Pre-release GT5:Prologue Thread Firmware 2.17 mandatory for GT5:P? (and Pictures)

[Ocean]

PD has set high expectations for their fans, graphics wise, already. So much so it is too late to decrease graphical to compensate for damage. Kazunori promised damage for GT5, so that atleast has to mean we will see damage in a Gran Turismo game sometime in the PS3's lifetime, I definitely don't think Kazunori would have said this if it atleast wouldn't be seen on a PS3...

Maybe PD has such an smokin' damage system laid out, that they want to tantalize us little by little (Some say the E3 teaser didn't improve much, but I sure as hell think it did.) because we'd never expect they could make the PS3 handle so much. Maybe the system isn't even finalized yet and they wouldn't care to show any of it yet since they know it'll be in the final version anyway. I have a sneaking suspicion PD knew GT:HD would be a flop, and were ready to can it from the beginning to work on GT5, they wanted to test the people's patience.

Maybe PD will make damage optional when someone hosts a race. If you want damage, the grid will be reduced to the standard 6.

 

[VVENOM800TT]

It does look like the AI has been somewhat improved in the trailer. At the end when the cars are racing down the straight at Suzuka one car (looks like an Audi R8) makes an evasive maneuver to avoid being hit from its right rear by a Viper.

It looks promising, at least the AI is aware of it's surroundings this time around.

Lets just hope thats not all it can do.

 

[solinent]

I don' think any of that is CGI, except maybe the first bit "before" the camera swooshes into the first person view.

Also, I think that it has added AA (quite substantial), similar to that of the promo trailers for GT:HD (the one that plays in the start also).

I think graphical quality will exceed this by launch. Amazing, if you think about it.

 

[MasterGT]

Kazunori promised damage for GT5

There has been no direct promise of damage since the GT:HD fiasco.
It has always been a "maybe". Only the media has taken it further.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[hornet_burnout]

...it would have little or no impact on the release date.

I got it. You believe PD has unlimited resources, PS3 HW is all mighty and endeless, and that it's possible. Then tell me, why don't they throw that in???

 

[Dave A]

I got it. You believe PD has unlimited resources, PS3 HW is all mighty and endeless, and that it's possible. Then tell me, why don't they throw that in???

He already told you how it might have little to no impact on the release date. You clearly did not read any part of his post other than what you quoted. I'll tell you what, I'll quote his post and underline the points that answer your question and also answer any reservations regarding Scaff's position on the matter.

Change would to 'may' and I might agree with you, but lets be honest outside of PD we don't know the project timetable for GT5. If damage has been worked on from day 1 (and they simply have not confirmed it) then it would have little or no impact on the release date.

We simply do not have enough information to make statements of this nature.

Regards

Scaff

 

[hornet_burnout]

I was asking him for his opinion.

Because mine is that even if they were working on it from day one, developing a new damage system and integrating it on the rest of the game would make the relase date later that acceptable (whatever that is), no matter how many people they would have working on it.

I did read everything, and agree with last sentence: "We simply do not have enough information to make statements of this nature. ", but I'm allowed to speculate, wonder and post my opinion right?

That's what forum's are about... I guess...

 

[GTXLR]

I was asking him for his opinion.

Because mine is that even if they were working on it from day one, developing a new damage system and integrating it on the rest of the game would make the relase date later that acceptable (whatever that is), no matter how many people they would have working on it.

I did read everything, and agree with last sentence: "We simply do not have enough information to make statements of this nature. ", but I'm allowed to speculate, wonder and post my opinion right?

That's what forum's are about... I guess...

Given the earliest expected release date is sometime 2008, developement time on the game would have been 3-4 years, do you think that isnt enough time to develop this one item of the game.
The PS3 hardware is capable of delivering some form of damage engine, the problems of the past have been with manufacturers limitations and PDs vision for damage system being incompatible, along with hardware limitations.
KY has already suggested that the damage system may well be limited to race cars only, where the licensing issues are much less stringent and will allow him to show off something more realistic than manufacturers are prepared to allow him to show with the showroom models.
I simply dont agree when you say that the PS3 is not capable of this without reducing something else in the game (though this is relative, they could always use the extra capacity to refine another feature, but if they strike a good balance it will be possible), or that the time spent working on this will cause further delays.

