when used in conjunction with the word steer.

Rawr rawr raw his name is Robert paulson

 

[Sander 001]

I personally have a problem with the games extremely smooth track surfaces more than even the physics. It’s like every track is freshly paved and there are no track irregularities whatsoever. This is completely unrealistic and I have no idea what PD is thinking.

GT Sport is actually more realistic in this regard because it’s accounting for the vestibular system.

 

[Groundfish]

If I had to guess I would say at some point PD will run diff physics for diff levels of the game.

Obviously they can make the cars handle however they want.

They can run the more realistic physics above a certain level and keep the lower levels more casual.

I kinda wonder if the game doesn’t do a bit of that now. As @sdi_03 and a few others have noticed, it almost seems at times as if the game can grant a higher fidelity ffb and physics at times.

Whether or not that’s true, I think the multiple physics level of fidelity for diff experience levels and competitions would be the way to go.

The playerbase is so large and not everyone has the time to play 24-7 like a lot of p,Ayers.

 

[Slapped]

In GTS I've religiously done my daily workout, until today. I got 8 miles in and thought to myself why bother anymore. It's just not challenging and it's just not fun with this physics model - this isn't really driving. Race cars just go where you point them and road cars are just simplified drift cars.

I used to defend GTS as a legitimate driving simulator and while a tad easier than PC2 and AC it held it's own, but I cannot do that anymore. Physics model 2 (we're now on number 4) was by far and away the best model as it would punish you if you screwed up. Since then it seems that PD has dumbed it down to the lowest common denominator, and it seems that they are pandering to the lazy gamer who is always complaining that it's too difficult, but they can't be bothered to put in the practice time to better themselves.

I'm done with GTS for the time being, which is a shame as it is the slickest driving game out there, but with Ridge Racer physics it just doesn't cut it for me now.

 

[Groundfish]

Rawr rawr people who have lives not solely devoted to racing video games are lazy rawr rawr I quit

See ya!

Wouldn’t wanna be ya!

 

[dabz343]

No, it isn't an F1 car and the track isn't Suzuka which probably is enough for you to disregard it entirely because you've decided that the physics are no good, but that doesn't change the fact that things like the one in the picture already happen in GT Sport.

Thx for providing a picture, but who ever said moments like this doesn't happen in GTS? My original post does not challenge whether this occurs or not in GTS--really, go read my post. To restate my original post--because some in this forum like to hijack others' words into an imaginary realm--I think the sensation of GTS' physics at this crucial moment is doughy and moving away from reality in 1.39. Think and imagine what the driver is feeling at this moment, and ask yourself--how effectively are these sensations translated in GTS? I know my point is a little nuanced, but try to follow my line and see if I'm heading in a credible direction before you offer your critique that is neither here nor there.

Why are some having such issues with comprehension? You have the right to disagree with my views, and I too as well. But are we able to show some sportsmanship by refraining from tactics that distort comments maliciously? Honestly, some of you are worse than gossip girls.

I understand your frustration, but as someone explained earlier in the thread, I think because they are Japanese, they will want to figure out things for themselves, regardless of the time it takes or the number of incorrect paths that are taken to go forwards.

I hear you, and the cultural lens does provide some insights as to why PD is such a hermit...but...blanket statement that have been made about Japanese culture from individuals in this forum is also part of the problem IMO. Without getting too lengthy, think about what it takes to have a productive dialogue...now, imagine if I started my engagement with you through the premise that you are a close-minded Japanese? If you want someone to listen, then do yourself a favor and approach others in the same manner.

Like I said before, I don't blame PD for not engaging actively in this forum--mainly because of the level of discourse that exists. But I'm trying to change that, starting with calling out those that need to disappear.

Overall I see good points and bad points to both sides but in reality on one hand PD is doing something that is neither totally arcade or totally hardcore and sales numbers I think have then doing pretty well straddling the fence as compared to the games that do lean more hardcore on the realistics.

