Project CARS 4 "Will Be The Most Realistic Simulation Ever Made"

[MattJXN]

Many of those who have raised issues about the game, do also like it.

I like it, it's just not quite what it was presented as, and while the tracklist and car list is good, much of it is recycled from the first two titles, and some of the lost content is disappointing (and the same can be said for content lost from the original to the second title, such as the Atoms'). If you had never played the first two, then you would not miss them, but for those that have, it's not easy to forget what was excluded from PCars3.

I have all three games, and have enjoyed the first two versions.

 

[eran0004]

I have all three games, and have enjoyed the first two versions.

The problem lies with expectations and disappointment. If SMS decided to develop scrabble and call it Project Cars 4 I’m sure it could be enjoyable to play, but the fact that it’s nothing like what I expected would be disappointing.

PC3 is obviously not that extreme of a change from PC2, it was just an example to illustrate the point.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

While I don't particularly like the actual effect in pCARS2, see this report from British GT at Brands in 2018, specifically:

(spelling mistake theirs, emphasis mine )

So that's at least one modern, homologated race car with a glass screen. I don't necessarily disagree with your general point, but it's not a given that a race car has a polycarb screen.

Good point, I probably should of worded so that whatever said car has in real life should be portrayed in game if possible (to an extent) if not then whatever the majority of the series uses. Either way, tone down the effects.

 

[MattJXN]

The problem lies with expectations and disappointment. If SMS decided to develop scrabble and call it Project Cars 4 I’m sure it could be enjoyable to play, but the fact that it’s nothing like what I expected would be disappointing.

PC3 is obviously not that extreme of a change from PC2, it was just an example to illustrate the point.

Certainly can understand that, and I'm not directing this to anyone in particular. But I think some people watched the initial knee jerk reactions of some famous Youtubers, and began parroting that around the internet, therein reducing interest in the game.

 

[lol36]

did he just say same thing when before Releasing Project Cars 3

 

[GTsimms]

did he just say same thing when before Releasing Project Cars 3

The problem, PC3 has better road vehicle physics than PC2. Several, who have experience. We think, it's the best overall representation of road vehicles out of any simulation.

This is what some in the sim community are failing to understand. The vehicles are natural to drive in PC3 (realistic) and the rain physics are phenomenal. You don't have to get accustom to the sim. It's jump in and drive like a real vehicle. Then you can recover a vehicle unlike most sims which recoverability is super hard or non-existent. Once, the grip/slip angle falls off you are done. PC3 has this issue addressed.

 

[Scaff]

The problem, PC3 has better road vehicle physics than PC2. Several, who have experience. We think, it's the best overall representation of road vehicles out of any simulation.

This is what some in the sim community are failing to understand. The vehicles are natural to drive in PC3 (realistic) and the rain physics are phenomenal. You don't have to get accustom to the sim. It's jump in and drive like a real vehicle. Then you can recover a vehicle unlike most sims which recoverability is super hard or non-existent. Once, the grip/slip angle falls off you are done. PC3 has this issue addressed.

The sim community do understand this, it’s simply that the majority, who have experience, disagree.

Then again, we’ve been around this particular discussion before.

 

[GTsimms]

The sim community do understand this, it’s simply that the majority, who have experience, disagree.

Then again, we’ve been around this particular discussion before.

Scaff, obviously you don't understand. But, we can get probably get someone, who does in the conversation. Since, you still want to discredit me.

 

[JSHuiting]

Where does it say it's a successor to Pc2?

Like literally in the name? Community Assisted Racing Simulator?

Scaff, obviously you don't understand. But, we can get probably get someone, who does in the conversation. Since, you still want to discredit me.

You're only discrediting yourself by saying bogus like : "The vehicles are natural to drive in PC3 (realistic) and the rain physics are phenomenal."
It's a full on arcade game, nothing about it is even slightly realistic, it's even worse than Forza and Gran Turismo in that aspect.

