PT-1 Pedals Discussion

[ProtoSimTech]

Hey guys,

Here's a video discussing the advantages and disadvantages of using Hall Effect sensors vs. using Potentiometers. We are heavily leaning towards using Hall Effect sensors, but there's a lot of research and testing needed before we make a final decision either way.

 

[ProtoSimTech]

Hey guys,

We just completed a new video that shows how we built our latest jig. This is a jig for the Band Saw, and this will allow us to cut the angles for multiple side plates at a time. This is important because it will save us countless hours of work when it comes time for production. Enjoy!

 

[ProtoSimTech]

Hey guys,



In the last video, we showed you how we built our band saw jig, but we didn't get a chance to show you how it works. In this video, we show you the jig in action. We're also taking this video, and the rest of our videos, in a different direction. We're going to be shooting live from now on. We feel it gives the public a better understanding of what goes on in our shop. It will ultimately be a much better experience. The editing and voice overs were OK, but they were taking an awful long time to produce, and we just feel that this will give you a better experience overall. We hope you enjoy it and we'd love to hear what you think!









Cheers!

 

[wajdi1977]

👍

 

[mrbasher]

RE: Hall Effect Sensors

Something to keep in mind. Hall effect sensor output is not linear when measuring proximity. It is exponential as the magnet approaches the face of the sensor. For example, moving a magnet towards and then away from the sensor face. This is not remedied by placing a magnet on both sides. I suggest doing some reading up on them before trying any design changes. There are a few configurations which handle this issue appropriately.

 

[BrEaKnDiSh]

Linear slide pots with filtering is best in my opinions. TeamARC and HPP use slide pots. Its the best way to get 100% linear response as far as I know.

 

[ProtoSimTech]

RE: Hall Effect Sensors

Something to keep in mind. Hall effect sensor output is not linear when measuring proximity. It is exponential as the magnet approaches the face of the sensor. For example, moving a magnet towards and then away from the sensor face. This is not remedied by placing a magnet on both sides. I suggest doing some reading up on them before trying any design changes. There are a few configurations which handle this issue appropriately.

We've actually been doing our own testing (off camera). There are several issues that we've encountered. We're not convinced that these sensors are the way to go.

We'll be talking about this in a future video.

Our original design calls for a setup very similar to the CST's. In fact, the arm we're using to test the setup is exactly the same. We purchased it from the same supplier.

 

[ProtoSimTech]

Hey guys,

We've been working on some things behind the scenes and wanted to give you a sneak preview of what we've built so far. This video concentrates on the making of the pedal arms, but there's a little something extra in there for you to enjoy. We hope you like it!

 

[ProtoSimTech]

Hey guys,

This is the 5th part of our pedal build series. In this video, we're focusing on the radius that we need to put on the end of the pedal arms. This is to allow the arm to move in it's full range of motion. We had some difficulty with this setup, so we will be revisiting this in the future.

 

[Nick Moxley]

Whens the next video Chris ?

 

[ProtoSimTech]

Whens the next video Chris ?

We're currently working on it =)

We've had to make some critical changes to the design (good changes). So, we have been on hold until we could grab some materials and tools to handle the new changes.

We should have a video out by this weekend.

 

[ProtoSimTech]

Hey guys,

In this video, we show you how we built the pedal faces (the part your foot presses against). We're excited to show you this because it's been in the works for quite awhile. The shape of these pedal faces aren't curved in the traditional sense. We decided to be a little different and use different angles to create the curvature. We hope you like the design!

 

[Nick Moxley]

Awesome Chris, pedal faces look good, but how much time in spend on a single face ?

 

[ProtoSimTech]

Awesome Chris, pedal faces look good, but how much time in spend on a single face ?

Nick,

The time spent on these is negligible. Once we're in a position to start selling our pedals, we'll be switching over our operation to CNC. That means less time spent on cutting, and more time spent on assembly. We'll have more details about this later, but don't worry, making these pedal faces shouldn't affect how long it takes to build the entire set.

