Pre-release GT5:Prologue Thread Firmware 2.17 mandatory for GT5:P? (and Pictures)

[McLaren]

Gran Turismo 5: Prologue is not a demo. If you've got folks from Sony saying it's a game, not a demo, it's a game, not a demo. Kapeesh?

 

[H3avyM3tal]

Narrow minded thinking ftl... or is it refusal to understand? I wonder...

 

[RACECAR]

Come on people, please stop arguing over the price. There is no point in arguing over what hasn't been revealed or comfirmed yet.

 

[McLaren]

Narrow minded thinking ftl... or is it refusal to understand? I wonder...

Then show me where GT5P is a demo. Because Sony says otherwise.

 

[Dave A]

It's a demo because it's a demonstration of what to expect in GT5, simple as. Regardless of what Sony try to market it as. I'm pretty sure that if this was Microsoft trying to launch a Forza 3 prologue and claiming it was not a demo the tides of the debate would be the other way round. For clairification, I do not think GT5 will be free, regarding it's value for money to the consumer, that's not sometihng I want to get into, even if we did know the price. But as many features as GT5 has, it's still just an elaborate demonstration of what GT5 will be like.

A demo doesn't have to be 3 cars, 1 track and a 60 second time limit.

 

[GangsTaGT]

free is good, but if it's not free, who cares, i'd still get it. I dont see why ppl complain about GT5P being free.

anyway, is the drift mode from GTHD coming back?

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Come on people, please stop arguing over the price. There is no point in arguing over what hasn't been revealed or comfirmed yet.

True, but just to be clear most aren't arguing over the price, just making sure the known facts are understood and how they apply to comments being made that GT5 is only a demo and should be free.

No worries though, there isn't anything left to say that hasn't been said already. I'll just let the past posts speak loudly for themselves.

 

[Dave A]

I'll pay a reasonable ammount for GT5 sure, not a full price game ammount simply because in Gran Turismo terms, it's not a full game, in much the same way GT:Concept wasn't. I paid £20 for that, that was half a new priced game could cost. I'd pay £20 for GT5 on a disk, not as a download. So if it cost the same for both, I'd buy it on hard copy. If the download cost £10 and the disk cost £20, I'd download it, unless ofcourse, the damage rumour is true and the BD copies have that then I'd mull it over a bit and probably buy the BD, but I don't think thoes rumours are true. Ofcourse, these are just examples of how pricing would affect my purchase.

As for the drift mode, it would appear it's coming back because it was an option in the race screen during Kaz's demonstration.

 

[Ske]

free is good, but if it's not free, who cares, i'd still get it.

Ditto.

 

[Jedi2016]

Gran Turismo 5: Prologue is not a demo. If you've got folks from Sony saying it's a game, not a demo, it's a game, not a demo. Kapeesh?

What I don't get (and don't take this personally, McLaren, I picked your post at randome because I wanted to add a note to this "game or demo" argument.. hehe).

Anyway... What I don't get is why everyone is being so black and white about this. "Either it's a demo or it's a game." Fact is, it's neither... it's somewhere in between. More than a demo, less than a game. And to my knowledge, it's the ONLY game/demo/whatever that falls into that category, with the exception of it's own predecessor, GT4P. So quit trying to lump it into one group or another, because it doesn't fit either one.

And it will be priced accordingly... I don't expect to pay full game-price for it, but I DO expect to pay for it.

 

[gtvault]

Thanks everyone for reminding me why I don't frequent these forums. I logged in today to see if anyone may have followed up on my last post, but in reading 30+ posts since I see mostly incessant infighting... and none of it matters as the arguments center either on semantics or on things that no one here has any control over whatsoever.

 

[Dave A]

I don't see fighting I see debating, no ones hurled any abuse, they've simply stated their views. But just because me, you or anyone else has no control over something, that doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to talk about it, debate it, agree with it, dissagree with it or state your opinion otherwise.

 

[MasterGT]

Your assuming the fault lies with PD and not with the authors of the articles.

Of course it's SONY/PD's fault! Who else? The media's? No way! They are just doing what the media has always done, but it is entirely up to SONY to make sure this happens the least amount possible, by using crystal clear communications with everyone, including us. The fault lies within, not without.

There are probably numerous inaccuracies littered within their (IGN, GS etc) articles about other games. It's just we (this forum) happen to follow this particular game's progress much more closely - and therefore jump on and over analyse any little scrap of information.

