Potato...

[Knukel]

But keep thinking all cars try to kill you at the track, you have that right

I think the problem with GTS and past GT's is that the cars wont penaltise (or kill) you for minor mistakes, overdriving or for driving like an idiot.

About the linked videos: i quess i watch them differently from Assetto Corsa perspective... Tire grip doesn't work the same way there; GT-class cars are super planted to the ground and are 'easier' to drive near the limit, but once you break the traction at higher speeds you are often just a passenger === While in GTS you end up in smooth controllable slide.., in fact you can still hit e-brake and recover with ease. Sure, it's possible to drive the way seen in the video and obviously is the fastest way, but you can also ignore the realism and start sliding around in a LMP car without greater effort or risk

 

[Magog]

PD has had problems with cars doing wheelies before. The Suzuki Escudo in GT2 and GT3 for instance. I remember when bobkart on GT3Times used to delete wheelie times on Test Course from the database almost every day.

You had to set the front downforce to minimum and the rear to maximum. It should and would have flipped the car irl with that setup but because the physics engine didn't allow for it you got wheelies. Drag race cars have extra "training wheels" behind the car to help stop that exact scenario.

 

[sdi_03]

I think the problem with GTS and past GT's is that the cars wont penaltise (or kill) you for minor mistakes or overdriving.

About the videos you are posting: i quess i watch them differently from Assetto Corsa perspective... The grip is not the same there; GT-class cars are super planted to the ground, but once you break the traction at higher speeds you are often just a passenger... While in GTS you end up in smooth controllable slide; in fact you can still hit e-brake and recover with ease.

Yep, I think that the lack of fear is problem in all sims. I think that's one of the reason developers make cars harder to drive.
With real life grip and balance, you could do hell of a fast lap times, because no fear of death would slow you down.
Then somebody would complain, that its not real to go that fast.
I do like the AC physics, and these new GTS physics.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I think the problem with GTS and past GT's is that the cars wont penaltise (or kill) you for minor mistakes, overdriving or for driving like an idiot.

You clearly weren't a fan of the Yellowbird.

 

[Knukel]

Yep, I think that the lack of fear is problem in all sims. I think that's one of the reason developers make cars harder to drive.
With real life grip and balance, you could do hell of a fast lap times, because no fear of death would slow you down.

I don't know if i meant it like that, but sure there's the fear factor irl... But does it always apply to all cars? How to tell if a professional driver is driving on it's own (self preservation) or at the car's limits? In a low powered Cup car? <- I meant the risk of ruining your race with minor driving error regardless of how dangerous the combo is.

Generally AC and PCars 2 have more grip, but yet it's far riskier to drive on the car's limit. The area between the limit and overdriving the car is narrower; hence the lap times remain constant and are accurate to real life, regardless of the missing fear factor.
IMO 'the lack of fear' comment is more relevant to Gran Turismo's!

You clearly weren't a fan of the Yellowbird.

Because of how easy it was to drive on CH tyres; the way you can't in real life?

P.S i edited my last comment.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Because of how easy it was to drive on CH tyres; the way you can't in real life?

So you squashed all of the character out of the Yellowbird but it's the game's fault? Violent whip back on the oversteer has been in the series for quite some time until it was drastically diminished in GT Sport. Half of that was simply due to the CSA correcting the twitchy controller input but the series overall wasn't always as subdued as it is now.

 

[Knukel]

So you squashed all of the character out of the Yellowbird but it's the game's fault?

At least then the lap times were closer to reality. Driving it on grippier tyres made it super reactive to steering inputs making the handling look like in sped up film.

Heck even Pagani Zonda R's lap record was beatable on CH tyres and the handling seem more realistic in race replay compared to racing slicks... Fortunately that's not the case anymore in GTS, but driving on the limit and/or beyond the limit is still grey area in GTS.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

At least then the lap times were closer to reality. Driving it on grippier tyres made it super reactive to steering inputs making the handling look like in sped up film.

