Project CARS - Logitech Wheels NOT Supported on PS4

[DrJustice]

My theory is that Thrustmaster have been a good 3rd party and licensed their new wheels to Sony (T80 then t300) including the security chip which is mandatory to allow a peripheral to behave as a full controller. This licensing allowed them to implement relevant drivers into the PS4 OS.
It just so happens that those drivers are 100% compatible with the T100 and T500.... And I suspect all we are seeing is piggy back of the older devices via the drivers for the newer devices. No support as controller in PS4 menus, but useable in game.
Obviously Logitech isn't likely to license a wheel for PS4, so it seems unlikely that there will be any change unless Logitech changes their stance.
But hey, the PS4 is here to stay for 6-8 years. Now granted my G25 still works great and it's from early 2008, but I bet most people will get new wheel hardware at some point. Perhaps at such time as something compelling arrives on console, or instead of upgrading the PC yet again.... And the market will gradually migrate over to supporting the consoles, so this whole discussion will be moot in a few years: Perhaps even "Logi-who?"

Yeah, the T500 compatibility is most likely just lucking out with piggy backing.

There are a lot of perfectly good Logitech wheels in use (if you have a good one it seem to never die), and even if it might not be so in a few years, 'few' can easily mean 3-5 or more, which makes them highly relevant for this console generation.

A poll for which controllers people use at WMD showed that 60.48% use Logitech wheels (almost all G25 and G27), 6.7% use Thrustmaster wheels, 9.24% use Fanatec wheels, and the rest is a mix of other wheels, pads and keyboard. The poll has 3800 participants. Although the exact percentages may have changed as some have bought another wheel, Logitech "wins" by a landslide, and people are still buying them.

This means that in practice these are highly relevant (the most relevant by a good margin!) wheels for the users out there. The fact that Logitech still sells them indicates that they still manufacture them. If Sony is blocking these wheels because of the lack of a PS4 badge, Logitech could quite easily update the badge, provided that they still churn them out. For Logitech/Sony to do something about this would increase the sales of PS4 consoles, Logitech wheels and games. Sony could also relax the PS4 badge requirement, IF that is the blocking factor; that's entirely up to them, it's not exactly in the constitution... This makes it hard to understand why nothing happens. Is it a case of out-of-control protectionism "protecting" several parties from earing money? If so that is bizarre, but entirely plausible .

(Well, it may not really be so hard to understand; see my previous posting in this thread )

 

[jimipitbull]

The Logitech response that you've posted is so badly written, has such poor grammar & is contrary to what they've said previously. With this in mind, I find it pretty hard to believe that this is genuine

Actually, the Logitech response is very similar to what Sony were saying around PS4 launch, that games are able to provide the drivers.

 

[DrJustice]

The sentence "...games are able to provide the drivers..." has been a point of misunderstanding on many occasions. Just to be sure, it bears mentioning again: Yes, but only if they have that driver component, which is made by Logitech and supplied as part of the Playstation SDK.

 

[McKiernan]

Actually, the Logitech response is very similar to what Sony were saying around PS4 launch, that games are able to provide the drivers.

I'm aware of that thanks. In fact if you look a few posts below the one you quoted you would see that I made the point that the very badly written Logitech response was actually what Sony were originally claiming. And it's a bit of a moot point now anyway as Dr Justice has just pointed out ^^^

 

[ChrisWAFC]

What did you pay for the basic wheel once shipping paid and converted to UK?

£329.99 on the Thrustmaster site.

 

[JohnScoonsBeard]

£329.99 on the Thrustmaster site.

Ok, thanks. I was forlornly hoping the price had been slashed.

 

[VBR]

Here's a thought:

So the T500 RS doesn't work in the menus, I'm guessing that means the PS4's menus. But what about in-game menus? GT is the only game I can think of that lets you use both a wheel & joypad to browse in-game menus. If the T500 RS doesn't do this, because it either can't or the game designers haven't programmed it to, then plenty of people will be left with a wheel they can drive with but can't use to navigate the game with.

Has anyone played the PS4 version of Project CARS, & can they confirm whether or not the T500 RS works in the in-game menus, or whether the PS4's joypad works simultaneously with the wheel plugged in too?

 

[skazz]

Has anyone played the PS4 version of Project CARS, & can they confirm whether or not the T500 RS works in the in-game menus, or whether the PS4's joypad works simultaneously with the wheel plugged in too?

Thrustmaster support site information:

Your racing wheel is Force Feedback-capable on PlayStation®4 (*) with:
- DRIVECLUB™ - PS4
- F1 2015 – PS4
- PROJECT CARS - PS4
- THE CREW™ - PS4
- Many other games coming very soon
T500 RS: PlayStation®4 compatibility(*)

(*)This decision is upon each game developer and will therefore vary from racing game to racing game.