We only do it as much as PD let's it happen. They allow the media in the door, so if any inaccuracies or confusion happens, it starts at the top, not further down the chain. We only see the end result, since we weren't there to make our own (wrong) conclusions. Everyone knows the media is not perfect and they get things wrong, so PD must learn not to allow stories to become a problem. (I don't know about others, but I call confusion a problem.) They must do things differently than what they have done for the past ten years, actually manipulating the media, as I mentioned above and elsewhere. They need to control things much better than they have, because the status quo is just not good enough.

There is no excuse for the present state of things.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[MGR]

Of course it's SONY/PD's fault! Who else? The media's? No way! They are just doing what the media has always done, but it is entirely up to SONY to make sure this happens the least amount possible, by using crystal clear communications with everyone, including us. The fault lies within, not without.


We only do it as much as PD let's it happen. They allow the media in the door, so if any inaccuracies or confusion happens, it starts at the top, not further down the chain. We only see the end result, since we weren't there to make our own (wrong) conclusions. Everyone knows the media is not perfect and they get things wrong, so PD must learn not to allow stories to become a problem. (I don't know about others, but I call confusion a problem.) They must do things differently than what they have done for the past ten years, actually manipulating the media, as I mentioned above and elsewhere. They need to control things much better than they have, because the status quo is just not good enough.

There is no excuse for the present state of things.

Cheers,

MasterGT

The official press release is on the first page of this thread. If gaming news websites want to disregard this information with unsubstantiaed claims then that's up to them.

IGN quoted:
"A SCEE spokesperson stressed to us that while Prologue is heading to PSN, it won't be free like the previously released Gran Turismo demo and, what's more, the downloadable game doesn't include damage modelling - unlike the Blu-ray version."

Who is this 'spokesperson'? Name? Position? (possibly the SCEE janitor? How do we know?)

According to GS
"Reeves confirmed that Gran Turismo 5 would be released in 2008, while franchise creator Kazunori Yamauchi told attendees that the downloadable prequel appetizer to his next full offering--Gran Turismo 5 Prologue--would be available for free."

Would be or should be available in 2008? One letter make a huge difference.

There's a few Q&A session videos from GC2007 with Kazunori floating around the web. In not one of them does he claim GT5 will be free. Apparently (according to GS) he told 'attendees' that GT5 download would be free. Where are these other attendees to back up the GS statement?

If it can't be backed up by an offical press release, video or audio recording then it's just speculation. How much weight you personally put on the credibility of a certain website/article author is up to you.

But you can't really call "liar, liar pants on fire" at PD or the gaming news websites without something to back up it up.

 

[MasterGT]

The official press release is on the first page of this thread. If gaming news websites want to disregard this information with unsubstantiaed claims then that's up to them.

The official release came out after the mess that was caused during the Leipzig show. This doesn't take into account what happens each time a new independent interview with Kaz occurs nor when another PD office walk-through happens. We don't get the official word after each of those.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[Mr P510]

And this is EXACTLY why Steve Jobs sacks anyone at Apple whos found to spread false rumors.

 

[MasterGT]

And since nearly everyone wants to interview Kaz, where does that leave SONY?
The buck has to stop somewhere.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[MGR]

The official release came out after the mess that was caused during the Leipzig show. This doesn't take into account what happens each time a new independent interview with Kaz occurs nor when another PD office walk-through happens. We don't get the official word after each of those.

Cheers,

MasterGT

What mess? The official press release was 28th August. The next day (29th) IGN posts that the Blu-Ray version will include damage and GS posts GT5 download will be free.

http://au.ps3.ign.com/articles/816/816592p1.html
http://au.gamespot.com/news/6177842.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;more;8

You can't expect Sony/PD to issue an official press release every single time an article's author gets their facts wrong.

 

[MasterGT]

Here is just one recent example of the "mess":

On August 22, during their presentation, they mention GT5 will have 5 tracks, but recent posts here still speculate about more tracks, or variations of tracks. The official number of cars is still "over 40", as far as I know, but I've seen speculation of "50" cars, and even more, on some web sites. This should not happen.

Four days later, they make a press release? Hmmm... that leaves the media lots of time to think up rumours and twist things around to fit their idea of a good article.

We should not be speculating. We should have clear facts by now. They either know how many tracks or cars there will be or they don't. If they don't, then no number should even be mentioned, by anybody, until they do know the exact number.

All SONY has to do is shut Kazunori up and tell any media people that if they get something wrong, they will never get a second chance. There will be no slip ups after that, not without someone at least paying with consequences.

