Project Cars vs. Forza 6 - Poll added September 18th

[ImaRobot]

There have been reports and confirmation by some Pcars players, that camber is broken, zero camber gives better lap time and tire wear, SMS devs confirmed the camber issue, they are investigating and working on it, but might be awhile to get a fix. So, FM6 might have a lead on this one. Not to mention the landmines ( confirmed caused by suspension geometry solver code, accumulating toe as the car driven at the track ), the fix has been said to be found but not yet implemented/released as a patch.

While Fm6, a member here is investigating suspension physics, in particular ARB which reportedly have little effect on some cars.

Nothing is perfect

Land mines, I remember when I encountered that I was so confused!

As for the ARB's, the tests the person is doing is a bit odd. He is claiming the tuning for springs doesnt work like its described in the in game descriptions, and that he seems to be having opposite effects of what its supposed to be doing. Although after testing from multiple members, this doesn't seem to be the case. ARB's while on some cars may not make much a difference, there are definitely cars that get great aid from it. Not to put the person down, but when other members try to recreate the users problem, they do not encounter what he seems to talk about. Although ARB strength is a factor for some cars.

No one is claiming perfection.

 

[SlyNine]

Land mines, I remember when I encountered that I was so confused!

As for the ARB's, the tests the person is doing is a bit odd. He is claiming the tuning for springs doesnt work like its described in the in game descriptions, and that he seems to be having opposite effects of what its supposed to be doing. Although after testing from multiple members, this doesn't seem to be the case. ARB's while on some cars may not make much a difference, there are definitely cars that get great aid from it. Not to put the person down, but when other members try to recreate the users problem, they do not encounter what he seems to talk about. Although ARB strength is a factor for some cars.

No one is claiming perfection.

The tuning in FM6 seems to be okay on the cars I've done. Haven't done any tuning in Pcars so I couldn't comment on that. But if it is true, I think that it goes to show all these claims of "better physics" are made with out really testing anything. Claims of better physics with no evidence/testing are baseless assertions. Even if there's a lot of information on SMS physics model there is very little about T10's physics model, except what we can gather from playing it.

The best I can say is I use real world tuning methods and it achieves good results in FM. Pretty much anything I look for in a cars behavior is represented in FM. There's some funny business with the rumble strips, however. Also low and high speed dampening needs to be implemented.

 

[IceMan PJN]

There are certain specific things I prefer in Project CARS. Through my Thrustmaster I felt that I could feel my cars way better and felt like I had more feedback through the wheel in CARS, the proper race weekends with practice, qualifying, and the race were nice, being able to choose if I want longer or shorter sessions was nice, chamopionships with accumulating points were nice, and dynamic day/night and weather were nice. Not so nice were inconsistent and sometimes woeful frame rates, generally inferior graphics, lifeless presentation, a tiny fraction of the content, features like blue flags that never actually worked, horrible graphic and audio bugs, questionable menu layout (by default it selects stuff like restarting my career or quitting a race I just won) and unforgivable bugs like completely corrupting my entire game save and forcing me to start over because I saved some race replays.

At the bottom line, as a complete package Forza is better. While this may come down to personal preference, the general consensus among both regular players and professional reviewers is that Forza Motorsport 6 is clearly better, especially comparing to the console versions of CARS.

 

[ImaRobot]

The tuning in FM6 seems to be okay on the cars I've done. Haven't done any tuning in Pcars so I couldn't comment on that. But if it is true, I think that it goes to show all these claims of "better physics" are made with out really testing anything. Claims of better physics with no evidence/testing are baseless assertions. Even if there's a lot of information on SMS physics model there is very little about T10's physics model, except what we can gather from playing it.

The best I can say is I use real world tuning methods and it achieves good results in FM. Pretty much anything I look for in a cars behavior is represented in FM. There's some funny business with the rumble strips, however. Also low and high speed dampening needs to be implemented.

