Project CARS 3 Developer Blog Explains New Tire Physics, Confirms Pit Stops Are History

[FT-1]

They change magically and automatically to behave better. It is literally what they have said

Futuristic dynamic tyres that will automatically adapt itself to be a rain tyre when it rains and back to slicks if the track dries up.

Innovative technology... Borrowed from Forza Motorsport 7.

 

[flatspunout]

"Hitler finds out pit stops have been removed from Project CARS 3"

Internet, I'm counting on you

 

[evldave333]

I don't know where this "only hardcore sim racers want pits/tyre wear/fuel wear" notion comes from.

The F1 games feature these things, they are absolutely not sim games or aimed at sim racers. Codemasters games of old used to feature them, they were never sims. Forza and Gran Turismo has featured these things to varying degrees of realism, they're not sims. The list could go on.

Games can cater to everyone whilst still including these pretty basic features. Again, it's not like we're asking or expecting every single race to feature pit stops and nor is anyone expecting it to be forced on people.

You've also not explained why it couldn't be an option. It's not like we're talking about a new feature we want them develop, it's a feature already present in the previous games. If people enjoy races without these things great, they can race without them.

F1 has a delightfully simple auto pit stop procedure, and is easily accessible something that Project Cars abjectly fails in its old form. The elephant in the room is most driving game players want to be on track and not in menu's which is perceived as dull. You already have an anorak version of the game why should the majority of players be locked out of a franchise they might enjoy without all the setting up / stragtegy stuff simplified or removed. Codies do this well they offer sim rallying and casual rallying in separate franchises hopefully under their wing SMS will cater to both crowds in the future. Up until now PC has been sim only and its really selfish to think this is the only way a game can be made, its time a version of this game was made with mass appeal. The logical way forward is for them to diverge the title into pure sim and simcade titles that run concurrently very much like the dirt series has done. Offering options will not please either crowd as you can see from the apparent whining...

 

[Pedinhuh]

In this thread:

People arguing that racing simulators don't have to be realistic, and whoever demands realism on simulators is a elitist.

I admit that made me chuckle.

 

[dlshearon]

2020 where we take pitstops out of racing games...
What kind of world are we living in?

 

[macinos]

I really double checked if it isn´t April 1st. Unfortunately not.

Sorry SMS, it was a nice ride, but I´m off to some AC or anything that is still about racing.

 

[Samus]

F1 has a delightfully simple auto pit stop procedure, and is easily accessible something that Project Cars abjectly fails in its old form.

So the solution is to get rid of them entirely?

The elephant in the room is most driving game players want to be on track and not in menu's which is perceived as dull.

That may be true, but it still doesn't answer why it can't be an option for those who don't feel that way.

The F1 games can be played very differently. You can run races with full tyre and fuel wear, 100% race distance, full damage, full rules, do every practice session etc. Or you can run short races with none of that, no damage, limited rules, and have fun that way.

Modern games can easily cater to several crowds.

 

[Scaff]

I´m also a WMD member and supported the Pcars games with my money. And now theres a bit different Pcars game and not a 3rd one thats basicly the same again as the first 2... No problem for me... Looks like i´m "The One" lol

And do you not see why that could well be an issue for the series as a whole?

Where exactly is the audience for this? It’s not the current user base why are the ones questioning this (to a very high majority across every sim racing forum), and it’s not the casual audience who are already served by FM and GTS. Nor will an audience that doesn’t want to worry about fuel use, tyre wear or pit stops give a toss about the development of an improved (and then neutered) tyre model.

Right now this is a product with a target audience that is far from guaranteed, that has also managed to alienate a majority of its core base.

That’s a rather spectacular own goal, as unless thus is more polished than FM and GTS (which is a major ask) it’s not going to be getting much conquest business.

