Project CARS release date moves to May 2015

[Speedster911]

So there is nothing possible that goes beyond "what you can see"?

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Can you post the entire paragraph?

So much hate there, I don't hold any grudge or easily pissed on something. My post applies to any management from any form of business regarding release date of a product. Did I gave SMS a lecture ? My post was a few lines about good business practice, did I even mention SMS in specific ?

Exactly. This is just a discussion forum with opinions flying back and forth; at the drop of a hat (or checkered flag) people love jumping on the flame wars bandwagon!

Just out of curiosity, what system did you plan to play it on anyway? Or have you bought a next gen system? Why would you buy a game,if you have no system?

Whatever system runs it better (all signs pointing to PS4 for now). I do not need to buy a system right NOW for a game that's experiencing delays. I'm in no hurry to get a system; whichever one runs games better or generally has better exclusives (according to my tastes) is the one I'm getting. But this begs the question:

Do I NEED to own a system first in order to participate in these discussions?

I suspect these conversations are just too deep and complex for you. You ask for explanations as to why this doesn't happen to T10 so I gave them to you. At what point did you see me say that the delay is ok and that it's good business to delay a game 3 times or that this is good for SMS and their reputation or anything along those lines? Please quote it for me so we can add that to the discussion. You see adults can carry on discussions at various levels, not everything is all emotion and carrying on and ranting and raving and along a single path. It's not all or nothing, hate or love, good or bad. I am fully capable of discussing what I believe is a reasoned an unemotional approach to the reasons for the delay on one hand, and on the other hand still not be happy about the delay.

In the future for your own sake, I suggest you don't ask for an explanation of something you don't understand, when all you really want is to rant and rave and be emotional. There's nothing wrong with that of course, you are free to do that, just don't pretend you actually want some answers when you just want to whine about stuff.

Okay, so I'm whining and being emotional while everybody else is raising legitimate concerns.

Right, very intelligent and adult-like response. 👍

BTW, there's no need to get uber-defensive (along with sore sensitive nipples) when it comes to not sharing opinions with others. You are entitled to yours, and that's okay.

Which brings me back to the original point: I'm not okay with the delays, and many here share the same sentiments. However, you are, and that's fine, believe me, it is!

I have just lost all ambition for this game... I even deleted my countdown timer app. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing.

War... huahh... waat eet eez ee goo fohh, absolutlyy nuuuteeng *Jackie Chan voice*

You point is the sensible one. The in the know one. I respect that. But my point isn't about the quality of the work. It's about the perception of the work. If you hold a treat out for a dog, and pull it away enough times. Sooner or later the dog loses interest an finds something else to chew on. When the news about the delay came out. I text a friend of mine who also has the game preordered to tell him about it, his response was a simple "LOL" That's the sort of perception the game is garnering.

I've stated before, I'm all for the delay. I'm just giving the views of the average Joe. The kind of person who doesn't visit gaming websites, or message boards. The kind of people who pre ordered based on what they saw somewhere at a glance. The kind of person that see articles written with titles like "Project cars delayed AGAIN"

These delays have "Stay away" written all over it for them.

Apparently, that's what the game is at the moment: nothing but an ongoing *project*!

Thank you very much SMS, half the excitement's died down... unless (maybe) you keep and honor your May date!

 

[NLxAROSA]

The world was an order of magnitude less complex. The industry was a magnitude smaller, new release games were still cutting edge,

It's all relative.

True, but organizations/people did not grow/mature at the same rate as the complexity and there's a LOT more money on the line than two decades ago. Doing R&D at the cutting edge these days is both hard and expensive. Gone are the days where a AAA title can be churned out by a handful of people. But I agree this should be put to an end, because it's only going to get worse in the long run (becoming more and more complex, and organizations/people still not being able to keep up). That's why I prefer indie/small developers these days.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

...and just as easily, you could swap SMS and PD around. Some people will give X a break, others, Y. Some might give both, while others neither.

In related news, some people like vanilla ice cream. Some people like chocolate...