It was tested by several members and shown that what he is experiencing is something with him, as no one was able to recreate the effects he was describing. He has since said that he thinks his wheel might be the issue. Yet, with Ridox only reading the very first comment, he would have been able to see that if he continued on. Likewise, like you, my settings work as they are intended to. You're right, that there are some that throw the better physics around without testing, but there is a handful that actually will post decent information between the two games with good explanations, they tend to stick out more then the blatant finger pointers.

 

[svenvangent]

There are certain specific things I prefer in Project CARS. Through my Thrustmaster I felt that I could feel my cars way better and felt like I had more feedback through the wheel in CARS, the proper race weekends with practice, qualifying, and the race were nice, being able to choose if I want longer or shorter sessions was nice, chamopionships with accumulating points were nice, and dynamic day/night and weather were nice. Not so nice were inconsistent and sometimes woeful frame rates, generally inferior graphics, lifeless presentation, a tiny fraction of the content, features like blue flags that never actually worked, horrible graphic and audio bugs, questionable menu layout (by default it selects stuff like restarting my career or quitting a race I just won) and unforgivable bugs like completely corrupting my entire game save and forcing me to start over because I saved some race replays.

At the bottom line, as a complete package Forza is better. While this may come down to personal preference, the general consensus among both regular players and professional reviewers is that Forza Motorsport 6 is clearly better, especially comparing to the console versions of CARS.

You forgot ......
1 . Big online issues where the wheel has no same feeling as when you practice offline .
2 . Where the steering wheel has a crack when turning , off or online .
3 . Stuttering when someone comes in or out in a online race .
4 . While driving online in qualifying cars can freeze for a second .
5 . Landmine , off and online .
6 . Invisibly walls , off and online .
7 . Losing control of the car for no reason .
And NR 8 this to end the sad storry , crash to the main menu off PS4 .
This still after patch 4.0 .
This 99.9 % no lies.

 

[GumShoe]

You forgot ......
1 . Big online issues where the wheel has no same feeling as when you practice offline .
2 . Where the steering wheel has a crack when turning , off or online .
3 . Stuttering when someone comes in or out in a online race .
4 . While driving online in qualifying cars can freeze for a second .
5 . Landmine , off and online .
6 . Invisibly walls , off and online .
7 . Losing control of the car for no reason .
And NR 8 this to end the sad storry , crash to the main menu off PS4 .
This still after patch 4.0 .
This 99.9 % no lies.

99.9%?

 

[Haulin_Hebrew]

I have almost caved in to buying a Xbox one for Forza a few times. I too, am very curious on what the differences and comparables are.

Walmart has a 15 day return policy, if you get the Limited Edition Xbox one Forza 6 Console for $399.00, you can try the system with the FM6 download, and if you don't like it just return it for a full refund, and since the game comes with the LE FM6 XB1 Console, you are not stuck with the disc to resale either because it is part of the system, Win Win. And If you want to return The LE FM6 XB1 Console in exchange for a refurbished Xbox One Console, for $283.00 with 3year warranty and buy a hard copy or download FM6, you can do that too, but remember, YOU ONLY HAVE 15 DAYS FROM PURCHASE DATE TO RETURN THE XBOX ONE FOR A FULL REFUND.

 

[svenvangent]

99.9%?

The magical 99.9 % number , you don't know the story behind this magic number?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Gamespot's take on the debate:

 

[killerjimbag]

Gamespot's take on the debate:

Sooooo,that was a waste of time!

 

[Myles Prower]

As someone who is spoiled for choice in driving games Forza 6, if I want a proper racing game I would play iRacing, Forza is more focused on being fun and I don't always want to race seriously and would like a few 5 lap blasts in Forza leagues which work pretty well, its also more open to my friends. For me on PC and X1 PCARS right now seems to be in this void between the 2 which isn't appealing.

 

[Haulin_Hebrew]

I noticed that Josef Newgarden said he was faster in real life than he is in Forza Motorsport 5, without the danger factor you would assume a pro driver would be faster in a game with good physics, Even though this compilation of Pro Race Driver opinion is a good start. I would love to see one non-sponsored pro driver take a comparison test for Assetto Corsa, Project CARS, GT7 and Forza Motorsport 6, in a car that is in all the Sim Racers compared to the real car on the same track, because a couple of the pros are sponsored by the developer of the game they endorse, but I'm sure there is some truth within the endorsement.