There's going to be lead times, regardless. How much of a lead time, we just don't know at this point. There are so many variables to factor in, it would be impossible to give you even an estimate.

We're glad you like the design!

There have been some concerns about the edges on the pedal faces and we wanted to alleviate some of those concerns by posting this image. The grey area represents the pedal face and the red line is a natural curve that touches each edge. As you can see by this image, the edges aren't as drastic as they appear in the video.

 

[LogiForce]

Thumbs up to you, Chris. These videos are awesome.
The pedal plates though... even though the natural curvature is close, I am not sure if it will be comfortable. Though the only way you will know sure is to try them out, and if you dislike them than you can always change the design.

The biggest point about pedals is being able to change the angle (without changing the throw) of the pedal lever, the angle of the pedal plates and the distance from the plates to the lever.
The last being important as you want the throttle to be at neutral at about the same height as where your brake pedal will be depressed, just so you can make heel&toe easier. Also changing angles and distances will give each pedal their own distinct feel under your foot, even if the differences are minute.

Anyway, superb job and... subbed to the YouTube channel so I can more quickly notice the next upload.

Cheers,
Christiaan

 

[ProtoSimTech]

Thumbs up to you, Chris. These videos are awesome.
The pedal plates though... even though the natural curvature is close, I am not sure if it will be comfortable. Though the only way you will know sure is to try them out, and if you dislike them than you can always change the design.

The biggest point about pedals is being able to change the angle (without changing the throw) of the pedal lever, the angle of the pedal plates and the distance from the plates to the lever.
The last being important as you want the throttle to be at neutral at about the same height as where your brake pedal will be depressed, just so you can make heel&toe easier. Also changing angles and distances will give each pedal their own distinct feel under your foot, even if the differences are minute.

Anyway, superb job and... subbed to the YouTube channel so I can more quickly notice the next upload.

Cheers,
Christiaan

We'll be testing out a flat version as well, for those that don't like the angled design.

One thing to keep in mind is that these are still very much a work-in-progress. Nothing you see is final. We'll be testing everything we possibly can in order to give all of you the best product possible.

The community has been amazing in terms of feedback. We're glad that so many people have shown an interest in our little project

We hope you like what you're about to see very soon. We've been building up to this point and it's getting very close to the big reveal. As mentioned before, we should have a fully functioning prototype by the end of march, perhaps sooner.

Thank you for subbing!

 

[ProtoSimTech]

We just announced on Twitter that we'll be releasing a video this weekend.

The current plan is to give you a nice preview with this upcoming video, and then we'll put together another video or two that will allow us to go over each and every feature with much more detail.

We're very excited, and also very nervous. We hope that you guys like all of the changes we've made, and we can't wait to hear what you think

 

[ProtoSimTech]

Hey guys,

We are very excited to show you what we've been working on for the past couple of weeks. Keep in mind, though, that what you're about to see is still very much a work in progress. There is still a lot of work left to do, and there may be changes to this design as we get into the testing period. We hope you like what you see and we can't wait to hear what you think! Enjoy!

 

[LogiForce]

I see a few problems. I know you will go over adjustment features in another video but...

1. The angle of the pedal arm is not adjustable. Some people have angles pedal plates. Now if you have a pedal arm that is at a 90 degree angle with it's base, it will mean that on an angled pedal plate the pedal arm leans forward to the driver. A very uncomfortable thing.
So this needs adjustment abilities in this area. However, this will mean you also end up changing the travel on the potmeter with the current construction. So it might need a serious redesign.

2. The pedal plate can only be raised or lowered, but its angle doesn't seem adjustable. You will want this at an angle so your foot doesn't slide forward off of the pedal, and it needs adjustment when you change the throw.


Personal opinion, I find the pedal plate to be too big. I think I would prefer the old shape and size over the flat one.

 

[ProtoSimTech]

I see a few problems. I know you will go over adjustment features in another video but...