That's fine but the two aren't comparable, having bias for something like blue vs red is unexplained. But having bias for one dev over the other is and boils down to irrational. It's silly that people should complain about a small time firm trying to make sure their biggest solo product ever is right so they can not only turn a great amount of profit, but also be able to make sure their investors get a good share as well, to the point they are able to do it again in the future. If that's so difficult to see, then I don't know what else to say.

Also it's not as easily, PD or Rockstar games or any other big time linked with the console company of their choice or several have the money and resources to be on time. They also have the ability to lose profit and recover by not being on time and losing sales or by being on time with their release that has bugs and still losing sales due to it. SMS not so much, and that's why giving one a break over the other is no where near you liking kittens and me liking puppies, there are quite more finer points in the matter.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Also it's not as easily, PD or Rockstar games or any other big time linked with the console company of their choice or several have the money and resources to be on time. They also have the ability to lose profit and recover by not being on time and losing sales or by being on time with their release that has bugs and still losing sales due to it.

And even then, with all their money and all their people, they are not able to always deliver on time and on quality. Which makes the effort of developers like SMS and Kunos even more amazing. 👍

 

[SlipZtrEm]

That's fine but the two aren't comparable

Then stop trying to compare them.

Also it's not as easily, PD or Rockstar games or any other big time linked with the console company of their choice or several have the money and resources to be on time. They also have the ability to lose profit and recover by not being on time and losing sales or by being on time with their release that has bugs and still losing sales due to it. SMS not so much, and that's why giving one a break over the other is no where near you liking kittens and me liking puppies, there are quite more finer points in the matter.

Unless you're going to find specific instances of members who are doing what you're suggesting (letting big companies off the hook on delays, while also getting upset with this current PCARS delay), the whole statement is a non-issue, as that's the only way any supposed double-standard would exist.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Then stop trying to compare them.

How am I trying to compare them, you said "in other related news..." I'm saying those portions to me aren't comparable.

Unless you're going to find specific instances of members who are doing what you're suggesting (letting big companies off the hook on delays, while also getting upset with this current PCARS delay), the whole statement is a non-issue, as that's the only way any supposed double-standard would exist.

True, but going through the thread I recall seeing less animosity about delays in certain other games than this (also among certain users), I thought it'd be better to comment on a general standard oh people seem to react. No one is really loyal (other than investors) to this group or game but people who are fans of a long time genre will defend it thick and thin when this happens. That was part of my. The main point however still stands, why complain at all about this as I've explained already in length.

 

[Brend]

Games like that are still released without delays today, because they're an order of magnitude less complex. E.g. your average mobile game.

Yeah, you're right. I'm sure when the developers were making games from technology relevant to their time it wasn't very complex at all?


Seems to be a pretty moot point in all honesty, games can only be made with the tools that are provided. If anything game development is easier than ever. More complex sure but with a ton more help than Miyamoto, Yuji Naka and co. had when they first started out. Same goes for any time-period. It's easy for me to do a lot of stuff which would have been unthinkable back then. Imagine trying to code the first large RPG with the technologies that were available during very early gaming? They would have took at least 1000% more effort than your 'average mobile game' since most are built from foundations that are already in place with recycled assets other people have made.

 

[jimipitbull]

True, but organizations/people did not grow/mature at the same rate as the complexity and there's a LOT more money on the line than two decades ago. Doing R&D at the cutting edge these days is both hard and expensive. Gone are the days where a AAA title can be churned out by a handful of people. But I agree this should be put to an end, because it's only going to get worse in the long run (becoming more and more complex, and organizations/people still not being able to keep up). That's why I prefer indie/small developers these days.

Ghosts'n'goblins set the benchmark back in 1985. To this day, 98% of modern AAA titles fall short.

 

[NLxAROSA]

If anything game development is easier than ever.

Sure, that's why every triple A title has either delays, crappy quality or both. Game development is harder, more expensive and more complex than it ever was, especially when you're running at the forefront of R&D (e.g. continuously doing things that have never been done before).

 

[Brend]

Sure, that's why every triple A title has either delays, crappy quality or both. Game development is harder, more expensive and more complex than it ever was, especially when you're running at the forefront of R&D (e.g. continuously doing things that have never been done before).

