Presidential Election: 2012

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Now that we know that Obama will rule for another 4 year, is there any change that both parties will swallow their pride and actually work together to get the USA back to the healthy, dominating we are going to kick your ass if you don't listen world police they once were?

Please?
 
There's a lot going on around the world now, I hope Boehner and Reid can find common ground with our economy first. That would be my first priority, we're facing a fiscal cliff in a few short months.
Our country seems to be leaning liberal, I expect but do not like the fact our military may suffer from it, meaning we may be in the mindset of saving the planet, not policing it.
Who knows what the future holds, it'll be interesting for sure.
 
Now that we know that Obama will rule for another 4 year, is there any change that both parties will swallow their pride and actually work together to get the USA back to the healthy, dominating we are going to kick your ass if you don't listen world police they once were?

Please?


👍
 
FoolKiller,

No one is implying war is good, but it is very profitable for those specifically in charge of our central bank, or Federal Reserve after 1913... Same thing. We see little or no return as citizens, unless you work for Brown and Root, Halliburton, etc.

The contracts pay vast sums of money, right down to the truck driver.
Example:

I spent 18 months in Kuwait (US ARMY) from '97 to '98. I was an E-2 private making $1137 a month.
New hires working for B&R were there with us servicing our Howitzers, etc. They're starting salaries were $10K a month, insane. Our own four star generals barely make that.
All at the cost of the average American citizen. War is paid for by the government. Government does not make money, they take it from those who make it. War hurts the economy.

And don't think I am disregarding what you did in Kuwait or whatever. I work in a government job currently. I have no delusions about where my paycheck comes from.

Netanyahu has no faith in Obama, rightly so I feel.
I'm concerned we're about to see Israel make a serious move on Iran in the near future. He has said they'll go it alone, and so be it.

Also, the news tonight is reporting on Oct. 30, an Iranian fighter jet fired at (and missed)
one of our drones patrolling offshore.
Propaganda or truth? Are we being set up to get sucked in again?
Let Israel go it alone. They aren't our dog to keep on a leash.

And if Iran fired on a drone, I wouldn't be surprised. To clarify, offshore in this case means international waters.

Back on topic, has anyone heard if Florida is reporting yet. I know it's irrelevant, I'd like to know which way the state went.
I saw a headline earlier today that Romney conceded Florida, so no matter the ultimate outcome, he gave it up. Why he held on to it so strongly, I have no clue.
 
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Only one thing to say about election 2012 ...

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

You have just voted in economic and spiritual suicide. The lazy ones will not realize this until it's to late.
 
...because you think Obama is going to do what he says? Or because you think Romney would have done what he said?
 
Now that we know that Obama will rule for another 4 year, is there any change that both parties will swallow their pride and actually work together to get the USA back to the healthy, dominating we are going to kick your ass if you don't listen world police they once were?

Please?

Lol ok we'll get on that bro.👍

-Uncle Sam.

But in seriousness, expect Obama to be more aggressive now when it comes to unilateralism. He doesn't have to worry about a second election now.
 
I laughed so hard at all those foolish Fox News 'contributors' claiming it'd be a landslide for Romney. Now they blame it on Hurricane Sandy. What a joke. Romney never stood a chance. I've said this to my g/f for the past year. He received no african american vote, less than 40% of the latino vote and woman vote. He didn't have a chance.
 


Was a good speech until the crocodile tears came out. I feel bad for Obama because he really honestly believes he's helping people, and that he turned to "public service" or, in other words, coerced redistribution as the vehicle by which he would work to achieve that end.
 
Now they blame it on Hurricane Sandy. What a joke.
From the last polls to the outcome a good number of the undecided vote went to Obama. To blame/credit that on race relations is silly. It is perfectly reasonable to assume the way Obama appeared to handle himself in the aftermath of Sandy grabbed some of that undecided. Would Romney have won if Sandy hadn't happened? Doubtful, but I guarantee it would have been closer. Colin Powell likely played a role too.