 

[SlyNine]

I noticed that Josef Newgarden said he was faster in real life than he is in Forza Motorsport 5, without the danger factor you would assume a pro driver would be faster in a game with good physics, Even though this compilation of Pro Race Driver opinion is a good start. I would love to see one non-sponsored pro driver take a comparison test for Assetto Corsa, Project CARS, GT7 and Forza Motorsport 6, in a car that is in all the Sim Racers compared to the real car on the same track, because a couple of the pros are sponsored by the developer of the game they endorse, but I'm sure there is some truth within the endorsement.

It starts off. Hey guys, Anthony here for Sony... If you can't see it's just PR I don't know what to tell you. It just goes to show you that anyone can get a race car driver to say their game is great.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I noticed that Josef Newgarden said he was faster in real life than he is in Forza Motorsport 5, without the danger factor you would assume a pro driver would be faster in a game with good physics, Even though this compilation of Pro Race Driver opinion is a good start. I would love to see one non-sponsored pro driver take a comparison test for Assetto Corsa, Project CARS, GT7 and Forza Motorsport 6, in a car that is in all the Sim Racers compared to the real car on the same track, because a couple of the pros are sponsored by the developer of the game they endorse, but I'm sure there is some truth within the endorsement.

So you're taking other peoples' work, rebranding it as your own video without due credit, and then also grabbing this stuff from sponsored sources?

Yep. That'll get us the unbiased views we need.

 

[SlyNine]

So you're taking other peoples' work, rebranding it as your own video without due credit, and then also grabbing this stuff from sponsored sources?

Yep. That'll get us the unbiased views we need.

I think it's main point is that comparing titles based on x or y race car driver is pointless. Because they all can get a driver to say how great the game is. It just uses PR video's from each company to prove it's point.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I think it's main point is that comparing titles based on x or y race car driver is pointless. Because they all can get a driver to say how great the game is. It just uses PR video's from each company to prove it's point.

Ah. Well it definitely drives that point home, then! Still doesn't really make up for the lack of sourcing, IMO. Poor form.

I'd generally agree. I'm not surprised Newgarden is faster in real life than in Forza; he's a professional race car driver, while he probably rarely plays games. The folks in, say, GTP's WRS have sunk untold hours into the game.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

It is hard for me to pick any choice in the poll as none of them quite fit.
First of all I have PCars on the PC and use a good wheel so I have had a better experience with it than most console users.
Forza on the other hand has features I like that are not in project cars so in that aspect I like Forza better.
Project cars has a better feel, better tuning, and on the PC better leaderboards though not enough people on them.

If the physics, tuning and FFB in Forza were equal to PCars then it would be Forza but.. PCars wins in those areas.
On the same note if PCars had used a credit system and allowed you to buy, customize and upgrade the cars then I likely would not have bother with Forza 6 at all.

Then again If GT would have had a proper set of leaderboards and better tuning options I might not have bothered with either of them

 

[Bjorn Lucas]

It is hard for me to pick any choice in the poll as none of them quite fit.
First of all I have PCars on the PC and use a good wheel so I have had a better experience with it than most console users.
Forza on the other hand has features I like that are not in project cars so in that aspect I like Forza better.
Project cars has a better feel, better tuning, and on the PC better leaderboards though not enough people on them.

If the physics, tuning and FFB in Forza were equal to PCars then it would be Forza but.. PCars wins in those areas.
On the same note if PCars had used a credit system and allowed you to buy, customize and upgrade the cars then I likely would not have bother with Forza 6 at all.

Then again If GT would have had a proper set of leaderboards and better tuning options I might not have bothered with either of them

why do you want credits to buy stuff???

I get it people would want more to customize,.. but why the grind for credits??
i love that in project cars you can do anything you like,, it also is good so that you can discover cars else you would not drive.

In Forza 6 i have all the cars i want (level 60) and i only race with them,...
i project cars i have all cars and also play with almost all of them...