My point is that the punishment was there if people didn't tune cars into straight rail understeer machines. A lot of people like to drive understeer cars and finding a good oversteer tune for the RUF was a hassle back in GT6 because most people don't like driving with a twitchy oversteer. I do, and the cars would throw you off of the track if you exited a corner wrong. Driving offline in single player, having that punishment of the whip back made driving the thing actually fun and you constantly drove on a razor's edge of control and tragedy during the oversteer. Now I didn't tune the cars to whip back, I'm not a masochist. I tuned them to be controllable during the oversteer which had a give and take against the stability when you would regain traction.

This reminds me, I need to play with the GR B cars to see how these new physics changed them as they are the only cars left in the series with any kind of threatening oversteer.

 

[MaxAttack]

This reminds me, I need to play with the GR B cars to see how these new physics changed them as they are the only cars left in the series with any kind of threatening oversteer.

Send the torque to the back. Sport hards. Smash handbrake and throttle. Best GT league events for winning sideways.

 

[fastone371]

If PD's intention is to alter GTS physics towards realism and offer drivers an intuitive experience, then I'm all for it. However, if PD is somehow coloring game physics--sacrificing realism--then I have no choice but to reject this direction.

So in an attempt to simplify the physics evaluations, I propose drivers focus on answering this key question with the help of this visual. Btw, evaluating the underlying game physics is very different than evaluating the handling of a particular car. Of course PD must get both right in order to achieve some convincing level of realism, but for the sake of clarity, let's keep them separated as far from each other as possible.

So here's the question--how faithfully is this moment in time translated in GTS? This is an extreme case, but my intent is to illustrate to you that this is the pivotal moment in which all the bits (lines of code) must fit together in harmony and shine (or fail).

In the real world, the sensations that are physically alive at this moment at the tires (yes, only the minute 4 patches) is the dominant force that have informed our intuition of what is REAL at the limit. So, I ask once again for all those that are evaluating the underlying physics--how faithfully is this moment in time translated in GTS?

View attachment 826029


To be fair, there is a lot going on here and the task of faithfully reproducing this moment in a PS4 game is unrealistic. So perhaps a more relevant question is, what sort of color do you prefer for your game physics? For me, my preference is not for a particular hue but for the saturation--or lack there of.

Reward drivers that have the skill to tease out speed at these moments PD. Don't oversimplify this moment so the novices feel undeservingly satisfied...

Are you speaking directly to that photo of Nico's Merc where it appears it is uncoupled in both pitch and roll? That is the exact picture that is on my home screen on my PC. So much going on in that photo, it has got to be one of the best action shots ever taken that show how much goes on with the chassis and tires, the drivers input graph would be nice to see along side of it.

 

[fastone371]

Unfortunately this is how a car behaves in real life. As long you don't have wheelspin, the car will understeer when you accelerate. No matter if you drive a FWD or RWD. If you accelerate you will get less wheelspin with a RWD car because of the weight transfer to the rear.

The above is very true but it is very easy to get the car loose on corner exit under throttle because so much of your available traction is being used laterally that when you do apply throttle you dont have much available traction for forward bite causing very slight amounts of tire slip which makes the rear start to slip or become loose at the same time the front end is sliding or pushing bringing the car closer to neutral instead of heavy understeer. It seems that now no matter how much lateral grip the rear tires are under that you always have 100% forward bite capabilities.

 

[Sander 001]

Yep, I think that the lack of fear is problem in all sims. I think that's one of the reason developers make cars harder to drive.
With real life grip and balance, you could do hell of a fast lap times, because no fear of death would slow you down.
Then somebody would complain, that its not real to go that fast.
I do like the AC physics, and these new GTS physics.

Happens way before the fear of death because damaging a €300,000 racing machine is a big black mark against a driver and those cars are fragile

 

[Pfei]

Happens way before the fear of death because damaging a €300,000 racing machine is a big black mark against a driver and those cars are fragile

I don't know about everyone else, but when I was flat out with a Ferrari 488 GTB for ten laps at Speed Vegas I was thinking about my safety and the very real fear of injury or death kept me from testing the car's true limits. The cost for wrecking the car didn't even cross my mind.

 

[splitwindow]

It seems that now no matter how much lateral grip the rear tires are under that you always have 100% forward bite capabilities.