 

[hornet_burnout]

I agree, you are all right about not being a HW limitation. GT3 didn't push the PS2 to the limitis also. Point taken!

But about the why, I still belive they tried but could not make a decent system, not in time for the game to be released in this decade

Hope to be wrong and have a nice surprise in the end.

 

[solinent]

I agree, you are all right about not being a HW limitation. GT3 didn't push the PS2 to the limitis also. Point taken!

But about the why, I still belive they tried but could not make a decent system, not in time for the game to be released in this decade

Hope to be wrong and have a nice surprise in the end.

Imagine a damage engine simillar to DIRT

www.gamespot.com/video/932887/6169277/dirt-damage-model-video-feature

 

[Dead_Poetic]

Heres to hoping, but I just dont think that kind of damage would be possible. Simply because there are too many cars in GT5. We know that all the cars that were in GT4 are going to be in GT5, plus more, like ferrari's etc. With 700+ cars, i dont think that a damage system that complex could be implemented. I could stand to be corrected though.

 

[GT Pro]

Simply because there are too many cars in GT5. We know that all the cars that were in GT4 are going to be in GT5, plus more, like ferrari's etc. With 700+ cars, i dont think that a damage system that complex could be implemented.

They have announced (a continued) 700+ vehicles in Gran Turismo 5?
In my opinion, 700 cars is rather overkill; half the vehicles in GT4 many will never drive or even care about. I would be happy with 300 and more than happy with 500. No more, no less.

 

[VVENOM800TT]

yeah, i don't know if they have enough modelers to make 700+ cars. say it takes 4 years to make the game (2004 - 2008), and it takes 6 months to make a car, thats 8 cars per modeler.

700/8 is like 87, so unless they have 87 people modeling cars i don't think we're gonna get 700ish cars this time around. And like Gt Pro said, 300 is more than enough, at least for me.

 

[TopHat]

They have quite a few people at PD.... They have approximatley 90 employees.... And they did say a while ago that they would like to have all the cars from GT4.... I think.

 

[McLaren]

Heres to hoping, but I just dont think that kind of damage would be possible. Simply because there are too many cars in GT5. We know that all the cars that were in GT4 are going to be in GT5, plus more, like ferrari's etc. With 700+ cars, i dont think that a damage system that complex could be implemented. I could stand to be corrected though.

Um, didn't Polyphony saw in an article that also mentioned the Ferrari license that there would be a lot less cars in GT5?

Well with the way that PD has been talking, I seriously doubt that they are going to have damage in GT5. It doesnt seem like something that they have been working on, and its certainly unlike PD just to do something at the last minute, and half-ass it. Although, they do have a lot of time to work on it, it would take PD forever to perfect it, as they do everything else.

Who's to say they're not working on it now? After all, we're still at the beginning of GT5 development, so it's best to show nothing than something that looks like half-assed attempts at damage.

 

[amar212]

Imagine a damage engine simillar to DIRT

You don't have to imagine it. It is called next-gen TOCA. And Codies will deliver it early in 2008 hopefully.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

They have announced (a continued) 700+ vehicles in Gran Turismo 5?
In my opinion, 700 cars is rather overkill; half the vehicles in GT4 many will never drive or even care about. I would be happy with 300 and more than happy with 500. No more, no less.

Well, try and think of it like this. Some people might not want to drive the same 300 cars you want to drive and might want to drive another 300 cars. They're putting a variety in there to accomodate for everyone. There also might be people who actully want to drive every car. I know someone on this forum who has attempted to do so.

 

[JohnBM01]

What would be a great amount of cars to work with? Think about all the different manufacturers and race constructors that may show up in GT5. What would be a respectable number of cars? And is there a such thing as too many cars?

 

[hornet_burnout]

On the car list, I hope they manage it a bit better, with more really different cars, and not so many variations on the same theme like in GT4.

I think GT4 pushed that a bit to far, especially on Japanese cars... Is there really the need for 10 different versions of an MX5 (or so)? Or some 30 Skylines?

As oposed to leaving out the old Mini for example, which I think was a crime...

 

[TOYOTA FR3AK]

GT5P does look promising, I can't wait for it! I hope they release it for all regions. (GT4P wasn't available as a USNTSC release.)

^ Those rear foglamps are not available on the US model, plus it also has those "Mazda" looking turning side makers on its front fenders. Look at the pic closely.

