PS4K - Revealed Alongside PS4 Slim as PS4 Pro - General DiscussionPS4

[Pillo-san]

How does it differ from what I said?

 

[MagpieRacer]

What an absolutely terrible time for the consumer this is. Consoles not even three years old and will already be technically obsolete.

Not obsolete at all. It's very clear what the PS4K is, it is simply a 4K alternative. It needs more power to bump resolution and/or frame rate. It is an option not an upgrade. The Xbox on the other hand is clearly trying to play catch up and will potentially be an upgrade rather than an option in response to the PS4 and the neo. NX is a new console so really should be exempt from the argument.

Nintendo aside, PlayStation are appearing to do it right, unless Microsoft come out and say it will be the same thing, ie an option for those who want 4K gaming rather than an upgrade. However I feel that as the Xbox was behind the ps4 on capabilities that won't be the case.

 

[VXR]

Regardless if it's an option, it's an option most would've chosen had it existed from day one. The Xbox is behind the PS4, but it is the only Xbox One and therefore I was happy with and knew what I was getting. I didn't know less than three years later, to get the best Xbox experience would require a whole new console.

I'm a console gamer because the upgrade path of PCs is the total antithesis of a console gamer who's lucky to get two whole hours a night on it, so I'm not conditioned to upgrades being a part of my gaming habits.

 

[Samus]

it is simply a 4K alternative.

Except that isn't all it is, the leaks suggest it will also improve performance and visuals at 1080p res also. 4K doesn't even seem to be that much of a priority bizarrely, given that they only talk about mostly upscaling games and no talk of a 4K BR drive.

It's very possible we'll see a game on the new model with a rock solid 1080p60 and 1080p60ish on the current model, for example. Now you might say "Well the normal one would've been like that anyway" and you might well be right, but it could also be the case that where a developer might have pushed hard for that performance on the original but now they have the Neo it's an easier way to achieve the target, and won't bother as hard as they would've on the original.

It is an option, no doubt about that, but I still also agree it should have been an option from the start. Early adopters did not have that direct choice, something PC players do have whenever they go out to buy new hardware. They may not be able to afford the best CPU or GPU but the option is always there when they go shopping. For initial PS4 adopters the option wasn't there. They can buy it now of course but with some of the cost of the original on top, depending how much they sell it/trade it for.

I would assume if this way of doing things is a success we will be seeing multiple day one options next gen but they'll still have to be very careful about how they go about it.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Except that isn't all it is, the leaks suggest it will also improve performance and visuals at 1080p res also. 4K doesn't even seem to be that much of a priority bizarrely, given that they only talk about mostly upscaling games and no talk of a 4K BR drive.

It's very possible we'll see a game on the new model with a rock solid 1080p60 and 1080p60ish on the current model, for example. Now you might say "Well the normal one would've been like that anyway" and you might well be right, but it could also be the case that where a developer might have pushed hard for that performance on the original but now they have the Neo it's an easier way to achieve the target, and won't bother as hard as they would've on the original.

It is an option, no doubt about that, but I still also agree it should have been an option from the start. Early adopters did not have that direct choice, something PC players do have whenever they go out to buy new hardware. They may not be able to afford the best CPU or GPU but the option is always there when they go shopping. For initial PS4 adopters the option wasn't there. They can buy it now of course but with some of the cost of the original on top, depending how much they sell it/trade it for.

I would assume if this way of doing things is a success we will be seeing multiple day one options next gen but they'll still have to be very careful about how they go about it.

But people who already have one don't need to. I have a 1080p TV, most games reach that, so someone like me has absolutely no need to buy a neo. I think this seems to have really gotten under people's skins but actually it's just a non issue really. Ok so some games might have slightly more stable frame rates, great. The main benefit will be 4K, they haven't spoken much about it because it is a given, the name says it all. Sony have said in the document leaks that games must target at least 1080p and that the frame rates must be the same, or better on the neo. Given most people can't distinguish above a certain fps anyway it's a non issue.

4K is the way forward and this is just sony giving 4K TV owners a reason to own one.

 

[Samus]

But people who already have one don't need to. I have a 1080p TV, most games reach that, so someone like me has absolutely no need to buy a neo. I think this seems to have really gotten under people's skins but actually it's just a non issue really. Ok so some games might have slightly more stable frame rates, great. The main benefit will be 4K, they haven't spoken much about it because it is a given, the name says it all. Sony have said in the document leaks that games must target at least 1080p and that the frame rates must be the same, or better on the neo. Given most people can't distinguish above a certain fps anyway it's a non issue.

4K is the way forward and this is just sony giving 4K TV owners a reason to own one.

