Project Cars 3 Sales [Discussion]

[gregc]

So back to pCARS3 sales - looks like it didn't even trouble the PSN top 20 for September in either EU or the US. Ouch.

https://blog.playstation.com/2020/10/09/playstation-store-septembers-top-downloads-5/

US TOP 20

1 NBA 2K21
2 Marvel’s Avengers
3 Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 1 + 2
4 Madden NFL 21
5 Fall Guys: Ultimate Knockout
6 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare
7 Grand Theft Auto V
8 Minecraft
9 EA Sports FIFA 20
10 Marvel’s Spider-Man
11 Red Dead Redemption 2
12 Ghost of Tsushima
13 Mafia: Definitive Edition
14 Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six Siege
15 PGA Tour 2K21
16 Kingdoms of Amalur: Re-Reckoning
17 God of War
18 Dead by Daylight: Special Edition
19 Assassin’s Creed Odyssey
20 Jump Force


EU TOP 20

1 EA Sports FIFA 20
2 Fall Guys: Ultimate Knockout
3 NBA 2K21
4 Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 1 + 2
5 Marvel’s Avengers
6 eFootball PES 2021 Season Update
7 Grand Theft Auto V
8 Tom Clancy’s The Division 2
9 Mafia: Definitive Edition
10 Minecraft
11 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare
12 Days Gone
13 Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six Siege
14 Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition
15 Assassin’s Creed Odyssey
16 Red Dead Redemption 2
17 Need for Speed Payback
18 Marvel’s Spider-Man
19 The Forest
20 Gran Turismo Sport

 

[PJTierney]

To be fair, there's some better-received racing games that aren't there either.

F1 2020 is doing crazy good numbers compared to F1 2019's performance last year, and it's not there.

Goes to show how well GT Sport is still doing.

 

[Nacho Libre]

After reading both lists above I realize how niche my tastes are: FH2, FH3, FH4, Forza 6, Forza 7, Grid Autosport, Grid, PC2, PC3, Dirt 4, Horizon Chase Turbo and Burnout Paradise take most of my HD space!

 

[Faultier]

Once again, I am asking for examples and evidence of this happening with "every game".

This isn't about Project CARS 3, but if you're going to make a claim like that then it would nice if you backed it up

Well your „after release“ support of GRID was also a slap in the face of the fans.

There was this content of the seasons pass, then there was the long silence where you simply ignored all questions on twitter etc. and then „boom - no more content for the game“.

The paid DLC of Dirt 2.0 was often recycled from Dirt.

The Manta was even cut out on purpose to give it back later as DLC.

And now again.
Selling Pcars 3 with a seasons pass and now nobody knows when and what to expect.

No wonder people move on

 

[zr1chris]

This is what happens when you alienate your fanbase....

 

[T0MMY3688]

Well your „after release“ support of GRID was also a slap in the face of the fans.

There was this content of the seasons pass, then there was the long silence where you simply ignored all questions on twitter etc. and then „boom - no more content for the game“.

The paid DLC of Dirt 2.0 was often recycled from Dirt.

The Manta was even cut out on purpose to give it back later as DLC.

And now again.
Selling Pcars 3 with a seasons pass and now nobody knows when and what to expect.

No wonder people move on

Not releasing anything about the season pass is more of the industry standard than Codemaster/SMS fault. Even back in pCARS 2 we know nothing about the season pass when the game released, same can be said about Wreckfest and Forza too.

Dirt Rally 2.0 released their first season plan weeks before the game released if I remember correctly and seeing Monte Carlo and Group B RWD turned paid DLC I end up skipping the game at launch.

 

[PJTierney]

Dirt Rally 2.0 released their first season plan weeks before the game released if I remember correctly and seeing Monte Carlo and Group B RWD turned paid DLC I end up skipping the game at launch.

I joined Codemasters just as Season 2 was announced, which was 1-2 weeks before its release.

Season 3 was announced and detailed a week before its release.

Season 4 was announced and detailed same time as Season 3 (so 2-3 months before release).

Colin McRae Expansion was announced and detailed 2 months before release.