Agree, this is simple math for PD. But where it gets a little more complicated is--the FIA and eSports. Unfortunately, if you are truly assessing the numbers and the potential success of eSports--you have to be mindful of how to acquire participation from the broader Motorsports community that already exists. These folks hold vast marketing potential and what they thirst for--and pay for--is NOT ARCADE. This isn't theoretical physics, it isn't calculus, it's basic arithmetic.

If PD aspires to be THE eSports franchise, then it needs to have a serious and credible approach to enticing new fans to join.

I find it quite funny, that those who defend 1:38 physics, also say that its realistic to use shiftlock to help car turn in corners.
Like mentioned in d perell video.
Smashing down gears so engine locks rear wheels, its basically the same as handbrake use.

Realism is important, I've been saying this multiple times...and I agree with you that any dimension of PD's physics that just brushes aside real world physics should be called out by this community. Design a game that rewards driver talent PD and get rid of features like countersteer assist--like wtf is that all about?

To those that say, "well, aids help increase participation from all skill levels", yes I agree...but only to a point...grossly accommodating the unskilled also has an effect of driving away top-talent that may be needed to shine as an eSports leader. PD could achieve a delicate balance, but I'm not sure if they understand the concept of diminishing return...and to be fair, this cuts both ways.

 

[IncredibleMind]

Assetto Competizione is also a PC based title and those "realistic/ natural surfaces" also eat up more resources. You will not play this game with the eye candy on a 300.00 priced new PC as you can play GTS on a new 300.00 PS4

These are the "recommended computer specs" as given by the games studio Kunos.

• Requires a 64-bit processor and operating system
  
• OS: Windows 10 64-bit
  
• Processor: Intel Core i5-8600K or AMD Ryzen 5 2600X
  
• Memory: 16 GB RAM
  
• Graphics: GeForce GTX 1070 8 GB, Radeon RX 580 8GB
  
• DirectX: Version 11
  
• Storage: 50 GB available space
  
• Sound Card: Integrated

Sort of hard to compare features be implemented on a PS4 spec based game to the latest release of a PC based game using the above recommended platform specifications.

I do have the new ACC Competizone game and it does look very nice, the tracks are nice and the weather is well implemented.
I have not spent ample time with the title yet to go further into an opinion of the game.

But to be honest and I knew this before I bought the game with the limited 1 series cars and tracks this game will probably not maintain a several year play-ability lifespan that a title like GTS is able to do.

Thanks for the reply. However, I disagree with this hypothesis. AC nails this basic feature even on the PS4. This is not about resources, it is clearly an oversight by the developers. You can even go to Forza for a good implementation.

It is mystifying to me that we are arguing about a physics model when PD can’t even model a road properly to display it’s physics. There is simply no road on the planet that is as smooth as what you get in GT Sport. They can’t be serious.

 

[VBR]

The 1.39 physics poll results are the most diverse & divisive so far.


1.32 physics poll results...

1.23 physics poll results...

 

[iFerrari]

I think that most people that say that physics are better are just saying so because since last patch they got faster, just a personal feeling.

 

[IncredibleMind]

GT Sport is actually more realistic in this regard because it’s accounting for the vestibular system.

Get in your car and drive down the street and you will clearly feel and see that the idea of a vestibular system being accounted for is in the realm of believing Greek mythology is real.

I want us as a community to scream at PD the same way we did when they were giving us those BS sounds. If we act as apologists they will have no incentive.

 

[Slapped]

Rawr rawr people who have lives not solely devoted to racing video games are lazy rawr rawr I quit

See ya!

Wouldn’t wanna be ya!

Don't want to be you either, mate. How sad are you?

 

[breeminator]

I respect your experienced angle. However, I do not ever recall playing any racer that had tracks as consistently smooth as GT Sport. This certainly doesn’t happen in a real car.

In Forza Motorsport 7, it models some of the surface roughness at Sebring, for example, where it's very noticeable on the final bend, which is known for roughness in real life. However, I hate it, because you can't see the surface with the clarity that you can in real life, so there is no way to see which spots are rough or smooth. So you have to learn it by driving it, seeing the loss of traction, and memorising a mental map of the surface. To me, that is nothing like driving in real life. So I like the decision in GTS to not model the surface beyond the detail with which it can be displayed on screen.