People who already have a PS4 don't need to buy the new one, no, that's why it's still a choice. I was just saying that they were never given the direct choice between the two, so I can understand their frustration and feeling like they've been penalised for buying early. I'm not in this boat by the way, I don't have a PS4 yet, but I can understand the feelings of those who do.

I wouldn't say its a non-issue, it depends entirely how developers handle it. If we're talking a difference similar to that between Xbox One and PS4, it wouldn't be an issue. Bigger gulfs in performance however and people might not be so happy, especially if they feel the original model version has been gimped rather than the Neo version just improved.

Anyway it's obviously all theoretical at the moment, all we can do is wait and see how things play out in the real world. It could be fine, it could turn into a bit of a disaster for some games. Only time will tell.

 

[Soundtrack]

But people who already have one don't need to. I have a 1080p TV, most games reach that, so someone like me has absolutely no need to buy a neo. I think this seems to have really gotten under people's skins but actually it's just a non issue really. Ok so some games might have slightly more stable frame rates, great. The main benefit will be 4K, they haven't spoken much about it because it is a given, the name says it all. Sony have said in the document leaks that games must target at least 1080p and that the frame rates must be the same, or better on the neo. Given most people can't distinguish above a certain fps anyway it's a non issue.

4K is the way forward and this is just sony giving 4K TV owners a reason to own one.

I wouldn’t expect much 4K native gaming out of the NEO console. UHD being 4 times FullHD resolution would bring triple A games running at locked 1080P30fps in the 2160@15fps territory with a GPU reportedly more or less twice as powerful. That does not take into account the required 8 to 10 bit processing involved by the wider color/luminance range.

A far better incentive for 4k Premium customers would be the inclusion of a UHD bluray optical drive who, at this point at least, is not confirmed.

 

[Samus]

A far better incentive for 4k Premium customers would be the inclusion of a UHD bluray optical drive who, at this point at least, is not confirmed.

Indeed and I would find it absolutely bizarre if they don't include one. It seemed like one of the primary reasons for the new model when rumours first appeared. I know Sony have a 4K streaming service that they could promote but surely they can also make the new console a huge hit by turning PS4 into a 4KBR player, considering how pricey standalone models currently are. Pretty much what they did with the PS3 and BR.

If they don't include one though it would seem bizarre as I say, "A few 4K games, the rest upscaled and a 4K streaming movie service" doesn't seem like a particularly good way to market it to people with a 4K panel.

 

[Soundtrack]

Agreed, considering Sony is one of the rare editor of genuine UHD blurays (4k/shooting/post/mastering) not including one would be incomprehensible.

 

[mister dog]

Face it, they released both PS4 and Xbone underpowered. Didn't want to bother selling high end tech again, so they went for the easy route with standard specs and sold millions of units anyway. Now less than 3 years later it turns out most of the newest games can't run on them in full glory anymore.

You've been scammed, you basically bought a medium spec PC and now both Sony and MS are already pushing out a new console disguised as an upgrade so you can lay down 400 bucks once again... And a lot of punters are going to be happy to do so even it seems

Like Rich says, which arguments do console users have left now to not go PC gaming?:

 

[JKgo]

which arguments do console users have left now to not go PC gaming?:

....Oh, that one's easy: console-specific exclusives. Last time I checked, only way to play a Mario game on a PC is to illegally emulate it, ditto for Uncharted and.... Gran Turismo. Plus the others.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The thing is... that upscaling costs processing power somewhere in the chain. 4k TVs have upscale capability so that upscaling might as well be left to the TV.

The problem is UHD upscaling varies in quality from tv to tv ( have seen Sony vs Samsung vs LG on shop display with 1080p BR movie playing upscaled to 4K, they are not equal ), if Sony wants to ensure closer visual between tv, upscale done by PS4 is better option, ensuring only the tv is running in native 4K mode ( which may also lower the lag due to less processing )

I don't get the negativity like saying PS4 owners have been duped etc. When released, the 4K tv market was in it's infancy, ultra expensive. Now is a lot different, even in my local shops, I can find 4k tv in price range as old 32-40 1080p tv. My relatives now are upgrading to 4K, even if they know that 4K content is rare in our country, they have seen the upscale 1080p to 4K, and prefer that to 1080p tv.

The decision is simple, if you don't have or don't plan to buy 4K tv anytime soon, don't get PS4 NEO, keep your PS4, if you will buy PS4, get the normal version.

The other end is if you have 4K tv or planning to get one soon, get PS4 NEO, or if you have normal PS4, and plan to upgrade, sell it before PS4 NEO hits the market, less chance of used PS4 prices get hammered.

IF the PS4 NEO will have 4K BR Drive, all the more reason to get it if you have 4K tv, it's a steal

TCL 4K TV around 40 inches are very good entry level 4K tv at decent prices ( around US $ 400 ), last I saw also has Smart TV feature.