In the event of upward compatibility with PS4™ racing games, the T500 RS racing wheel will only be recognized in the game, and not in the console’s menus. Please note that the “SHARE” and “PS” functions will not work on the wheel in PS4™ racing games. Nevertheless you can still use your gamepad for these 2 specific functions.


The text about share/PS not working on wheel inside games tells me the other buttons do work, and also rather implies simultaneous gamepad support inside all games. But I haven't yet experienced a race game using my T500RS on the PS4 of course.

 

[jimipitbull]

I'm aware of that thanks. In fact if you look a few posts below the one you quoted you would see that I made the point that the very badly written Logitech response was actually what Sony were originally claiming. And it's a bit of a moot point now anyway as Dr Justice has just pointed out ^^^

It's not a moot point. Skazz's post above shows us that Thrustmaster is basically saying the same thing as Logitech and Sony.

 

[azidahaka]

What makes me mad is that i got a dfgt after years of waiting before the chipgate appeared.. It took me like 4 years to be able to get the wheel, i'm happy about it but i would have to use a pad.

Not all peoples pockets are shallow as mines, but i may have thought of ps4+project cars with my wheel, it would have been costy but future proof.

Thinking of dishing out around 700 or 800 for ps4+wheel+game or around 900 or more to do the same on pc with an old wheel.

Guess i chose the worst time ever for getting a wheel. Hope gt6 will get some life back since it seems PCars is going to be something i can't allow myself for ages, and gt7 if the wheels gate is here to stay

 

[McKiernan]

It's not a moot point. Skazz's post above shows us that Thrustmaster is basically saying the same thing as Logitech and Sony.

Not really, the difference being that Thrustmaster have made a driver component that is supplied as part of the Playstation SDK and Logitech have not. So game developers cannot support Logitech wheels as there are no drivers for them.

 

[paulpg87]

What makes me mad is that i got a dfgt after years of waiting before the chipgate appeared.. It took me like 4 years to be able to get the wheel, i'm happy about it but i would have to use a pad.

Not all peoples pockets are shallow as mines, but i may have thought of ps4+project cars with my wheel, it would have been costy but future proof.

Thinking of dishing out around 700 or 800 for ps4+wheel+game or around 900 or more to do the same on pc with an old wheel.

Guess i chose the worst time ever for getting a wheel. Hope gt6 will get some life back since it seems PCars is going to be something i can't allow myself for ages, and gt7 if the wheels gate is here to stay

damn, really a bad move. You should have get informed better before making any choice.
However just sell the dfgt and buy a T100 for 90€. I sold my dfgt for 80€. You'll never get to a t300rs priced 369€ but T100 and dfgt are basically the same toy. you lose max 10€.


for all the guys here worried about uber prices of new wheels, i suggest t100, it has force feedback and it's almost like dfgt. For 90€ it's surely better than pad. I'll go for t300rs but i have a wage to waste.

 

[Fryto]

T100 only has a 270° rotation right? That's the dealbreaker for me...
Also the build quality of the wheel seems to be a bit meh.

 

[paulpg87]

T100 only has a 270° rotation right? That's the dealbreaker for me...
Also the build quality of the wheel seems to be a bit meh.

yes, it's low quality. In fact i'll go for t300rs even if super expensive. Off course if you have rigid financial constraints then it's surely a better solution than the pad. For ex drive club in game is locked at 270 degrees. In shift 2 on ps3 (always from SMS) to make it playable i had to scale down to 360 from 900.

However at end my big doubt is: ok, i'm going to buy a t300rs for 370€ cause i really want to play project cars and also enjoy other next gen driving titles like f1.. but then if wheels are supported like crap? On ps3 it was hell to make logitech wheels work properly with all racing games (expect for gt series but the series was crap).. if it's the same with a 370€ i'm gonna get mad.

 

[skazz]

For ex drive club in game is locked at 270 degrees.

Where did you read this?
I've seen plenty of T300RS videos of driveclub where they appear to use more than 270 degrees of rotation....

 

[TayeezSA]

No way I'm buying a T300RS or T500RS, why?

1. Thrustmaster wheels are rare here in South Africa.
2. If I was to import a full set (Pedals and shifter included), it will cost upwards of R10000 (USD$1000) landed.

Why was this such an oversight from Sony? Logitech here in South Africa is quite popular. Finding a DFGT and G27 is very easy. So why must a market be excluded because Sony is in a bit of a mood with Logitech? Fix yo damn self Sony, you're upsetting a lot of people.