 

[super_gt]

I tried today update 1.39 for two hours with BMW M4 Coupe 2014 on the Nordschleife with all AIDS and ABS off, wheel T300, T3PA Pro pedals. The stock settings are far from my taste but unlike previous games in this the suspension settings work and you can tune the car to suit your taste. I like a lot more the GTS BMW M4 Coupe with my settings than Assetto Corsa version of the BMW M4 Coupe, in this game (Assetto Corsa) no matter what settings you make the car (BMW M4 Coupe) feels dead and this includes putting tires with greater grip only in the front.

 

[IncredibleMind]

I will supply this info for anyone that’s curious as to why I’m going down a different tangent than others in this thread. I ONLY game on a PS4 and have zero interest in Forza.
I actually have ZERO PLANS of ever buying AC.

I purchased GT Sport at launch and remember clearly that the roads were freshly paved tarmac and I was confused to the point of.....well I put the game down. It was a joke to me. I was like, what planet are these people on that every single track has freshly paved tarmac with absolutely zero wear and tear?

I would check in regularly after updates and lemme tell you guys.....GTS HAS COME A LONG WAY SINCE LAUNCH. I even observe wear and tear on the roads and even slight undulations on certain tracks. Nevertheless it’s still far from realistic or close to other racers.

If you look at the AC video you can observe a slight shift of the cockpit when the car accelerates or decelerates. Simple things like this would go a long way in improving GT and unlike others who believe so, I don’t think this is going to affect the Sim aspects of GTS whatsoever.

The sim aspect is actually a digital representation of reality and we are not in actual cars so we are downplaying the effects of G Forces. From my observation AC is doing as good of a job as any by adding in visual effects to compensate for this.

I apologize if I offend anyone but I just want the game to be better than it is. It’s good but it could be GREAT!

I tried today update 1.39 for two hours with BMW M4 Coupe 2014 on the Nordschleife with all AIDS and ABS off, wheel T300, T3PA Pro pedals. The stock settings are far from my taste but unlike previous games in this the suspension settings work and you can tune the car to suit your taste. I like a lot more the GTS BMW M4 Coupe with my settings than Assetto Corsa version of the BMW M4 Coupe, in this game no matter what settings you make the car feels dead and this includes putting tires with greater grip only in the front.

The same way they stole Forza’s sound guy, they need to kidnap the guy(s) who did AC’s physics. GT Sport is the most beautiful racing game ever made but it’s lacking some basic and key components that would make it King.

ONLY hardcore racing people (even if it numbers into the millions) play GT so they should stop compromising their physics for accessibility imo. I think the GT fan base would be ecstatic if GT completely nullified the PC sims....and it easily could with a few different design choices.

The people who are interested in extreme accessibility are playing arcade racers or Forza with all assists on.

 

[Pearl Jam]

Let’s take an overall look here...Which game is best overall for driving and racing on ps4?

Driveclub

 

[mirial]

I hear you, and the cultural lens does provide some insights as to why PD is such a hermit...but...blanket statement that have been made about Japanese culture from individuals in this forum is also part of the problem IMO. Without getting too lengthy, think about what it takes to have a productive dialogue...now, imagine if I started my engagement with you through the premise that you are a close-minded Japanese? If you want someone to listen, then do yourself a favor and approach others in the same manner.

What would you suggest to have a productive dialogue? I have ideas; let people vote via log-in and PD may get a completely different picture of what the fans want which then make it a helluva lot easier for them to make the necessary structural changes.

I'd just like them to split Sport mode into 3, 4 or even 5 levels so that everyone is satisfied, and moving on to the next level for anybody is optional instead of lumping everyone together at the expense of quality. If you think about it, driving to a high level takes years, and common sense tells you that shortcutting the whole process by making something accessible won't work. Splitting it into levels will give beginners much more time to distil everything and give them the option of what level to take it to. PD are giving themselves an impossible task "making driving for all". Imagine how piano music would disintegrate if Steinway started making cheap pianos with assists under the slogan "Classical music is for all".

