Project CARS 3 Developer Blog Explains New Tire Physics, Confirms Pit Stops Are History

[Scaff]

So your premise is that folks only drive one driving game in blind loyalty, I like most driving games myself and will give PC3 a chance and still play all the other driving games I own. Everyone likes variety dont they? Tapping into a larger market is not detrimental. This trivial news about dull pit stops and tyres is good news to players of those titles as they are not core elements of GT or Forza, and where implemented by those games are little used...

A large percentage of GT buyers play for a very short period of time and do not continue playing at all (the stats around this have been discussed endlessly), no certainty exists that they will capture a significant share of that audience, and those missing elements that you claim are not used much are still present (and in GTS used in Sport mode)!

 

[Brzlav]

I am confused by how many people here are thinking that the developers actually believe that the racing is going to profit by cutting away pit stops. Certainly they know better. But for some reason, the game needs to be rushed to market (remember that we didn't expect it to come out this year) and they therefore had to cut features to get the game to a barely finished state. I am expecting a heavily bugged release version and will steer clear of this title.

Codemasters seemingly only bought SMS for its staff (including the former Evolution Studios employees) and the collective experience they represent. Meanwhile, Project CARS 3 was already in development and cancellation was not an option as Bandai Namco is a stakeholder in the title. So instead they’re just getting Project CARS 3 out of the way as fast as possible, and eventually SMS staff can be allocated to the teams developing Grid, F1 and DiRT. More talent for Codemasters and more market share for their own trademarks long-term.

That sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Bloodytears]

Don't forget who will suffer the most if you'll not buy this game - Bandai Namco. They don't deserve this!

 

[Divaldo]

The lack of pit stops is not an issue for me I like the emphasis to be on making a pass on track rather than winning it with strategy ( i really dislike it in f1 races when a pass is done because of the undercut ). I doubt this new game will be a whole lot different to the second entry so for those who want strategic races they already well catered for with PC2.

I did not get it...if it rains in the middle of the race, I wonder if we can stop to chance to rainy tyres.

 

[Moby45]

They completely missed the spirit of racing, yet want to focus on a better racing experience...?? Driving is just one part of racing, it's a team sport after all.
How can this dumbed down game claim to have a better racing experience when it only focuses on a small part? I don't understand any of the decisions

While I don't like the fact pit stops are not in the game and can be a stupid move on their part. You are a little off base too.

"The spirit of racing" that you are talking about should be "the spirit of endurance racing".

Every type of racing that is not endurance type of racing(see sprint racing formats) do not do pit stops and the spirit of racing is still very much alive.

Examples for you:
BTCC
Porsche GT3 Cup
Ferrari Challenge
Rallycross
Short Course Off Road Racing
Dirt oval races
Any Club level road course racing(SCCA and NASA in America)
World Challenge GT/TC/TCA
Spec MX5 cup

So on and so forth.



Yes I agree that taking pit stops out is pretty stupid and it takes a lot out of what could be a good game. But they didn't take out the "spirit of racing".


Edit: Took off Super Trofeo series. They do actually pit.

 

[ROFFATI]

I already have a plan. I’ll do it, like i did it with AssettoCorsaCompetizione. I’ll order it via Amazon, try it, and if it sucks like ACC, i send it back the next day. It is somehow sad how things are turning for console players like me. I don’t want to play any GT title any more, ‘cos i don’t want to waste time to grind for cars i want to use in online races. And now ProjectCars seams to be turned in to the same crap. I’ll probably go back to PC gaming than. I’ts so sad ‘cos i love the plug and play of a console and that a game you buy simply just works on the device instead if pumping up your PC for hundreds of bucks.

 

[Ak1504]

British GT (GT3, GT4) runs alot 1h races in which they do not pit too...

 

[Scaff]

I did not get it...if it rains in the middle of the race, I wonder if we can stop to chance to rainy tyres.

They will change to wets while you are driving, by magic, I’m not joking.