 

[greenlightning]

What a massive fail. Strategy is such a key part of real life racing, and you simply cannot go without it in a sim racer. This design choice is not only going to impact poorly on sales, but the reputation of the entire franchise. I'm not sure I can justify spending full price on a game that doesn't give me the sim racing elements I expect. I play Project Cars 2 because it's as close as I'll get to real-life racing, and now that they've changed it up for Project Cars 3, I'll no longer feel the same way. What a shame.

Definetly sounds like it will be a bargain bin pick-up at best. Even if it ends up being a decent or even somewhat good arcade racer w/perhaps more sim feel. Many whom already have played PC1/PC2 will pass on this one. Then if say PC4 came out in 2 or 3 years to be a true sequel. A lot of us will have moved on to something else - so why alienate your fan base.
Definetly not fair to those that helped contribute to PC1

 

[RustyCitroen]

April Fools!

Oh. It's June.

Christ. I feel awful for console players now.

 

[MagpieRacer]

In this thread:

People arguing that racing simulators don't have to be realistic, and whoever demands realism on simulators is a elitist.

I admit that made me chuckle.

Incorrect.

Demanding realism in a simulator is fine. Simulation has many different levels, this falls below some peoples expectations, it will similarly land above other expectations, for others it will be bang on.

Where I find this 'elitism' is coming in (note, only people I see using this term, are those people) is when people are being told, go play GTAV if you want no pitstops, or, this is just turning into Grid (which I guess is being used as an insult), if you dont want realism go play need for speed and all this rubbish.

There's a categorical failure for people to recognise a middle ground exists, why cant we have the racing action of Grid with a Forza like career mode and the driving dynamics of pCars? Why can't it be simplified a bit to attract more players and sell well instead of just the minority of die hard sim racers?

I've looked at both sides of the argument from day 1. I can see both sides of why decisions are being made and I get some people are upset about it. But the attacking is going both ways and one side is being far less reasonable.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Yes it is, an entire part of the tyre model is locked and will always be optimised, that is at the expense of the driving physics.

I'll reserve that judgement until I've played it. If they're simulating an optimal version of the core tyre then its not less simulated, its the build up to that point that has changed. I cant see that it would fundamentally change how thay car drives at that point. Its all theory until we get to play it.

 

[superwally]

This thread warms my heart. Sounds like the venerable PCars series is trying to dumb down to compete for the larger 'casual' portion of the player base. Wonder why?

For well over a year after the release of GT Sport, fans of PCars polluted every possible thread in the GT Sport section of these forums, to the point where I wondered openly if the most popular and influential poster was being paid by Ian to come here and stir the pot. Add in Ian's horribly arrogant personality (and that whole thing between him and Soulja Boy about vaporware consoles...how's that working out?) and I wouldn't have played PCars if it became the most popular driving game/sim series out there.

Nice to see them shoot themselves in the foot. Couldn't happen to a better guy.

 

[evldave333]

So the solution is to get rid of them entirely?
That may be true, but it still doesn't answer why it can't be an option for those who don't feel that way.

The F1 games can be played very differently. You can run races with full tyre and fuel wear, 100% race distance, full damage, full rules, do every practice session etc. Or you can run short races with none of that, no damage, limited rules, and have fun that way.

Modern games can easily cater to several crowds.

I agree about f1, but it has an intuitive front end and does not get bogged down in having bad set ups as default that need changing from the get go. F1 also has excellent pad set up which has been the main barrier to me getting any joy from PC2. Pitstops are just not a big issue, more of an inconvenience if anything to a casual player. I dont see why pitstops cant be an option, but at the same time its not the deal breaking issue that is being touted either. People have busy lives and snatch game time in-between more important daily life stuff, I think streamlining a game is a benefit. There are already 2 PC games that allow you to indulge the anorak stuff, its time for a change and im glad of it. Modern games can indeed cater to both crowds and I think Codies will steer SMS towards this (purely for business reasons), but so far SMS have not done this with the first 2 PC games.

 

[Benny44]

I'm pretty sure the "hardcore" sim racers are a very small audience. I bought PC2 for a couple of friends when it was on sale, but they just couldn't get into it. Basically, they felt it was inaccessible. This is the same group that I spent many many hours on GT5 and GT6 with.