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

why do you want credits to buy stuff???

I get it people would want more to customize,.. but why the grind for credits??
i love that in project cars you can do anything you like,, it also is good so that you can discover cars else you would not drive.

In Forza 6 i have all the cars i want (level 60) and i only race with them,...
i project cars i have all cars and also play with almost all of them...

Well for one thing that gives more incentive to race. In real life you earn money for winning races, you get money from sponsors and it costs money to buy. build and repair cars. I've not saw any game where I really enjoyed a sand box mode that allowed me to just do anything I want. I would much rather have to work a little to get to the car I want.

As for grinding, that term gets thrown out a lot on this site but really is a silly thing to say. I don't know about you but I buy racing games to race. I call that racing not grinding. It just so happens that in a racing game you might have to win several races in order to get enough credits to buy the car you want.

I like collecting cars and I like the fact that you have to work to get a bunch of them in games like GT and Forza. I also like to customize them. In PCars I can just jump in any car I want anytime I want and race but I can not own any of them no matter how many races I win. I can't even set my favorite livery on the car and have it be there the next time I drive it. Instead I have to pick the livery every single time.

Anyway I know some people like sandbox modes and being able to do anything without having to earn it but to me that removes a lot from the game and I hope games like Forza and GT never go that route.

In Forza 6 I have a lot of cars and will continue to buy more. I don't even know what level I am somewhere in the 200s and probably have between 150 and 200 cars at present and over 10 million credits on hand to buy and upgrade more of them.

I love the way the cars drive in PCars, I love the tuning on some of them but it would be so much better if I could buy the cars and add parts to them and then be able to tune the street cars up like you can the race cars rather than only being able to change the tire pressure and ffb on them. To do that a credit system needs to be in place and then the game would be more appealing to GT and Forza players. There would be the few complaining about not being able to buy the most expensive car in the game right out of the box but there would be more that would get more enjoyment out of it.

 

[FuriousDemon]

Problem with Forza is races are so short and AI bad that you're not racing, you're grinding. If they had pCARS AI and longer races, I would totally agree with you there. In terms of AI they seem to be able to actually have semi-decent AI actually, but their problem is only AI in P1 is competitive, the rest are just targets for you to overtake in 2-3 laps. Since you have to come in P3+ you need to dumb them down, because you almost have no time to push through the field unless you have a very good start. So maybe it's actually the design problem rather than AI.

 

[Bjorn Lucas]

Well for one thing that gives more incentive to race. In real life you earn money for winning races, you get money from sponsors and it costs money to buy. build and repair cars. I've not saw any game where I really enjoyed a sand box mode that allowed me to just do anything I want. I would much rather have to work a little to get to the car I want.

As for grinding, that term gets thrown out a lot on this site but really is a silly thing to say. I don't know about you but I buy racing games to race. I call that racing not grinding. It just so happens that in a racing game you might have to win several races in order to get enough credits to buy the car you want.

I like collecting cars and I like the fact that you have to work to get a bunch of them in games like GT and Forza. I also like to customize them. In PCars I can just jump in any car I want anytime I want and race but I can not own any of them no matter how many races I win. I can't even set my favorite livery on the car and have it be there the next time I drive it. Instead I have to pick the livery every single time.

Anyway I know some people like sandbox modes and being able to do anything without having to earn it but to me that removes a lot from the game and I hope games like Forza and GT never go that route.

In Forza 6 I have a lot of cars and will continue to buy more. I don't even know what level I am somewhere in the 200s and probably have between 150 and 200 cars at present and over 10 million credits on hand to buy and upgrade more of them.

I love the way the cars drive in PCars, I love the tuning on some of them but it would be so much better if I could buy the cars and add parts to them and then be able to tune the street cars up like you can the race cars rather than only being able to change the tire pressure and ffb on them. To do that a credit system needs to be in place and then the game would be more appealing to GT and Forza players. There would be the few complaining about not being able to buy the most expensive car in the game right out of the box but there would be more that would get more enjoyment out of it.

everybody has their on tastes,.. but the reward in project cars is the racing itself for me,..
tuning your car so it suits your upcoming race and getting a good result.

i like all kinds of racing games, but i never have played a racing for more than 200 hours,... and i still am deeply in love with project cars.