While it does initially seem this way, after a bit of testing (100 or more laps of Seaside in various gr3's) it feels to me like the front is indeed getting bulldozed down the track, the strange part is that the rears somehow seem to know where the line the car needs to head towards is and they push you straight down it. The AMG '16 gr3 in particular really emphasized this sensation for me.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

The above is very true but it is very easy to get the car loose on corner exit under throttle because so much of your available traction is being used laterally that when you do apply throttle you dont have much available traction for forward bite causing very slight amounts of tire slip which makes the rear start to slip or become loose at the same time the front end is sliding or pushing bringing the car closer to neutral instead of heavy understeer. It seems that now no matter how much lateral grip the rear tires are under that you always have 100% forward bite capabilities.

Exactly. If I screw up the weight balance trying to trail brake, fine.. understeer me into the outside wall. That should be the penalty for botching the turn. Currently though, no matter how well balanced I make the car in the middle of the turn, I still have to wait until I'm 2/3rd of the way across the track close to the outside and then I just smash the throttle without any regard for wheel spin or oversteer.

I used to feather the throttle on exit, gradually increasing the input until it was flat out. Now I just rapidly tap the throttle on exit just to feed any speed and then just depress the R2 button flat once I'm lined up for exit. Again, it just seems weird and it removes a lot of the nuance of a clean exit from the game.

 

[Jimmy_apex]

Here is nice driver who drives a 488 GT3:



I'm quoting him from the commentary section: "I would say it is easy to drive at 95%, achievable with some practice to drive at 99%, and then the last 1-2seconds per lap takes some talent. (which i seem to lack...). the only car that i have that i would say is difficult to drive is the 599XX EVO, and i love it because of that. The P1GTR, will bite you if you arent careful. The FXXK is easy to drive (if anything too easy)"

And that's why there is no drama in the video with Chris Harris driving the Mclaren GT3. I would dream of having his skill behind the wheel, but his laptime is actually slow for a GT3 car. So yes, the car seems relatively easy to drive at 95% potential.


And here is monster of a driver (This guy is really a beast, not your average one) who can achieve to drive a 458 GT3 at 100 % potential:





Those cars are MR ones, the pinnacle of understeer at corner exit according to 1.39 physics. But I don't see understeering cars, I just see balanced ones where the driver can decide to over or understeer.
In the first video, the 488 seems really easy to drive. And it should be at 95% pace (which require lot of practice anyway).
In the second video, the 458 seems to try to kill the driver everywhere. Not because ****** setup or worn tires, just because the guy know how to extract everything from the grip.
Driving at 100% potential of this car (every cars in fact) should be hard and twitchy.
In GTSport, lot of drivers are pushing those cars at 100%, because you feel no fear playing a game, and you don't need to be fit as real race-cars drivers to hold the steering wheel, and to react to a sudden oversteer in a car running slick tires, which requires some respectable upper body strength and explosives muscles (with a DD it's another story).


I think, people who prefer 1.39 physics, and claim it's more realistic (I can understand people who prefer 1.39 physics for having more fun messing around with cars, or the closest and cleanest races in Sport Mode) have no real clue of what it is to drive a sport car on a track, let alone a GT3 car. But they prefer it anyway because everything is more controllable, making them feeling like a superman at the wheel. It's more an ego question than anything else.

What PD did with 1.39, is helping the slower driver, less experienced ones, or pads users, to have closer and cleaner races, which is a good point. But they didn't choose the right solution. The right solution would have been a traction control that allows to be as fast as TC OFF.

I hate SIM that are harder to play than real life to make it feel more "real". But with 1.39, physics isn't a good compromise for more accessibility, mainly because it's not logical anymore. And even 1.38 physics, which was pretty spot on, required some more layers of nuance at the limit, and a better management of the longitudinal grips. Maybe on PS5, the physics is certainly hardware limited ATM.

I'm not fooling myself about my driving capabilities because the NSX type R is easier to drive now, and that it must drive like that because Senna makes driving the NSX at full pace an easy task.
I already accepted long time ago that I will never be as fast as drivers like Soheil Ayari in real life, even with a full time training. My brain has limits compared to this kind of guys, or the Aliens in GTSport. Accepting that, haven't been an easy task. But I'm no longer blinded by my ego, ambitions, dreams or whatever emotional layers that distort what I experience VS reality.