 

[paulpg87]

Where did you read this?
I've seen plenty of T300RS videos of driveclub where they appear to use more than 270 degrees of rotation....

i read it in an article which sorry i can't find anymore. They were stating that logitech wheels won't work (only speaking about g27 in the article) and that they decided to lock wheels to 270 to give a more accessible experience. It was reported as text under "" from game developers. I do not have any direct experience or confirmation about it.

 

[paulpg87]

No way I'm buying a T300RS or T500RS, why?

1. Thrustmaster wheels are rare here in South Africa.
2. If I was to import a full set (Pedals and shifter included), it will cost upwards of R10000 (USD$1000) landed.

Why was this such an oversight from Sony? Logitech here in South Africa is quite popular. Finding a DFGT and G27 is very easy. So why must a market be excluded because Sony is in a bit of a mood with Logitech? Fix yo damn self Sony, you're upsetting a lot of people.

i think nobody really cares about wheels users on consoles, too a small %, insignificant. Maybe integrating new wheels requires work both from logitech and sony which is not convinient in terms of P&L.

Here we are in a specialistic forum and seems that wheel is the way to play. For example i do not personally know another gamer with a wheel. Just guys from forum like this.

Off course it was a big let down, my dfgt was working fine and for my standards it was enough to enjoy new games. I'm really pissed off by being forced to a new wheel... but damn i want the game, i want ps4 and so now it's down to me.

 

[A1-242]

The only answer really is to show your distaste for their underhand tactics by using the only power you have, don't buy into it. @TayeezSA. How much does it cost to build a PC in South Africa, PC's are nothing like the old days, I was a construction worker & have built both my son & I computers with no previous knowledge other than playing games on home computers(Amiga, Atari ST, ZX Spectrum) & consoles.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Buying a new wheel is validation of the tactics used to not allow DFGT and other wheels to work.

I will support this game only if it supports my wheel. End of.

 

[A1-242]

Buying a new wheel is validation of the tactics used to not allow DFGT and other wheels to work.

I will support this game only if it supports my wheel. End of.

Project Cars supports DFGT & G25-27 & many other wheels you have never heard of, it even has a profile to set up wheels that it doesn't support. In my eyes it's Sony & Microsoft that doesn't support your wheel.

 

[azidahaka]

a very long debate is going on about this... i guess it's both sides fault since trustmaster says one of his older wheels that do not have the fabled new chip in will work on ps4 with all functions beside the ps4-exclusives ones.

so i guess it's more Software house/ wheel producers deciding the outcome than just sony.

 

[Johnnypenso]

a very long debate is going on about this... i guess it's both sides fault since trustmaster says one of his older wheels that do not have the fabled new chip in will work on ps4 with all functions beside the ps4-exclusives ones.

so i guess it's more Software house/ wheel producers deciding the outcome than just sony.

The responsibility still lies with Sony since they have made the exception available for the T500 without the security chip. Thrustmaster is taking advantage of that exception as any wheelmaker would. Now if what it all means is that Sony can make older wheels like the Logitechs, Fanatecs et al compatible but choose not to, and the whole "security chip" issue is just smoke and mirrors to cover planned obsolescence and Thrustmaster exclusivity...well that's another ballgame altogether.

 

[TayeezSA]

The responsibility still lies with Sony since they have made the exception available for the T500 without the security chip. Thrustmaster is taking advantage of that exception as any wheelmaker would. Now if what it all means is that Sony can make older wheels like the Logitechs, Fanatecs et al compatible but choose not to, and the whole "security chip" issue is just smoke and mirrors to cover planned obsolescence and Thrustmaster exclusivity...well that's another ballgame altogether.

Since I've now heard about the T500RS thing, yeah it has to be smoke and mirrors.

As I've said before, it seems Sony likes to piss off their customers as of late.

 

[JohnScoonsBeard]

Maybe someone with WMD access could ask SMS some or all of the following?

1 - Some future PS4 Project Cars purchasers are in limbo with regards to wheel support. What is The likelihood of the list of PS4 supported wheels including either another manufacturer or additional wheel options by launch date?

2 - Will the motion sensor within the DS4 be supported for wheel turning?

3 - Why do the older Thrustmaster wheels (eg T500 and T100) not need the PS4 security chip when the likes of Fanatec and Logitech do?

4 - Regarding Logitech wheels they could be supported by SMS by writing in game support for it. Warframe have done this for legacy joysticks without PS4 drivers. However maybe if SMS did that it could open up a can of worms with the company who own the license to the Force Feedback system that Logitech wheels use. If that is true has the idea been discussed of giving the wheel owners the option to pay a license for their wheel to work on PS4?