Most 'AAA' titles are designed with one thing in mind - Profit with as little quality as possible. It's no secret that a lot of games are made now purely to generate hype and once they come out left to die for 11 months till the next game comes out.

It's a horrendous cycle, but we shouldn't be excusing the advancements made in video game development because organizations like Ubisoft and EA churn out 🤬 every year. Likewise for 'mobile gaming' if it can even be called that, the most popular games are all cookie cutter crap that can be made by a bunch of people who have been coding for 3 months.

Project CARS can be excused for it's delays on the basis of what it is doing different. It isn't ideal that it is being held back but I can understand the issues. For most other developers, especially those in AAA development, I try to hold my tongue. Like I stated before too, I have no doubt that publishers are also playing the 'big bad' by constantly pushing teams to work way too hard and create way too ambitious games for the technology they can run on.

Who's taking bets 'The Division', a supposedly 'true next gen experience' will be average and forgotten about within 2 weeks until it's sequel is out?

 

[mister dog]

but we shouldn't be excusing the advancements made in video game development because organizations like Ubisoft and EA churn out 🤬 every year.

There you have it, it's specifically those 2 devs that just rehash games with graphical updates whilst adding nothing significant to the experience. Sadly it works with the punters as FIFA sells like hotcakes all over Europe for example whilst the gameplay is basically still the same as 3 years ago.

As long as you stay clear of that sort of copy-pasted games, the general state of AAA titles isn't as bad as people make it out to be, so much games are that impressive graphically and gameplay wise nowadays... the stuff we could only dream about when we were starting out with videgames in the 90's.

 

[Speedster911]

Most 'AAA' titles are designed with one thing in mind - Profit with as little quality as possible. It's no secret that a lot of games are made now purely to generate hype and once they come out left to die for 11 months till the next game comes out.

It's a horrendous cycle, but we shouldn't be excusing the advancements made in video game development because organizations like Ubisoft and EA churn out 🤬 every year. Likewise for 'mobile gaming' if it can even be called that, the most popular games are all cookie cutter crap that can be made by a bunch of people who have been coding for 3 months.

Project CARS can be excused for it's delays on the basis of what it is doing different. It isn't ideal that it is being held back but I can understand the issues. For most other developers, especially those in AAA development, I try to hold my tongue. Like I stated before too, I have no doubt that publishers are also playing the 'big bad' by constantly pushing teams to work way too hard and create way too ambitious games for the technology they can run on.

Who's taking bets 'The Division', a supposedly 'true next gen experience' will be average and forgotten about within 2 weeks until it's sequel is out?

I'm all for delays as long as they are meaningful and add to the overall depth and polish of the game. One's okay. Most gamers are willing to let a second one slip.

But one more after this is a little too much.

 

[GTP_Monkey]

Ha Ha Amazon UK still showing 2nd April for delivery.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Okay, so I'm whining and being emotional while everybody else is raising legitimate concerns.

Right, very intelligent and adult-like response. 👍

BTW, there's no need to get uber-defensive (along with sore sensitive nipples) when it comes to not sharing opinions with others. You are entitled to yours, and that's okay.

Which brings me back to the original point: I'm not okay with the delays, and many here share the same sentiments. However, you are, and that's fine, believe me, it is!

You asked for answers twice and got them. We're not talking about opinions, you wanted to know why T10 didn't delay games and SMS did. When you got answers you didn't like you said you didn't understand them and then turned around and made it about me, which you are doing again here. Not sure how anyone could not understand 10x the budget and 4x the staff and a smaller game makes it easier to meet deadlines but making it personal about me isn't going to do you any favours. If you don't want answers or are not going to accept them when you get them, stop asking questions, just post your opinion and you are free to fly off the handle and throw your toys out of the pram like some others seem to want to do, which you seem to be very good at.

Again, because I continually have to point out the obvious, no one is happy about the delay and we all realize this isn't doing SMS any favours and yes it would have been better to have a release schedule and stick to it. In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet. However, the game is delayed, there are reasons for it obviously otherwise it would have been released. SMS isn't getting a "pass", just an explanation.

