Project Motor Racing (formerly GTR Revival/GTRevival) from Ian Bell & original GTR2/SimBin crew

  • Thread starter Jtheripper
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Fossilized
Seems like a lot of people have very short memories.

For starters, Project CARS at launch had a weird handling that was NEVER fixed. It was never taken seriously as a sim by the rF2 and AC crowd from the beginning, and didn’t improve over three iterations. You listen to the sim guys, not one of them consider it worth spending any time on. If you have hardware that can run iRacing, rF2, ACC & AC, none of Ian Bell’s products compare when it comes to the driving physics.

Secondly, seems like everybody blanked on the whole Shift period. Once again, wonky physics and no fix EVER. Just two whole games to get it right. Didn’t happen. You starting to see a pattern?

Take a walk down memory lane, go visit PC2’s bug reporting forum (just read the last few pages, nobody has time to read the whole thing..!) and take a look at what never got fixed. It’s a darn sight longer than the list of things they DID fix.

it’s this primarily that sours me on Bell’s tweet happy communication with his next batch of victims (sorry, meant to say customers!). Now, fortunately, those on PC’s have great alternatives. But in the console sector, it was PC2 or nothing. Despite PCARS handling eccentricities, at least on a wheel it was still head and shoulders above the competition (with the exception of AC which few of you PC people can probably remember what the game was like before the modders fixed it and massively improved the content… it might be instructive for a few of you to go back and boot up the OEM game with no mods!). But SMS’s glacial pace on console bug-fixing meant that, over THREE iterations of the game, the weird stuff PCARS does under understeer conditions and curbs never improved significantly.

in the meantime, during the years of Shift1 through PC3, Ian Bell never tweeted about how hard they were working on fixing the bugs. No… the only thing Bell wanted to talk about was the NEXT thing. The new console, the mobile game, the next PCARS. Never THIS one. That’s what leads me, after nearly two decades of playing his games, to have serious reservations about this new venture.

What’s he going to do AFTER it goes on sale? Flit off on his next enthusiasm, or for once in his life, stick around and FINISH THE JOB…?
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Sounds like you're angry and probably won't be getting GTRevival. lol
 
cjsrt4
The main reason I'm not, is because the last 3 games they have released have been completely broken on PC. I remember not being able to play FM7 until about 3 months after release on PC. FH5 for PC crashed at cut scenes for almost a year on anybody using a Fanatec wheel before they finally fixed it. I'm gonna stop replying about FM now though. This thread is getting off topic.

Back on topic though. Has anybody received an email from straight 4 recently? I haven't gotten a monthly letter in almost 3 months.
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Weird, I bought FH3, FM7, FH4 and FH5 at launch via Microsoft store (cross play between PC and Xbox), they are all installed on both my Xbox and PC, and I have been able to play on the PC whenever I like with any of them.

I had one tiny issue: FM7 didn't want to start at some point. Turns out you need to update a Microsoft store app and then it works again (weird but not that annoying).
 
Fossilized
Seems like a lot of people have very short memories.

For starters, Project CARS at launch had a weird handling that was NEVER fixed. It was never taken seriously as a sim by the rF2 and AC crowd from the beginning, and didn’t improve over three iterations. You listen to the sim guys, not one of them consider it worth spending any time on. If you have hardware that can run iRacing, rF2, ACC & AC, none of Ian Bell’s products compare when it comes to the driving physics.

Secondly, seems like everybody blanked on the whole Shift period. Once again, wonky physics and no fix EVER. Just two whole games to get it right. Didn’t happen. You starting to see a pattern?

