Project CARS release date moves to May 2015

[killerjimbag]

So much hate there, I don't hold any grudge or easily pissed on something. My post applies to any management from any form of business regarding release date of a product. Did I gave SMS a lecture ? My post was a few lines about good business practice, did I even mention SMS in specific ?

Good Business practice or reality?
I know in my job,sometimes deadlines can't be met,🤬 happens,if they want it done,they get me help,or it gets delayed or passed on to the next shift. The company takes a financial loss/fine. It happens. I work for Canada's largest meat processing plant,Management tells Costco,Loblaw's,Walmart etc that their product will be there at a specific date,time. It doesn't work that way in real life my friend,suppliers to us have issues,they get fined,trucks break down,we get fined,that's how it works.

 

[SimTourist]

Srsly? Is that why the FM5 Nordschleife generally is considered as the worst of the bunch? It has been tuned and "optimized" on so many places to make it more accessible to average joe. And it's okay, i get that, just cut this laserscan BS.

Sorry, but what? Do you have any proof for Fm5's Nur being tweaked and modified? Maybe you're confusing it with their old versions from previous Forzas? The new one is dramatically different and is one of the best renditions out there.
Here's a fresh vid of Fm5 and AC, both are laserscanned and it shows.

 

[Johnnypenso]

So much hate there, I don't hold any grudge or easily pissed on something. My post applies to any management from any form of business regarding release date of a product. Did I gave SMS a lecture ? My post was a few lines about good business practice, did I even mention SMS in specific ?

My mistake then. I somehow mistook a post in the Project Cars Forum about delaying games and good business practices a a day after a delay was announced as somehow being about Project Cars being delayed. Not sure how that happened.

 

[blowfishrulez]

Sorry, but what? Do you have any proof for Fm5's Nur being tweaked and modified? Maybe you're confusing it with their old versions from previous Forzas? The new one is dramatically different and is one of the best renditions out there.

Every single curb has been flattened in FM5. Its common sense now that it feels wrong, so nobody cares to bring it up for comparisons.

There you go:



EDIT: It's even more obvious in your Video

 

[Speedster911]

Sorry, but what? Do you have any proof for Fm5's Nur being tweaked and modified? Maybe you're confusing it with their old versions from previous Forzas? The new one is dramatically different and is one of the best renditions out there.
Here's a fresh vid of Fm5 and AC, both are laserscanned and it shows.

Ah crap... I can't decide which one looks better!

AC's version seems to look more photo-realistic.. but then there are moments when you see more detail in F5.

AC's wheel animation: magnifique!

FM5's god rays...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I know in my job,sometimes deadlines can't be met,🤬 happens,if they want it done,they get me help,or it gets delayed or passed on to the next shift. The company takes a financial loss/fine. It happens.

Anyone who have worked knows that, a small delay for hours or days is not as bad as several set date moved back in months. Did you delay your work after announcing it will be done on a set time several times, then it keeps going on for months ?

This could have been easily avoided if the dev announced only the year, if they worried of not able to keep the release date on track, better be safe than sorry.
People should also understand that not all preoder are from avid fan or supporter of Pcars. Most of them would be 1st time buyer who should be having a great experience preordering, getting the game on the set date ( on time ) then having that magical time of 1st time playing it.

My mistake then. I somehow mistook a post in the Project Cars Forum about delaying games and good business practices a a day after a delay was announced as somehow being about Project Cars being delayed. Not sure how that happened.

I just happen to read the big news of another delay and share my thought. It was never my intention to offend anyone.

 

[SimTourist]

Every single curb has been flattened in FM5. Its common sense now that it feels wrong, so nobody cares to bring it up for comparisons.

There you go:



EDIT: It's even more obvious in your Video

Have you played FM5 yourself? I have played it a ton and know how it feels. The curbs on Nur can definitely mess you up if you aren't careful in powerfull cars, you feel it through the feedback when you touch them, so I don't know what your issue is.

 

[bleeder]

Is there a way to look that up on amazon, or did you just check the prices form time to time yourself?

no, you just preorder it and if you randomly check your order status now and then it'll show up with the lowest price up to that point. if it goes down again they'll honour that too. one of the benefits or preordering with them.

also happened when i bought a PS4; preordered for £379 with Destiny, was charged £329 because it went down for one day before they lowered the usual price to £349. i dind't even notice until my bro (who did the same) pointed out that he got an email from amazon with the new price. result!

 

[blowfishrulez]

Have you played FM5 yourself? I have played it a ton and know how it feels. The curbs on Nur can definitely mess you up if you aren't careful in powerfull cars, you feel it through the feedback when you touch them, so I don't know what your issue is.

Ah, i have no issue, just corrected your: "Laserscanning gives an edge on accuracy". Now you try to move the discussion away from visible/measurable things to your "feel". Yes i've tried it myself and yes it is fun, but that doesn't make it any more realistic or "better" than any of the other renditions. FM5 wheel ffb is terrible by the way, better stick with a pad (as intended).