 

[Sureboss]

Sure, that's why every triple A title has either delays, crappy quality or both. Game development is harder, more expensive and more complex than it ever was, especially when you're running at the forefront of R&D (e.g. continuously doing things that have never been done before).

So much this.

It's a shame to hear of the delays, but not surprising.

 

[catamount39]

Ha Ha Amazon UK still showing 2nd April for delivery.

Yeah I guess they weren't given the news. Mine still says April 7th (US)...darn.

 

[bleeder]

Ha Ha Amazon UK still showing 2nd April for delivery.

i got an email from them apologizing for the delay and that they don't know when the new release date will be

 

[DrJustice]

Back in the 80's and 90's..... atari 2600, commodore 64, sega megadrive, N64, PS1 etc..... there weren't any delays as such.

Games just appeared without warning and no one complained.

Gamers were much happier back then.

Regards, Generation X

This is so true. I've been a gamer and a programmer for 30++ years, and what has happened in that time is quite amazing, both on a technological and cultural level.

In the beginning we didn't know much about what was happening. Suddenly an ad for a game appeared in a computer mag and you'd order the cassette, often with a less than vague idea about what you'd be getting. When the tape arrived, we'd be chuffed if it loaded on the first attempt. We'd be elated over the game whatever it was, pretty much fascinated by the very idea of video gaming. If the game crashed, we'd think nothing of it and load it up again. We were in awe of the cool guys making these games. We'd have our mates around, and everyone would be positive and happy about the few pixels moving about and the monotonic, yet challenging, gameplay.

Now we get to know everything about the games a long time before the releases. Some study the games in detail for months or years before they see them first hand. Long before release, the games are critiqued and praised, hated and loved - the games themselves are now of bottomless complexity compared to the olden days, so there's no end of subjects to discuss. "Are there visible artefacts with the MSXSSAFGSSOTXA anti aliasing? Should I use Haible filmic or photographic HDR? Is there something not 100% about the exposure? Is the shader for the metallic paint correct? Is the alloy in the front springs correct? That lap time is 0.02 secs off real life! I can't live without feature X. I'll not buy it if it has feature Y! Why isn't it released yet? It has been 20 years in development! They owe me!". Everybody whipping each other into a frenzy. It's hard not to get swept up in it all; I'm guilty as charged too.

Regarding the difficulty and challenges of making these games, it can't even be compared as we've gone from one man coding a simple game for a few months in his bedroom, to huge contractually bound teams coding a very complex games for multiple platforms. Todays games require top notch expertise in a number of areas such as several branches of physics, advanced 3D graphics, audio engineering, art, design etc., and hundreds of man years are sunk into the development.

BTW, I'm not getting at anyone with this, it's just a reflection on the big shifts video gaming has seen since its beginnings. Me, I'm pretty happy overall since the games we have today weren't even something we dared dream about back then

Regards, early Generation X


P.S. I made this earlier, It might still be useful as a reminder of where things has gotten to:

 

[Wolfe]

Sure, that's why every triple A title has either delays, crappy quality or both. Game development is harder, more expensive and more complex than it ever was, especially when you're running at the forefront of R&D (e.g. continuously doing things that have never been done before).

You're both right. @Classic is right that games development is unequivocally easier than it has ever been before. You're right that blockbuster AAA games are prohibitively expensive and time-consuming to make.

Pushing the boundaries of what's possible is great, but stumbling and failing at it is not, and not everyone has to push those boundaries. Not everyone is doing so anyway. The only reason games development is difficult for AAA devs is because of the path they've chosen. Of course, you can't entirely blame them for chasing after what the average consumer wants.

If you're a bit of an "old school" type like me, small teams of indie devs are making vastly better games than what the AAA industry dumps on the market year after year. Rather than exploring ways to render the individual nose hairs on your gritty gun-toting hero, indie devs are exploring ways to innovate gameplay and build upon genres that AAA devs have effectively abandoned. They also cover artistic/musical styles that you won't ever find in any photorealistic AAA title.

