And just what then are you arguing so adamantly about D Pads and driving for??
I'll leave you with this thought:
Is controlling a character in Halo with a D Pad like running around on a battlefield in real life?
Well, there is one more thing. I was reading back over your posts to see if I was out of line anywhere, and I reread this:
Now, I find this interesting for a few reasons. Having recalled Enthusias atrocious upgrade system vaguely, I'm not sure if you can set your tranny gear ratios as much as Forza or even GT, or if you can do much tuning at all. But let's say for the sake of argument that EPR's cars are as tunable as any others.
First, I know that almost no one who tunes their cars has the same settings. They set their cars up to suit their racing style. And this of course means that everyone is going to race a bit differently. Some will break earlier and lighter, some later and harder. Some will tromp on the gas and some smoothly accelerate. Some will drift around turns and others take them with a minimum of tire fuss.
Now racing competitively means that you follow a certain pattern of strategy. You will approach a turn a certain way, break at certain points, shift at certain points, and gas away at certain points. Varying from that by too much means you are either too slow or headed for the grass.
Even then, everyone won't brake, shift and gas at exactly the same points, even with the same cars set up exactly the same way. Some may not downshift to the same gear as you, or downshift further. The drives will be close, but we aren't robots. Add different tuning preferences in there and the differences in driving tactics will probably change even more. Heck, some people leave their cars at default settings, and some people tweak every single parameter.
I probably don't set up my car like you. I probably set up my transmission for tracks differently than many of you, but it suits my style and I post competitive times. But if we raced, I'm pretty sure our telemetry readouts would show differences, even as our times would probably be rather similar.
So what am I to make of your above remarks about perfectly matching a certain race video? Well, it could be just pure coincidence, because there is no "perfect spot" to brake on a turn. Everything you do with a car depends on the moment.
Whoa, now you're putting a car simulator, against a 100% arcade First person shooter, where you can jump extremley high, never get tired, run at about 5 times real life speed, you're able to shoot with laser like acuracy at 360 degrees in a milisecond because in FPS aparently there is no limitation to where your hands can reach or how fast your hips can turn, you can take an incredible ammount of damage with out dying, or to make a long story short, you violate evry single law of physics.
The fact that you are comparing these two shows just how bad you interpret reality, might as well start comparing real life cars with burnout, which as irrealistic as it would be a comparasion, would still be a much better one than a human being in a FPS, specially one that's 100% arcade like Halo.
The fact that there is no "real" FPS simulator, or even aproximations to the developers that claim they made a simulator, shows that FPS are in fact a genere, and not just a point of view when it comes to games. Despite developers claims, (i'm pretty sure i've read more than one developer say "FPS is not a genere, is a point of view!") and it also shows that while a mouse and keyboard provide really nice gameplay for fast pased shooters, it's just not suitable for recreating how your head, fingers, hands, arms, legs, knees, toes, etc. move.
I'm sure they could make one that had all that level of control, but it would be a very frustrating experience indeed with either a gamepad or a mouse/keyboard. if they gave you all those controls, (hell, you'd even have to worry about how to move your eyes and lips.)
A steering wheel on the other hand, is PERFECT for simulating how a car handles. and a gamepad still allows for some level of control, even if you won't be as good as you would be with a wheel.
It's very funny that you are comparing a very simple way of controlling something (a car with a steering wheel and pedals) to a human that has an overwhelming ammount of moving parts compared to being seated in a cockpit.
Just ask yourself this: Which is easier to simulate? a human body? or a car that has VERY limited movement compared to your body and that has controls that are easy to recreate for that pourpuse? (eg, a videogame steering wheel.)
Or ask yourself this: Whats easier to simulate, a plane. or a car?
(a plane has FAR less factors to worry about to make an accurate simulation, all of a sudden there's no 4 tyres to worry about to simulate, which makes it far easier, which is why for more than a decade we've had really good flight simulators.)
The fact is, a proper car or flight simulator can yield VERY similar results to the real thing. (at this point in time this is specially true for a flight simulator.)