In an ideal world, game, passes and all DLC would be announced at the same time, but dates and details shift around in production a lot which prevents that from happening. One example I can give is that we had to change the order some of the World RX cars came out in, as certain manufacturers were taking longer than expected to approve the final models.

Well your „after release“ support of GRID was also a slap in the face of the fans.

There was this content of the seasons pass, then there was the long silence where you simply ignored all questions on twitter etc. and then „boom - no more content for the game“.

The paid DLC of Dirt 2.0 was often recycled from Dirt.

The Manta was even cut out on purpose to give it back later as DLC.

And now again.
Selling Pcars 3 with a seasons pass and now nobody knows when and what to expect.

No wonder people move on

I presume by "you" you mean Codemasters and not me personally. I didn't work on GRID or Project CARS 3.

As for DiRT Rally 2.0, the DLC implementation wasn't ideal, that's a fair criticism*.

However, the original question was about lying in promotions and I don't think we've done that.
In fact, in my communications I go out of my way with careful wording to make sure that doesn't happen.

*First I've heard of the Manta story; I'm fairly sure it was always planned for DLC though since it's not a H3 RWD car, it's in a DLC Class (Group B RWD).

​

​

 

[Faultier]

Yes you = Codemasters.
I don´t mean you PJ and I appreciate your fair way of handling of criticsm.

See - I have no problems at all with DLC.
It keeps the game alive but if content is cut on purpose to release later as DLC.... this just sucks.

See, the Manta B was in the game when the media played the preview-version.
Coming the release the car was gone just to be found later as DLC.

But yes - the plans for the DLC were very well presented in advance.

A big contrast to the things its now handled on Pcars 3.
At least since Pcars 3 has all cars of Pcars 2 we don´t get old content.

But just 12 cars in total is somewhat meh....

@T0MMY3688

Oh you are wrong buddy when it comes to Forza.

Yes they are selling in advance a seasons pass but this pass always started on release day or at least one week later.
This was the case in all Motorsport games since Forza 4 and also in Horizon.

They said "you get 6 dlc packs with 8 cars each or so" and the first dlc pack was avaible at launch or at least one week later.

Also when it comes to communication Turn 10 / playground are a great example how to do it.
They have Forza monthly, they have weekly streams etc.

Slightly Mad and esp. Polyphony should watch and learn here!

 

[T0MMY3688]

I joined Codemasters just as Season 2 was announced, which was 1-2 weeks before its release.

Season 1 content was announced with its release schedule on February 12th, the game released on February 26th.

In an ideal world, game, passes and all DLC would be announced at the same time, but dates and details shift around in production a lot which prevents that from happening. One example I can give is that we had to change the order some of the World RX cars came out in, as certain manufacturers were taking longer than expected to approve the final models.

I don't mind them not being announced weeks or months before release or having a strict release schedule. I skipped DR2.0 on launch because my complains with DR1 when it was released is that it really needed more rally routes but when DR2.0 launch with the same amount of locations it just looks like the content issue I had is still present. Then I saw the old DR1 routes are coming back as paid DLC, better to pick it up a year later when the game is pack full of content.

I do know that approval for manufacturers can be an issue and require last minute changes, those are unavoidable but I'm usually quite annoyed when I see the same cars and track from previous game got resold as a DLC.

@T0MMY3688

Oh you are wrong buddy when it comes to Forza.

Yes they are selling in advance a seasons pass but this pass always started on release day or at least one week later.
This was the case in all Motorsport games since Forza 4 and also in Horizon.

I don't think it matters when it starts, as long they deliver what they said I'm fine by it but all season pass still has the same issue you mention where we know nothing about it when we pay for it. Most games don't really give a release schedule either.

They said "you get 6 dlc packs with 8 cars each or so" and the first dlc pack was avaible at launch or at least one week later.

The only difference in that is having a strict schedule, pCARS 3 still mention the total amount of content you are getting out of the season pass and the number of packs. It is not like they are hiding that info from the players. Also considering we've seen how pCARS 2 did their DLC, 4 packs of content stretch over a year. I think it is expected that pCARS 3 is doing the same thing again.