They've played a little bit of GTS, but just a fraction of the time on there as previous titles. No buying parts, really online focused - at least with strangers, and very few options for playing with actual friends. I honestly think if they do this right the audience could be huge. They have an opportunity to steal a lot of long time GT fans on the PlayStation.

I didn't get exactly what I wanted. A lot here didn't with this announcement. It's ok to criticize that decision, but it's theirs to make. I used to come on GTplanet to have sensible conversations, but like most social media it's turning into a mob mentality and a bad environment. I just wish we could stop having temper tantrums because we didn't our way and try to talk positive a bit

 

[MagpieRacer]

This thread warms my heart. Sounds like the venerable PCars series is trying to dumb down to compete for the larger 'casual' portion of the player base. Wonder why?

For well over a year after the release of GT Sport, fans of PCars polluted every possible thread in the GT Sport section of these forums, to the point where I wondered openly if the most popular and influential poster was being paid by Ian to come here and stir the pot. Add in Ian's horribly arrogant personality (and that whole thing between him and Soulja Boy about vaporware consoles...how's that working out?) and I wouldn't have played PCars if it became the most popular driving game/sim series out there.

Nice to see them shoot themselves in the foot. Couldn't happen to a better guy.


View attachment 935464

That post I just made?

Here it is.

 

[MenocidiX]

Well... That's sad. Guess I'll just wait a bit longer for GT7.

 

[Scaff]

I'll reserve that judgement until I've played it. If they're simulating an optimal version of the core tyre then its not less simulated, its the build up to that point that has changed. I cant see that it would fundamentally change how thay car drives at that point. Its all theory until we get to play it.

How on earth can it not be simulating less when the entire build up to optimal core temp is skipped, and you run no risk of overheating or losing core tyre temperature.

That’s quite clearly less being simulated, nothing else it can be. If it will work is up for debate, that it simulates less isn’t.

 

[IfAndOr]

My goodness what a carry on!

I seemed to have missed the Tweet that says "When we release PC3 we are going to stop you playing PC2".

As a long time PC1 and 2 player PC3 at this moment still seems to be interesting to me. A fun easier to access racing game with good physics on PS4. And I'd still also have PC2 for my "Full Sim" experience. Best of both worlds. It seems that maybe SMS has still given me options.

PC3, buy it or don't. That's yet another option! But it's no use getting all worked up about it.


I always find it amusing when someone disagrees with some else's opinion then finishes with

If you don't care for seeing those opinions, perhaps a message board isn't the place for you.

 

[Ak1504]

Where exactly is the audience for this? It’s not the current user base why are the ones questioning this (to a very high majority across every sim racing forum), and it’s not the casual audience who are already served by FM and GTS.

I think theres no issue with 1,2 or even 3 more games beside FM and GTS...

The pc Sim market already has AC, ACC, Automobilista, Automobilista 2, iRacing, Project Cars 2, Rfactor 2, RaceRoom... So imo theres no need for another sim... And Pcars 2 is not that old or outdated that it really needs a new 3rd one now...

I think the Pcars3 target audience is a way bigger group then the sim fans are... Afaik booth Shift games were a very huge success for SMS... And its already 9 years since the last one so i think they are doing the right thing here...

 

[MagpieRacer]

How on earth can it not be simulating less when the entire build up to optimal core temp is skipped, and you run no risk of overheating or losing core tyre temperature.

That’s quite clearly less being simulated, nothing else it can be. If it will work is up for debate, that it simulates less isn’t.

I'm just looking at it a different way. 👍

 

[evldave333]

Where exactly is the audience for this? Nor will an audience that doesn’t want to worry about fuel use, tyre wear or pit stops give a toss about the development of an improved (and then neutered) tyre model.