Anyway, the game still enjoyable with some tweaks, now I know how to deal with the 1.39 physics.
This thread is really interesting.

 

[Groundfish]

No doubt the grass doesn’t spin a car as easily. That’s part of the update also definitely. I have a tendency to hang a few pixels of my outside rear off preparing to enter certain corners from wide, and it seems more forgiving now on those mistakes. It’s a difference that is very noticeable. Further I think they may have made some of the curbing more forgiving also, either that or its a result of the difference in dynamic pitch affecting how loaded my style has the cars suspension in those turns.

Here is a vid from Chris Harris and his 650 GT3. Also Mclaren Senna on this vid, GT3 starts on 6min.
Now does this car try to kill Chris all the time?? No, modern race cars have lots of grip and are very well balanced.
I have no idea why some of you think that harder the car is to drive, more realistic it is???
To me, physics are quite close now, is it perfect? No, but closer than last update.





I can somehow see what you are saying in this one. In my trackday/summer car, I can balance high speed corners with throttle.
It's ans RR engine layout, so bit different to drive than FR.
But, it works like this, after braking to corner I'll keep tiny amount of trailbrake to keep traction to front. After apex balance the turning with throttle, slight lift gives more turn in and slight more throttle understeer.
So steering is almost the same and use throttle to balance the car to keep max speed.
Now, if I go full throttle, car will oversteer again. Rear tyres just lose the traction under the torque.
I think this is what you are missing in the game? If yes, I feel that also.

I have found in running qual this morning that running a bit quicker and blending in more throttle into exit resulted in slight oversteer in my Chevy. That’s a car people call an understeer car in game, but tbh depends on the corner and what you do to the controls.
My 58.8 is shared in game and you can see I don’t get time by flatting the bust stop. There’s easily another .5 in my own time without trying to kamikaze the bus stop.
Running a bit over under the limit I get into a slight oversteer on exit on throttle when I push down a bit aggressively.
When I say slight I don’t mean countersteering much...Just a slight release of steering angle of a few degrees.
Many people claim being on the limit or knowing what that means but I’m not sure about that.
I can be on my limit but a better drivers limit is higher because they are able to have the car more planted. The limit is dynamic and always changing. I am unable to drive the limit in game. I can over under it but that’s about it.

In fact when running qual hot lap you end up over under around the limit.

I think the main thing tbh is testing for ones self. This game is more about skill than tuning.
Also I can make comparisons game to game since I have them all, but for me when analyzing an individual game I just try to relate to reality.

I’m loving this game more with each step in the evolution. Ps5 is going to be amazing.
People have said the cars all understeer not even true in game. What the cars do depend on the driver. I shared my last lap in game and there’s plenty of time left to get, but you can see a car everyone says understeer s oversteering slightly on aggressive exits.
This game is about driver skill!

 

[fastone371]

While it does initially seem this way, after a bit of testing (100 or more laps of Seaside in various gr3's) it feels to me like the front is indeed getting bulldozed down the track, the strange part is that the rears somehow seem to know where the line the car needs to head towards is and they push you straight down it. The AMG '16 gr3 in particular really emphasized this sensation for me.

Correct. My comments were about what generally happens in a real car vs what happens in the game currently. To make it simple I agree with many others that in 1.39 there is simply too much rear bite or that it is very, very difficult to find that neutral balance when you start picking up the throttle on corner exit. In the game it seems like you never lose lateral grip on exit anymore. I also agree with a few others in 1.38 it may have been a little too easy to spin the rear tires on exit. PD definitely had problems with the physic models 1.38 and earlier where once you started spinning rear tires from a stop it was almost impossible to get them to hook, that is also not very realistic. I suspect they were trying to fix those problems with 1.39 and probably overshot their estimations, lets hope they get it better at 1.40

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I have found in running qual this morning that running a bit quicker and blending in more throttle into exit resulted in slight oversteer in my Chevy. That’s a car people call an understeer car in game, but tbh depends on the corner and what you do to the controls.

Before the update, that's usually how I caused AWD cars to turn in, was to overlap throttle and braking through the apex. Now I drive the Cayman like that.