 

[AudiMan2011]

....Oh, that one's easy: console-specific exclusives. Last time I checked, only way to play a Mario game on a PC is to illegally emulate it, ditto for Uncharted and.... Gran Turismo. Plus the others.

Xbox is bringing most of it's exclusives (Forza, Quantum Break, Gears Ultimate Edition) to PC under UWP, so that argument goes out the window.

Basically this is a bad time to be a gamer at the moment.

 

[JKgo]

Xbox is bringing most of it's exclusives (Forza, Quantum Break, Gears Ultimate Edition) to PC under UWP, so that argument goes out the window.

Basically this is a bad time to be a gamer at the moment.

....Nope, that's why I left out Xbox games. Doesn't matter what UWP brings to Win10 PCs - you still can't play Nintendo/Sony games legitimately.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Face it, they released both PS4 and Xbone underpowered. Didn't want to bother selling high end tech again, so they went for the easy route with standard specs and sold millions of units anyway. Now less than 3 years later it turns out most of the newest games can't run on them in full glory anymore.

You've been scammed, you basically bought a medium spec PC and now both Sony and MS are already pushing out a new console disguised as an upgrade so you can lay down 400 bucks once again... And a lot of punters are going to be happy to do so even it seems

Like Rich says, which arguments do console users have left now to not go PC gaming?:

These posts are just so ridiculous. Have any of you actually read the leaked report? It's hilarious how wrong so many of you are.

Also, until Sony say something official, which they haven't, it's all speculation anyway. But at least speculate properly.

 

[mister dog]

....Oh, that one's easy: console-specific exclusives. Last time I checked, only way to play a Mario game on a PC is to illegally emulate it, ditto for Uncharted and.... Gran Turismo. Plus the others.

True, thats about the only thing consoles have left that you could see as a + i suppose. Works both ways though

 

[Nexus]

Xbox is bringing most of it's exclusives (Forza, Quantum Break, Gears Ultimate Edition) to PC under UWP, so that argument goes out the window.

Basically this is a bad time to be a gamer at the moment.

I can understand why people aren't happy about upgraded versions of the PS4/Xbox One coming out, but what's so bad about Xbox games coming to PC?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

There are many PS exclusive games that I would like to own in the future, Gundam games for example are mostly Japanese domestic market, and I prefer PS4 with this as one of the key reasons ( I could be buy Asian region PS4 cheaply, much cheaper actually, with most games in US $40 range even for big titles new release like Uncharted 4 ) DLC also cheaper

I usually have over 40 titles in one console gen life.

 

[JKgo]

True, thats about the only thing consoles have left that you could see as a + i suppose. Works both ways though

...Yeah, you got me there.

Also, until Sony say something official, which they haven't, it's all speculation anyway. But at least speculate properly.

This again?

Well the plot thickens.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...gn-wins-point-to-new-console-hardware-in-2016

If it got any thicker it would become a glue instead.

AMD boss lady says three new consoles, by 2017. PS4 "Neo", Xbox One.2, and Nintendo NX.

Might as well call them PS5, XB-2, and uh, Wii 3?

Hopefully this falls in line with your "proper speculation". 👍

 

[MagpieRacer]

Well until Sony or Microsoft say anything it remains speculation as to what they are. Sure as hell Isnt going to be PS5 and sure as hell Isnt going to affect anyone who doesn't own a 4K UHD TV.

But hey, why go by what we have? Let's just make some bs up instead.

 

[JKgo]

But hey, why go by what we have? Let's just make some bs up instead.

....What we have is a bunch of related information that points us to PS4 NEO being a real thing. NX has been a known quantity since last year when Nintendo touted it having "industry-leading chips".

Only one in the realm of "possible BS" is the Xbone.2, because Phil Spencer clearly said he wasn't keen on it in an interview recently.

It's kinda weird you think AMD CEO was making up stuff when speaking to investors. Surely she has a lot more info than you or I. Gamestop CEO also outed PS4 NEO in an investor call.

....Oh boy.

New Console Launches Could Be "Imminent," GameStop Exec Says.

Does this mean PS4K is indeed coming? Or is he just (hopefully) inferring to "slim" PS4/Xbone?

I got a bad feeling...

GameStop CEO did out PSVR's launch window a month before its announcement at GDC, so as far as the record goes, he/they have form.

As for this not affecting anyone who doesn't own a 4K telly, you're right. But it's still coming regardless.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I'm not denying it's coming, at no point have I denied its existence, I've actively spoken of the consoles existence. So I'm not sure where you think I've said it isn't coming. My argument has been with everyone who is talking about it being PS5 and upsetting fans who have bought 'out of date' consoles when it's as far from the case as possible. We know the NX is coming because Nintendo have said so, the PS4K is the worst kept secret ever, the only thing we don't know is Xbox. And who's to say the third console isn't the handheld portion of the NX to enable a seamless experience across console and handheld?