Take a walk down memory lane, go visit PC2’s bug reporting forum (just read the last few pages, nobody has time to read the whole thing..!) and take a look at what never got fixed. It’s a darn sight longer than the list of things they DID fix.

it’s this primarily that sours me on Bell’s tweet happy communication with his next batch of victims (sorry, meant to say customers!). Now, fortunately, those on PC’s have great alternatives. But in the console sector, it was PC2 or nothing. Despite PCARS handling eccentricities, at least on a wheel it was still head and shoulders above the competition (with the exception of AC which few of you PC people can probably remember what the game was like before the modders fixed it and massively improved the content… it might be instructive for a few of you to go back and boot up the OEM game with no mods!). But SMS’s glacial pace on console bug-fixing meant that, over THREE iterations of the game, the weird stuff PCARS does under understeer conditions and curbs never improved significantly.

in the meantime, during the years of Shift1 through PC3, Ian Bell never tweeted about how hard they were working on fixing the bugs. No… the only thing Bell wanted to talk about was the NEXT thing. The new console, the mobile game, the next PCARS. Never THIS one. That’s what leads me, after nearly two decades of playing his games, to have serious reservations about this new venture.

What’s he going to do AFTER it goes on sale? Flit off on his next enthusiasm, or for once in his life, stick around and FINISH THE JOB…?
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I don't recall vanilla PC1 or 2 (on PC) being bad enough to where it was ever unplayable. The FFB took a little more adjusting than I would have liked, but they were still good games IMO. I agree that when comparing to AC, iRacing or any other PC SIM, they fall a little short. But I still consider them to be successful games.
 
Fossilized
Seems like a lot of people have very short memories.
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What do you mean? I'd say that a very large majority of the people in here (if not all) is very skeptical and it will take way more than has currently been shown to convince them.
 
As a controller player I think PC3 is pretty great. As much as I've tried I couldn't find a setting to ever comfortably play PC1, PC2 I got there and it's a wonderful game but still difficult on controller. As much as I love FM I think PC3 is more fun with a more intuitive controller/handling feel. Only thing wrong with it, (apart from the more SIM comments), is that it was abandoned pretty quick so never really optimised, depending on the situation frame rates are sometimes below 60 even on Series X, and the same can be said for my half decent PC, I can't run everything at Max @1440P like I can with PC2. Overall though, a really fun game.
 
Man, seems weird that we're still having these conversations. You'd think we'd find something else to talk about. Can't imagine wasting any energy at this point on 3 or 14 year old games- either you like what the group produces or you don't.

As for Dr. Bell on the social media, he hasn't been directly involved in development for years, promoting his companies products is sort of his job now.
 
Tired Tyres
I also, as a controller player, enjoyed playing PC3.
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The thing that was wrong with PC3 was the name, the expectations that game with that name, and Ian and a few others fueling those expectations, knowing very well it was not the truth. The game itself was pretty decent, just not a Project CARS game. I had some good fun with it as well. 👍
 
I think it was PC1, I used to play with a controller. The Zakspeed Capri which was awesome, I could smoke the tires around a couple of turns at Zhuhai no problem. They updated it and had to kiss that fun goodbye. It’s not like it didn’t handle, it’s just if I wanted to I could, after the update I’d crank it hard and it would just stick and drive off the track.

And yeah my friends and I still talk about GT Legends. What a great game. We still talk about NHL 93 on Nintendo or Sega too haha. So many classics.
 
hawkeyez
I think it was PC1, I used to play with a controller. The Zakspeed Capri which was awesome, I could smoke the tires around a couple of turns at Zhuhai no problem. They updated it and had to kiss that fun goodbye. It’s not like it didn’t handle, it’s just if I wanted to I could, after the update I’d crank it hard and it would just stick and drive off the track.

And yeah my friends and I still talk about GT Legends. What a great game. We still talk about NHL 93 on Nintendo or Sega too haha. So many classics.
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I like most things they've released and still talk about them, just can't imagine wasting the energy to complain about things i didn't like for that long is all. For example, really don't care for anything Kunos has done. Wouldn't spend a nanosecond in the AC forum posting about AC2, just not going to bother with it, that's all.
 
NLxAROSA
The thing that was wrong with PC3 was the name, the expectations that game with that name, and Ian and a few others fueling those expectations, knowing very well it was not the truth. The game itself was pretty decent, just not a Project CARS game. I had some good fun with it as well. 👍
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Exactly. I rambled on for like three paragraphs trying to say what you’ve said better in three lines.
 