Just to clear things up, it's a JDM-spec Mustang, sold by Ford Japan.

They're actually amber indicators stuck onto the rear bumper, not foglights.

http://www.carview.co.jp/road_impression/2006/ford_mustang/

 

[Scaff]

I got it. You believe PD has unlimited resources, PS3 HW is all mighty and endeless, and that it's possible. Then tell me, why don't they throw that in???

Sorry but what exactly is your problem? I have to let you know quite bluntly that I do not like being misquoted at all.

What I said in full was....

Change would to 'may' and I might agree with you, but lets be honest outside of PD we don't know the project timetable for GT5. If damage has been worked on from day 1 (and they simply have not confirmed it) then it would have little or no impact on the release date.

We simply do not have enough information to make statements of this nature.

...what you quoted me as saying was...

...it would have little or no impact on the release date.

...dramatically different things. Let me ask how would you take it if I claimed you had said...

...PD has unlimited resources...

..see its quite different to what you originally said.

I would also like to add that I did not make any claim regarding the all powerful nature of the PS3 hardware, in fact in other threads you will find that I cite it as one of the reasons why a true 100% real damage model will never happen on the PS3 (or any future hardware for a long time).

Now I understand that you have also claimed since the post I quoted above that you were asking me my opinion, well no your were not. You took something I said and misquoted it to directly try and score points, not an attitude that will earn you a great deal of respect here at GT Planet, nor will mis-quoting people lead to a long and happy membership.

We are more than happy to discuss subjects openly here, but you will find that we do have (for the internet) a very high standard we set for members.


Now back to the subject at hand, you will see that I never claimed that PD had been working on it from day one, nor that they had the resources to do it in the time available. What I quite clearly said was that we don't know and can only speculate.

Regards

Scaff

 

[hornet_burnout]

Scaff, I was looking for a "good" argument on the subject, not a fight. I don't have a problem and did not intend to miss quote you...

 

[amar212]

Quite frankly, compared to all other known developers who exists on this pathetic planet - compared to all of them PD actually have something you might call "unlimited budget" and get away with it even at Supreme Court. But nevermind, just couldn't resist to say so .

 

[VVENOM800TT]

There just needs to more variety in GT5, and they should thry to not bias they're car list so much.

I know it's much easier for them to get the Japanese cars, but don't make that a reason to overwhelm us with them in comparison to european and american cars.

Sure it's nice to have every type og skyline and RX-7 but instead of having 30 of each, why not include some cars that we have never seen before, Noble maybe, Ariel would be nice as well.

Just my .02 cents

 

[Scaff]

Scaff, I was looking for a "good" argument on the subject, not a fight. I don't have a problem and did not intend to miss quote you...

Don't get me wrong I am not looking for a fight, rather the main focus of my post is to remind you (from the point of view of the AUP) what is and is not acceptable.

Intentional or not I'm sure you would admit that what you quoted was very different from what I actually said.

Let the debate continue.

Scaff

 

[hornet_burnout]

Intentional or not I'm sure you would admit that what you quoted was very different from what I actually said.

[FONT=&quot][/FONT] Yes. And I already admitted I misquoted you. I re-read your post and I was wrong. I'm sorry I misunderstood the whole thing. But I am not some new kid trying to score points. I've sent you a PM on the subject if you care to discuss those accusations any further.

On topic:
About the car list, it would be nice if there was some kind of "master" car list, with every different model, and without the versions, and then a "full" list with everything. It would give us a better perspective on the real number of cars.

 

[Dead_Poetic]

Um, didn't Polyphony saw in an article that also mentioned the Ferrari license that there would be a lot less cars in GT5?.

No, in fact it has been confirmed that all the cars that were in GT4 will be in GT5. Note: This does not mean that they have to rework every single car. All they have to do is basically re-vamp the models that they used for GT4. It has been said that GT4 was created with GT5 in mind, and that their models for GT4 should be easily expanded.

Who's to say they're not working on it now? After all, we're still at the beginning of GT5 development, so it's best to show nothing than something that looks like half-assed attempts at damage.

Oh Im sure that they have made attempts at it, and they may have a pretty good system, but as far as what they have let us all know, they arent going to implement it untill it can accurately and realisticly display damage. And to do that with 700+ cars seems a little out of the question. But as I said before, I hope that I stand to be corrected.