 

[VXR]

If there's two tiers of games on PS4 and the higher tier has a mandatory minimum resolution, then the original model is outdated.

 

[JKgo]

My argument has been with everyone who is talking about it being PS5

...Oh. My bad. I guess it's me who's to blame here. I did bring that up, albeit cynically.

And who's to say the third console isn't the handheld portion of the NX to enable a seamless experience across console and handheld?

Nah, I don't think that'll happen. Too costly for the manufacturer. Rumors of Xbone.2 have been bobbing in and out since the same time as PS4K's started. So putting two and two together, it can't be anything else other than a new and improved Xbox.

 

[Samus]

The decision is simple, if you don't have or don't plan to buy 4K tv anytime soon, don't get PS4 NEO, keep your PS4, if you will buy PS4, get the normal version.

Again, based on the leaked specs, I don't believe this to be true. If the new model is going to also give better performance at 1080p surely it's the better buy for anyone, not just 4k owners?

 

[gtracedriver1]

PS4 is great in both gfx and performance. PS4.5 is there because of VR. So for those who wants more performance like 60-90fps and 4K output probably need to consider it. I guess for most people it will not matter and I do not see PSVR or PS4.5 doing well. People are simply overreacting.

If Sony tries to kill or phase out the PS4 for PS4.5 and VR push. Then they are pulling out a Microsoft here and digging their own grave 🤬

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Again, based on the leaked specs, I don't believe this to be true. If the new model is going to also give better performance at 1080p surely it's the better buy for anyone, not just 4k owners?

Better buy for players who cared much about fps or have games that they find lacking in fps performance. Most PS4 games are locked 30fps or 60fps, but the actual performance on some games may fluctuate, from what Sony leaked docs said, NEO will maintain the target fps on 1080p as before to maintain parity with normal PS4, the only difference is when the normal PS4 fluctuates and NEO will be more solid.

If I have MGS V with normal PS4, I won't really see any difference playing it on PS4 NEO, as MGS V could maintain solid 60fps. While if I have Alien Isolation, the NEO PS4 might perform a lot better on certain part of the game that sees PS4 dips below 30fps.

The question is, do all players with normal PS4 and 1080p tv willing to trade these enhancement by buying a new console and selling the old one ?

Also, the enhancement in 1080p mode may not be an instant boost, devs would need to provide patches to cater PS4 NEO 1080p mode on older games released before the NEO hit the market. From what I read that devs needs to develop for 2 hardware with specific hardware limit and Sony imposing strict requirement on both, I see that older pre NEO games will have to have special patch to unlock the NEO enhancements other than 4k upscale. Not all devs would spend money to make a patch available for specific NEO enhancement for already released games in 1080p mode.

I wonder if SMS will release such patch when NEO hits the market, it may help with fps stability in high grid races.

 

[Samus]

Better buy for players who cared much about fps or have games that they find lacking in fps performance. Most PS4 games are locked 30fps or 60fps, but the actual performance on some games may fluctuate, from what Sony leaked docs said, NEO will maintain the target fps on 1080p as before to maintain parity with normal PS4, the only difference is when the normal PS4 fluctuates and NEO will be more solid.

If I have MGS V with normal PS4, I won't really see any difference playing it on PS4 NEO, as MGS V could maintain solid 60fps. While if I have Alien Isolation, the NEO PS4 might perform a lot better on certain part of the game that sees PS4 dips below 30fps.

The question is, do all players with normal PS4 and 1080p tv willing to trade these enhancement by buying a new console and selling the old one ?

Also, the enhancement in 1080p mode may not be an instant boost, devs would need to provide patches to cater PS4 NEO 1080p mode on older games released before the NEO hit the market. From what I read that devs needs to develop for 2 hardware with specific hardware limit and Sony imposing strict requirement on both, I see that older pre NEO games will have to have special patch to unlock the NEO enhancements other than 4k upscale. Not all devs would spend money to make a patch available for specific NEO enhancement for already released games in 1080p mode.

I wonder if SMS will release such patch when NEO hits the market, it may help with fps stability in high grid races.

I'm talking about people like myself, who do not currently own a PS4 and may be in the market for one. Surely people like me are going to consider the new model, even though I don't have a 4K TV or any desire to buy one? Yes older games are obviously not going to see a huge difference, or even at all if they're not patched, but going forward who knows what the divide will be? We can only wait and see. Like I say it could be like the minor differences between the current XB1 and PS4, it could be more.

 

[unit-one]

If NEO is real.
Maybe it will also allow for a full-quality video recording and streaming. PS4 downgrades video quality for recordings and streaming.

 

[VXR]

I'm guessing both the PS4 and Xbox One downgrade video capture for network reasons.