I'd rather have one dry, official news release a month than having 20 individual interviews with Kaz and then have to deal with poor reliability. It's not our job to figure things out; it's PD's responsibility to make sure they communicate clearly and precisely, all of the time.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[MGR]

Here is just one recent example of the "mess":

On August 22, during their presentation, they mention GT5 will have 5 tracks, but recent posts here still speculate about more tracks, or variations of tracks. The official number of cars is still "over 40", as far as I know, but I've seen speculation of "50" cars, and even more, on some web sites. This should not happen.

The speculation of 50 cars has been around for a while now. He's probably been asked the "how many cars in prologue" question a thousand times in the last few months. He's probably just said "around 50 cars". What else is he supposed to say?

"Don't know"
"No comment"
"To be advised"

"How many tracks Kaz?"

"Don't know"
"No comment"
"To be advised"

Damage modelling seem to be a most sought after feature to be included in the GT series. Can we expect to see it in upcoming GT iterations?

"Don't know"
"No comment"
"To be advised"

Four days later, they make a press release? Hmmm... that leaves the media lots of time to think up rumours and twist things around to fit their idea of a good article.

How is that the fault of Sony or PD?

Man parks his car (legally) on the side of the road. Another driver loses control of their own car and slams into the parked car. Therefore it's the parked car driver's fault?

We should not be speculating. We should have clear facts by now. They either know how many tracks or cars there will be or they don't. If they don't, then no number should even be mentioned, by anybody, until they do know the exact number.

They have a 'firm' release date now of October - to coincide with the Tokya Motor Show (late October). They're probably still adding cars (and possibly tracks) right up till the release date. Therefore can't give a definite firm number.

All SONY has to do is shut Kazunori up and tell any media people that if they get something wrong, they will never get a second chance. There will be no slip ups after that, not without someone at least paying with consequences.

Ahh come on dude. This is the real world. You think Sony are going to miss out on that PR coverage from the likes of IGN or GS?

Somehow I don't think Sony and PD are saying "Yay!, they've misrepresented our game again!". If the journo's could get their facts right we wouldn't need press releases.

I'd rather have one dry, official news release a month than having 20 individual interviews with Kaz and then have to deal with poor reliability. It's not our job to figure things out; it's PD's responsibility to make sure they communicate clearly and precisely, all of the time.

But then there'd be no nice surprises. Boring!

If you wanted error-free PR statements they'd only release one - once the game has gone 'gold'.

Unless it comes from an official PR statement or audio/video recording from Kaz then everything else can be pretty much considered speculation. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Speculating is half the fun.

 

[Dave A]

Of course it's SONY/PD's fault! Who else? The media's? No way! They are just doing what the media has always done, but it is entirely up to SONY to make sure this happens the least amount possible, by using crystal clear communications with everyone, including us. The fault lies within, not without.

Oh come one, it's not like PD are the only company who like to drip feed information to the fans. If PD just came out said "this is what will be in GT5" there would be nothing to report for the months up to it's release and news would dry up. As a result of that, so would a large portion of public anticipation.

We only do it as much as PD let's it happen. They allow the media in the door, so if any inaccuracies or confusion happens, it starts at the top, not further down the chain.

And our survey say's XXXX. If I tell someone something, and then that soeone tell's it to other people differently, who is it my fault? The only way it could begin to b my fault is if I was being deliberately vauge, and attempting to confuse the guy. I don't see PD attempting to confuse people here. Infact, if you read what Kaz and the official statments have said, there should be very little confusion at all.

The official press release is on the first page of this thread. If gaming news websites want to disregard this information with unsubstantiaed claims then that's up to them.

Exactley, and despite Kaz telling us what the deal is about damage, and the press releases mentioning exactley how many tracks are planned for GT5, media stories continue to use false information that suggests otherwise.

IGN quoted:
"A SCEE spokesperson stressed to us that while Prologue is heading to PSN, it won't be free like the previously released Gran Turismo demo and, what's more, the downloadable game doesn't include damage modelling - unlike the Blu-ray version."

Notice how the information from IGN isn't quoted. They do not quote exactley what this SCEE spokesperson said. Any unquoted information like that can pretty much be ignored. If it's quoted, then it's a lot more credible. It's upto you and I to determine how much of what the media says is specualtion from that and what is based on fact. It's not hard to read it poperly and come to the right conslusions.

Who is this 'spokesperson'? Name? Position? (possibly the SCEE janitor? How do we know?)

We don't even know what this spokesperson said, because he wasn't quoted.