1. The angle of the pedal arm is not adjustable. Some people have angles pedal plates. Now if you have a pedal arm that is at a 90 degree angle with it's base, it will mean that on an angled pedal plate the pedal arm leans forward to the driver. A very uncomfortable thing.
So this needs adjustment abilities in this area. However, this will mean you also end up changing the travel on the potmeter with the current construction. So it might need a serious redesign.

2. The pedal plate can only be raised or lowered, but its angle doesn't seem adjustable. You will want this at an angle so your foot doesn't slide forward off of the pedal, and it needs adjustment when you change the throw.


Personal opinion, I find the pedal plate to be too big. I think I would prefer the old shape and size over the flat one.

I think your analysis is a bit premature. You might want to wait for the next video

The pedal arm travel does have an adjustment. You probably missed it since the video doesn't show it very well. The pedal face will be an option. You will be able to choose one or the other. Also, most pedals on the market do not have an angle adjustment for the actual pedal face. We don't feel that this is a deal breaker in any way.

EDIT: Couple points of clarification here...

1) The angle of the pedal arm isn't actually straight up and down. It's tilted slightly, but you can't see that in the pictures or in the video that well.

2) The pedal arm angle is actually adjustable, but it will take a bit more than simply turning a screw if you really want to adjust it. We'll go over that in the next video. It's not actually that hard to do.

3) You mentioned the pedal face angle being adjustable. However, I don't know of a single set of pedals that actually do this. The pedals that don't have this adjustment include: G25/G27's, Club Sports, Thrustmaster pedals, CST's, DSD's, or any other high end pedals that I can think of. As mentioned above, it's not a deal breaker.

You'll really want to wait for the next video or two. We'll go over all the features.

Something else I wanted to mention is that you really do think of just about everything

At least you can keep me on my toes

 

[geo1098]

Beautiful work on those pedals. I'm sure you've looked at what ARC and Niels offers and your set reminds me of Niels a fair amount. He can never keep those in stock so I'm sure you'll have a market for yours. If you can price them below his and dress them up a bit more then please sign me up.
My few comments would be to get your videos on sites like bsimracing. GTPlanet is great but is geared to the console crowd. Replace the black steel screws with stainless. Also, replace the black spring with something colored to improve the appearance. I don't think the notched pedal faces are good, if it isn't something found in a race car then don't use it.
Make sure they do the things Niels setup will do and you'll sell as many as you can make. When ready, send a set to Sim Racing Garage to review.

 

[ProtoSimTech]

Beautiful work on those pedals. I'm sure you've looked at what ARC and Niels offers and your set reminds me of Niels a fair amount. He can never keep those in stock so I'm sure you'll have a market for yours. If you can price them below his and dress them up a bit more then please sign me up.
My few comments would be to get your videos on sites like bsimracing. GTPlanet is great but is geared to the console crowd. Replace the black steel screws with stainless. Also, replace the black spring with something colored to improve the appearance. I don't think the notched pedal faces are good, if it isn't something found in a race car then don't use it.
Make sure they do the things Niels setup will do and you'll sell as many as you can make. When ready, send a set to Sim Racing Garage to review.

We actually prefer the black contrast on the aluminum. Stainless may be an option, I suppose. We'll look into that.

As far as price is concerned, these will not be anywhere near the high end pedal sets currently on the market. That's all I'm going to say about price. I don't want to give away too much too soon.

For those that don't like the edged pedal face (those edges aren't as drastic as they seem) we will offer the flat faces. We are experimenting with different sizes.

Putting our videos on bsimracing isn't as easy as it sounds. There are only a handful of forums that allow us to "advertise" (and I use that term loosely) like this. We are already in forum sections with ISI (rFactor), Inside Sim Racing, Project CARS, iRacing, and Reddit. We tried to get the news out to VirtualR, but they don't seem to care.

A lot of console racers do tend to race in other areas, so these forums are still worth the effort.