 

[r_outsider]

If I can find a cheap copy I'll pick it up to try it out. All this back and forth has really intrigued me enough that I sort of want to see for myself. On one hand, I sort of agree with Simms that road car tires in many games (although not all) have all the grip and feel of wooden wagon wheels, especially considering that modern sports car tires are frankly astonishing (and definitely compared to the ones I started out on when my driving career began). On the other hand, Scaff IS an expert in vehicle dynamics, has experience with actual cars in the game, on actual tracks in the game, and has picked and articulated very clearly many problems and inaccuracies in the vehicle handling models.

Essentially, the way I'm reading it, it's down to whether you care more about accuracy, or how things feel. Funny how often in racing games those two paradigms collide head on.

 

[Scaff]

Scaff, obviously you don't understand.

That I disagree with your conclusion? Yep, I understand that.

But, we can get probably get someone, who does in the conversation.

Ok.

Since, you still want to discredit me.

No, I simply don’t agree with you, if you feel that’s an attempt to discredit you, well I can’t really be held to blame for that.

You're only discrediting yourself by saying bogus like : "The vehicles are natural to drive in PC3 (realistic) and the rain physics are phenomenal."
It's a full on arcade game, nothing about it is even slightly realistic, it's even worse than Forza and Gran Turismo in that aspect.

I’d have to disagree, the underlying physics are solid, it just seems to have a lot of input smoothing helping out. Which is why it helps make you feel like a hero, I agree with @GTsimms that some titles make it far to hard to catch a car over the limit (iRacing being the worst offender in my view). I just happen to think that PC3’s smoothing helps out too much in the opposite direction.

 

[Toblerone]

The problem, PC3 has better road vehicle physics than PC2. Several, who have experience. We think, it's the best overall representation of road vehicles out of any simulation.

This is what some in the sim community are failing to understand. The vehicles are natural to drive in PC3 (realistic) and the rain physics are phenomenal. You don't have to get accustom to the sim. It's jump in and drive like a real vehicle. Then you can recover a vehicle unlike most sims which recoverability is super hard or non-existent. Once, the grip/slip angle falls off you are done. PC3 has this issue addressed.

I agree absolutely, the road car handling is sublime in pC3, the slip curve is a joy to play around with.

I actually think that most, if not all, cars are far better in this game.. there were too many race prepped machines that felt sluggish, understeery and just rather dull in pC1+2, now everything I've driven is just great. One of the real stand-outs for me is the 355 Challenge.. it should be a lively, exciting car to drive. In pC2 it was a bit of a dog.. in pC3 it's just sublime, everything that a properly race converted and tuned car should be.

Also in pC2, our league struggled to find solid, enjoyable cars to race... in pC3 I really struggle to find cars that aren't solid and enjoyable. Such a shame that the player base has diminished, it deserves so many more. It really is a fantastic game to drive and race in.

 

[McLaren]

Scaff, obviously you don't understand. But, we can get probably get someone, who does in the conversation. Since, you still want to discredit me.

Don't discredit me while I discredit you.

 

[GTsimms]

I'd have to disagree, the underlying physics are solid, it just seems to have a lot of input smoothing helping out. Which is why it helps make you feel like a hero, I agree with @GTsimms that some titles make it far to hard to catch a car over the limit (iRacing being the worst offender in my view). I just happen to think that PC3’s smoothing helps out too much in the opposite direction.

Wow, hero assists! I have not felt those in the game which means (Zero) assists in-game on a wheel.

 

[r_outsider]

I’d have to disagree, the underlying physics are solid, it just seems to have a lot of input smoothing helping out. Which is why it helps make you feel like a hero, I agree with @GTsimms that some titles make it far to hard to catch a car over the limit (iRacing being the worst offender in my view). I just happen to think that PC3’s smoothing helps out too much in the opposite direction.

Dumb question, obviously in some games (and I'm mainly pointing at the one publicly criticized by the likes of Scott Dixon and Conner Daly, who have no idea what they're talking about obviously ) the tire model is pure crap which makes any slip angle all but impossible, but, in your opinion, how much of the difficulty with said slip angles in many games is down to the lack of the old "Butt dyno," wheel feel and weird field of views and camera zooms? Even in my own cars, and I assure you in this part of the world there is plenty of driving to be had past the limit of traction, it registers in my vision and I feel it through body before I really feel it in my hands through the steering, if that makes any sense. Should mention the effect is even more noticeable in many modern vehicles with EPAS systems which basically have zero road feel, albeit some are worse than others to be sure.