From the season pass Steam page:

Four carefully curated packs will push you further into the world of racing with a collection of 12 totally unique and desirable cars, race conversion kits, over 60 Career Tours, 100s of Customisation Assets along with Trophies and Achievements.

Also when it comes to communication Turn 10 / playground are a great example how to do it.
They have Forza monthly, they have weekly streams etc.

Slightly Mad and esp. Polyphony should watch and learn here!

I always find those streams to be useless the minute the game released, I enjoy watching streams about new games but once it released I just stop following them. The monthly streams are fairly boring and I always wait for the preview article pops up on GT Planet.

 

[PJTierney]

See, the Manta B was in the game when the media played the preview-version.
Coming the release the car was gone just to be found later as DLC.

Ah I see, didn’t know that.

normally preview builds have everything unlocked and what I imagine happened was that the Manta in the preview build was a straight rip from the first game, and didn’t have final handling, audio, bodywork etc. since each asset from the original game was touched up.

Also when it comes to communication Turn 10 / playground are a great example how to do it.
They have Forza monthly, they have weekly streams etc.

I like what Forza do with streaming, I wonder how their approval process works to be allowed to stream all those cars without advance notice

That being said their YouTube feels like little more than a housing platform for their trailers/streams, and isn’t as “alive” as I’ve been trying to make DiRT (which is averaging 3 videos a week currently).

 

[Bloodytears]

17 Need for Speed Payback

Just this enough to put PC3 to shame. This is not the Heat even.

 

[FT-1]

Just this enough to put PC3 to shame. This is not the Heat even.

When you realise Payback is available for free via PS Plus, it's really not that big of a deal.

 

[Bloodytears]

When you realise Payback is available for free via PS Plus, it's really not that big of a deal.

I know, that it is free, but is it always works like that, guess not. Don't see Vampyr there. And according to my memory Payback has had quite a hard start, and not so praised in series.

 

[TS050]

When you realise Payback is available for free via PS Plus, it's really not that big of a deal.

To be fair, those are the top sales for September. It was in the Top 20 right before becoming free for this month

 

[PJTierney]

It depends on how a sale is defined, whether cash moves from player to store, or a new license is added to a player’s account.

Would anyone have similar charts handy for March/April?

DiRT Rally 2.0 was free in April so I’m wondering if there’s a pattern.

 

[FT-1]

To be fair, those are the top sales for September. It was in the Top 20 right before becoming free for this month

In that case, there are gonna be a lot of people facepalming and wishing they waited another month to get the game for free!

 

[Bloodytears]

Well, I have bought PUBG out of blue right before it become free. Those unfortunate things happening so easy. But how could I even guess...

 

[Faultier]

Ah I see, didn’t know that.

normally preview builds have everything unlocked and what I imagine happened was that the Manta in the preview build was a straight rip from the first game, and didn’t have final handling, audio, bodywork etc. since each asset from the original game was touched up.




I like what Forza do with streaming, I wonder how their approval process works to be allowed to stream all those cars without advance notice

That being said their YouTube feels like little more than a housing platform for their trailers/streams, and isn’t as “alive” as I’ve been trying to make DiRT (which is averaging 3 videos a week currently).

Yes their youtube-channel is not that cool.
Also the fact they have no Forza 8 ready but let Forza 7 die already in 2019 is still a bitter pill for me to swallow.

But maybe you can talk to your work-mates at Slighty Mad.
Tell them more and more people leave the game and they should finally say / tell how they think Pcars 3 future looks like.

 

[Scaff]

Just checked on the Steam numbers and PC3 is now behind the other two titles on all metrics.

 

[AlexWilmot]

It was pretty dead in Multiplayer yesterday when I decided to give the game a go for about an hour

 

[the13PeSK]

I'm not surprised, as much as I like this game and I'm playing it nearly all the time when I'm on my Xbox I've noticed that I've started to loose interest recently...

Funny enough that's not the case with for example Dirt Rally 2.0 which is way older and obviously much more narrow in terms of variety.