5 - Fanatec say they are willing to make a wheel for consoles and according to them are keen to pay the licence fees. They say they have signed a contract with one console company to allow Fanatec wheels to work (I would hazard a guess it's Xbox One) and they appear to be trying to put pressure on the "other" console maker to allow Fanatec wheels to be licensed. Sony only seem to be supporting Thrustmaster of the proper wheel manufacturers. Is there an early exclusivity deal in place between Sony and Thrustmaster?

Here are a few other thoughts.... too much thinking going on here.

To add to the plot Steam boxes (essentially PC Consoles for the gamer) will launch maybe next year and Project Cars will be on that. It will be interesting to see if Logitech wheels are allowed to work on there.

I have to go with my PS4 for Project Cars currently but a fancy Steambox could be a better next investment rather than a PC. It would just be for gaming. That would mean I wouldn't be spending money paying for something that does more than I need i.e. a Windows PC. Of course it would also depend on the price and performance of the steam boxes. I've read talk of between £500 to £6000 from the cheapest to most expensive of the various makes.

As for wheel..... I'm waiting to see what happens.

 

[DrJustice]

Maybe someone with WMD access could ask SMS some or all of the following?

I don't think they will bee too keen, or even able, to answer those TBH. I'll try my best to give you what I know (with a tiny dash of conjecture...).

1 - Some future PS4 Project Cars purchasers are in limbo with regards to wheel support. What is The likelihood of the list of PS4 supported wheels including either another manufacturer or additional wheel options by launch date?

SMS has been asked that a lot. They will refer you to to http://www.projectcarsgame.com/beyond-reality.html , and ask you to wait and see.

2 - Will the motion sensor within the DS4 be supported for wheel turning?

There's no firm info on that yet. Will pass this one on to SMS.

3 - Why do the older Thrustmaster wheels (eg T500 and T100) not need the PS4 security chip when the likes of Fanatec and Logitech do?

Guaranteed to not be answered directly. This may well be padded by NDAs and the like. There are two possibilities as I see it: 1 - They piggy back on the protocol of the newer wheels. 2 - Thrustmaster has negotiated a deal to make it happen.

4 - Regarding Logitech wheels they could be supported by SMS by writing in game support for it. Warframe have done this for legacy joysticks without PS4 drivers. However maybe if SMS did that it could open up a can of worms with the company who own the license to the Force Feedback system that Logitech wheels use. If that is true has the idea been discussed of giving the wheel owners the option to pay a license for their wheel to work on PS4?

SMS can not support any hardware devices without drivers. A can of worms it is, yes, but not one that SMS can do anything about. Legacy joysticks can be used because they only rely on the standard HID protocol. If a device can piggyback on some existing device support then it may work, but not show up in menus and so on.

5 - Fanatec say they are willing to make a wheel for consoles and according to them are keen to pay the licence fees. They say they have signed a contract with one console company to allow Fanatec wheels to work (I would hazard a guess it's Xbox One) and they appear to be trying to put pressure on the "other" console maker to allow Fanatec wheels to be licensed. Sony only seem to be supporting Thrustmaster of the proper wheel manufacturers. Is there an early exclusivity deal in place between Sony and Thrustmaster??

Fanatec are making new hardware devices in order to get on the PS4 train. More specifically, new console specific rims for their CSW wheel bases, with the "security chip" in them, or more importantly the required deals and licensing. Those wheel rims cost EUR 300 and upwards a pop for the current PCs versions (which "strangely" has an integrated game pad-like device), and needs a EUR 600 wheel base to work. Regarding any deals between Sony and Thrustmaster, SMS is not going to comment on that.

I realize these may not be satisfactory answers, but they are are as close as you'll get, and more than SMS would want or be able to come up with.

As for wheel..... I'm waiting to see what happens.

We all are... Some have abandoned the waiting and taken matters into their own hands by migrating to a platform where things are more transparent and compatibility runs back to "the dawn on man", namely PC. This is not an option for everybody, of course.

Edit: typos

 

[VBR]

All this is making me sick to my stomach. It's really starting to turn me off Sony altogether.

 

[novcze]

3 - Why do the older Thrustmaster wheels (eg T500 and T100) not need the PS4 security chip when the likes of Fanatec and Logitech do?

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1871969&postcount=714

 

[TayeezSA]

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1871969&postcount=714

So according to this, Logitech is the one to blame then? Yet they're still selling their wheels now

 

[notanexpert]

Just got a ps4. Still have the wheel, which I can't use. Deciding whether to sell it on eBay or wait until further news?