 

[Groundfish]

It’s difficult to drive the cars at the limit.
Even with my best efforts I only put together parts of laps really.
I like now that the game rewards and weak.
Stock bb in the gr3 the fronts lock first which is a good setup for racing.
With abs default you just don’t have complete control. Default adds help with not locking when trailing in.
Cars DO NOT universally all behave in a certain manner. It depends on driver.
I have to say at this point I just experience the cars a little differently than what’s often posted.
I would say that the game has a finer level of control available now.
I’m really trying to get outta this dang thread, but when I see people saying the cars all have a certain fault and forty minutes of qual tells me otherwise...
I dunno.
I guess carry on, but again I suggest people drive and think for themselves.

@BallPtPenTheif

See a lot of folks say to trail in all the way to apex everywhere in game or overlap throttle and brake.
Like in the speedster race on Brands Indy it was said “the only” way to balance the car was to do so.
I right foot brake. In that car I was top ten for a while and beat some very solid players and I wasn’t doing any of that or even running the same line!
For me I am finding if I am braking my best some corners I am off brake earlier some later.
My pedal switch onto throttle needs to happen when the tires are as close to limit as possible at apex.
On some corners and tracks I am back on throttle pretty good immediately after turn in.
The more I play this game and study my textbooks the more I see there’s more here than just this is what a person needs to do.
I don’t overlap pedals but on the pedals I have I have them spaced closely.
My experience of this game is that the more I learn the more rewarding it is.
To me it’s not just well a person HAS to drive only THIS way to be fast I guess...
Cheers

 

[fastone371]

It’s difficult to drive the cars at the limit.
Even with my best efforts I only put together parts of laps really.
I like now that the game rewards and weak.
Stock bb in the gr3 the fronts lock first which is a good setup for racing.
With abs default you just don’t have complete control. Default adds help with not locking when trailing in.
Cars DO NOT universally all behave in a certain manner. It depends on driver.
I have to say at this point I just experience the cars a little differently than what’s often posted.
I would say that the game has a finer level of control available now.
I’m really trying to get outta this dang thread, but when I see people saying the cars all have a certain fault and forty minutes of qual tells me otherwise...
I dunno.
I guess carry on, but again I suggest people drive and think for themselves.

I dont think anyone has claimed each and every car to be the same. The tires also make a huge difference. I suggested in an earlier post that people should share which car/cars, tires, and input method they use. I think DS4 users have a different experience than wheel users. I do think that it is acceptable to say that the cars under-steer more now than they had at 1.38

 

[dabz343]

Are you speaking directly to that photo of Nico's Merc where it appears it is uncoupled in both pitch and roll? That is the exact picture that is on my home screen on my PC. So much going on in that photo, it has got to be one of the best action shots ever taken that show how much goes on with the chassis and tires, the drivers input graph would be nice to see along side of it.

Yes, that picture represents such an important point in time for anyone interested in racing on the limit. I shared it in hopes that some would benchmark the real world sensation before assessing criticism or praise to 1.39.

Like I stated in my previous post, expecting a ps4 game to accurately simulate this is unrealistic. Therefore, it's about helping PD to understand what sort of coloring/simplification of GTS' physics this community prefers to enjoy. I recommend not catering to an arcade crowd IF you want to maintain credibility and legitimacy with the FIA as an eSports platform.

Like some have said, 1.39 should have improved the nannies novices can throw on. Instead PD has dulled the knife too severely and the evidence is pretty clear that certain vehicle dynamics are now fundamentally in question. Oddly enough, some driver actually prefer 1.39. for their own reasons--fair enough.

PD has a decision to make--realism or arcade? If this thread has exposed anything worthwhile, it is that PD now has 2 distinct fan archetypes--casual vs competitive. Perhaps they have an ingenious plan that avoids the trade-offs and builds a dynamic platform for both? Maybe,..I hope so...but from the way they handled the evolution of their physics--not to mention the timing--it is pretty clear to me that they're running their business with generous amounts of TC/ASM.

Get it together PD, the principle that the best in class always adapt and rise also applies to your industry--fail early, fail fast, fail gracefully.

 

[Groundfish]

::sigh::

Imo before telling a dev to get something together you ought to be able to get the most out of it.