According to GS
"Reeves confirmed that Gran Turismo 5 would be released in 2008, while franchise creator Kazunori Yamauchi told attendees that the downloadable prequel appetizer to his next full offering--Gran Turismo 5 Prologue--would be available for free."

Would be or should be available in 2008? One letter make a huge difference.

Knowing PD's release date problems with GT4 you could be sceptical about this release date. But this information ties in with what's come form PD.

There's a few Q&A session videos from GC2007 with Kazunori floating around the web. In not one of them does he claim GT5 will be free.

Exactley, it isn't Kaz's faul if someone who isn't affiliated with PD decides to spread a rumour that it will be free. In the interview on video I can't recall him mentioning it being free either. Only talk of prices I've heared come from PD is that the pricing is TBC.

Apparently (according to GS) he told 'attendees' that GT5 download would be free. Where are these other attendees to back up the GS statement?

Which was again, unquoted information. This comes from the "I know a guy who knows a guy who heared him say this..." effect. If the media is using this information as a genuine source then it's shoddy work by them. Kaz can't do more han he has, PD can't do more than they have. All the information we need is out there, pricing TBC, damage, not included at launch possibly in the future as a download but no promises. Tracks, 5 with variations of each track. Cars around 40, so that could be 45-50, they're just saying around 40 for now.

If it can't be backed up by an offical press release, video or audio recording then it's just speculation. How much weight you personally put on the credibility of a certain website/article author is up to you.

Spot on.

The official release came out after the mess that was caused during the Leipzig show.

So what should PD do, read the press release before the show because that would make no sense what-so-ever. Press releases are always released after.

This doesn't take into account what happens each time a new independent interview with Kaz occurs nor when another PD office walk-through happens. We don't get the official word after each of those.

And why should we? We occasionaly get a bit of an interview or a picture of a new car we haven't seen before. Press releases arn't done for everything. I'd love to know what company would do that. In fact, I haven't seen much in the way of fals information come from any of the proper interviews, or the office visits PD have from time to time. The false information comes when information is released to masses of people at the same time. We all got the same information, some people just read thier own ideas into it, others made false claims that someone was told something different. Nothing that isn't fact or wasn't actually said, comes quoted.

 

[Mr P510]

The hard facts on the game need to be revieled at TGS next month or Sony need to seriously look at how they handle their PR.

 

[Dave A]

As already posted by Amar, this is the official info and as you can see, it's pretty clear to work out what Sony have and haven't said.

28/08/2007 19:02
Start your engines for Gran Turismo™5 Prologue

New prequel an early taste of Gran Turismo 5 for PLAYSTATION®3

- A taste of Gran Turismo 5 for PLAYSTATION®3 is here at the end of this year
- Up to 16-player online racing on PLAYSTATION®Network - a Gran Turismo first!
- Over 40 dream cars, High Definition graphics, new physics engine… and a TV channel

The real driving simulator that’s sold 50 million units is back: Sony Computer Entertainment Europe (SCEE) and Polyphony Digital are pleased to announce Gran Turismo™5 Prologue, a prequel title showcasing the forthcoming Gran Turismo™5 for PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3&#8482 – available both on Blu-ray disc and as a download from PLAYSTATION®Network (PSN) at the end of this year. Gran Turismo on PlayStation is one of the most successful global gaming franchises of the last ten years – renowned for its realism, quality of design and in-car physics technology – now, with the power of PS3™ behind it, it’s going to be unstoppable.

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue features over 40 stunning cars – including vehicles by Lotus, Mitsubishi, Nissan and Ferrari for you to race on seriously realistic, real-life tracks: including the Eiger Nordwand, the London City Track and Suzuka – all rendered in incredible High Definition graphics. There’s also all-new driving physics for the most lifelike driving experience ever and new, improved opponent artificial intelligence for the toughest race challenge yet.

But that’s not all – for the first time ever in the history of Gran Turismo, you’ll now be able to race online. Up to 16 players will be able to go head-to-head on some of the world’s best racetracks on PLAYSTATION®Network™ – all you need to get racing is a broadband connection and PS3™. Once you’re up and revving, Global Online Rankings and the My Garage homepage feature will leave the world in no doubt as to just who is the best at Gran Turismo.

And then there’s the Online Dealership, providing a wealth of information on cars and manufacturers and also Gran Turismo™ TV – a dedicated online channel available exclusively from PSN and packed with some of the greatest content that Motorsport, car manufacturers and TV has to offer.

