Project CARS 3: General Discussion Thread - Out August 28th, 2020 on XB1/PS4/PC

[Konan]

Do you honestly know how many GT sounds like vacuum clean comments we have had here? Now have a guess how many of those were shut down, threatened or banned from commenting in certain threads, the answer is none.

I never shut down, banned or threatened anyone for those reasons.
I do get your point about the negativity being removed.
Allthough it was never my intention to remove every negativity, i see that could be misunderstood easily. So i edited the last sentence of my OP.
Talking about a game should indeed allow for pros and cons.
I posted that right after a discussion derailed again so i admit i should have thought it through a little better...

 

[Scaff]

I never shut down, banned or threatened anyone for those reasons.
I do get your point about the negativity being removed.
Allthough it was never my intention to remove every negativity, i see that could be misunderstood easily. So i edited the last sentence of my OP.
Talking about a game should indeed allow for pros and cons.
I posted that right after a discussion derailed again so i admit i should have thought it through a little better...

And that’s my point exactly, it’s not about intent, it’s about the optics of it, and right now on the official forums it has a feeling that being honest about the concerns people have will be punished. Either by the staff or by a number of members who come across as being protected (and I think you could guess one in particular in that regard).

Im comfortable being honest here because I know the AUP will be applied in a fair and even handed manner, I’m sorry to say that I do not get that feeling at all on the official PC forum, and I know I’m not alone in that regard.

Particularly as I’ve just learned that apparently I’m ‘vile’!

That unfortunately is the attitude that has now been validated and encouraged on the official forums, and this close to launch it’s not a good look for the brand at all.

 

[Konan]

Maybe a stupid question but what exactly does no private lobby's at the start mean? Is that private lobby as in not available for everyone or private as in set up by yourself?

I think it means you can't setup a lobby for league racing (at release)

 

[Famine]

I can assure you that the staff here would never condone a staff member creating a thread with the sole intention of shutting down one side of a conversation.

Two threads.

This line from the pinned thread on the new subforums on the site sets my teeth on edge:

Everyone knows by now what is not going to be in the game so i believe it's high time that everyone starts concentrating more on what will be in it instead.

 

[Blob_91]

I think it means you can't setup a lobby for league racing (at release)

But you can create one that is publicly accessible for everybody to join? Or is online (at release) restricted to the events organized by SMS?

 

[Konan]

But you can create one that is publicly accessible for everybody to join? Or is online (at release) restricted to the events organized by SMS?

Nathan stated that you can host your own lobby

Two threads.

This line from the pinned thread on the new subforums on the site sets my teeth on edge:

And what is wrong with that?
That was pulled out of context as well:

 

[Jezza819]

And some of us who have pre-ordered it want to be able to discuss the pros and the cons without fear of unwarranted censorship.

The optics of what you have done goes only one way, and it’s not a positive one, not helped by mocking people within it safe in the knowledge that it will be both protected and supported by the staff.

You get the feeling over there that you can't ask "why" about something without being told "if you don't like it don't buy it, shut up".

 

[Konan]

You get the feeling over there that you can't ask "why" about something without being told "if you don't like it don't buy it, shut up".

That answer (without the "shut up") is really not what you get by simply asking "why".
It was an answer given by Nathan after getting the same remarks (not questions) about the missing features. I don't know how many times something has to be repeated before some people get the message...

 

[Scaff]

That answer (without the "shut up") is really not what you get by simply asking "why".
It was an answer given by Nathan after getting the same remarks (not questions) about the missing features. I don't know how many times something has to be repeated before some people get the message...

The answer to that question is simple, as many times as is needed.

You, Nathan and everyone at SMS may have heard a point a million times, that never excuses shooting down someone who is asking it for the first time, unaware of if others have asked it or how many times they may have asked it.

This is another person, another potential customer, who you are being dismissive to, how many of those do you think will see SMS and the PC brand in a positive light if this continues as the norm.

 

[Famine]

And what is wrong with that?