It’s simply untrue that “all cars in game do X”

It depends on driver input and skill. That’s it.

 

[sdi_03]

Yes, that picture represents such an important point in time for anyone interested in racing on the limit. I shared it in hopes that some would benchmark the real world sensation before assessing criticism or praise to 1.39.

Like I stated in my previous post, expecting a ps4 game to accurately simulate this is unrealistic. Therefore, it's about helping PD to understand what sort of coloring/simplification of GTS' physics this community prefers to enjoy. I recommend not catering to an arcade crowd IF you want to maintain credibility and legitimacy with the FIA as an eSports platform.

Like some have said, 1.39 should have improved the nannies novices can throw on. Instead PD has dulled the knife too severely and the evidence is pretty clear that certain vehicle dynamics are now fundamentally in question. Oddly enough, some driver actually prefer 1.39. for their own reasons--fair enough.

PD has a decision to make--realism or arcade? If this thread has exposed anything worthwhile, it is that PD now has 2 distinct fan archetypes--casual vs competitive. Perhaps they have an ingenious plan that avoids the trade-offs and builds a dynamic platform for both? Maybe,..I hope so...but from the way they handled the evolution of their physics--not to mention the timing--it is pretty clear to me that they're running their business with generous amounts of TC/ASM.

Get it together PD, the principle that the best in class always adapt and rise also applies to your industry--fail early, fail fast, fail gracefully.

Like mile long post.
Just to clear why I think the .39 is better than previous.
The over all grip is what I have experienced in real life.
Braking is harder to get right and smaller brake inputs make more sense.
Weight transfer is better, you can control your car better with throttle.
Now the down side, what seems to be the most hated thing.
Understeer at the turn exit.
To me, all the corners that should be late apex in real life, are now like that in the game.
What is not like in real life, is the full throttle after apex. Of you keep foot planted, car will not understeer. If you late apex corners that should be driven that way.
This full throttle cornering is something I would change also.

And for calling those who like the new physics arcade racers, just not needed. Other than that, this thread has been super civiliced.
Lets keep it that way

 

[Jimmy_apex]

@ sdi_03 // Which car did you drive on track. And how hard. Have you got a video or something?

 

[sdi_03]

@ sdi_03 // Which car did you drive on track. And how hard. Have you got a video or something?

Well. Ok Ill bite. But I hope everyone else will do the same

Started with karts when I was 6y old. Had my first what you could call folkrace car when 9y.
So basicly have driven on ice and gravel since then.
First trackday car was Z32 Nissan that I built. 680hp and litle shy 800Nm toque. Had several trackdays with it.
Have driven endurance bmw 325 few days.
Competed in pro drift series 4 seasons with FD RX7
Have one few vids on tube for that, in one have slight accident



So here is the video on that one, as you can see, long time ago. From the time the people did not film all their life(meals)

Have had 911 for 9 years, been nordsleife two times.
Have posted vid of first time on nordsleife. Not pushing all the track fast on that one.





Now please, how about you??

 

[Groundfish]

The above is very true but it is very easy to get the car loose on corner exit under throttle because so much of your available traction is being used laterally that when you do apply throttle you dont have much available traction for forward bite causing very slight amounts of tire slip which makes the rear start to slip or become loose at the same time the front end is sliding or pushing bringing the car closer to neutral instead of heavy understeer. It seems that now no matter how much lateral grip the rear tires are under that you always have 100% forward bite capabilities.

That’s why I mentioned on my race b qual lap in vet this morning I got into slight oversteer on exit.
It doesn’t have 100 percent rear bite behavior, the amount of bite has changed because of the change in pitch of vehicle on accel decel.
I think it feels like that to many players because of the hours spent adapting to the excessive oversteer in the previous physics model.
Jmo
Also you have a very clear and accurate posting style. It’s good stuff.
I gotta get outta the thread again. Apologies for getting carried away it’s just hard not to when my experience of the game is so different from some other folks...
Signing off here for a while...

 

[Rotorist]

You clearly weren't a fan of the Yellowbird.

Or F40, or Stratos...

 

[WheelmanSteve]

Apologies for the wall-of-text...