 

[Konan]

Like literally in the name? Community Assisted Racing Simulator?

So because it carries the same name it's obviously a successor?
What about the Battlefield games, Assassin's Creeds, Need for speeds, Medal of honors,...?
They all changed styles from game to game.
I never heard someone complaining that they were not successors? Yet they all carry the same name with a number or something added...
It's the 3rd game of a franchise, what they do with that franchise is their own choice. The only reason why it's no longer Community Assisted is because that community was more bent on Assisting itself last time...
I never heard any dev claiming it was a successor to pcars2.

 

[Scaff]

Wow, hero assists! I have not felt those in the game which means (Zero) assists in-game on a wheel.

You seem to have a rather different version of the game to me, as I can feel them quite clearly via a wheel.

Dumb question, obviously in some games (and I'm mainly pointing at the one publicly criticized by the likes of Scott Dixon and Conner Daly, who have no idea what they're talking about obviously ) the tire model is pure crap which makes any slip angle all but impossible, but, in your opinion, how much of the difficulty with said slip angles in many games is down to the lack of the old "Butt dyno," wheel feel and weird field of views and camera zooms? Even in my own cars, and I assure you in this part of the world there is plenty of driving to be had past the limit of traction, it registers in my vision and I feel it through body before I really feel it in my hands through the steering, if that makes any sense. Should mention the effect is even more noticeable in many modern vehicles with EPAS systems which basically have zero road feel, albeit some are worse than others to be sure.

I run a telemetry-based tactile set-up on my rig (1 x 100watt and 2 x 20w tactile pucks) via SimHub, which helps out with some of that feel, but it's always going to be an issue with any title.

So because it carries the same name it's obviously a successor?

Once again....

"Project CARS 3 remains, at its core, a Project CARS experience, and with the same philosophy that has always been central to the franchise"

...SMS and the Project Cars website say it is.

I never heard any dev claiming it was a successor to pcars2.

Really? I've quoted the devs saying as much on the very first Developers Blog to you numerous times! I'm not sure how a title that "remains at its core a Project CARS experience" and has the "same philosophy that has always been central to the franchise" can really be read any other way?

 

[Konan]

You seem to have a rather different version of the game to me, as I can feel them quite clearly via a wheel.


I run a telemetry-based tactile set-up on my rig (1 x 100watt and 2 x 20w tactile pucks) via SimHub, which helps out with some of that feel, but it's always going to be an issue with any title.


Once again....

"Project CARS 3 remains, at its core, a Project CARS experience, and with the same philosophy that has always been central to the franchise"

...SMS and the Project Cars website say it is.

So?
What's your point?
It is still a Project CARS experience at its core?

 

[Scaff]

So?
What's your point?
It is still a Project CARS experience at its core?

I've just edited my post to clearly explain that

I never heard any dev claiming it was a successor to pcars2.

Really? I've quoted the devs saying as much on the very first Developers Blog to you numerous times! I'm not sure how a title that "remains at its core a Project CARS experience" and has the "same philosophy that has always been central to the franchise" can really be read any other way?

So you're claiming that while it "remains at its core a Project CARS experience" and has the "same philosophy that has always been central to the franchise", it's not actually a successor to them?

 

[Konan]

I've just edited my post to clearly explain that


Really? I've quoted the devs saying as much on the very first Developers Blog to you numerous times! I'm not sure how a title that "remains at its core a Project CARS experience" and has the "same philosophy that has always been central to the franchise" can really be read any other way?

So you're claiming that while it "remains at its core a Project CARS experience" and has the "same philosophy that has always been central to the franchise", it's not actually a successor to them?

Because: "Project CARS has always been about racing with your heart in your mouth as you push your limits in legendary race cars on epic tracks around the world"

That's the filosophy, which imo they kept true to...