It is a pinned message from a member of site staff that appears to allow the discussion of what is in the game, but which also appears to disallow discussion of what is not in the game across the entire forum. That will discourage members - particularly new members (which is how any site survives) from posting wholly reasonable things about what's not in the game on the basis that a member of site staff appears to suggest it is not permitted... even though you don't explicitly say that it is not permitted

As @Scaff notes, there's also the consideration of optics; my first thought as a disinterested onlooker is "Why does the site staff appear to not want any discussion on things that aren't in the game? What do they know, and how bad can it really be to issue statements like that?".

Of course the answer may be "nothing", you're simply tired of posts on the topic (which is your personal prerogative, but again not something you should be unilaterally deciding and posting in a pinned thread)... but your position invites suspicion that you have insider knowledge. Mine does, and I have absolutely no association with Polyphony Digital at all; this isn't even their site, but the PC forums are SMS's site.

That was pulled out of context as well:

For good reason. The rest of the post makes... some sense*, but that specific line does not. I'm not interested in the bits that make sense, only the bit that does not. It is, by nature of the rest of the post, incongruous.


I mean, you moderate your site how you see fit (or how your admins/moderation team sees fit) - it's your (or their; I don't know the hierarchy there) site, not mine (or ours), so it's up to you... but that line makes my eyes itch.

Incidentally, I don't think it's a very good title for a pinned thread either - it doesn't describe what it's for or why it's important enough to be pinned. Perhaps "Reminder of PC Forums Site Rules" would encourage a few more visitors, and a bit less time on your behalf in threads tidying up because people haven't read it.


*Though if you've reached the point where you need a pinned thread to reinforce existing rules (rather than, like in our Motorsport forum, to establish some slightly firmer ones), something else has gone wrong somewhere; reminding individuals, privately, that their conduct has fallen below site standards is fairly normal, but reminding the entire site in a pinned thread?

 

[Konan]

It is a pinned message from a member of site staff that appears to allow the discussion of what is in the game, but which also appears to disallow discussion of what is not in the game across the entire forum. That will discourage members - particularly new members (which is how any site survives) from posting wholly reasonable things about what's not in the game on the basis that a member of site staff appears to suggest it is not permitted... even though you don't explicitly say that it is not permitted

As @Scaff notes, there's also the consideration of optics; my first thought as a disinterested onlooker is "Why does the site staff appear to not want any discussion on things that aren't in the game? What do they know, and how bad can it really be to issue statements like that?".

Of course the answer may be "nothing", you're simply tired of posts on the topic (which is your personal prerogative, but again not something you should be unilaterally deciding and posting in a pinned thread)... but your position invites suspicion that you have insider knowledge. Mine does, and I have absolutely no association with Polyphony Digital at all; this isn't even their site, but the PC forums are SMS's site.

For good reason. The rest of the post makes... some sense*, but that specific line does not. I'm not interested in the bits that make sense, only the bit that does not. It is, by nature of the rest of the post, incongruous.


*Though if you've reached the point where you need a pinned thread to reinforce existing rules (rather than, like in our Motorsport forum, to establish some slightly firmer ones), something else has gone wrong somewhere; reminding individuals, privately, that their conduct has fallen below site standards is fairly normal, but reminding the entire site in a pinned thread?

Hmm... I see your point...

 

[jake2013guy]

You get the feeling over there that you can't ask "why" about something without being told "if you don't like it don't buy it, shut up".

I feel like there are two sides to this. There's the "haha. I agree with him and it's funny watching him destroy idiots who just baselessly insult the game." Then there's the other side which sees this as frustrating and unprofessional which doesn't really tackle any of the issues raised. The tone that often goes with it is a major part of it as well.

I've been on both sides from PCARS2 then PCARS3. Fanboyism can blind your judgement on whether they actually should act the way they act.

Plus, when senior staff on your Discord break the rules like profanity, it's seen as nothing. But when a standard user does it and asks what rule they broke, they get kicked.

 

[Nacho Libre]

Was the debate about GT Sport vs all Gran Turismo's past history was ever this venomous? (And I don't mean these forums, but elsewhere) For the life of me I can't recall that it was.

 

[Konan]

 

[PJTierney]

Good post @PJTierney - actual helpful posts get lost because everyone is more concerned about how they market the game than what's in it.