I feel bad for Obama because he really honestly believes he's helping people, and that he turned to "public service" or, in other words, coerced redistribution as the vehicle by which he would work to achieve that end.
Most government workers believe that when they start. I'm surrounded at work by people who want to do good and think redistribution is the way to do it and brush off any argument in opposition as hateful and stupid.
 
But in seriousness, expect Obama to be more aggressive now when it comes to unilateralism. He doesn't have to worry about a second election now.

Thing is though, the Republicans have the house, and the Democrats have the senate. Anything the Democrats propose will get shot down in the house, and anything the Republicans put through the house will get canned in the Senate. Unless Obama wants to get crazy with the executive orders (as in, worse than already), there's not much he can really do.
 
lol@ redistribution. No one said anything of that sort when Clinton was president and the tax rates were at a level Obama is proposing. The big deal is not even that rich people pay less on a percentage basis. It's the fact that huge corporations pay no taxes, in fact some receive money on their tax returns. Boeing, Walmart, GE just name a few off the top of my head. And executive orders? Obama has only done 138 compared to 291 for Bush in his 8 year and Clinton's 364. He's on pace to do less than either of them.
 
lol@ redistribution. No one said anything of that sort when Clinton was president and the tax rates were at a level Obama is proposing.
Um, yes they did. Or do you forget Hilary designing a healthcare plan that got shot down?

It's not even that rich people pay less on a percentage basis.
That explains the Buffett Law proposal then. And, no they don't if you look at actual payroll income comparisons.

It's the fact that huge corporations pay no taxes, in fact some receive money on their tax returns. Boeing, Walmart, GE just name a few off the top of my head. And executive orders? Obama has only done 138 compared to 291 for Bush in his 8 year and Clinton's 364.
Ah, so the members of Obama's jobs committe are the problem.

By the way, you know why GE and Boeing pay "no" taxes? In GE's case it is because they create green technology, like CFLs, that need to be made outside of the country because of the toxic chemicals inside them. GE gets tax breaks for doing what the government asks, and moves jobs out of the US to do it. Boeing gets breaks for military contracts. Pay them in cash or in tax incentives. Either way it comes out of your pocket.
 
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Somewhat relevant :indiff:
 
Now that we know that Obama will rule for another 4 year, is there any change that both parties will swallow their pride and actually work together to get the USA back to the healthy, dominating we are going to kick your ass if you don't listen world police they once were?

Please?

👍
 
I don't buy that Obama thinks he's truly helping Americans. Why would he be blowing us up with drones, spying on us, and raiding our homes?
 
The big deal is not even that rich people pay less on a percentage basis.

Rich people pay more on a percentage basis. There is nothing in the tax code that says once you're rich you get to start taking massive deductions. Deductions all phase out with higher income until you're left paying through the nose - ask me how I know.

When people claim that rich people pay less on a percentage basis, it's because they're talking about capital gains. Now, capital gains tax is a flat 15% tax that applies to everyone equally. You do not have to be rich to pay it, and you do not have to be rich to have capital gains.

What does happens is that rich people start making the majority of their income from capital gains. For example, if the CEO of microsoft does a good job, his stocks become worth more. If he sells that stock for a profit, he pays capital gains tax, not income tax.

There is a difference because capital gains is not income, it's the appreciation of post-tax dollars that were invested in a company, that the company was able to use to build infrastructure, and which is returning value on investment. Why it is taxed at all is beyond me.

I think we should eliminate the capital gains tax, this would help make it clear just how much income tax the rich really pay.... way more than you... way more than their secretaries.

(There's more to the story of course. The reason buffet claims he pays less in taxes than his secretary, who probably pays a negative federal income tax rate - ie she makes money off of the IRS - is that he includes social security, medicare, and other sorts of taxes that aren't supposed to be taxes but you funding your own entitlement program. So it's nonsense to include those things.)
 
Zenith013
I don't buy that Obama thinks he's truly helping Americans. Why would he be blowing us up with drones, spying on us, and raiding our homes?

Other than the blowing up with drones thing (which I'm not sure what exactly you're talking about) do you really think previous regimes DIDN'T spy on Americans and raid their homes at the slightest provocation?
 
...and if you were able to read what I wrote about capital gains and think "well we should tax people for capital gains as if it were income", nevermind what that does to the market, my response is this....

Obama has pledged to raise income tax, not capital gains. So he could get all of the tax hikes he's talking about and 4 years from now the democrats will say the same thing. He could raise taxes to 100% of all income above $250,000/year (which seems to be everyone's favorite number for saying "you're rich"), and they STILL would say the rich do not pay their fair share because capital gains would still be at 15%. Bait and switch.
 
I think the problem people have is when someone who's a multi-millionaire pays some ridiculously low amount. And since those are the only stories we ever here I think the general public just assumes all wealthy people don't pay taxes. Same thing goes with businesses too.
 
I can say, from personal experience, that where big business may benefit from low taxes (in certain situations), they are targeted for big fines from big brother. EPA and OSHA fines alone are becoming a major player in generating revenue for their departments while, in some cases, stifle local business.

With the ludicrous fines and unreasonable regulations that are being imposed, why would anyone in their right mind want to start a business in the US? In an effort to generate more revenue, our Government is continuing to drive businesses out of the US as well as businesses just getting shut down which only adds to our unemployment.

Keep it fair and reasonable, but when these agencies can write their own check and write their only regulatory guidelines for the rest of us to follow, their pockets will get lined while people trying to run their business are getting shut down. Yes, more government please!
 
Ok, so let's look at a couple of scenarios.

Older couple has about $4 million to their name in retirement accounts. Husband is semi-retired, getting pretty old, and works about half-time as a doctor making maybe $50k/year. His wife doesn't work. He's a multi-millionaire with very little income of any kind. The result, very little income tax as you'd expect.

He collects social security, qualifies for medicare, and maybe pays 2% of his income in federal income taxes. He only pays capital gains if he makes money in investments (which I think has been about break even for the last few years, so that's zero). He probably scratches a check for $1000 to the federal government in income tax (not including social security taxes etc.).

Now let's look at a hypothetical teacher. She has $2k in her checking account, lives basically paycheck-to-paycheck, makes $40k per year working full time. She has two kids, a mortgage, and an unemployed husband who collects unemployement benefits. She pays probably -10% in federal income tax. In otherwords, she gets more out of the income tax system than she puts in. She probably nets a $4k profit from the tax system.

A couple in their early 30s with $100k in their bank account are each making $150k per year. They haven't had much time to save up yet, but they make more than $250,000 per year. This means they don't qualify for just about any deductions, they get hit with AMT, and the full brunt of society's hatred for the rich (even though they are definitely not rich). They have high incomes, but very little savings compared to income. Their effective tax rate on all income is probably about 18-20%. So they pay about $50,000 in federal income tax.

^^ These are the people all of the income tax hikes are aimed at.

CEO of a major corporation gets paid $400k annually, but also owns stock. His stock increases by %10 for the year partially as a result of his work, but partially because the company is doing well. He takes some profits from the stock gains that net him an additional $2 million in income for the year. On his $400,000 he gets no deductions, AMT, massive income tax percentages etc. He probably pays 20% on that (federally). So he pays about $80,000 in federal taxes. On the $2M, he pays capital gains (15%), so he shells out another $300,000 in capital gains tax.

He paid 20% on his income, but he only paid 15% on his capital gains. For Obama's speeches, he'd treat this guy as having a $2,400,000 income for the year and calculate the total tax paid ($380,000) as 15.8%. Then he goes and looks at the marginal tax brackets and sees that if you make $40k per year your maginal tax rate is 25%!!!!

Havoc!! The school teacher pays more tax than the CEO!!!

Except she was given a check for $4k and he paid in $380,000. This is simplified, I left social security out because it just makes all of the math more complicated, but it exacerbates the story. So what shall we do about the CEO and the school teacher???

We should raise taxes on the 30 year old couple making $300,000. That's basically what Obama is saying. We're going to raise the INCOME tax, to fix the disparity between capital gains and income.

Here's my solution, stop calling capital gains income. Now all of the sudden the CEO pays 20% of his income ($300,000). Done. Job jobbed.

Edit:

Here's an even better solution, get rid of the income tax altogether and institute a sales tax. Now the retired doctor, the school teacher, the CEO, and the young hardworking couple all pay the same rate, and they pay proportionally to what they spend (which is largely in their control). There are no deductions, there is no gamesmanship, there is no distinction between sources of income, nothing... just a flat tax rate applied to everyone.
 
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Attitudes like this are what is going to be the death of America, until we can put all the petty bull 🤬 behind us and work together things will not work, no matter who the puppet president is at the time.

I also want you to keep in mind, that ultimately, above all else, we are Americans, that is something that has been forgotten lately.

We're all Americans. That sounds nice. But for 8 years the vast left wing conspiracy (media, educational system) looked to tear down Bush. He wasn't perfect, but he wasn't the devil they successfully painted him as. They painted the same picture of Romney. Evil rich guy looking to give tax cuts to the rich while stealing candy from your babies. Same old crap. Same old idiotic public too caught up in who is winning American Idol to care about anything important. Half the electorate is literally brainwashed to think all republicans are racist rich guys.

And it's not about petty politics anymore. It's about reality. All the presidents in the history of this country gave us 10 trillion in debt. Obama, while pulling and cutting our military at every corner, has added 6 trillion on to that in 4 years. Unemployment hovers around 8 percent, with the actual unemployment (counting those who have just given up) is well into double digits.

And maybe I should hope for better because we're all Americans or whatever. But I'm a realist, and not I'm not Joe Republican either. I've voted for nearly as many democrats in my life as I have the other side. But, I see the storm on the horizon, and I do find it funny that it's the very people who line up in droves thinking hope and change are going to be the ones who feel the brunt of it. No more George Bush to blame.
 
I am totally for a flat tax system. There would be no reason to complain about fairness from everyone since we'd all be taxed at the same rate. I suppose state tax would be up to the states to decide, but a flat tax on the federal level would really help.

TRC GeorgiaDawg
Half the electorate is literally brainwashed to think all republicans are racist rich guys.

Probably because the Republicans present themselves like that. I mean when you have idiotic comments like "legitimate rape" and "evolution is the devil's work" it's hard to present yourself as a reasonable party.
 
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and I do find it funny that it's the very people who line up in droves thinking hope and change are going to be the ones who feel the brunt of it.

The fact you are basically wishing ill will on anyone shows a lot about your character.

No more George Bush to blame.

For the past 12 years I have only blamed one group of people for the countries problems, Congress, seeing they are the ones that actually run this sinking ship.
 
Danoff, have I told you lately how much I love you?

Oh I could go on. The schoolteacher thinks she paid an arm and a leg for taxes because even though she gets a net payout every year the government withholds positive dollars from her paycheck each week. She looks at her pay stub, sees withholding, and thinks - I'm paying a lot of taxes. At the end of the year she gets back more than she put in, but that never factors.

Social security is yet another story. 7% on all income until $100,000.

School teacher pays 7% on all income, a total of $2800. She'll qualify for the maximum SS payout when she retires if she works long enough.

Young couple pay 7% on all income up to $200,000 (because there are two of them), a total of $14,000. They'll qualify for the maximum SS payout when they retire if they work long enough (same as school teacher). But their effective SS tax rate on ALL INCOME is $14,000/$300,000 or 4.6%.

CEO pays 7% on all income up to $100,000, a total of $7000. He'll qualify for the maximum SS payout when he retires (same as school teacher). But his effective SS tax rate on ALL INCOME is $7000/$2,400,000 or 0.6%.

Havoc!! The CEO pays less SS tax!

It's a flat tax that is capped for one simple reason, the benefit caps as well. So in theory, you get out what you pay in (in practice it is redistributive in favor of the poor), so you don't have to pay in on income over a threshold because you don't get any more out. But this effect gets used to skew tax rates even further so that we can pretend that the rich are getting away with murder.
 
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