Project CARS 2 Reviews

[Ian Bell]

I mean that you agree about the shadows problem in the replays but deny that the problem exists during gameplay, but it clearly is there exactly the same than replays:

That's shadow draw in on 3d trees in the distance. It's always going to happen to an extent without baking. There is no way to remove it, yet still have 3d trees AND a fully 24 hour dynamic time of day system where said trees shadow themselves. It's improved though as mentioned above in the next patch. It is much more noticeable in replays where the frustum is focused on the action.

 

[Lain]

Exactly this. Unless someone here is in the "office" next to Ian and hearing otherwise, I'll stick to what Ian is posting.

I dunno... Karak has been in the review business for quite some time with his ACG YouTube channel. I strongly doubt he'd last very long if he was intentionally breaking embargos left and right. He clearly must be sticking to review embargos at least most of the time to continue getting review copies, which leads me to believe that this probably was just an honest mistake or mix-up.

 

[MaLDoX]

That's shadow draw in on 3d trees in the distance. It's always going to happen to an extent without baking. There is no way to remove it, yet still have 3d trees AND a fully 24 hour dynamic time of day system where said trees shadow themselves. It's improved though as mentioned above in the next patch. It is much more noticeable in replays where the frustum is focused on the action.

You said the error only exists on replays and not gameplay.
Now you say it exists but is less noticeable.
For me, is not only the same problem, it's even worse in gameplay because I can skip replays but I have to deal with it while playing.
Is not something that always "going to happen" because there are lots of open world games with dynamic TOD and lots of trees and they don't have this problem.

 

[Ian Bell]

You said the error only exists on replays and not gameplay.
Now you say it exists but is less noticeable.
For me, is not only the same problem, it's even worse in gameplay because I can skip replays but I have to deal with it while playing.
Is not something that always "going to happen" because there are lots of open world games with dynamic TOD and lots of trees and they don't have this problem.

It's not an error. All shadows will draw in at some point. On distant trees, because we're dynamically self shadowing them and they are fully 3d, you will see some draw in. It's barely noticeable in normal gameplay. Very much so in replays, hence us patching it. The patch actually will remove some dynamic shadowing detail but it creates less of a visual impact.

PS, check out post 121 above. I said it's 'much more noticeable' on replays.

 

[V12orchestra]

Can we expect solid 60 fps / 1080p with a RX 480 and an I5 7500 / 7600? I mean with around 20 cars on track and medium/high details ? Framerate is very important for me , PC1 was a nightmare on XB1 .

 

[Anomalistics]

I mean that you agree about the shadows problem in the replays but deny that the problem exists during gameplay, but it clearly is there exactly the same than replays:

Yes, please comment on this Ian. It's clearly visible.

 

[chris4652009]

Can we expect solid 60 fps / 1080p with a RX 480 and an I5 7500 / 7600? I mean with around 20 cars on track and medium/high details ? Framerate is very important for me , PC1 was a nightmare on XB1 .

Out of interest have you played the current Version on Xbox (Version 10.0.0.198) ? I gave it another shot over the weekend having not played it since a few weeks after launch and can honestly say it runs a whole lot better than it used to.

I spent most of yesterday on it, it really was a joy to play...I'm very much looking forward to PC2 now

 

[V12orchestra]

Out of interest have you played the current Version on Xbox (Version 10.0.0.198) ? I gave it another shot over the weekend having not played it since a few weeks after launch and can honestly say it runs a whole lot better than it used to.

I spent most of yesterday on it, it really was a joy to play...I'm very much looking forward to PC2 now

I played it after release , framerate and controller controls were terrible . Now i am curious to see if it runs well on my PC but at the moment there are not much info on framerate and optimization . Forza Motorsport is the benchmark on that regard , it feels great with controller and 60 fps are locked .
AMD cards really suffered with the first game .

 

[PzR Slim]

I think he get payed well so he can/should handle some critics

He is here on embargo lifting day interacting with our community. Haven't seen any other devs doing that. I'd say he's handling it pretty well.

 

[PJTierney]

One of the reviews I have read has said that the game is still a bit of a struggle on controller (Xbox).

Once the game is released, can some Xbox players please share their controller configurations?

I don't plan on playing this at launch, but I might give it a go when the Xbox One X is released and as I am a pad user I'd like to have that same "pick up and play" feeling I get from other racing games.

 

[05XR8]

He is here

Exactimente! That's the thing I don't get with some people. Especially posting that he skips, avoids a/some question(s). Who else is doing this on this forum? When Kaz and Greenwalt come on here and answer questions(and we know this will NEVER happen), I'll take it down a notch.