Edit!: Maybe Im wrong, Apparently in the Car and driver issue that had the interview with Yamauchi, He said that there will be less cars than GT4 at the launch of GT5. I need to find out where I read that all the cars in GT4 were going to be in GT5. Sorry.

Edit 2: It was in a french article with Kazunori where it was stated that all cars from GT4 were going to beincluded in GT5. Maybe it was soemthing that they recently found could not be acheived. I dont know. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[GTXLR]

No, in fact it has been confirmed that all the cars that were in GT4 will be in GT5. Note: This does not mean that they have to rework every single car. All they have to do is basically re-vamp the models that they used for GT4. It has been said that GT4 was created with GT5 in mind, and that their models for GT4 should be easily expanded.




Oh Im sure that they have made attempts at it, and they may have a pretty good system, but as far as what they have let us all know, they arent going to implement it untill it can accurately and realisticly display damage. And to do that with 700+ cars seems a little out of the question. But as I said before, I hope that I stand to be corrected.

Edit!: Maybe Im wrong, Apparently in the Car and driver issue that had the interview with Yamauchi, He said that there will be less cars than GT4 at the launch of GT5. I need to find out where I read that all the cars in GT4 were going to be in GT5. Sorry.

Edit 2: It was in a french article with Kazunori where it was stated that all cars from GT4 were going to beincluded in GT5. Maybe it was soemthing that they recently found could not be acheived. I dont know. We'll just have to wait and see.

The french article, was a mass of confusion, much of it caused by polyphony themselves.
It was unclear what the next GT title will be in that interview, it was to be something between GT4 and GT5.
It has been suggested that GT4HD classic/premiuim may well evolve into the next title, where the classic element of said game could easily feature 700+ GT 4 cars, as that game was ready at PS3 launch, the premium element could then be GT5 prologue which would likely feature 2 or 3 tracks and 30 or so cars.

The lack of clarity about what any future GT title will contain, or if we will see any part of GT4HD is all confused by PD and its PR machine, it seems that they were unsure amongst themselves about the direction any GT output would definately take, during the PR events where those interviews took place.

 

[Kent]

I think one major problem with the PR system is that we are getting info from so many different sources, most of which are not PD themselves.
With that in mind, it is important to remember that Magazine publishers and online sources are not doing the work for PD, they are doing it for themselves and so it may be fair to say that the info provided is provided for the benefit of said publication.
With that in mind, ( ), it may also be fair to say that the info is not published in a timely fashion.
A magazines schedule of publication might not be directly related to the schedule on which the info was gathered. An interview may go for a month or two without being published because the magazine's objectives do not necessarily include timely release of PR info from PD.

So with all that mind,
I believe it is fair to say our best bet for info is the most recent live source, E3. Based on that, I'd say there is a good chance that GT4HD premium and classic are gone with the wind. I believe GT5 prologue will be the next release by PD and that will be followed by GT5.
The time-table for those projects is something I'm not sure of, but I can say this much... PD (although notorious for delays) is also well known for creating quality products.
GT5 will more than likely be released on a schedule that is based solely on the quality of the product. If it takes them until 2009 ( ) to create a product they are happy with, then it will be 2009 when we get GT5. If they manage to create a quality product between now and this time next year I am sure GT5 will be just behind GT5.

Let's hope GT5 is released at the Tokyo game show in Sept. and GT5 is released in spring '08 (if not earlier).

Of course, one other thing to consider is when the fiscal year ends and begins for Sony and PD. That could be a deciding factor in the release of the game as well.

 

[the Interceptor]

I think one major problem with the PR system is that we are getting info from so many different sources, most of which are not PD themselves.

I see this as a major flaw in the information policy of PD. Unlike other software companies, they do not give out any information at all. The official PD website is more than useless, and the official Gran Turismo website is updated when we already know what they are going to say.

The only information we get is on gaming fairs like E3 and TGS and from interviews in magazines. And that's not very much, is it? I mean how often do we see such a fair? As for the interviews I'm afraid, Kaz is not very willing to give out vital information. Add a bit of misunderstanding and translation problems, and you end up with virtually nothing of serious content.

Now, noone can force PD to give out any info on their work, but I've always found and still find this fairly annoying. 👎