EDIT: Your Avatar makes it obvious what your personal preference is. Therefore, any further attempt of rational discussion/criticism seems pointless to me.

 

[killerjimbag]

Anyone who have worked knows that, a small delay for hours or days is not as bad as several set date moved back in months. Did you delay your work after announcing it will be done on a set time several times, then it keeps going on for months ?

This could have been easily avoided if the dev announced only the year, if they worried of not able to keep the release date on track, better be safe than sorry.
People should also understand that not all preoder are from avid fan or supporter of Pcars. Most of them would be 1st time buyer who should be having a great experience preordering, getting the game on the set date ( on time ) then having that magical time of 1st time playing it.



I just happen to read the big news of another delay and share my thought. It was never my intention to offend anyone.

Actually yes it happens all the time,we get beef and pork from all over North America,if a company from High River Alberta is supposed to deliver us a trailer load of striploins and there is a snow storm what do you think happens? Or production breaks down at a pork facility in Iowa. We are late and we get fined and we pass it on to the supplier.

 

[SimTourist]

Ah, i have no issue, just corrected your: "Laserscanning gives an edge on accuracy". Now you try to move the discussion away from visible/measurable things to your "feel". Yes i've tried it myself and yes it is fun, but that doesn't make it any more realistic or "better" than any of the other renditions. FM5 wheel ffb is terrible by the way, better stick with a pad (as intended).

EDIT: Your Avatar makes it obvious what your personal preference is. Therefore, any further attempt of rational discussion/criticism seems pointless to me.

I don't why you're trying to convince anyone that a track made with photos only (PCars) will be as accurate in terms of road surface as the laserscanned versions (Gt,Ac,Fm). We were talking strictly about Pcars and Forza originally and I do believe that a laserscan will inherently mean more detail than just driver feedback and photos.

 

[Termite111]

Laser scanning isn't the be all and end all though.
Brands Hatch is laser scanned in iracing and pcars yet pcars is bumpier which is according to Ben Collins more real life than iracing flatter track.

 

[blowfishrulez]

a track made with photos only (PCars)

Where do you get this baseless assumption from? The inner Fanb0i in you made YOU give an edge of your Nordschleife over the one in PCars...for the wrong reasons, as demonstrated. You saw yourself that the FM5 Nordschleife is not as accurate as you may believe. I've never talked about the PCars Nordschleife for that matter. So here we go: The PCars Nordschleife is very good, accurate and fun to drive. It has weaknesses, just as any other version out there :-)

Also i may quote myself, really nothing to add here:

I have a track record of being really open and interested in all racing sims and i own most of them, including iRacing. I have never said iRacing is "bad" or PCars is "better" than the other. That's a claim i leave to fanb0is all around. In fact, i have my gripes with all of them, but we must separate useless, uneducated chit chat from actual facts to be able to form educated opinions:

It is completely irrelevant for the "feel" of a track if its based on laser scans or not. Every track is visually modelled by the hand of track artists in a CG Software such as 3D Max or Maya and has no direct connection to the noisy point cloud used to get initial measurements. There are more methods than laser scanning available to aquire these inital properties (elevation, banking, width) of a track and every studio, including iRacing, uses highly simplified 3D geometries to keep the frame rate up.

On top of that, a invisible bump map is manually created to feed bumps and track properties into the tire simulation. The resolution of that bump map is just as hilariously rough compared to a real track surface as the 3D Geometry is (for every single racing game). The Quality/Realism of this Bump Map is equally dependent on the talent of the artist as the quality of the visual model is. Thats why input from drivers is important, it will add the important, recognizeable bits and bumps for realism to the simulation.

Laser scanning is one of the good, but slow and expensive methods to aquire real life reference data. For iRacing, it really is more of a marketing bullet point to convince people that their "Simulation Service" must be worth it. And it is, in the same sense "World of Warcraft" is worth every penny to the players paying for it. Users are confident this must be the only available real deal out there and are therefore happy to pay top dollar for outdated (Silverstone, Brands Hatch) or unfinished (Long Beach) tracks.

I'm really looking forward to the Assetto Corsa dream pack and will enjoy the "Laser Scanned" Nordschleife just as much as the ones from GT and PCars. And next time i take a skippy around Mid Ohio in iRacing, i will enjoy it too, mildly looking over all the flaws that come with it :-)

 

[Bealdor]

Laser scanning isn't the be all and end all though.
Brands Hatch is laser scanned in iracing and pcars yet pcars is bumpier which is according to Ben Collins more real life than iracing flatter track.

That's because you can't take a laserscan directly to create a track. You just get a digital "template" and still have to model everything like you'd do with non-LS tracks.

It's like the CAD data for car models.

