Project CARS 3 Developer Blog Explains New Tire Physics, Confirms Pit Stops Are History

[Johnnypenso]

But again, there is a middle line between having MANDATORY pit-stops, and removing the option of pit-stops at all.

Scaff has been very clear.
They are removing an option, a possibility for the users.

I understand what they are doing but again, in my experience online, it was pretty much never used outside of leagues and in career mode. Like a lot of real "hardcore" sim features, the appeal is to a very niche audience, most of which are hanging out here and in other sim racing forums. We have the loudest voices but we are definitely a very tiny minority.

If you play PC2, you start EVERY practice and qualy session from......hmm....where do you start from? Magically fall out of the sky?

And you may still do the same thing in PC2 because pitstop =/= starting from the pits. Two different things.

It's very clear they are trying to appeal to the casual gamer and hoping to snare in a portion of the hardcore sim racers that will also enjoy the massive car and track roster. I'd probably pick the game up after a couple of months if the inevitable bugs are sorted out just for the pick up and play casual racing and the access to a large car roster. Another big plus, I assume, is the native triple screen support, which appeals to me. PCars2 was super optimized for triples and ran beautifully for me with great frame rates on high settings.

Meanwhile, there are other options available like ACC for a more lifelike experience.

 

[phillgt2002]

snip

A penso post? Been a while.

I agree. The competitive part of tire wear was useless in multiplayer, and the pit stops were a nuisance because it jeopardizes track position for no gain.

As @McLaren said, it’s strange that they completely got rid of it instead of just making two options.

 

[Brzlav]

And you may still do the same thing in PC2 because pitstop =/= starting from the pits. Two different things.

The assumption that there could potentially be no pit stops came from the trailer that showed a blocked pit entry in Interlagos. It is therefore fair to assume that practice sessions will not be starting in the pits either now that "no pit stops" is official.

 

[Moby45]

Super Trofeo has pit stops for mandatory driver changes.
https://squadracorse.lamborghini.co...s/dam/SUPERTROFEO/racing_rules_pdf/EUROPE.pdf

 

[Northstar]

They don't in America. Sorry for the confusion.

They actually do.

 

[Tool1312]

I am not arguing people who are disappointed in this decision. I can understand that. It's just my opinion. I like the daily races B over the daily races C in GT Sport, just for that reason.

Different game MODES.
( See what I did there?)

 

[Tool1312]

“We don’t know how many SMS has planned, but that fact that the first article there is “#1” is a pretty good sign that this is due to be a reasonably lengthy endeavour.“

I’ll have a guess thanks,

Next article will be called Downforce, you don’t need it so we’re removing it.

Next week we’ll talk open borders with the new non existent penalty system.

Project cars 3. Open world. Why drive on track when you can turn out of the gates and go cross country?
That'll be next ffs

 

[Moby45]

They actually do.

I apologize then. I wasn't there in 2019. My bad I guess they do now lol.


Ok well with that mistake I will go edit my comment.

 

[Sam714]

....

 

[c172fccc]

The game lead designer of PCars 3 was the lead on MStorm (flop) OnRush (flop) and Grid (flop) and they have now left PCars 3 2 months before release, says all that needs to be said really...

Motorstorm wasn’t a flop, Driveclub arguably wasn’t a flop, he has not work on GRID and he’s still working at SMS.

Do you even care about facts?

 

[Sam714]

Motorstorm wasn’t a flop, Driveclub arguably wasn’t a flop, he has not work on GRID and he’s still working at SMS.

Do you even care about facts?

That version of Motorstorm was, google it, drive club was hence the big deal in it getting canned early and on his twitter page he announced his leaving of SMS

 

[c172fccc]

Motorstorm was google it, drive club was hence it big deal in it getting canned early and on his twitter page he announced his leaving of SMS

Paul is leaving, he was the game director. Kris hasn’t announced anything.

 

[Sam714]

Paul is leaving, he was the game director. Kris hasn’t announced anything.

Sorry I was under the impression they were both leaving hence the 'they' in my post. Still a flop lead designer and that combined with game director leaving says all it needs to especially with the comments towards the game. I have never seen a racing game lighting up here, Reddit and Youtube with the amount of bad comments wow

 

[evldave333]

Let’s just say that you’re correct (which I still doubt).

What is the negative for PCars3 if they have pit stops, but also have the option to not have stops and use the Hogwarts tires?

I can easily tell you what the positives are, but I think you’ll struggle to tell me the negatives.

I concur having the choice is definitely better, I would say not having the choice and being forced into doing stops and strategy might be off putting for casuals and vice versa fun for the strategists. Its on SMS to make this arbitrary decision, however I can understand their motives in doing so to attract players and grow revenue.