Project CARS is an anomaly in that it seems to cover both fronts -- pushing boundaries on graphics while innovating racing games. Maybe it just goes to show how stale the console sim and PC sim paradigms have become.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Brilliant. May I borrow it from time to time?

 

[rambo793]

I hope you are all aware of the new developer video they released and the four new tracks revealed? - http://throwingdigitalsheep.com/tracks-qualifying-project-cars-delay-banter/

 

[FinnZevo]

It's official. The release has been delayed, again:
http://www.wmdportal.com/projectnews/project-cars-release-date-moves-to-may-2015/

Sorry i made a thread about this,i didnt see this thread

 

[FinnZevo]

Absolutely mind-boggling ridiculous...

Im really upset about this,but im sure the game will be great..

 

[Peasantslayer]

That should be the main header on every gaming website.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Well I thought the first delay was bad enough, let alone another one. I genuinely want to get my hands on this game sooner rather than later, but if it fixes up the bugs then maybe it isn't so bad. My concern is that the game will not be bug free and I would feel as though my money was wasted.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Well I was looking forward to the game being here soon and am a little let down by the news but at the same time I am also a bit relieved by it as I just got 2 small projects and 1 large one to do that would have overlapped with the game release and given the fact that I work from home it can be hard to resist playing that new game when I should be working so for me maybe it is a good thing.

I just hope this is not a trend of things to come.

 

[notanexpert]

One thing though, if the last 2 delays are for polish, I feel people will tear this game up if there is so much as a tree 3 miles away from a track that has some texture flicker.

 

[Johnnypenso]

One thing though, if the last 2 delays are for polish, I feel people will tear this game up if there is so much as a tree 3 miles away from a track that has some texture flicker.

You're right, but I think this would have happened anyway to some extent.

 

[FuriousDemon]

You're right, but I think this would have happened anyway to some extent.

Exactly. Don't worry, I'm sure there will still be some minor bugs, and I'm sure there will be flicker here and there.

 

[TT92]

Here are some random thoughts in no particular order about this last delay.

Yes, I am annoyed/disappointed because I still have a T300 wheel that is of no real use to me (yet) since last October and ready for the first release date.

So SMS recon that the game is 99.9% finished and they want to polish it some more. Sounds legit to me BUT aren't they setting themselves up for a HUGE fall when it is finally released and it still has bugs? Would it have been better to release "nearly finished" and have the excuse "Well it was only nearly finished but wanted to honour our release date promise". Well one of them anyway ;-)

What game have you bought in the last two years that did NOT require some huge download as soon as it was installed?

There is nothing that could not be fixed by DLC. Unless it was a Drive Club fiasco where Sony stepped in and canned the whole project and sent it back the drawing board that cost another year. AND IT STILL DID NOT WORK ON DAY ONE!

The rumour is the delay is caused by the XBone not having the "guts" to run this at 60fps/1080P so why not release for PS4? That is, apart from politics and MS getting it's knickers in a twist and who amongst us would not ultimately enjoy seeing that? I know I would :-))

As always it is interesting reading all the pro/anti sentiment on these matters and how passionate both sides get about it ;-) Ultimately we are all disappointed and even more so when we realise we are stuck with GT6 for another month :-(

Speaking of GT6, didn't this set the bench mark for releasing a half assed, half finished, buggy, glitchy and still not complete game that still has the same online bugs from day one? GT6 fans would only dream of having it 99.9% complete or even 90% complete would do :-)

I think this last delay will have damaged the brand and another delay will probably finish it. You can only mislead/lie/con/misrepresent/deceive/procrastinate/tinker/**** with/ (chose your own word) for so long before you lose all credibility with your customer base. Drive Club found this, I (and others) cancelled our pre-orders and never went back.

And lastly, wouldn't it be nice if SMS actually told us the truth about what the real reason was? Wouldn't it save all this innuendo and supposition? And arguing ;-) I am sure most of would take it like adults and probably even support the decision (unless it was XBone related) :-))

<Flame Suit ON> Ready for the inevitable tirade ;-)