Right now this is a product with a target audience that is far from guaranteed

Im sure they've looked at the success of Forza and GT and want a slice, I for one have been itching to drive the superb track selection of PC, but have been denied entry by an obtuse controller set up and overly complicated set up processes. I think you will find this game will appeal more to the Forza and GT player base than the previous titles did, and will garner higher sales as a result. What is guaranteed is the small minority of sim players would generate less sales and money is what its all about for good or bad.

 

[fernandito]

2020 where we take pitstops out of racing games...
What kind of world are we living in?

In the same one where the dictatorship of political correctness and their poorly educated uncultivated illiterate dogs want statues of the likes of Cristobal Colón; Hernán Cortés; Winston Churchill and George Washington among others to be taken down.

You know. Maybe there exists some sort of parallel relationship between what it looks like very two different cases, such as the stripping of key racing features+ magical tyres off what is supposed to be a simulator resulting in modern "innovation" or "modernization", and the purging of our own history and legacy resulting in a more happy though stupid modern society that wants to forget about its past, worse even feels shame of his glorious past (Spain, UK, USA)

Have SMS gone mad too?, supposedly they've adopted the right decision in what it comes to more $$$$incoming from the game, but I'd say that we shall see about that, as games like Driveclub; GT and Forza exist for a reason with a very faithful base of consumers.

 

[Nielsen]

I don’t care what SMS is saying at this point. It’s manipulative damage control jargon.

 

[Sam714]

Im sure they've looked at the success of Forza and GT and want a slice, I for one have been itching to drive the superb track selection of PC, but have been denied entry by an obtuse controller set up and overly complicated set up processes. I think you will find this game will appeal more to the Forza and GT player base than the previous titles did, and will garner higher sales as a result. What is guaranteed is the small minority of sim players would generate less sales and money is what its all about for good or bad.

Having a simple Option in a menu saying 'Pitstops On/Off" really holds new players back from buying the game and the game becoming the next Forza, nonsense. They took out pit stops to send a clear signal to their core base that this isn't the game for you

 

[fernandito]

Having a simple Option in a menu saying 'Pitstops On/Off" really holds new players back from buying the game and the game becoming the next Forza, nonsense. They took out pit stops to send a clear signal to their core base that this isn't the game for you

Not to mention that if they, for the third time haven't nailed the pad controls then the game won't be the success they expect, because this time they want a more casual quick popcorn experience, right?, they better off have made the controller work well this time then, otherwise...

 

[Zeitoss]

New twitter post from Nathan Bell:

Pit stops is removed very early on in development, pitchforks pointing at Codemasters should now be aim back to Slightly Mad Studios.

It is their game, so they can develop as they want.
They can even design the cars to be like large pumpkins, if this is their idea of simulating racing.

They can also stress themselves try to convince us that innovation means having large pumpkins instead of GT3 cars.

Point is, as customers we have the strongest weapon in our hands, which is not buying every crap is released and keep playing the ol' good games until a new good one comes out.

This will make them understand of their BS much more efficiently than million of words on a forum.

And I really hope this will be the case.

 

[Rob192005]

Yeah,count me out then, I have 2 anyway,I never did finish it.

 

[Chikane_GTR]

After a full day after this news to think and read up i'm starting to wonder if i'm even gonna buy the game and that's something i would have never thought i would even suggest to myself when it came to pcars 3.

 

[Zeitoss]

Im sure they've looked at the success of Forza and GT and want a slice, I for one have been itching to drive the superb track selection of PC, but have been denied entry by an obtuse controller set up and overly complicated set up processes. I think you will find this game will appeal more to the Forza and GT player base than the previous titles did, and will garner higher sales as a result. What is guaranteed is the small minority of sim players would generate less sales and money is what its all about for good or bad.

Ironically, Poly moved towards introducing these features in their games.

Also, Poly and Turn10 are 200+ staff teams, with production values that SMS can only dream, full economic support from Sony and MS, and a marketing approach unknown to any other racing game developer.

If SMS think to mimic GT or Forza (which in the meanwhile are evolving towards more realism) is enough to replicate their success, then they are screwed.