 

[c172fccc]

Sorry I was under the impression they were both leaving hence the 'they' in my post. Still a flop lead designer and that combined with game director leaving says all it needs to especially with the comments towards the game. I have never seen a racing game lighting up here, Reddit and Youtube with the amount of bad comments wow

Motorstorm Pacific Rift and Driveclub are both one of my favorite racing games. I don’t really care if they failed commercially or not, both of these game were awesome and I think it shows that Evolution Studio was an incredibly talented studio.

 

[Nielsen]

It's pretty obvious that SMS gathered customer data and determined that most people were only sprint racing and are just trying to appeal to the broadest base of players. I didn't race a lot online in PC2 but I don't recall a single open lobby that ever had a mandatory pit stop and pretty much all races were in the 10-20 minute range same as all the racing sims I've played over the years. Almost all the racing in open public lobbies in every game I've played is sprint racing sans pitstops. It's only in organized leagues and offline career racing that you find pitstops and I'd guess that the vast, vast majority of players in every game never use the pitstop feature more than a handful of times.

While possibly true, one thing I really like about Project CARS 2 is the fact it allows players to do nearly whatever they want. As pointed out a myriad of times in this thread already, PCARS 2 is very customizable and one of its main selling points. With this less is more approach they are positioning themselves so strangely in the market, especially when accessible pitlanes are commonplace in mainstream racing games.

 

[flatspunout]

The curb situation really jangles my jimmies. Anyone who pointed out the curbs of death was immediately shouted down and told "working as intended, yOu JuST neEd tO aDjUsT yOUr dIfF sEtTinGs". Now SMS are telling us they fixed the curbs to try and sell us the new game.

 

[evldave333]

Tyre wear, fuel use and pit stops are not minor features for a good core of the base, no matter how many times you say that it’s not going to change.

Removing them clearly is offering less, and we were told that PC3 would be ‘all the sim you want’, that claim has clearly backfired, as has this one from earlier this week.

So tell me all the old school, hardcore sim racers and been here since day 1 lining up for this? As right now, across every sim racing forum, they are putting clear distance between themselves and PC3.

SMS have screwed up on this and seriously misjudged what they listed as target audience only days ago (that post is from the 24th June), this smack of insular development at its worse, and bull****ing people about it hadn’t helped at all.

I mean have you seriously not noticed the trend here at GT Planet alone, take a trip around other forums, it’s no different at all.

The "core of the base" is the problem (not the features...) there's simply not enough of you... A loud minority is still a minority. You're anger is understandable but laced with selfishness, what of the folks who would potentially like this game but are put off by the features you hold so dear? Its pure self interest to think games are only made for your narrow set of parameters and that these views are held by everybody in the gaming community. I wont however defend SMS on their promises, oh hell no lol (still waiting on that improved controller support they promised for PC2)

 

[Senna52]

I concur having the choice is definitely better, I would say not having the choice and being forced into doing stops and strategy might be off putting for casuals and vice versa fun for the strategists. Its on SMS to make this arbitrary decision, however I can understand their motives in doing so to attract players and grow revenue.

That’s the point though, they’ve already shown they can do all these things. By removing choice, they only cut the possible player base. How do you grow your player base and create new revenue, when you narrow the scope? They could have created the changing tires and short races with no stops, while leaving the other features and grown the possible player base. Bafflingly, they’ve chosen not to.

Funnily enough, I run iRacing, RF2, ACC, and occasionally pCars2 (I bought several copies, for myself and friends so we could have an Indycar league without them investing in iRacing). When I want quick and fun races without a ton of effort, I hop on PS and play GT Sport. Why? Because I can do what I want: pit stops, no pit stops, long races, short races, endurance, track day at Nord, and so on. I should be their target market for console, but I won’t touch it because they haven’t given me options, they’ve straight jacketed their own game.

 

[Scaff]

The "core of the base" is the problem (not the features...) there's simply not enough of you... A loud minority is still a minority. You're anger is understandable but laced with selfishness, what of the folks who would potentially like this game but are put off by the features you hold so dear? Its pure self interest to think games are only made for your narrow set of parameters and that these views are held by everybody in the gaming community. I wont however defend SMS on their promises, oh hell no lol

No one from the core has suggested making these features mandatory for all events, we have always called for them to be optional.

That’s the exact opposite of only wanting a narrow set of features forced on people, and if these features are so off putting why has GTS managed to sell so well after all it has all of them?