Some observations, and a change of my vote (to "Both Better & Worse...") I was highly critical of the changes, and said so, but I will offer some feedback. (Logitech G29, for the record...) For perspective, I have used the Controller Sensitivity setting to fine tune the steering response on many cars- I find a lot of cars turn in very aggressively, and I am then correcting. Pre-1.39, dropping the Controller Sensitivity down to 2 or even 0 gave a more linear input and required much less correction. Personally, I was faster, and consistently so with these low sensitivity settings. Using 2 on the GR.3 Mustang was incredible...
After reading a lot of the responses to this thread, I decided to have another go. I ran a bunch of qualifying laps at DT in the Mustang, Atenza, and AMG. Using my typical Steering Sensitivity settings, I got some acceptable times, but never got into enough of a comfort zone to get on the track with other drivers. I did note more stability on acceleration, which I like- given the limited sensory suite and controller latency inherent in a screen-and-game-rocker cockpit, giving the driver a little benefit of the doubt is a plus. (Yes, I wanted to hammer it coming out of the turn. Yes, the tires were hot. No, I didn't want to do 2 360's...) I still struggled with steering input, so much so that I decided not to race, and dropped back to League for some more testing.
I returned to the Premium Sports Lounge at Lago Maggiore, and the AMG GT. The vicious lift throttle snap oversteer was still present, and I needed to understand why- the AMG is rock solid ride, and I'm generally very strong in FR's. At this point, the blame will be split. I discovered that I am guilty of early and aggressive downshifts, and when I temper that, and shift when the engine will be in the correct RPM after, things improved. I was still struggling with steering linearity, though. After a few better, but not great laps, I threw a Hail Mary and upped the Controller Sensitivity to 7. Things got better right away- no more swapping ends coming into corners. 7 was still a little twitchy, though, so I tried dialing the sensitivity back again. 5 was drivable, but still a little nervous. 3? Back to the tail stepping out in corners, even low speed ones, and even when all my downshifts were done carefully and in a straight line. Back up to 7, and everything returns to normal. I tried my "Muse", the BB512 at Goodwood, and again, things were much better. Still wild and hairy, but drivable.
So:
Better: Yes, more realistic. I need to drive the car like, well, a car. I'll take any improvement to realism and immersion I can get. I can see where I was at fault for some of the problems I was having with 1.39.
Worse: GTS and the G29 have been a rough ride, and this is a step back. I really liked the precision and stability I was getting with low sensitivity. If PD have improved the latency issues with the G29, and I just need to give it more time, fine. I'll run some more Q laps at DT tonight with CS at 7, and if it works, I'll come racing.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

@BallPtPenTheif

See a lot of folks say to trail in all the way to apex everywhere in game or overlap throttle and brake.
Like in the speedster race on Brands Indy it was said “the only” way to balance the car was to do so.
I right foot brake. In that car I was top ten for a while and beat some very solid players and I wasn’t doing any of that or even running the same line!
For me I am finding if I am braking my best some corners I am off brake earlier some later.
My pedal switch onto throttle needs to happen when the tires are as close to limit as possible at apex.
On some corners and tracks I am back on throttle pretty good immediately after turn in.
The more I play this game and study my textbooks the more I see there’s more here than just this is what a person needs to do.
I don’t overlap pedals but on the pedals I have I have them spaced closely.
My experience of this game is that the more I learn the more rewarding it is.
To me it’s not just well a person HAS to drive only THIS way to be fast I guess...
Cheers

There's multiple ways to skin a cat (I hate that saying, I love cats) and though I'm sure there's more nuance than what I'm about to say, generally... this debate appears to come down to two differing driving styles. There are people who love understeer and there are people who love oversteer. Understeer drivers want a stable predictable car that turns the entire track into a series of consecutive drag strips. Oversteer drivers want a car that handles fluidly on the limits of control on every corner.

I want a game that allows for all real world driving styles. The subdued throttle on exit and excessive front wheel bite are both issues that make oversteer driving less fun in this game. Otherwise, I like the 1.39 update and corner entry has drastically improved from it. But I totally dislike the lack of fidelity in the torque of the car on exit and how it wants to edge to the outside like a jet ski even if the car is balanced and halfway across the track on it's exit line.