 

[MaLDoX]

Exactimente! That's the thing I don't get with some people. Especially posting that he skips, avoids a/some question(s). Who else is doing this on this forum? When Kaz and Greenwalt come on here and answer questions(and we know this will NEVER happen), I'll take it down a notch.

In my case, I'm not arguing about Ian visibility or lack of transparency or something like that. I'm arguing about how their point of view (assuming of course he's being honest here) is not good for the game. Saying the shadows problem is "minor" or is only visible on replays does no favours to the game. Really, I'm not buying the game at the moment because those shadows are ****ing distracting and I'm pretty sure those kind of problems scares away thousands of other buyers like me. Saying that it is something normal and irremediable because the game has dynamic lighting and trees with auto shadows does not do favors to the game. There are many games with dynamic lighting and it is the first time we see artifacts so evident in the trees. There's a point of arrogance in Ian's comments that does not do any good either and tends to produce the opposite effect to what he seeks.

But ey, that's my opinion.

 

[MaLDoX]

It's not an error. All shadows will draw in at some point. On distant trees, because we're dynamically self shadowing them and they are fully 3d, you will see some draw in. It's barely noticeable in normal gameplay. Very much so in replays, hence us patching it. The patch actually will remove some dynamic shadowing detail but it creates less of a visual impact.

PS, check out post 121 above. I said it's 'much more noticeable' on replays.

Post 121 was written after I posted video evidence of the problem in gameplay. Your first post on the matter was discrediting on the review and you said this:

"We do have those two graphics issues in replays (tree shadowing and shadow bias, and draw sort order in fog with windshields). Both are improved in the next patch. But it's a valid complaint, albeit replay only. "

And no matter what spin you do, is an error. Obviously, every thing in a game has a reason. Even a bug. A graphical "effect" everybody is criticizing can't be a feature. If you don't want to call error the shadow problem, then the error was to allow it in the game.

 

[doblocruiser]

I'm pretty sure those kind of problems scares away thousands of other buyers like me.

I said before I would be a day one buyer but I am holding off until it (the game itself) is ironed out.

 

[gladbecker82]

Its called Level of Detail. Its not an Error - its hardware limitation.

If you have a Machine that can give you miles of draw distance this would probably not be there. And if you go at 200 kph you will not focus on treelines but on the next gear shift or apex.

 

[SeriousFox]

As much as I hate small unpolished details in computer games, I don’t see reason why some of you guys overreacting to this issue.
I’ll choose simulating power over shadow draw distance every time.

 

[chris4652009]

As much as I hate small unpolished details in computer games, I don’t see reason why some of you guys overreacting to this issue.

Are you new to forums?

*Rhetorical question

 

[Lain]

As much as I hate small unpolished details in computer games, I don’t see reason why some of you guys overreacting to this issue.

You must be new here, otherwise you'd know that trees are by far the most important aspect of racing sims.

D'oh, tree'd!

 

[bleeder]

I'm not at all concerned by any reviews of this game. It is one of those titles I'll pick up without even reading a single review, like I do with Dark Souls games. I know it'll be good and I know it'll be better than the first game which I love and still play to this day (time is running out though... RIP lol). Yes it may have some graphical oddities and even some bugs, but so what? I look forward to another few years of fun with it. Bring on the 22nd!

 

[zaebos]

Maldooooooo

 

[super_gt]

When Kaz and Greenwalt come on here and answer questions(and we know this will NEVER happen)

Do not you remember the @OFFICIAL Kaz was here!

 

[HardRock]

And no matter what spin you do, is an error. Obviously, every thing in a game has a reason. Even a bug.

Technically, it is not a bug, nor an error. It is the downside or side effect of a specific method of shadow mapping. PC2 is by far not the first game to exhibit this artifact and it won't be the last.

A graphical "effect" everybody is criticizing can't be a feature. If you don't want to call error the shadow problem, then the error was to allow it in the game.

It is not a feature nor an error to allow it to be in the game, if due to certain limitations this method of shadow mapping was deemed the best still. Game development is full of compromises, tricks that allow games to look even close to reality, but on the graphics side these often come with artifacts, this shadow shimmering being one of them.

I would also like to say, that in the gameplay video you linked the shimmering you noticed in the replays is almost imperceptible, like Ian said. What you can see however are aliasing on the fences, shadow pop-in on the trees and some Z-buffer issues between layers of leaves on the trees. These are all separate from the shadows "blinking" on the replays that you saw before and all a result of hardware limitations or specific optimization steps taken to allow the game to run as it does, with the feature set it has.