I like forza, but i play it for the new tracks, and playing around with some cars on those tracks.


You can try so much in project cars if you have a bit of imagination
yesterday i thought of doing the nordschleife in a formula a car in the night during a thunderstorm
(formula a has no lights, but with thunderstorms you should have some light )
gonna do it somewhere in the upcoming days

 

[bleeder]

Problem with Forza is races are so short and AI bad that you're not racing, you're grinding. If they had pCARS AI and longer races, I would totally agree with you there. In terms of AI they seem to be able to actually have semi-decent AI actually, but their problem is only AI in P1 is competitive, the rest are just targets for you to overtake in 2-3 laps. Since you have to come in P3+ you need to dumb them down, because you almost have no time to push through the field unless you have a very good start. So maybe it's actually the design problem rather than AI.

And it's always been like this in Forza games which is why my interest in them wanes fairly quickly. You're right, it's a design choice for sure. You end up with a couple of fast cars up front and you basically are only racing them. pCARS has it so much better, even with the divebombing and disregard for self-preservation from the AI.

 

[ImaRobot]

And it's always been like this in Forza games which is why my interest in them wanes fairly quickly. You're right, it's a design choice for sure. You end up with a couple of fast cars up front and you basically are only racing them. pCARS has it so much better, even with the divebombing and disregard for self-preservation from the AI.

That is apparently an error with the AI getting pulled from faster classes. They are supposedly working on a fix and implemented something that should alleviate it in the mean time, but I have yet to actually test it out. The highest setting can produce some desirable effects, but for the most part, the AI is still slow in general. If there where longer races then the AI would be easy to overcome. They are definitely faster than the where last game though, that's for sure, yet they still haven't reached that sweet spot.

I, however, never really got a thrill from racing AI in most any game, that mostly comes from multiplayer for me.

 

[UkHardcore23]

Gamespot's take on the debate:

when the guy shouts "i dont like Driveclub"

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Problem with Forza is races are so short and AI bad that you're not racing, you're grinding. If they had pCARS AI and longer races, I would totally agree with you there. In terms of AI they seem to be able to actually have semi-decent AI actually, but their problem is only AI in P1 is competitive, the rest are just targets for you to overtake in 2-3 laps. Since you have to come in P3+ you need to dumb them down, because you almost have no time to push through the field unless you have a very good start. So maybe it's actually the design problem rather than AI.

I do not do career mode in Forza hardly at all. You are right the races are mostly to short and the AI is not good.
Luckily you do not have to do that in Forza. You can race online and earn your credits, you can race in public lobbies or private lobbies you can hot lap in rivals mode or you can setup you own races in free play mode and make them the length you want and there you can use the mods if you want. So you can create say a 10 lap race around the ring and apply a couple of mods that doubles the payout or near to it when/if you win. You can set the collisions to on or off as you wish, the number of laps you want to run, the class you want and the difficulty levels. IMO it is much better than career mode and you still get credits which you can use to buy whatever you need in the game.

 

[FuriousDemon]

I do not do career mode in Forza hardly at all. You are right the races are mostly to short and the AI is not good.
Luckily you do not have to do that in Forza. You can race online and earn your credits, you can race in public lobbies or private lobbies you can hot lap in rivals mode or you can setup you own races in free play mode and make them the length you want and there you can use the mods if you want. So you can create say a 10 lap race around the ring and apply a couple of mods that doubles the payout or near to it when/if you win. You can set the collisions to on or off as you wish, the number of laps you want to run, the class you want and the difficulty levels. IMO it is much better than career mode and you still get credits which you can use to buy whatever you need in the game.

I didn't know that. Thought free play was not giving any credits. Thanks a lot for the tip, I'll give that a try. Career mode sucks, but this could be a great alternative. Online public sucks too and again it's only 2-3 lap races.