I think it's all because of awful support from SMS (could give a few examples from official Discord but I think it's pointless as everyone knows what to expect...)

 

[PJTierney]

It was pretty dead in Multiplayer yesterday when I decided to give the game a go for about an hour

On Xbox it’s quiet most nights (3-5 lobbies open), however when I host my lobbies on Mondays I tend to have 17 people in there on average.

 

[AlexWilmot]

On Xbox it’s quiet most nights (3-5 lobbies open), however when I host my lobbies on Mondays I tend to have 17 people in there on average.

is there a cross-play option?

 

[Jab1362]

Just checked on the Steam numbers and PC3 is now behind the other two titles on all metrics.

View attachment 966376

I wonder if this spells the end for Project Cars as a series.

 

[PJTierney]

is there a cross-play option?

Unfortunately not.

 

[cholton]

I wonder if this spells the end for Project Cars as a series.

I'd hope not but they can't continue down this avenue , a PC 2.5 would of annilated the current sales and playing figures.
I still believe this was a quick final obligated game for Bandai Namco before they get stuck in with codemasters. Its basic and lazy in every sense which I think is what they wanted , nothing too complicated that they'd need to patch out loads of bugs.
I really hope we do see something more akin to what they did with PC1 and 2 next or maybe a more focused game like TC or IMSA for example.

 

[Jab1362]

I'd hope not but they can't continue down this avenue , a PC 2.5 would of annilated the current sales and playing figures.
I still believe this was a quick final obligated game for Bandai Namco before they get stuck in with codemasters. Its basic and lazy in every sense which I think is what they wanted , nothing too complicated that they'd need to patch out loads of bugs.
I really hope we do see something more akin to what they did with PC1 and 2 next or maybe a more focused game like TC or IMSA for example.

i think they would be smart to produce PC Vintage, they have loads of cars and a lot of classic tracks to build on.

 

[jake2013guy]

I'd hope not but they can't continue down this avenue , a PC 2.5 would of annilated the current sales and playing figures.
I still believe this was a quick final obligated game for Bandai Namco before they get stuck in with codemasters. Its basic and lazy in every sense which I think is what they wanted , nothing too complicated that they'd need to patch out loads of bugs.
I really hope we do see something more akin to what they did with PC1 and 2 next or maybe a more focused game like TC or IMSA for example.

Touring Cars would probably not be a great idea with a BTCC game coming in 2022 but a development on PCARS2 would be great. Modernise and expand the classes that need it with a few tracks that add to the experience. For example, Iowa and Gateway for ovals at least and a few Asian circuits.

Then the main point would be improving the BOP of the classes. Touring Cars are pretty poorly balanced in PCARS2 with the Megane being the main viable option and the BMW if you can make it work.

 

[Wolfe]

I haven't been playing much of anything lately except Guild Wars 2 with my wife, but as it stands, this is not one of my first choices. I'm expecting more support to make it into something better, like the last two titles, but I'm not holding my breath either.

One drag is how disconnected the core driving experience ultimately feels. I'm not sure how much of it is in the handling itself, or the camera options they removed for no 🤬 good reason. I can't adjust the motion of the cockpit camera for better feedback, which was already still lacking in PCARS2 after my personal adjustments. I also really want my visual options back -- killing the motion blur being the #1 priority.

 

[jake2013guy]

I haven't been playing much of anything lately except Guild Wars 2 with my wife, but as it stands, this is not one of my first choices. I'm expecting more support to make it into something better, like the last two titles, but I'm not holding my breath either.

One drag is how disconnected the core driving experience ultimately feels. I'm not sure how much of it is in the handling itself, or the camera options they removed for no 🤬 good reason. I can't adjust the motion of the cockpit camera for better feedback, which was already still lacking in PCARS2 after my personal adjustments. I also really want my visual options back -- killing the motion blur being the #1 priority.

I've stuck with PCARS2 and I keep finding something that would be fixed in a sequel. As good as that game is, an improvement on it wouldn't be so hard to find in so many areas.