NLxAROSA
The thing that was wrong with PC3 was the name, the expectations that game with that name, and Ian and a few others fueling those expectations, knowing very well it was not the truth. The game itself was pretty decent, just not a Project CARS game. I had some good fun with it as well. 👍
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It got abandoned with the usual litany list on unfixed bugs, but this time it only took a few months for Ian Bell to walk away.

To be honest, I wonder what the PC sim community would say about AC if it couldn’t be modded, and few initial bugs fixed? Or any of the well regarded sims? Sure, you’re going to get gamers with low expectations happy with just about anything as long as it don’t crash, but despite all the people willing to swallow Mr. Bell’s hype hook line and sinker, there’s not a lot of optimism over on the forums where physics, handling and FFB are the things that drive the sport.

I consider PC3 definitely nothing whatsoever to do with sim racing, and am willing to give Ian the benefit of the doubt, even though the timeline of Codemaster’s acquisition doesn’t give them a realistic timeframe to turn a sim into an arcade game. I'm more of the opinion that Mr. Bell was leaning that way to start with, and Codies simply encouraged him to go further.

But that still doesn’t explain the four games that preceded it. Every one of them got end of life’d long before most of the bugs got fixed. Heck, Shift2 had almost unplayable lag on the wheel inputs right up to it’s demise.

Mr. Bell’s heart might be in the right place, but his wallet usually seems focused on the NEXT game. Rinse and repeat.
 
Fossilized
It got abandoned with the usual litany list on unfixed bugs, but this time it only took a few months for Ian Bell to walk away.
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Did you read what he said about PC3? The fact that the game was a disaster mix between PC2 and Forza completely makes sense. He proposed calling it "Project Cars: Sideways" because he wanted it to be more like Forza Horizon, and let the fanbase know it wasn't going to be a sequel to PC2. Then he was basically told to STFU and take a back seat. He didn't walk away, he was pushed out of the way.

Fossilized
To be honest, I wonder what the PC sim community would say about AC if it couldn’t be modded, and few initial bugs fixed? Or any of the well regarded sims? Sure, you’re going to get gamers with low expectations happy with just about anything as long as it don’t crash,
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I played AC without mods for quite some time and was perfectly happy with the game. The FFB and physics are extremely good. ACC is even better.

Fossilized
but despite all the people willing to swallow Mr. Bell’s hype hook line and sinker, there’s not a lot of optimism over on the forums where physics, handling and FFB are the things that drive the sport.
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You do realize that Reiza is involved with the project right? AMS2 is PC2 with perfected FFB. And where do you see people "Swallowing" anything hook line and sinker? Some of us are more on the optimistic side of the game, simply because of who's working on the project. I never said I'm definitely buying the game.
 
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Fossilized
and didn’t improve over three iterations
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Surely after anyone had an issue with whatever you're on about, they'd maybe be hesitant on buying v2, never mind v3 of the series, and keep an eye on previews and reviews to see if it was sorted?

I'll definitely watch every preview and review of this upcoming game though, particularly from sim racers, and if they let me into any beta; report on my findings.
Fossilized
Bell’s tweet happy communication with his next batch of victims
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I liked this latest tweet showing more screenshots, wish more devs showed off what they were working on - hopefully some of this comes across as nicely to consoles. Looks like they are working on VR too from his responses, love it when devs respond rather than just ignore people asking questions.

 
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I'm rather intrigued about this one. GTRevival is possibly a reminder of one of the most hardcore sim racing game series of its time. Many others have emulated or better the GTR series as a hardcore sim, but the GTR series is still solid. I was interested at the idea of AI-generated in-race commentary from when I read a separate article online. I'll be interested in what becomes of this, if anything.
 