 

[breyzipp]

Hate to say it, but I told you so. The moment I saw that perfect corner nonsense in de UI, I knew the game would be watered down to an arcade game to sell to the masses. Now that pitstops are gone, it only confirms that. "But...but... the game has all these improved PC2 sim elements under the hood". Big deal, Forza Horizon has Motorsport DNA under the hood as well and it's way more arcade than Motorsport (which on its turn is more arcade than sim already anyway).

PC3 has been Codemastered. I'm done with that company after GRID disaster. The only game coming from the studio that would interest me is Dirt rally 3.0 since that seems to be the only thing they do well.

 

[Senna52]

The "core of the base" is the problem (not the features...) there's simply not enough of you... A loud minority is still a minority. You're anger is understandable but laced with selfishness, what of the folks who would potentially like this game but are put off by the features you hold so dear? Its pure self interest to think games are only made for your narrow set of parameters and that these views are held by everybody in the gaming community. I wont however defend SMS on their promises, oh hell no lol (still waiting on that improved controller support they promised for PC2)

They’re not narrow parameters. It’s the ability to do many things as I’ve explained above. SMS has pigeon holed themselves. GT Sport has sold 8 million copies by being able to cater to both crowds. I see it said often that only 17-18% of those 8 million play the Sport (more sim-like section). That’s 1.4 (ish) million people. On one console.

 

[Pedinhuh]

Incorrect.

Demanding realism in a simulator is fine. Simulation has many different levels, this falls below some peoples expectations, it will similarly land above other expectations, for others it will be bang on.

The moment the game stops having pitstops and actual simulation of adverse conditions during a race, it stops being a complete simulation game.

It's not only falling under the expectations of MANY people(and not just "some" as you're suggesting) who happened to be their customers, it's starting to ditch the market that consumes realistic racing games to focus on the casual market that is more focused on game sales and a supposedly more focused gameplay.

Regardless, it's alienating their core audience in favor of appealing to another audience that is not known for being the ones who supported them.

Where I find this 'elitism' is coming in (note, only people I see using this term, are those people) is when people are being told, go play GTAV if you want no pitstops, or, this is just turning into Grid (which I guess is being used as an insult), if you dont want realism go play need for speed and all this rubbish.

Fair, but again we gotta remember that the main audience of this game series was the crowd of racers who prefers realism and accuracy to fancy drifts and "fun" driving mechanics, like dry tires that automatically turn into wet tires, negating the entire point dynamic weather.

And I don't see what's so bad or insulting about calling this game of "GRID". I'd see it as more insulting to try to call it a racing simulator. Maybe you're reading too much into it, I guess.

There's a categorical failure for people to recognise a middle ground exists, why cant we have the racing action of Grid with a Forza like career mode and the driving dynamics of pCars? Why can't it be simplified a bit to attract more players and sell well instead of just the minority of die hard sim racers?

Maybe because the main supporters of this racing game series ARE the die-hard sim racers who doesn't happen to have the resources to get a PC to play iRacing or don't want to have their gameplay sessions limited exclusively to racecar like in ACC?

Plus it's not like we don't have a bunch of games on the market trying to stay in the middle between simulation and arcade already...

I've looked at both sides of the argument from day 1. I can see both sides of why decisions are being made and I get some people are upset about it. But the attacking is going both ways and one side is being far less reasonable

Le both sides...

One side might be less reasonable for you, but it doesn't mean that said side is being any less justified in general, specially when one of the sides is the one side being the most affected on this issue.

Accessible hardcore simulators are becoming a dying breed in the latest years in favor of the casual market, we have noticed that trend and we don't like it, that is why we are not enjoying the news of another racing simulator franchise steering towards the casual market and alienating their own supporters.

 

[Slapped]

I haven't gone through this entire thread so if this argument has already been put forward then please forgive me.

I don't have a problem with what SMS are developing, they can make their next game as simplistic and as arcade as they like - really no problem. What I do take issue with is that SMS, having established the Project CARS series as a simulator (remember that CARS actually stands for Community Assisted Racing Simulator), are now preying on the goodwill of previous PC customers to try and sell something that, quite frankly, isn't Project CARS.

Given that the Codies now own SMS, and given what I've seen of PC3, I kind of feel that "GRID Autosport 2" would have been a more appropriate moniker for this title - and I did really enjoy GRID Autosport back in the day.

 

[Pedinhuh]

“We don’t know how many SMS has planned, but that fact that the first article there is “#1” is a pretty good sign that this is due to be a reasonably lengthy endeavour.“

I’ll have a guess thanks,

Next article will be called Downforce, you don’t need it so we’re removing it.

Next week we’ll talk open borders with the new non existent penalty system.

Project cars 3. Open world. Why drive on track when you can turn out of the gates and go cross country?
That'll be next ffs

The next logical step now is to make races based on cross-country with nothing but a singular checkpoint on one end of the map and the starting point on the other end.