While I don't like the fact pit stops are not in the game and can be a stupid move on their part. You are a little off base too.

"The spirit of racing" that you are talking about should be "the spirit of endurance racing".

Every type of racing that is not endurance type of racing(see sprint racing formats) do not do pit stops and the spirit of racing is still very much alive.

Examples for you:
BTCC
Porsche GT3 Cup
Lamborghini Super Trofeo
Ferrari Challenge
Rallycross
Short Course Off Road Racing
Dirt oval races
Any Club level road course racing(SCCA and NASA in America)
World Challenge GT/TC/TCA
Spec MX5 cup

So on and so forth.



Yes I agree that taking pit stops out is pretty stupid and it takes a lot out of what could be a good game. But they didn't take out the "spirit of racing".

They don’t have mandatory pit stops, but they can still pit, which they do if the weather changes.

They all also experience tyre wear and fuel use and not a single one has magic tyres that change while you are driving!

 

[Scaff]

British GT (GT3, GT4) runs alot 1h races in which they do not pit too...

Except they do, in every race!

“PITSTOP AND DRIVE-TIME REGULATIONS
In races lasting one hour the top three finishers in each class from the previous round must respectively serve an additional 10, 7, 5 econd success penalty during their mandatory pit-stop. During races lasting two hours or longer the top three finishers in each class from the previous round must respectively serve an additional 20, 15 and 10-second success penalty during their mandatory pit-stop.

Competitors must make at least one pit-stop during all British GT races. During the Silverstone 500, the season's only three-hour race, competitors must make three mandatory pit stops.”

https://www.britishgt.com/about/british-gt

 

[Senna52]

British GT (GT3, GT4) runs alot 1h races in which they do not pit too...

This is not true.

I can understand why some are fine with this decision. I can’t understand why those same people can’t understand why others wanted the option.

 

[Chikane_GTR]

This is not true.

I can understand why some are fine with this decision. I can’t understand why those same people can’t understand why others wanted the option.

Cause there way is the only way that matters.

That's why Ak1504 is trying so hard to push his agenda.

I for one wanted pcars 3 to be a better version of pcars 2 and not a grid/nfs/shift clone.

 

[AudiMan2011]

Lamborghini Super Trofeo

Super Trofeo has pit stops for mandatory driver changes.
https://squadracorse.lamborghini.co...s/dam/SUPERTROFEO/racing_rules_pdf/EUROPE.pdf

 

[killerjimbag]

Well see ya later PCars. The dumbest decision imaginable.

 

[Zeitoss]

I'm speaking more as in what they have to look forward too. Granted current gen is more or less over, won't be much longevity outside of single player. Unless AMS2 comes to consoles, there doesn't seem to be much that can fill the "sim" void in the future.

This whole thing kinda further ignites the debate, next gen console or PC for sim racers?

This is more a 'PC vs Console' rant, rather than a talk about PC3.

Developers don't see the different platforms as competing systems (as we usually do), but as parts of a bigger system, where all parts relate to each other and influence each other development.

Honestly, I think this console gen reached its performance peak in 2017-2018, and the last two years the games were pretty much keeping this performance peak.

Unfortunately this gen has probably been at least one year longer than it should have been.
And this is particularly evident in sim racing games, which are often the most demanding games for a system (resource-wise).

When next gen consoles will launch, they will reset the current limitations and increase/expand the possibilities for the developers and the users, with more TF but mainly with finally good CPU power.

Think about the possibilities given by SSD storage. It is certainly already a thing for PC users, but how many PCs do have a SSD now? 5-10%?
When XsX and PS5 will launch, all their games will be based on 100% user base having this feature.

So, hopefully the process of bringing real innovations will start again.
And the PC will benefit as well.

 

[evldave333]

A large percentage of GT buyers play for a very short period of time and do not continue playing at all (the stats around this have been discussed endlessly), no certainty exists that they will capture a significant share of that audience, and those missing elements that you claim are not used much are still present (and in GTS used in Sport mode)!