Key Features:

- The first ever Gran Turismo title with online racing: drive online against up to 16 other Gran Turismo aces
- Race a total of over 40 stunning, high-performance cars
- Race on seriously realistic, real life tracks including the Eiger Nordwand, the London City Track and Suzuka – then race them in reverse and with alternative routes
- All-new physics engine means true next-generation vehicle handling
- All-new and improved opponent AI for a nail-biting race experience
- Access to Gran Turismo TV : a world of great motoring TV programming online
- Online Dealership: Access to car manufacturers online
- My Garage - a personalised homepage feature with friends, chat and personal game records
- Quick Tune facility allows you to adjust power, tyres, suspension and more
- All in stunning High Definition at 1080p (race: 1080p-60fps, replay: 1080p-30fps)
- Gran Turismo 5 – the full title – launches in 2008. Until then, there’s enough ultra-realistic, high-speed racing in Gran Turismo 5 Prologue on PS3™ to keep your accelerator firmly to the floor for the rest of the year.

There's plenty of hard facts in there.

What we're likely to get at the TGS is final confirmation of the cars, the final two tracks and the pricing.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

MasterGT,

You really seem to be getting seriously bent out of shape by what you read in the media about GT5 & GT5, and while you may have legitimate reasons to be upset, you have to also remember they are in the business to get traffic to their sites, read their magazines/papers, and watch their shows.

Frankly if PD had to constantly update us with what's really going on that means the possibility of detracting them from actual work, and to be fair, just as with all game developers, they don’t want to reveal everything about their games. Not only does that help their competitors, but if things change they don't want to have to deal with a lot of overzealous fans freaking out over a change in the game that they personally don't understand or like.

If all these false articles and speculation are driving you crazy I'd suggest stop reading so many different sources reporting on GT5 and GT5. I know if I did I suppose my head would explode from all the contradictory information. Sometimes it's best to ignore a lot of it, as most sites the signal to noise level is so bad any way it's not really worth the effort.

 

[MasterGT]

I'm not getting all bent out of shape, but I do feel there is a right way and a wrong way here. Other companies don't have these problems, at least mature ones don't for long, and there are things that PD can do to stop it. I don't expect that to happen, though, but that doesn't mean improvements can't be made, either.

Besides being more strict, one thing that can be done, mentioned above, is to time the public release of news better. If the date is correct, then there was almost a week between the first presentation and the news release. They could easy release it as a timed document on their web site or leave instructions for it to be done it manually.

BTW, I looked for the site where that SCEE release was made, but couldn't find it. Is it a private address not open to the public?

I only used the information about the game as one example, but there is no way on Earth that Kaz should be requesting one web site (Kokatu) to solicit feedback from their members, to help SONY make the decision as to whether to release GT5 Prologue to the North American market or not! I don't know about anyone here, but I just can't fathom how a director of any company could allow such a thing to be said, even by himself. Again, apparently it was said to only one web site, not everyone. If his statement is true (I couldn't write fiction like this!), then it is truly bizarre - off the scale; if not true, then action should have been taken to censor the source.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

The hard facts on the game need to be revieled at TGS next month or Sony need to seriously look at how they handle their PR.

... or maybe some folks need to be a tad more realistic and realize Sony has been far more revealing about details on GT5 & GT5 than most game developers where revealing too much info gives your competitors an advantage and risks upsetting hardcore fans should features change... as we have seen when developers promise one thing and deliver something else, no matter how reasonable the change, there seems to always be some diehard fans screaming bloody murder.

 

[linoleum]

You know what would be REALLY great, if this board could maintain a thread that has new info updates only. Going thru the last 10 pages of whether it will be free or not has been amazing!

 

[Grand Prix]

There would be even fewer fans screaming "MURDERRRRRRR!" if they released the damn thing in North America for once.

 

[RedOak]

You know what would be REALLY great, if this board could maintain a thread that has new info updates only. Going thru the last 10 pages of whether it will be free or not has been amazing!

+5

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

There would be even fewer fans screaming "MURDERRRRRRR!" if they released the damn thing in North America for once.

Even if we are to assume GT5 doesn't get an official release in North America, there are plenty of other ways of getting GT5.

PS3 = Region Free. People have been buying and playing games from other regions on the PS3. Even if someone doesn't have the ability to order something off the web, you can count on plenty of GT5 copies being brought over and sold in the States.

It's also been dicussed in the Mega PS3 thread and PSN Store thread that it might be possible to even download it from the European PS Store as long as you use a Credit Card from an International Bank... although some are even specualting that just a normal Amex account will do. I haven't tried it out as there are no games in another region that interest me.

But you're right, some people will find some reason to scream bloody murder no matter what.