 

[Toblerone]

You seem to have a rather different version of the game to me, as I can feel them quite clearly via a wheel.

What assists do you feel 'quite clearly' through your wheel?

I feel none whatsoever.

 

[Scaff]

Because: "Project CARS has always been about racing with your heart in your mouth as you push your limits in legendary race cars on epic tracks around the world"

That's the filosophy, which imo they kept true to...

Round and around we go...

" what our long term fans want and that’s all there"

...and still, the link between the series is clear to see, and described by the devs themsleves.

What assists do you feel 'quite clearly' through your wheel?

I feel none whatsoever.

Input Smoothing, I've explained it numerous times.

 

[Toblerone]

Input Smoothing, I've explained it numerous times.

Could you explain it again, in detail, just for me.. please?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Konan]

Round and around we go...

" what our long term fans want and that’s all there"

...and still, the link between the series is clear to see, and described by the devs themsleves.



Input Smoothing, I've explained it numerous times.

To me it seems you are the one going round and round...

"Your ultimate driver journey"
That's what it's always been and still is.

 

[davidt33]

.....It's a full on arcade game, nothing about it is even slightly realistic, it's even worse than Forza and Gran Turismo in that aspect.

Not true IMO. It's a pretty good racing sim actually IMO. It's just that you don't have to stop for pit stops which disrupts the racing anyhow. Once I got into it I pretty much enjoyed it perhaps even more so than the previous versions.

 

[Johnnn]

It's just that you don't have to stop for pit stops which disrupts the racing anyhow.

This sentence bothers me the most on PC3. When I saw it first time I thought it must be a joke. It doesn't make any sense to me. But it's great somebody likes it. Hard to imagine PC1 and PC2 fan who would agree with it but who knows.

 

[GTsimms]

It's a full on arcade game, nothing about it is even slightly realistic, it's even worse than Forza and Gran Turismo in that aspect.

You might want to check the video thread videos by @Ak1504

 

[Scaff]

Could you explain it again, in detail, just for me.. please?
Thanks in advance.

No problem, in very simple terms, if to correct for a yaw rate of X degrees you need to apply Y degrees of steering lock and Z% of throttle (as I said this is keeping it simple). Depending on the tyre, speed and yaw rate in question you will have a fudge factor that exists that will allow to catch and hold, just not quite as neatly as getting it spot on.

Simply catching and correcting obviously doesn’t require as much accuracy as holding and maintaining (or increasing) that yaw angle.

What input smoothing does is take your inputs and smooth them out, helping to keep them within these limits. It’s quite different to artificially extending the limits (which is the norm in arcade titles, allowing for absurd raw rates to be managed with ease), as it keeps the reality of the limits of yaw, while allowing the driver to catch, correct and/or hold that yaw more easily than reality would allow.

It’s more obvious on race tyres, as the limits are higher and they are more peaky than road tyres (not to the ‘fall off a cliff’ degree of iRacing.

To me it seems you are the one going round and round...

I’m simply quoting the devs.

"Your ultimate driver journey"
That's what it's always been and still is.

Which would contradict the claim of it not being a successor.

 

[Konan]

I'm afraid we're miles apart on what you or i think about the term "successor"...

 

[Scaff]

I'm afraid we're miles apart on what you or i think about the term "successor"...

Im simply using the standard definition of the word.

“someone or something that follows and takes the job, place, or position that was held by another”
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/successor

Given the standard definition of the word PCars 3 is clearly a successor to PCars 2 (and can still be that and a spiritual successor to Shift - these are not mutually exclusive things).

They don’t have to share the exact same aims or goals to be a successor, that PCars 4 seems to be going back to a more PCars 1 and 2 approach doesn’t stop that being a successor to PCars 3 either.

As an analogy Trump was the successor to Obama as POTUS, despite having very different aims and goal, Biden is the successor to Trump, despite again having very different aims and goals.

To refer back to an example you (by the above definition, misused) previously, The Battlefield series are successors’ to each other, ditto the various arms of the COD series and Assassins Creed series.