How long people play a game is irrelevant to what we were discussing, indeed nothing is certain about a market my balls are not crystal, it is fair to postulate that copying a market leader will help to bring success. Indeed endurance racing with tyre strategies is still in GT Sport but is the least used aspect of it Im not sure what your point is?

 

[Johnnypenso]

It's pretty obvious that SMS gathered customer data and determined that most people were only sprint racing and are just trying to appeal to the broadest base of players. I didn't race a lot online in PC2 but I don't recall a single open lobby that ever had a mandatory pit stop and pretty much all races were in the 10-20 minute range same as all the racing sims I've played over the years. Almost all the racing in open public lobbies in every game I've played is sprint racing sans pitstops. It's only in organized leagues and offline career racing that you find pitstops and I'd guess that the vast, vast majority of players in every game never use the pitstop feature more than a handful of times.

 

[Zeitoss]

British GT (GT3, GT4) runs alot 1h races in which they do not pit too...

Why do you guys say things not true in order to justify a terrible design idea?

GT3 / GT4 and Super Trofeo have pit stops.

 

[Tool1312]

How will dynamic rain work then. Lets say I have a 10 lap race and on lap three heavy rain starts, how would I change from full slicks to rain tyres? Not a good move imo.

That's something I'd not thought about. Good point.
It's one thing to have the option to choose fuel wear etc on or not, but to remove them is a backward step.
It's trashing over the reason PCars existed in the first place

 

[Zeitoss]

It's pretty obvious that SMS gathered customer data and determined that most people were only sprint racing and are just trying to appeal to the broadest base of players. I didn't race a lot online in PC2 but I don't recall a single open lobby that ever had a mandatory pit stop and pretty much all races were in the 10-20 minute range same as all the racing sims I've played over the years. Almost all the racing in open public lobbies in every game I've played is sprint racing sans pitstops. It's only in organized leagues and offline career racing that you find pitstops and I'd guess that the vast, vast majority of players in every game never use the pitstop feature more than a handful of times.

But again, there is a middle line between having MANDATORY pit-stops, and removing the option of pit-stops at all.

Scaff has been very clear.
They are removing an option, a possibility for the users.

 

[Scaff]

How long people play a game is irrelevant to what we were discussing, indeed nothing is certain about a market my balls are not crystal, it is fair to postulate that copying a market leader will help to bring success.

It’s actually quite relevant, it means the audience for lite sums is smaller than pure sales may suggest, if they don’t stick with GTS what is to say they would be in the market for another title that does less?

Indeed endurance racing with tyre strategies is still in GT Sport but is the least used aspect of it Im not sure what your point is?

Citation required on it being the least used part of the whole title and the point is that it’s a feature that PC3 doesn’t have, for those that do use it it’s a potential block to a sale.


Rarely does removing features become a selling point, particularly when they are as key to a lot of people as fuel use and tyre wear.

 

[flatspunout]

the vast, vast majority of players in every game never use the pitstop feature more than a handful of times.

If you play PC2, you start EVERY practice and qualy session from......hmm....where do you start from? Magically fall out of the sky?

 

[Corsa]

Think about the possibilities given by SSD storage. It is certainly already a thing for PC users, but how many PCs do have a SSD now? 5-10%?

In 2017 it was north of 30%.
I run both in my build.

I just can’t wrap my head around LeMans with no fuel calculations or pits.

Maybe I’ve taken sim racing too far and forget how to have fun?

I do think this time around I will wait for video and reviews from a select honest few around here. No more hype.

 

[evldave333]

It’s actually quite relevant, it means the audience for lite sums is smaller than pure sales may suggest, if they don’t stick with GTS what is to say they would be in the market for another title that does less?

Citation required on it being the least used part of the whole title and the point is that it’s a feature that PC3 doesn’t have, for those that do use it it’s a potential block to a sale.

Rarely does removing features become a selling point, particularly when they are as key to a lot of people as fuel use and tyre wear.