 

[05XR8]

In my case, I'm not arguing about Ian visibility or lack of transparency or something like that. I'm arguing about how their point of view (assuming of course he's being honest here) is not good for the game. Saying the shadows problem is "minor" or is only visible on replays does no favours to the game. Really, I'm not buying the game at the moment because those shadows are ****ing distracting and I'm pretty sure those kind of problems scares away thousands of other buyers like me. Saying that it is something normal and irremediable because the game has dynamic lighting and trees with auto shadows does not do favors to the game. There are many games with dynamic lighting and it is the first time we see artifacts so evident in the trees. There's a point of arrogance in Ian's comments that does not do any good either and tends to produce the opposite effect to what he seeks.

But ey, that's my opinion.

Yeah, there are also slight digs from people asking the questions. I don't mind people's opinions. Some however, keep prodding as if he has to answer every question, right now! Some thinking it's their right to post things as they see fit with no tact. That's what I see, not misinterpret, from said posts.

We never got direct answers, from the other two 10+ year old games, about issues some of us continued to live with. If only we could have the chance to give those developers a piece of our minds. My point is, people still aren't grateful Ian bell is taking the time, to be among the people he wants to share his vision with. It's like, "You owe me an answer or I'm not buying your game.".

However, as Scaff pointed out, everyone play nice.

 

[Harry Freq]

You know you have a great racing game Ian when the biggest issue is shadows on trees! Well done!

You keep avoiding the super sampling question though for PS4 Pro owners - Is it in?

 

[Dresden]

The only disappointing part about a new game coming out is all these new members appearing out of nowhere. It would have been nice if they were participating in the six month buildup to release.

The more they try to 'goad' a reaction the more I want to buy the game.

These days no game is perfect at release. FM6 had poor in-car camera for many cars (the Hellcat was especially bad) and the audio was way off on many cars. And remember the state of Assetto Corsa on console at day 1? I am sure that SMS is running better quality control than the first game they released, and far better than their competitors too.

Let's wait for a patch and see what happens with the shadows.

 

[Scaff]

IGN Spain 87%

http://es.ign.com/project-cars-2-ps4/123459/review/project-cars-2-analisis-para-ps4-one-y-pc

Another Spanish Site: 9/10

https://areajugones.sport.es/project-cars-2-2/analisis/

 

[FuriousDemon]

Ok guys, I'm what you would call a "graphics nut". I have to have the best monitors, GPUs, 4k HDR TVs, Shield TVs, etc. I love watching eurogamers platform comparison videos just for fun. I religiously strive to max out every game. I paid more than launch price for Oculus Rift just to have it day 1. Just to give you some perspective.

Having said all that, I struggle to see how people are so upset about the shadows that it makes them not buy a racing game. Yes, I'm personally annoyed by it as I am with any graphical bugs in games, but this will not prevent me to buy a game if I think the game is good. I do hope this gets improved but it's not such a big deal like it's a show stopper.

 

[PzR Slim]

Ok guys, I'm what you would call a "graphics nut". I have to have the best monitors, GPUs, 4k HDR TVs, Shield TVs, etc. I love watching eurogamers platform comparison videos just for fun. I religiously strive to max out every game. I paid more than launch price for Oculus Rift just to have it day 1. Just to give you some perspective.

Having said all that, I struggle to see how people are so upset about the shadows that it makes them not buy a racing game. Yes, I'm personally annoyed by it as I am with any graphical bugs in games, but this will not prevent me to buy a game if I think the game is good. I do hope this gets improved but it's not such a big deal like it's a show stopper.

For many people style is more important that substance. We are constantly fed the line that graphics are everything and some poor souls buy that hook line and sinker. Of course they are important but not more important than the whole experience. Give me a top experience with slightly less graphical prowess over a beautiful looking game that lacks gameplay.

 

[gladbecker82]

You must be new here, otherwise you'd know that trees are by far the most important aspect of racing sims.

D'oh, tree'd!

Reminds me of PES/FIFA where what matters most is the goalnet moving properly

 

[fasj6418]

For many people style is more important that substance. We are constantly fed the line that graphics are everything and some poor souls buy that hook line and sinker. Of course they are important but not more important than the whole experience. Give me a top experience with slightly less graphical prowess over a beautiful looking game that lacks gameplay.

It still amazes me, considering how i feel like graphics these days are like a commodity and they are good enough.

I wake up to read the first reviews and all i see are people talking about shadows and stuff.

It never ceases to amaze me that little graphic details are always a good way to generate hundreds of posts about a racing game, when the racing itself is barely discussed.