Anyway, I'm curious about the multiplayer modes. While I hope they add private lobbies ASAP, what's there looks decent. Not sure what they all are though. And the career mode looks outstanding to me. Getting old school GT vibes in the best way. I hope what's there will keep me interested until private lobbies are introduced

My club is done with Forza, and I want Project CARS 3 to be the replacement. Can’t really do that without Private Lobbies

 

[Konan]

My club is done with Forza, and I want Project CARS 3 to be the replacement. Can’t really do that without Private Lobbies

They will be patched in later AFAIK.

 

[Blob_91]

Was the debate about GT Sport vs all Gran Turismo's past history was ever this venomous? (And I don't mean these forums, but elsewhere) For the life of me I can't recall that it was.

I haven't followed the GT Sport discussion that close but in my opinion the average sim racer's voice (Project Cars 2) is a bit louder than the casual racer's voice (GT 6 and before). I think the existing Gran Turismo crowd voiced concerns and then quickly went to let's see what it actually brings.

Big difference here that as much as Gran Turismo changed a little direction the difference between PC2 and PC3 is i.m.o. even bigger as in that the change to the core of the game has changed more

 

[Benny44]

I haven't followed the GT Sport discussion that close but in my opinion the average sim racer's voice (Project Cars 2) is a bit louder than the casual racer's voice (GT 6 and before). I think the existing Gran Turismo crowd voiced concerns and then quickly went to let's see what it actually brings.

Big difference here that as much as Gran Turismo changed a little direction the difference between PC2 and PC3 is i.m.o. even bigger as in that the change to the core of the game has changed more

GT was a big change though. It's the only GT I don't really care for because the lobbies aren't detailed, and the career is bare bones. We don't really know for sure about PC3. Although it does look big, it may not be quite as big of a difference as we think.

I'm with you @PJTierney - as a PS4 owner I haven't had that type of racing game yet. Forza 4, IMO, is probably the best of the series. The newer ones that I've played a bit of don't seem to have as long of a shelf life

 

[Jezza819]

Big difference here that as much as Gran Turismo changed a little direction the difference between PC2 and PC3 is i.m.o. even bigger as in that the change to the core of the game has changed more

And that's what concerns me the most since PC2 is my favorite racing game but I don't really see anything in PC3 that resembles PC2 at all.

 

[Blob_91]

GT was a big change though. It's the only GT I don't really care for because the lobbies aren't detailed, and the career is bare bones. We don't really know for sure about PC3. Although it does look big, it may not be quite as big of a difference as we think.

I'm with you @PJTierney - as a PS4 owner I haven't had that type of racing game yet. Forza 4, IMO, is probably the best of the series. The newer ones that I've played a bit of don't seem to have as long of a shelf life

It might be my perspective but the way I look at it Gran Turismo was a car collector's game with 'soft-sim' racing, and although I agree GT Sport is a version with less content than used to, the base remained the same. Whereas PC2 was a 'hard-sim' racing game focused on simulating motorsports events and PC3 appears to be a 'soft-sim' racing game with only short action based racing.

Also a big difference I think is that GT Sport was quickly explained as a sort of spin-off while they were working on GT7, although at this point we might question how much of that statement is true. PC3 on the otherhand is announced as a direct successor of PC2 and until stated otherwise is the direction the franchise goes. And this latter part is the reason the existing player base voices a lot of concerns and angry comments

 

[Morgoth_666]

It might be my perspective but the way I look at it Gran Turismo was a car collector's game with 'soft-sim' racing, and although I agree GT Sport is a version with less content than used to, the base remained the same. Whereas PC2 was a 'hard-sim' racing game focused on simulating motorsports events and PC3 appears to be a 'soft-sim' racing game with only short action based racing.

Also a big difference I think is that GT Sport was quickly explained as a sort of spin-off while they were working on GT7, although at this point we might question how much of that statement is true. PC3 on the otherhand is announced as a direct successor of PC2 and until stated otherwise is the direction the franchise goes. And this latter part is the reason the existing player base voices a lot of concerns and angry comments

There is also the question of how big a portion of the "extremely unhappy" comments are coming from people who were just as negative about PC2(possibly never bought it), and it's not necessarily about the game but the people who make it. For whatever varied reasons there may be, a certain number of people do have rather strong feelings about SMS and the pCARS series even before there was any pC3 debate. Some people do have a hard time letting things go.