Now go and take your multi-million dollar McLaren supercar off-road, otherwise the guy in a supped up 4WD sportscar will smoke you

 

[greenlightning]

The "core of the base" is the problem (not the features...) there's simply not enough of you... A loud minority is still a minority. You're anger is understandable but laced with selfishness, what of the folks who would potentially like this game but are put off by the features you hold so dear? Its pure self interest to think games are only made for your narrow set of parameters and that these views are held by everybody in the gaming community. I wont however defend SMS on their promises, oh hell no lol (still waiting on that improved controller support they promised for PC2)

PC2 and PC1 you can adjust things to be as easy or hard as you want. Offline random races set the A.I to 20 percent or so an even at 15 to 20 laps depending on car class never have to pit. Heck at 15 to 20 percent difficult with a basic wheel it is can be as easy as GT or Forza series. Good/Great things are generally not easily accomplished and thats the way it should be. A few good races in PC1 and PC2 in my opinion are easily equivalent or exceed dozens of races in GT or Forza. In PC with the right difficulty to match or exceed your own, you can spend lap after lap just hunting down 1 or 2 cars waiting for the right moment to make a pass.

 

[Flerbizky]

I drive into rain without pitting to change to wet tires on a regular basis -- in real life.

Driving into rain without stopping first is a thing. Driving into a blizzard without any pitlane around is a thing.

You drive a racecar on slicks in real life?. If not, the comparison is null and void.

And no it isn't - not when driving said 600bhp racecar on slicks doing 250km/h....

 

[AlexWilmot]

"We had a concern that simulators and racing sims were kind of seen as fairly po-faced and fairly technical and fairly dry, and not welcoming. A little bit elitist, maybe," says Pete Morrish, production director on Project Cars 3.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ga...-the-racing-sim-that-will-appeal-to-everyone/

It's a game aimed at people who like cars, not Motorsport enthusiasts.

The marketing has been all wrong in saying it will appeal to Sim racers, removing pitstops means you can't simulate every aspect of racing, whether it's implementated correctly or not I'd call it a sim but this won't be.

Those backing up Grid 2019... You should try some good games out in the market in comparison like FM or GT, that games was totally aimed at a couch casual player and I think it was an absolute waste of my money, this should of been called Grid 2020 (updated tracks from grid so it seems more real)

 

[potvinsuks]

Well. I’m out. ACC and GT7 it is.

...You DO know that we still can play pCARS 2 right?

Project CARS was never going to compete with ACC, AMS2 and iRacing as a sim. What it can be is a sim-lite competitor to Gran Turismo and Forza with better physics, and accessible to casual players on all platforms.

Excuse me but I, and a great majority do consider pCARS 2 a bonafide Sim. Maybe, it is because we're able to adjust the Settings accordingly to fit the title of a true Sim.. Kind of the whole point of why so many including myself are outraged over this. Also, isn't AMS 2 really pCARS 2 anyway?

So much whining from the sim snobs. Oh well I guess now I'll be branded as some "Filthy Casual" just for stating my opinion on this. See if I care...

If they titled the game anything other than pCARS 3, then you probably wouldn't hear a peep from us snobs..

Typical simmer drama as always...

Btw: GT3 can drive for over an hour without refuel or tire change... And you can have great races without those features... Most important for me is a great handling and that drift video from Austin O. just looked awesome and so much better then what i experienced in Pcars 2 when drifting. Can´t wait to get my hands on this game.

And tbh i will not miss any of the pit stops, tire type, pressure ect bugs Pcars 2 has

#lessfiddlingjustracing

Again, see my comment up above. All SMS had to do is name it something else.


Just wanted to say to all of those who say that, there are only a few who play these games with Pit Stops anyway. We understand that but, they could have made the game from the start to have the option to adjust those settings accordingly.

Also, have you guys been watching any Television lately? There are at least 4 different E-Sports Racing Leagues which have been televising Real and Sim Racers along with stars from various sports and theatre on ESPN, FS1, NBC Sports etc. taking part in Races on various Sim Titles which, have Pit Stops and Tyre Wear. Heck, even Natalie Pinkham was amazed of all of the action on F1's e-sport league.

It amazes me that SMS decided to take this route when we're truly at the Golden Age of Sim Racing. They could have easily made a macro Racing Game (like pCARS 2 - GTS) where the user was able to tone it down to their liking to where it plays like a RidgeRacer or whatever Arcade Racing games that you'd want.

You can cut a game down to your liking but, you can't add to something that's already not there.

 

[RustyCitroen]

Why?
It affects PC users as well.

At least we have some more choice, or at least better optimization for them.