Removing features and streamlining the game will rarely increase sales certainly not with the sim crowd granted... but when the sim crowd are a minority the opposite is true. Im not sure how you can say that Project Cars "does less" it is unique and has the best track roster.. Removing a minor feature such as pit-stops and streamlining it for broader appeal is a positive for casual gamers and there are more of them, thus its good business. Im sure SMS have analysed their user data and chose what is the most relevant for this new entry. You dont have to like the changes and have two sim orientated titles to savour already from SMS & dont forget the scintillating fast and furious is only weeks away ;-)

 

[Scaff]

Removing features and streamlining the game will rarely increase sales certainly not with the sim crowd granted... but when the sim crowd are a minority the opposite is true. Im not sure how you can say that Project Cars "does less" it is unique and has the best track roster.. Removing a minor feature such as pit-stops and streamlining it for broader appeal is a positive for casual gamers and there are more of them, thus its good business. Im sure SMS have analysed their user data and chose what is the most relevant for this new entry. You dont have to like the changes and have two sim orientated titles to savour already from SMS & dont forget the scintillating fast and furious is only weeks away ;-)

Tyre wear, fuel use and pit stops are not minor features for a good core of the base, no matter how many times you say that it’s not going to change.

Removing them clearly is offering less, and we were told that PC3 would be ‘all the sim you want’, that claim has clearly backfired, as has this one from earlier this week.

So tell me all the old school, hardcore sim racers and been here since day 1 lining up for this? As right now, across every sim racing forum, they are putting clear distance between themselves and PC3.

SMS have screwed up on this and seriously misjudged what they listed as target audience only days ago (that post is from the 24th June), this smack of insular development at its worse, and bull****ing people about it hadn’t helped at all.

I mean have you seriously not noticed the trend here at GT Planet alone, take a trip around other forums, it’s no different at all.

 

[gregc]

Removing features and streamlining the game will rarely increase sales certainly not with the sim crowd granted... but when the sim crowd are a minority the opposite is true. Im not sure how you can say that Project Cars "does less" it is unique and has the best track roster.. Removing a minor feature such as pit-stops and streamlining it for broader appeal is a positive for casual gamers and there are more of them, thus its good business. Im sure SMS have analysed their user data and chose what is the most relevant for this new entry. You dont have to like the changes and have two sim orientated titles to savour already from SMS & dont forget the scintillating fast and furious is only weeks away ;-)

There was nothing stopping SMS from developing their magic tyres and having fuel use & tyre wear off by default for the casual player, and including a toggle for Sim Mode that opens up all the extra goodies (including pitstops) for the rest of us. Win-win - the casuals never have to even see the scary Sim stuff, and as a bonus, if they find themselves getting more serious, it's all there just waiting for them.

Instead SMS have decided to throw the baby out with the bathwater and alienate their entire core audience. Fine, that's their call and it's their game, but whatever sales PC3 does achieve, it will be less than it might have if they had thought about options.

 

[letsdothis97]

That's something I'd not thought about. Good point.
It's one thing to have the option to choose fuel wear etc on or not, but to remove them is a backward step.
It's trashing over the reason PCars existed in the first place

Exactly, how is it any different from grid at this point.

 

[Wolfe]

This thread moved fast overnight, so this post is from a while back but I owe it a response:

Tell me you are joking, please.

Unless you are happy of the following scenario:
"Ok, let's start a race in a sunny day but some clouds are forecast to come in a while. Dry tire (compound does not matter anymore, but who cares). Holy ****, after few laps starts raining. I have 4 laps left, what I could do? Pit and mount the intermediate/wet, or keep cruising with the dry tires and see how it goes? Ah no wait, the pitstop are history now, so I bet is dry until the end".

And, dynamic weather ceases to have a reason.

That is a leap of logic I can't follow.