 

[Haulin_Hebrew]

It starts off. Hey guys, Anthony here for Sony... If you can't see it's just PR I don't know what to tell you. It just goes to show you that anyone can get a race car driver to say their game is great.

Of coarse I see it is PR to a degree, and I say "to a degree" because one of the P-CARS pro drivers said Sim racing is far removed from real racing because of the absents of G-Forces, which is a negative comment, And one of the drivers is sponsored by the game titles, (That one I didn't include in the video compilation) but that is why I made the disclaimer:

Even though this compilation of Pro Race Driver opinion is a good start. I would love to see one non-sponsored pro driver take a comparison test for Assetto Corsa, Project CARS, GT7 and Forza Motorsport 6, in a car that is in all the Sim Racers compared to the real car on the same track, because a couple of the pros are sponsored by the developer of the game they endorse, but I'm sure there is some truth within the endorsement

But even with that being said Joseph Newgardens real lap time were really close to his Forza lap times.

So you're taking other peoples' work, rebranding it as your own video

This is a compilation! video of pro drivers opinions to give Sim Drivers a reality reference point comparison, because so many Sim drivers debate driving physics when they have never driven a real race car, I least I know I haven't. It is not a scientific video essay that I am claiming to be be the originator of, One look at the video anyone can see that, stop being petty dude contribute an effort to help the community instead of just criticizing other members efforts.

 

[SlyNine]

This is a compilation! video of pro drivers opinions to give Sim Drivers a reality reference point comparison, because so many Sim drivers debate driving physics when they have never driven a real race car, I least I know I haven't. It is not a scientific video essay that I am claiming to be be the originator of, One look at the video anyone can see that, stop being petty dude contribute an effort to help the community instead of just criticizing other members efforts.

But why does being good at driving fast make them an expert on physics? This is an appeal to authority fallacy. They are using subjective methods to test a cars behavior. But most of the experience of driving a real car is gone in a simulation. So trying to say a race car driver is any better at judging the accuracy of a simulation, compared to an average driver, seems very flawed to me.

In any case, the only thing that will really convince me of a simulations accuracy is if it's able to predict a cars behavior in a specific set of conditions (tire temp, road temp, road surface, car setup, etc etc). Absent that, the only thing we can really do is point out when a simulation gets something blatantly wrong. That worked great with GT5. But I'm not sure it works well comparing Pcars to Forza 6. What does each one get blatantly wrong?

 

[Haulin_Hebrew]

But why does being good at driving fast make them an expert on physics? This is an appeal to authority fallacy. They are using subjective methods to test a cars behavior. But most of the experience of driving a real car is gone in a simulation. So trying to say a race car driver is any better at judging the accuracy of a simulation, compared to an average driver, seems very flawed to me.

In any case, the only thing that will really convince me of a simulations accuracy is if it's able to predict a cars behavior in a specific set of conditions (tire temp, road temp, road surface, car setup, etc etc). Absent that, the only thing we can really do is point out when a simulation gets something blatantly wrong. That worked great with GT5. But I'm not sure it works well comparing Pcars to Forza 6. What does each one get blatantly wrong?

Well it doesn't have to be a real race car driver, all you really need is someone who has driven the same track and the same car that is in the simulation to give an decent comparison, but a Pro driver can give you much more feedback, all of the nuances because he is able to maximize a cars full potential.

 

[SlyNine]

Well it doesn't have to be a real race car driver, all you really need is someone who has driven the same track and the same car that is in the simulation to give an decent comparison, but a Pro driver can give you much more feedback, all of the nuances because he is able to maximize a cars full potential.

I doubt a driver could ever filter out just the visual experience of driving a real car from the rest of the sensory inputs he gets. Which he would need to do because in a simulator that's all you have. Beyond that how do you deal with the problem of different setups.

But what if one sim gets the tires right and the other gets the suspension right. Which one is more realistic in that case? which one is more important? If the tires were bang on but the suspension was wrong, would he know which one was off? Could we really trust a humans ability to judge a simulation's physics by visuals alone, I wouldn't even trust it if he had all the senses. We, humans, are just not very good measuring sticks.