You can belive whatever you want to belive though, since that seems to be your thing.
And i thought i had made my point about the D pad perfectly clear, obviously you don't understand anything of what you read.
I think i made it very clear that what i meant was, that while you could be able to tell if the physics are realistic or not.
It wouldn't be comparable to actually using a steering wheel. Which by the way, is why this whole argument started. But about 10 posts later you still don't understand, so i just have to give up.
And obviously you also didn't get the what i meant about transmitions... why am i not surprised at this point?
I'll try one more time: Enthusia has REAL automatic transmitions on cars that in real life only have automatic transmitions.
However, you can choose "autoshift" for manuals (meaning, let the game do the job for you.) or you can shift manualy on an automatic transmision, like for example a "triptonic" where even though the transmision is automatic, you can still do the shifting.
In the GT series. ALL cars, even the ones that don't have a manual transmition in real life are manuals, that you can set to "autoshift".
It's NOT an automatic though.
If you don't understand with that explination, i don't think you'll ever understand.
I also find it extremley amusing how you think there can be "coincidence" trough out most of the track. The fact of the matter is. There ARE ideal braking spots on a track, that on a time attack are easier to tackle than in an actual race that has the track crowded.
The fact that you think there is not such a thing as an ideal braking spot, goes to show you don't really know what you're talking about.
This will of course vary from car to car for numerous reasons, but mainly due to tyre grip and the wheight of the car. (lighter cars can of course afford to brake considerably later than a heavier one.)
But when all that is said and done, there is only one ideal braking spot lap after lap on the same car. (assuming the tyres are warmed up and are still in good condition.)
To add to that, do you also think it's a "coincidence" that my equivalent time attacks on GT4 permits to braking that is just physicly impossible in real life? (there's no "IF's" here, you can compare videos to real life and notice immediatly just how different the braking spots are. Addmidety it's now better than in previous GT's, but still not good enough.)
The fact that i can brake considerably further from the ideal braking spot is evidences to my claim.
For this you only need to look at a lot of real life time attacks on any track that GT4 has, and you'll soon realize just how different the braking spots are, considering the cars are supposed to be of very similar weight and tyre grip.
Not only that, but you don't get punished enough for slamming on the brakes while turning, in real life this could lead to disaster. in GT4 you are forgiven a LOT if you slam on the brakes while turning, GT4 is a considerable improvement over the past GT's, but it's still far from realistic. It is however, realistic enough to be fun by my standards at least, allthought not evry sim fan would agree.
And you can stop using the "it's a videogame, LOL it can't be realistic!" excuse, because there are more realistic sims out there, so it's not impossible to make it better.
You can ignore a game's flaws all you want, but it's people like you that give developers no useful fedback, we know what needs improvement. There's no reason to keep quiet about it. (afterall, PD ist he one claiming they make the REAL driving simulator, not we.)
According to the interview from the German convention.
The main reason they added the new "physics model" which we've yet to test, is because PD was getting very different feedback from the fanbase.
One side claimed that the game was too hard, and that they just couldn't handle it, and another side claimed that they wanted more realisim, because it wasn't enough yet.
See, that's the main reason they added two different modes this time. so for people like you that wan't a more arcade-like experience PD allready has you covered.
The point i try to make is not to bash the GT series for it's shortcomings, but to point out what in my opinion could see improvement to make it a better simulator.
So, we'll see just how big of an improvement the new physics mode is.
But stop pretending that there can't be improvement made on something that is so obviously flawed because you think that a simulation that also happens to be a videogame, can't ever be realistic.
So, while i'm convinced that a SWAT member wouldn't use Counterstrike as a reliable way to learn how to take down terrorists, i'm pretty sure race car drivers can use simulators to learn the tracks, in GT4 even. (this HAS happened before by the way.)
Maybe one day the GT series will be realistic enough so that not only they can learn the layout of the track, but how the car should behave on it.
If thats the way GT is gonna be then so be it.....but....if another developer makes a real driving sim with the above qualities (and they are the main things along with cars and tracks) that you listed, I will buy that game and NOT (underlined) GT's.