As far as dressing them up, I wouldn't concentrate too much on appearance right now. The outside finish is temporary, and we'll be sand blasting our parts once we are ready to sell them. We'll also be looking into powder coating them, for those that want a powder coated finish.

The spring isn't actually black. There is a black ABS plastic tube underneath the spring that keeps it from buckling. It also helps with placement.

I'm glad you seem to like them despite the things you mentioned. I think once you see the finished product, you'll like them even more. Once you see the price, you might like them even that much more

Please stay tuned for the next video. We'll be going over all of the adjustments you can make. We packed as many into these pedals as we could.

 

[left888]

I think your analysis is a bit premature.

Just in case you don't know, this kid is one of the forums "know it all's"

 

[ProtoSimTech]

Hey guys,

In this video, we show you all of the possible adjustments you can make to the accelerator pedal. We hope that we covered everything, but if you feel that we didn't, or you have any questions regarding adjustments, feel free to leave a comment. Enjoy!

 

[LogiForce]

Two things. No pedal plate angle adjustment, as I thought in the previous video. No worries though, a few nylon rings behind the plate will do wonders.

About changing the pedal arm angle, you could make it so that the potmeter arm can slide up and down on the pedal arm side. This will change the throw with the potmeter in the same way as what happens with the pedal arm strength adjustment.

 

[ProtoSimTech]

Two things. No pedal plate angle adjustment, as I thought in the previous video. No worries though, a few nylon rings behind the plate will do wonders.

About changing the pedal arm angle, you could make it so that the potmeter arm can slide up and down on the pedal arm side. This will change the throw with the potmeter in the same way as what happens with the pedal arm strength adjustment.

Could you elaborate on the pedal plate angle? I'm not understanding what you mean by this...

Your second suggestion is actually decent. However, we'll be doing it slightly different. We're going to make different mounting holes instead of a slot. Allowing it to "slide" would be a little risky. We wouldn't want it to slip. Having threaded holes ensures that they always stay in the position intended.

 

[LogiForce]

Could you elaborate on the pedal plate angle? I'm not understanding what you mean by this...

Your second suggestion is actually decent. However, we'll be doing it slightly different. We're going to make different mounting holes instead of a slot. Allowing it to "slide" would be a little risky. We wouldn't want it to slip. Having threaded holes ensures that they always stay in the position intended.

I am sure a picture paints a thousand words. I mean adjusting the pedal plate's angle by having it lean forward or backward. For example, if you have a large throw on the throttle pedal your foot could slide off because the surface is slightly too flat. Allowing for a forward adjustment would counter this without reducing the throw.

In some 'rare' cases the 'backwards lean' might also be handy to have. For example if the pedal assembly is mounted inverted and at a 45 degree angle. You could then put the pedal at a more straight angle.
So for example as below.

ps. pardon my paint skills in both images.

 

[ProtoSimTech]

I am sure a picture paints a thousand words. I mean adjusting the pedal plate's angle by having it lean forward or backward. For example, if you have a large throw on the throttle pedal your foot could slide off because the surface is slightly too flat. Allowing for a forward adjustment would counter this without reducing the throw.

I see what you mean.

We've packed enough adjustments into our pedals that we feel the user will have plenty of opportunity to "personalize" them.

 

[ProtoSimTech]

Hey guys,

We finally have a working prototype of our new pedals and here we get a chance to do some preliminary testing. Enjoy!

 

[ProtoSimTech]

Hey guys,

Doug Meyer over at SimRacingReview is an awesome guy, and he just released a special video that showcases our new brake pedal along side the throttle pedal. Keep in mind, the pictures you'll see are of the prototypes, so they'll have some wear and tear on them. Nevertheless, I wanted this to be sort of a surprise. Doug and I have been in contact with each other through email and I offered to send him a set of our new pedals once we have a "final" version ready to go, so he'll be part of the beta testing crew

You can get a glimpse of our new brake pedal in this video, but we'll have a lot more details on how this works in about a week or so. Check out the video!