 

[VFOURMAX1]

However, I disagree with this hypothesis. AC nails this basic feature even on the PS4.

If you compare the graphics package of AC on the PS4 to the graphics package of GTS on the same platform then of the two AC has a certain cartoonish overall look compared to the finished product that GTS offers visually.

GT Sport is the most beautiful racing game ever made but it’s lacking some basic and key components that would make it King.

And you answered yourself as GTS spent its resources in a visually appearing way while AC spent its resources more on the physics and track modeling or surface detail feel at the expense of looking good.

Does not make either title doing it wrong but both studios have the same amount of system resources to work with and utilized those resources doing different things with different results as the end product.

ONLY hardcore racing people (even if it numbers into the millions) play GT so they should stop compromising their physics for accessibility imo.

I am going to disagree with this statement totally, you go on to most any online forum besides this one dealing with Sim racing and GTS is not even mentioned as a serious racing title.

It is actually put into the same category as Forza from what I can tell.

Actually iracing, AC and rfactor and raceroom and even F1 seem to be the titles considered more as sims rather than games.

I really like GTS for what it is but again trying to make the game be more than that at this point and with PD having a history of graphics over physics I cannot realistically call it a sim, rather it is a really good racing Game.

 

[dabz343]

What would you suggest to have a productive dialogue? I have ideas; let people vote via log-in and PD may get a completely different picture of what the fans want which then make it a helluva lot easier for them to make the necessary structural changes.

This is an interesting idea worth prototyping...first, how might we get PD to think of this as THEIR idea so that they don't lose face?

 

[IncredibleMind]

If you compare the graphics package of AC on the PS4 to the graphics package of GTS on the same platform then of the two AC has a certain cartoonish overall look compared to the finished product that GTS offers visually.


And you answered yourself as GTS spent its resources in a visually appearing way while AC spent its resources more on the physics and track modeling or surface detail feel at the expense of looking good.

Does not make either title doing it wrong but both studios have the same amount of system resources to work with and utilized those resources doing different things with different results as the end product.

I am going to disagree with this statement totally, you go on to most any online forum besides this one dealing with Sim racing and GTS is not even mentioned as a serious racing title.

It is actually put into the same category as Forza from what I can tell.

Actually iracing, AC and rfactor and raceroom and even F1 seem to be the titles considered more as sims rather than games.

I really like GTS for what it is but again trying to make the game be more than that at this point and with PD having a history of graphics over physics I cannot realistically call it a sim, rather it is a really good racing Game.

I disagree wholeheartedly with your sentimentality concerning GTS. If what you suggest is correct we wouldn’t have Forza being as visually appealing as it is while having proper road surfacing...or at least what translates through the controller/wheel as what feels/appears to be.

In fact, I’m being very clear here....PD may have the same system resources but I can assure you they have more man power /financial resources than the creators of AC.

As for what I was speaking on about the accessibility....I again disagree with you 100%. The entire appeal of GT has always been that it is the so-called Ultimate Driving SIMULATOR and people enter this title under that assumption.

If they were in it for a casual thrill there are FAR more appealing titles from Need for Speed to Forza with assists to Drive Club.

Someone (US) needs to get PD back in alignment with THEIR own claims. This is unacceptable and I don’t care how “pretty” the game is.

 

[TetsuKobura]

Changed my vote from neither better or worse to worse. I actually might stop playing for a while if they don't make some adjustment.

 

[mirial]

This is an interesting idea worth prototyping...first, how might we get PD to think of this as THEIR idea so that they don't lose face?

Do you know what, I'm tired of wasting time and energy fighting and arguing about the whole thing because from where I stand, the whole game with it's communication and direction are very nebulous. If they change it where I can enjoy more exciting competitive races, then great, but if we still get the status quo, I shall probably just pack in the sim racing and go back to doing RC cars.