I'm trying to stick with "I liked what they were trying to do with PC2 so I bought it and will likely enjoy it for quite some time yet" and "I don't like a lot of what they are doing with PC3 so I won't buy it[until Humble probably sells it to me in a package with 15 other games for 10 bucks, one or two of which pay for the whole thing]." And if they survive to make a PC4 I'll try to judge it on it's own merits. But there is at least a little bit of a stinging feeling that my continuing business is not appreciated, even though I know I'm in the full-sim minority.

 

[tonybarnaby]

I don’t follow game releases very closely, but I really like project cars 2. Is it normal for a game to be this close to release and still know so little about it? I’m not a die hard sim racer so I will buy it regardless, but it’s weird we don’t even know the tracks. The #1 thing to me is that it has road America and the IMSA 90 Audi again. It’s a must have if so.

 

[Northstar]

I don’t follow game releases very closely, but I really like project cars 2. Is it normal for a game to be this close to release and still know so little about it? I’m not a die hard sim racer so I will buy it regardless, but it’s weird we don’t even know the tracks. The #1 thing to me is that it has road America and the IMSA 90 Audi again. It’s a must have if so.

Both the car and track lists were released this past week.

https://www.projectcarsgame.com/three/

 

[tonybarnaby]

Both the car and track lists were released this past week.

https://www.projectcarsgame.com/three/

Thanks for that.

 

[Famine]

I don’t follow game releases very closely, but I really like project cars 2. Is it normal for a game to be this close to release and still know so little about it? I’m not a die hard sim racer so I will buy it regardless, but it’s weird we don’t even know the tracks. The #1 thing to me is that it has road America and the IMSA 90 Audi again. It’s a must have if so.

https://www.gtplanet.net/guides/project-cars-3/

 

[SlowGrayAudi]

Freedom of speech is still a principle outside of the 1A or a private platform's right to moderate speech, IMHO. It is something to ideally uphold in a certain balance and fairness with that right to moderate.

I concur.

People should be able to voice their opinion and raise questions and concerns and they see fit without the fear of being silenced and shunned.

I spent over 19 months of my life fighting for the freedoms we have as Americans, and i constantly get people riled up over stuff because i exercise that right at every opportunity.

Usually (in my opinion) its due to people being wayyyyyyy to sensitive these days and can't handle anyone having their own opinions and viewpoint. Especially if they lean to the left it seems.

Im not saying thats a fact, but in my personal experience. The people who lean left are just so sensitive and will not even entertain the idea of people having a viewpoint that differs from theirs. I their eyes you're just wrong

Then people that are right leaning, tend to just speak their mind with less of a filter. And seem to be a little more open to discussion.

But thats that my personal observations of people I've met in the US.

So lots of grains of salt

PS.

The game,


Based on what ive heard, it does look like the Bell's are running their business/websites etc like a regime where only their rules go. And if you share an opinion opposite of that then you are ignored or banned and your opinion is silenced.

Which is a shame for sure. If these things are all true then i hope they have backlash severe enough that things will be forced to change for the better in the future.

 

[Wolfe]

@SlowGrayAudi and anyone else -- With respect, let's not light that particular powder keg in this subforum, please...which is an ironic favor to ask, I know.

 

[Zeitoss]

SMS need to accept that this was going to be very divisive and they need to accept that people will want answers.

I tend to disagree.

This is SMS game, is their product and they do whatever they want with it.
They don't need to provide any answers, but they own the consequences of every decision they make.

People not interested or disappointed should just refrain to buy the game, this is the best way to let SMS down (not only by words, but by facts).

In his rude way, Nathan is right.

 

[SlowGrayAudi]

@SlowGrayAudi and anyone else -- With respect, let's not light that particular powder keg in this subforum, please...which is an ironic favor to ask, I know.

Definitely, im not here to light it.

I just hope that they take the publics voice on board. It can only benefit their business (the P cars games).

This thread is very mature (at least the last few pages) so lets keep that going

 

[Zeitoss]

So now, we have the PCars3 "damage control" in this forum as well?

I reckon the system works, it is already two pages that instead of talking about the game (and its present and missing features), users are debating about how a forum should be moderated.

From a (virtual) social point of view, this is very interesting.