As I said before, don’t get me wrong. PC2 is still my go to racer. But it has definitely suffered from SMS’s rather ADD approach to gaming, once launched, their focus seemed to get shifted (😂) to whatever was going on next. No matter how hairbrained. Obviously, at this point, we get to see Ian Bell at his best, focused, driven. The thing that will have to change for the faults of previous series to not repeat themselves will be him not starting to talk about anything else!

But it’s a different world from the days of GTR. Several VERY mature games already occupy the sim racing space, and there’s not much left about racing that hasn’t already become commonplace with other titles. Finding a niche is going to be harder than back in the earlier GTR days. And if Bell ties that to his previous ‘leave it unfixed, we got another project to work on’ habits, it’s hard to imagine we’re all going to see any real change.

I hope he succeeds. But yes. After so many other unfulfilled promises, this game is not going on my pre-order list. And I’d counsel anyone that hasn’t run the SMS gauntlet from Shift through the Project CARS games and is unaware of how frustrating SMS’s bugfix program was to do the same.

I’ll happily buy it once the launch issues are sorted. But not until, this time.
 
Fossilized
But it’s a different world from the days of GTR. Several VERY mature games already occupy the sim racing space, and there’s not much left about racing that hasn’t already become commonplace with other titles. Finding a niche is going to be harder than back in the earlier GTR days.
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This is (probably) why the in-development Project CARS game was cancelled last year. How do you compete against such established titles, especially when one of them (Forza Motorsport) can effectively be given to players “for free”.
 
The fact of the matter is that Ian Bell has shown to be a habitual liar who also has gone above and beyond to use companies like EA (and to be frank, Namco and Codemasters going by that interview posted further in the thread linking them together for the failure of PCARS 3) as scapegoats for his eventual burning of bridges and taking balls home. He's consistently been combative when it comes to these very real criticisms, and all three PCARS games have had major problems that were ultimately not fixed, or if they were, the surface was grazed.

How anyone can ultimately trust him this time around, even if he is effectively a spokesperson instead of lead developer (forgetting that such a thing also presents its own problems, Kaz's continual foot in mouth decisions with regards to Gran Turismo going back to GT5's development is proof of that) is beyond me. Especially when we are dealing with a sequel to a beloved game that is really just vaporware at this stage.

cjsrt4
and let the fanbase know it wasn't going to be a sequel to PC2. Then he was basically told to STFU and take a back seat. He didn't walk away, he was pushed out of the way.
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Uh huh. Is that why Ian said PCARS 3 was 'all the sim you'll ever need' in press junkets when everyone and their mother could see that pit walls were closed off in screenshots and trailers, and he lied about it to keep up appearances?
 
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I’m looking forward to it. As much as I complain about GT7, and man some stuff just bugs me with that game, it’s still a great game! Better to have it than not despite its downfalls. GTRevival should be a lot of fun too regardless of it’s shortcomings as well.
 
Jtheripper
Banned for what? Just giving his opinion?
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Beware, that evil mastermind Ian Bell has far reaching powers. Don't trust him. They say. 😄


Actually it wouldn't be about his/her/they/it's post, an opinion is just that (even if it's wrong :mischievous:).
I suspect there was some other infraction. Possibly a previously banned user returning under a new guise, there was something familiar about the writing style.
 
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Moderation is not for public discussion, for the pretty obvious reason that only the staff and the individual concerned are aware of any moderation action and because discussing it literally misses the point of what moderation is for. However:
Jtheripper
Banned for what? Just giving his opinion?
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Nobody has ever been banned from GTPlanet for "just giving his opinion" except where that opinion also breaks the site's Acceptable Use Policy - such as the opinion that the site staff's children should be murdered, which has been expressed on several occasions (but not by this user) - and once sufficient chances to not do that have been used up.

You can assume therefore that whatever this person did is not "just giving his opinion" (especially as the opinion is still there and not removed or edited, therefore not breaking the AUP) and then get on with your life.
 
Famine
such as the opinion that the site staff's children should be murdered, which has been expressed on several occasions
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Has it!! Good lord. It doesn't take much to trigger some folks. I'm sorry you all have to put up with that. What a strange world we live in.
 

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