In what way do you need to pit and change tires to experience the reduction in traction on wet surfaces? What does pitting have to do with admiring the visual effects of a rain-soaked track on a beautiful Autumn evening as rainclouds dissipate into a sunset with light clouds? What does pitting have to do with drifting around a snow-blanketed track as a blizzard rolls in? Why is pitting necessary to enjoy the thrill of chasing the pack into a wall of spray with your wipers going nuts trying to maintain visibility?

Pitstops are pitstops. Dynamic weather is dynamic weather. You can have either without the other -- even if it involves the weird design choice of magical transforming tires. I drive into rain without pitting to change to wet tires on a regular basis -- in real life. Driving into rain without stopping first is a thing. Driving into a blizzard without any pitlane around is a thing.

There is plenty reason to still have dynamic weather even if there are no pitstops, and PCARS3 would hardly be the first game to do it.

It seems so strange that there is nobody in the racing SIM market trying to "please everyone" (even if they failed).

If we set aside this whole pitstop debacle for a moment, there are many individuals in the sim racing community who whine and complain about anything that dares to try to please everyone -- see the reactions to adding more roadcars, performance upgrades and customization, currency-/XP-based gameplay or any such off-track gameplay mechanics, a video showcase of drift physics, fictional/street tracks, optional "perfect corner" etc. objectives for extra rewards...

On the consumers' end, things are kind of caught between a sim racing elite who cry "no fun allowed!" and a mass market that is predominantly uninterested and uninitiated in realistic handling physics and details. I have long waited for a game that bridges the gap, being a more complete game like Forza or traditional Gran Turismo but with more realistic handling physics like PCARS2 or AC.

I thought PCARS3 could be making a good push in that direction, but I didn't expect this kind of compromise.

 

[evldave333]

There was nothing stopping SMS from developing their magic tyres and having fuel use & tyre wear off by default for the casual player, and including a toggle for Sim Mode that opens up all the extra goodies (including pitstops) for the rest of us. Win-win - the casuals never have to even see the scary Sim stuff, and as a bonus, if they find themselves getting more serious, it's all there just waiting for them.

Instead SMS have decided to throw the baby out with the bathwater and alienate their entire core audience. Fine, that's their call and it's their game, but whatever sales PC3 does achieve, it will be less than it might have if they had thought about options.

I think the sales will be the proof of the pudding, I guess we will wait and see. would have temper that slightly against the fact that millions more consoles have been sold since PC2 dropped too. I like the passion for the series that you sim guys have, its something I dont yet have, but im looking forward to the new game with enthusiasm. My main issue is the control set up so hopefully its addressed this time around. I think it says something about the sim community that you struggle to embrace change, there could well be some enjoyment to be had here regardless of how you feel about pit stops and tyres. This potentially could be a sweet game and whole giving up before you try seems a bit premature to me.

 

[Senna52]

Removing features and streamlining the game will rarely increase sales certainly not with the sim crowd granted... but when the sim crowd are a minority the opposite is true. Im not sure how you can say that Project Cars "does less" it is unique and has the best track roster.. Removing a minor feature such as pit-stops and streamlining it for broader appeal is a positive for casual gamers and there are more of them, thus its good business. Im sure SMS have analysed their user data and chose what is the most relevant for this new entry. You dont have to like the changes and have two sim orientated titles to savour already from SMS & dont forget the scintillating fast and furious is only weeks away ;-)

Let’s just say that you’re correct (which I still doubt).

What is the negative for PCars3 if they have pit stops, but also have the option to not have stops and use the Hogwarts tires?

I can easily tell you what the positives are, but I think you’ll struggle to tell me the negatives.

 

[Sam714]

I find it hilarious that they say pit stops, tyres etc all detract from 'racing' yet the whole new system they have integrated is a menu screen where you sit fitting imaginary parts such as turbos, springs, wheel rims to your car to upgrade its car score so you can go 'faster'. So that's what they call fun and does not detract from 'racing' a menu screen where you can add car parts and compare dry stat numbers of parts but a pit stop in a custom race that has you sweating deciding when to pit or for what tyres and and your competitor breathing down your neck is not 'racing'