 

[Myles Prower]

Playground Games make the Horizon titles, Turn 10 the Motorsport titles

They share and optimize each others assets, I'm sure if Forza 6 gets weather it will use Horizons weather effects for example

 

[Termite111]

That's because you can't take a laserscan directly to create a track. You just get a digital "template" and still have to model everything like you'd do with non-LS tracks.

It's like the CAD data for car models.

Exactly correct which just null and voids people's arguments straight away when they say in any game, well so and so is laser scanned so it MUST be better when it's not the case

 

[SimTourist]

Where do you get this baseless assumption from? The inner Fanb0i in you made YOU give an edge of your Nordschleife over the one in PCars...for the wrong reasons, as demonstrated. You saw yourself that the FM5 Nordschleife is not as accurate as you may believe. I've never talked about the PCars Nordschleife for that matter. So here we go: The PCars Nordschleife is very good, accurate and fun to drive. It has weaknesses, just as any other version out there :-)

Also i may quote myself, really nothing to add here:

Again, you're assuming that for some reason Turn10 doesn't acquire feedback from drivers, when in fact they do, just like any other simracer out there. You seem to be pushing some strange agenda against everything forza for no good reason really. All in all it's just splitting hairs for the general public, not many people out there have driven hundreds of laps on the real ring to be able to precisely distinguish the differences between several versions and pinpoint the completely accurate rendition that is without flaws.

 

[blowfishrulez]

you're assuming that for some reason Turn10 doesn't acquire feedback from drivers

So? Where did i do that?

 

[blowfishrulez]

to be pushing some strange agenda against everything forza

So? Where did i do that?

 

[UkHardcore23]

Sorry, but what? Do you have any proof for Fm5's Nur being tweaked and modified? Maybe you're confusing it with their old versions from previous Forzas? The new one is dramatically different and is one of the best renditions out there.
Here's a fresh vid of Fm5 and AC, both are laserscanned and it shows.

Forza 5's Ring is by far the best i've ever raced on, Not sure why Blowfish thinks it's bad and not laser scanned?

 

[blowfishrulez]

Forza 5's Ring is by far the best i've ever raced on, Not sure why Blowfish thinks it's bad and not laser scanned?

It is based on a laser scan, and it is fun. The point is that laserscanning doesn't make for a super accurate or super fun track automatically, nothing else.

 

[SimTourist]

So? Where did i do that?

You've said that FM5's ring is WIDELY accepted as being innaccurate. I called you out on that. On the contrary T10's rendition has received a lot of positive feedback from what I've read on GTP and forza forums.

 

[TokoTurismo]

nvm, it's not worth it.

 

[UkHardcore23]

Every single curb has been flattened in FM5. Its common sense now that it feels wrong, so nobody cares to bring it up for comparisons.

There you go:



EDIT: It's even more obvious in your Video

I've just watched this video and i dont get your "every single curb has been flattened" comment at all. Straight away the first four corners seem identical, Then 3.10-3.15 the curbs seem far higher in Forza 5 than they do in PCars, AC & GT6?? You sure you have watched the video yourself?

 

[psychoazubi]

Guys lets please put an end to this discussion as you will never agree with each other.

Laser scanning is a good base to get the track accurate but it does not guarantee everything is right. Everybody should play whatever he likes. I think the Nordschleife looks good on all games in the videos above. Although, I prefer the (not-laser scanned) version of pcars over the Gt6 version because the Game itself feels better and is more alive.

Edit: Can't say for Forza/Ac versions as I never played them.

 

[talkin_2_me]

no, you just preorder it and if you randomly check your order status now and then it'll show up with the lowest price up to that point. if it goes down again they'll honour that too. one of the benefits or preordering with them.

also happened when i bought a PS4; preordered for £379 with Destiny, was charged £329 because it went down for one day before they lowered the usual price to £349. i dind't even notice until my bro (who did the same) pointed out that he got an email from amazon with the new price. result!

Thanks. I ordered the limited edition from amazon a month ago, and apparently it hasn't dropped a penny yet. And it won't any time soon, either, as it's out of stock now.
So yeah, no refunds for me as it stands.

 

[blowfishrulez]

Guys lets please put an end to this discussion as you will never agree with each other.

Laser scanning is a good base to get the track accurate but it does not guarantee everything is right. Everybody should play whatever he likes. I think the Nordschleife looks good on all games in the videos above. Although, I prefer the (not-laser scanned) version of pcars over the Gt6 version because the Game itself feels better and is more alive.

Edit: Can't say for Forza/Ac versions as I never played them.

Agreed. This is so pointless.

 

[psychoazubi]

Thanks. I ordered the limited edition from amazon a month ago, and apparently it hasn't dropped a penny yet. And it won't any time soon, either, as it's out of stock now.
So yeah, no refunds for me as it stands.

That's the first time I'm happy that a game is out of stock Even if it is only the PS4 LE Edition

 

[Gravitron]

Thread reopened.

 

[notanexpert]

I have just lost all ambition for this game... I even deleted my countdown timer app. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing.