PURE | JGTS - Going on strong and adapting in the face of change!

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posimosh: Customer car (He probably drove the PETRONAS at Spa.. But REPLAY is driving it alongside Minion now.. (So that one's closed)
MaccGyver : Honda RAYBRIG NSX

That's what it looks like for now. We'll have to wait one day to make sure everything is in order (waiting for MaccGyvers response).

The rules are listed in the OP. It took us a while to get it in there.. Sorry for that.
 
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.: RACE SPECIFICS | STAGE 3 | NURBURGRING GP/F | 34/10 LAPS | DEC 11th :.

December 11th
Nurburgring GP/F - 2 Heats.
Heat 1 - 175 km (34 Laps + 1 Formation Lap)
Heat 2 - 50 km (10 Laps + 1 Formation Lap)

Pit:
Entry:
Nothing special about it. Only thing to keep in mind is to not enter too fast, cause you're controlling the car all the way on the inside of the guard rails. If you crash/slide your pit stop might me messed up, and any driver entering the pits behind you can get held up if your AI try to get the car to face in the right direction.

Exit: Make sure to respect the white pit exit lines. You can cross them, but only if you're 100% sure that the track is clear.
And since it's slightly down hill, and cars that are on track approach at around 240-250 km/h, the smartest thing is to stay inside the white lines.
As always, if an incident occurs as a result from a driver crossing the line (Either the one on track, or the one wxiting the pits), a penalty will be handed out.
This is imortant to think about if your about to overtake a car down the main straight and plan to outbrake the car down the inside down to T1. If you're on the wrong side of the white pit exit lines, you'll be held responsible.

Running Wide:
There's a few spots to be extra careful at.
1. On the way out of T2, towards T3, make sure to keep at least 2 wheels on the rumble strip at all times. Do not go wide!
2. The exit from T4. Make sure to stay inside/on the solid white line with at least 2 wheels. This is a spot where significent time can be gained, so stewards will keep an close eye out here. Always try to stay inside. If we see a driver going full throttle and going wide, a penalty will be handed out.
3. Last chicane. This is alos a spot where a lot of time can be gained by cutting too much. Keep 2 wheels on the rumble strip at all times, and you're fine. Any cutting in this perticular area will be viewed upon harshly. (Same as the T4 exit)
 
This questions for Dennis or Eddie: When the season comes to an end, the Championship tally will be based on each drivers best 6 out of 8 rounds, correct?

Even though i felt like ****, Spa race has to be a success considering the disadvantage the GT-R has compared to the NSX. Seeing the schedule though, i noticed that i won't be fighting for any wins anywhere except for Monaco.

I didn't have the chance to compare the cars in the pre-races as i didn't have a wheel at the time, but didn't anyone notice that the NSX is more than a tad faster on the straights? The tire wear which could balance this difference, seems to be equal from what i saw in the past 2 races. And not only that,but when the tires are worn, The GTR's advantage in cornering speeds fades,while the straight line speed advantage of the NSX remains the same.

I believe there is still something to be tweaked here in order to achieve parity between the cars. I would like especially Brock and Adam to share their opinion on this matter, as they are my most direct competitors and i highly value their opinion.

Hey T, sorry it took me so long to respond. Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of the current specs, as the characteristics (in terms of strengths & weaknesses) amongst the cars varies a bit too much for my liking. Having such dramatic differences in the characteristics between the cars (with the NSX being a bit of an oddity of the bunch) only hurts the quality of racing we could be having ultimately and brings about more variables...but I didn't do any testing of my own, nor am I the creator of the series, so my opinion is only worth so much really :dopey:

I think if I had created this type of series, I would have just gone with R2's, as it would have been much easier to achieve parity and much more similar characeristics amongst the cars, without having to stray too far from the true potential of a GT500 car IRL. From my perspective, the fundamental problem atm (at least between say the NSX & GT-R) is that the NSX has too much power/downforce/weight, while the GT-R has too little power/not enough downforce/and too little weight. This means that with the current specs, the NSX has a moderate advantage on the tracks that generally have a higher average speed I would say....although I'm not really sure as to what will happen at the Nordschliefe. But on the slower speed tracks (Monaco & Nurb F in particular), I think the GT-R has a pretty sizeable advantage as well, not to mention that these are tracks where the draft isn't nearly as beneficial to the car behind, in comparison to tracks like Monza, Spa, Indy, Le Sarthe etc. So while you might have the potential to hang onto the rear of an NSX on some of these circuits (by using the long straights/draft to your benefit), this surely won't be the case for the NSX when we go to Monaco or even Nurb F most likely. So while you were able to get a decent result (3rd overall) at Spa (where the NSX had a healthy advantage), I think the NSX's are going to have a much harder time scoring a podium at Monaco & Nurb F most likely, as BOTH the GT-R & Lexus will be a fair bit stronger here. Without mentioning you, I'd imagine guys like CSLACR, Wardez, & Biffy (and Noss & Replay if they're in D1 this race?) could be strong contenders for a podium spot here at Nurb F, and will surely give even the quickest NSX drivers a hard time if they can just keep things on track and drive a clean enough race. Who knows, I wouldn't be all that suprised if we don't see an NSX even qualify (where I feel the NSX is at its strongest) in the top 3-4 either, especially since both Adam & myself are loaded up with a considerable amount of ballast (Adam moreso).

I for one have not done much testing between the various cars, but I think it's safe to say that the NSX probably does have a fairly healthy advantage, if you were to compare the qualifying pace on all of the circuits (not including Nordschliefe...which I feel is a bit of an unknown). I would imagine the average gap in ultimate qualifying pace over the course of the season (on a dry track) is probably somewhere around 3-4 tenths if I were to take an intuitive guess. But I don't think that really tells the whole story though, as there are so many other important variables (like the potential to draft on certain circuit) that I think might play into the favor of the GT-R. I think on the whole, the GT-R surely has the better/more balanced tire wear if you have a proper setup vs. the NSX, and this will probably be far more noticeable on the slower speed circuits (especially Monaco) where the NSX feels rather tankish, and is very hard on the rear tires). Ballast is certainly another variable that will affect the cars differently and hasn't really been much of a subject for debate...so who knows, one car might be hurt another couple of tenths of a second over another when fully loaded with ballast :ill: The same can be said for the cars performance once/if we do any running in wet conditions to. Also, I think it's reasonable to say that it is more difficult to maximize the NSX's potential through an entire stint/race, particularly on the tracks that it's not suited to...so this is something to take into account as well. And being that the NSX generally has worse tire wear, this could be something that plays a huge part when we come to certain tracks where there's a fine line between a 1, 2, or even 3 stopper.

Sorry if I rambled on a bit too long. With all that said though, there are so many variables that none of us really have a great deal of perspective on, so in many ways we are going down a bit of blind road. I think when it comes to the whole picture and taking most of the variables into account (beyond just pure pace over 1 lap in qualy), I think things are reasonably close though. And as you can imagine (hell, you probably remember when we were testing for the ISC, trying to achieve parity), it would take basically an endless/mind numbing amount of testing to truly get parity amongst the car when you factor in all of the possible variables we have to work :crazy:
 
Well what you just said pretty much gives a perfect insight into what we've achieved with the specs. We gave the NSX a quicker pace but with the bite of constantly having to work to keep that pace up. And the GT-R while being a bit slower in full potential, on a quick track, is easier to manage, but you would need to work hard in order to keep up with a good NSX driver.

Then the draft factor comes into play. Exactly as you said, on faster tracks it's a challenge to hang on to the bumper of an NSX but a lot harder for a NSX to hang on to a GT-R or SC on a slower one.

So in my mind it balances out in a very challenging and fun way, whichever car you decide to choose.

And you can drop two rounds. Meaning eight out of ten count. The championship structure should be up tomorrow. Pretty simple one really.
 
Its like the WSGTC MR-S vs the 4wd Subaru.

My MR-S was best round tracks like Monza, Daytona ect ect (on the Nurb I lucked a win :D) but it was a real handful on tracks like Monaco and Nurb GP/F with its lack of low speed traction where the 4wd Subaru was the opposite as you say could just keep up on the straights but destory it in the corners.

In the end the cars over a lap nearly worked out equal atleast thats what I thought so what I got from this all cars have different ways of going the same or similar speed and its rather hard to make all the cars the same.

Edit: In my mind this is the Gt300 version of NSXs vs GTRs and SCs :P.
 
Practice room open:

1472-4711-0081-4392-8725

I might be testing other things other than my GT-R, most notably my RX-7.
 
posimosh: Customer car (He probably drove the PETRONAS at Spa.. But REPLAY is driving it alongside Minion now.. (So that one's closed)
MaccGyver : Honda RAYBRIG NSX

That's what it looks like for now. We'll have to wait one day to make sure everything is in order (waiting for MaccGyvers response).

The rules are listed in the OP. It took us a while to get it in there.. Sorry for that.


So what am I driving? I posted a detailed explaination of what I did and why I did it last weekend on the previous page. I'm not trying to step on toes here or take anyone's spot so I'm cool with whatever. Perhaps I'm reading the post I quoted wrong (it's been a long day), I don't know what car I'm in this weekend. I will say that I would prefer the raybrig as I bought one special for this series and have been tuning it since Sunday night. That being said, I'll take what I can get. So, then, to be clear what car am I in at the weekend? If its an option of a few different cars, what are those options. I will make a snap judgement (likely the worst of the lot), one which I will inevitably regret as long as I'm in it but after this weekend it won't change.. At least for a while... (or will it?)
 
I totally understand your questions.

Because this championship was invitation only, all drivers took part in creating all rules, regulations, procedures, car specs etc..
So there was no need for a detailed OP.

Most important stuff is in the OP now, but some things that would be helpful for a new driver like yourself are not..

So here we go..

14 cars, 14 teams, 28 drivers
Nissan XANAVI NISMO GT-R
Nissan YELLOWHAT GT-R
Nissan AUTECH MOTUL GT-R
Nissan CALSONIC IMPUL GT-R
Nissan STEALTH GT500 GT-R
Nissan XANAVI NISMO Z
Honda RAYBRIG NSX
Honda TAKATA DOME NSX
Honda ARTA NSX
Honda STEALTH GT500 NSX
Lexus PETRONAS TOM'S SC430
Lexus DENSO DUNLOP SARD SC430
Toyota YELLOWHAT SUPRA
Toyota CASTROL TOM'S SUPRA

The above listed cars are included in the team championship since every car was assigned to 2 drivers.

Then, we have 6 cars that we have named "Customer Cars".
These cars are there for any (invited) driver who want to take part, but can not commit to 100% (100% = race in 8/10 races), but still want to race in this group.
A customer driver can also be one like yourself, who's varifyed clean and respectful (I've heard nothing but good about you), and want to race in a team on a regular basis (a 100% driver).
We're at the moment 27 drivers.
All cars listed above are occupied by 2 drivers, except one of the RAYBRIG NSX's.
Remy_K (bluesix), who drove it had to attend to work on our race time, so he had to withdraw from the Championship.

We also had a driver invited who was away in the beginning of the season. He missed out during our carselection process, and had to stand aside.
Now, when Remy_K had to leave, I PM'ed this driver (MaccGyver) if he was interested in the RAYBRIG NSX.
He's at the moment trying to get a feel for the car, and if he feel he can be competative in it, he'll join.
Since he was invited from the very beginning, he got first dibs.

If he do not get back to us within, let's say 24 hours from now, I'd offer that seat to you.

But for now, you're a customer driver, and a customer driver can choose any of below listed machines.
(As you can see, the STEALTH cars are available as customer cars even though it's represented in the team championship. Reason for that is that you can change the number plate on it, which separates it from the regular STEALTH's so to speak.)

Customer Cars:
Nissan WOODONE ADVAN CLARION GT-R
Nissan STEALTH GT500 GT-R
Honda EPSON NSX
Honda STEALTH GT500 NSX
Lexus BANDAI DIREZZA SC430
Lexus ENEOS SC430

Car specifications for each car is listed in the OP.


A customer driver always start out in D2. If the customer driver stays long enough, he got the same opportunity to get to D1 as any of the other drivers. All it requires is to perfom good on a regular basis. The customer driver who is the most commited of them (think we have 6 customer drivers signed up in the OP) will have first dibs as soon as a "regular" car is open due to any reason. This seat then belongs to the customer driver, who at this point is concidered a regular as long as he desires.

A driver can loose his seat if he do not race/act/behave in line with PURE JGTS standards.

I'll ask Wardez to send you the "Purely Speaking" PM, where all details are stated. (I'm not sure I still got that PM in my inbox. If I do, I'll forward it to you. 👍 )

Any questions?
 
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MÜLE_9242;6305849
Practice room open:

1472-4711-0081-4392-8725

I might be testing other things other than my GT-R, most notably my RX-7.

Closed.

Got into the 1:58's at GP/F, though I'm eating my tires alive.
 
I can give you them Litchi.. Cause tony1311 is leaving from home today, and wont be back until Sunday just prior green flag I guess..

Just let me sleep a few hours first.. lol
 
Nice post TA. 👍

Even though i felt like ****, Spa race has to be a success considering the disadvantage the GT-R has compared to the NSX. Seeing the schedule though, i noticed that i won't be fighting for any wins anywhere except for Monaco.

I didn't have the chance to compare the cars in the pre-races as i didn't have a wheel at the time, but didn't anyone notice that the NSX is more than a tad faster on the straights? The tire wear which could balance this difference, seems to be equal from what i saw in the past 2 races. And not only that,but when the tires are worn, The GTR's advantage in cornering speeds fades,while the straight line speed advantage of the NSX remains the same.

I believe there is still something to be tweaked here in order to achieve parity between the cars. I would like especially Brock and Adam to share their opinion on this matter, as they are my most direct competitors and i highly value their opinion.

I kept forgetting to reply to this post.

The NSX is faster on a straight yeah, but it has been improved from WSGTC season 2 where it was too fast. The difference now is like 3 mph difference at the top end? I was doing 174 mph at the end of the long Spa straight. The acceleration is also quicker though, because of it's flatter power band.

"The tire wear which could balance this difference, seems to be equal from what i saw in the past 2 races. And not only that,but when the tires are worn, The GTR's advantage in cornering speeds fades,while the straight line speed advantage of the NSX remains the same."

That is a very good point. However, I think that the tyre wear on the NSX is worse and suffers more when it's tyres are worn. So imo, if anything, the GT-R's advantage in the corners increases. Agreed the NSX will always have it's good straight line speed and torque, but on a later part of a stint when the NSX's tyres are going off, it takes ages until you can go full throttle (unless of course you want to wear your tyres even more). That to a certain degree slows it down in the straights.

I think the cars are at a good level and really, most of it is down to the drivers. We see 3 second differences etc etc between team mates in identical cars. How well you preserve your tyres, your tune and your pit strategy can all add a few tenths here and there creating a quite a large difference between 2 drivers, in different or identical cars. Then you have ballast just to top it off.

And we should really use a ballast system based on points but I'll leave that until another time. :)
 
Nice post TA. 👍



I kept forgetting to reply to this post.

The NSX is faster on a straight yeah, but it has been improved from WSGTC season 2 where it was too fast. The difference now is like 3 mph difference at the top end? I was doing 174 mph at the end of the long Spa straight. The acceleration is also quicker though, because of it's flatter power band.

"The tire wear which could balance this difference, seems to be equal from what i saw in the past 2 races. And not only that,but when the tires are worn, The GTR's advantage in cornering speeds fades,while the straight line speed advantage of the NSX remains the same."

That is a very good point. However, I think that the tyre wear on the NSX is worse and suffers more when it's tyres are worn. So imo, if anything, the GT-R's advantage in the corners increases. Agreed the NSX will always have it's good straight line speed and torque, but on a later part of a stint when the NSX's tyres are going off, it takes ages until you can go full throttle (unless of course you want to wear your tyres even more). That to a certain degree slows it down in the straights.

I think the cars are at a good level and really, most of it is down to the drivers. We see 3 second differences etc etc between team mates in identical cars. How well you preserve your tyres, your tune and your pit strategy can all add a few tenths here and there creating a quite a large difference between 2 drivers, in different or identical cars. Then you have ballast just to top it off.

And we should really use a ballast system based on points but I'll leave that until another time. :)

Hope that wasnt pointed at me ive only been 1-1.5 off CSL :P
 
I can give you them Litchi.. Cause tony1311 is leaving from home today, and wont be back until Sunday just prior green flag I guess..

Just let me sleep a few hours first.. lol

Yup yup, post them when u're ok. 👍
 
sorry to be a demanding arse but have you guys come to a conclusion who's been promoted and demoted
 
Lol sorry, it was a matter of, " Oh no, I thought you were gonna do it."

So these are our new fields. The rule is that if you did not let us know that you weren't going to make a race ahead time (no-call no-show) then you do not get the benefit of having your virtual point total cross-expanded from your other result, which is what happened to replay. And again, you get .5 times for arranging an absence and .7 for having trouble connecting to the race room and/or not being able to start because of network problems.

promo1.png
 
Which also means we'll need a new dedicated host for D2 for at least the next two rounds. It'll either be TnJ or Litchi.
 
Hope that wasnt pointed at me ive only been 1-1.5 off CSL :P

That'd be me. I'm nowhere near what Aderrrm can do with the NSX. I can't even drive his tunes actually, they're fast but I just end up in a barrier. I have to stick with the safe and sane stock tunes and try and get results through less errors than my fellows.

I have a cunning plan though, practising in F1 2011. :) If I can learn to catch twitchy F1 cars at 300+kph, stepping back into GT500s should be a doddle. All about training those reflexes and getting smoother with the inputs.
 
Also, just try driving the ARTA on sport hards, going from that to R1s would be like going from a marathon in the alps to one on the beach 👍
 
Wardez
So these are our new fields.

Ouch for me. The GT5 server failures on Sunday effected me strongly. I have been lucky enough to be disconnect free for the most part with GT5. Guess it was my turn. Horrible timing as I was most likely to take 4th behind the big 3 at Spa in the main, and had a good car for the Sprint.

Nothing I can do, but put my head down and try and get the results that will put me back in Div1.

Congrats to those of you that worked your way into D1. No easy races around here with this group. Props to you guys for fighting through your bad qualis(week 1)and racing your way into D1.
 
This questions for Dennis or Eddie: When the season comes to an end, the Championship tally will be based on each drivers best 6 out of 8 rounds, correct?



Hey T, sorry it took me so long to respond. Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of the current specs, as the characteristics (in terms of strengths & weaknesses) amongst the cars varies a bit too much for my liking. Having such dramatic differences in the characteristics between the cars (with the NSX being a bit of an oddity of the bunch) only hurts the quality of racing we could be having ultimately and brings about more variables...but I didn't do any testing of my own, nor am I the creator of the series, so my opinion is only worth so much really :dopey:

I think if I had created this type of series, I would have just gone with R2's, as it would have been much easier to achieve parity and much more similar characeristics amongst the cars, without having to stray too far from the true potential of a GT500 car IRL. From my perspective, the fundamental problem atm (at least between say the NSX & GT-R) is that the NSX has too much power/downforce/weight, while the GT-R has too little power/not enough downforce/and too little weight. This means that with the current specs, the NSX has a moderate advantage on the tracks that generally have a higher average speed I would say....although I'm not really sure as to what will happen at the Nordschliefe. But on the slower speed tracks (Monaco & Nurb F in particular), I think the GT-R has a pretty sizeable advantage as well, not to mention that these are tracks where the draft isn't nearly as beneficial to the car behind, in comparison to tracks like Monza, Spa, Indy, Le Sarthe etc. So while you might have the potential to hang onto the rear of an NSX on some of these circuits (by using the long straights/draft to your benefit), this surely won't be the case for the NSX when we go to Monaco or even Nurb F most likely. So while you were able to get a decent result (3rd overall) at Spa (where the NSX had a healthy advantage), I think the NSX's are going to have a much harder time scoring a podium at Monaco & Nurb F most likely, as BOTH the GT-R & Lexus will be a fair bit stronger here. Without mentioning you, I'd imagine guys like CSLACR, Wardez, & Biffy (and Noss & Replay if they're in D1 this race?) could be strong contenders for a podium spot here at Nurb F, and will surely give even the quickest NSX drivers a hard time if they can just keep things on track and drive a clean enough race. Who knows, I wouldn't be all that suprised if we don't see an NSX even qualify (where I feel the NSX is at its strongest) in the top 3-4 either, especially since both Adam & myself are loaded up with a considerable amount of ballast (Adam moreso).

I for one have not done much testing between the various cars, but I think it's safe to say that the NSX probably does have a fairly healthy advantage, if you were to compare the qualifying pace on all of the circuits (not including Nordschliefe...which I feel is a bit of an unknown). I would imagine the average gap in ultimate qualifying pace over the course of the season (on a dry track) is probably somewhere around 3-4 tenths if I were to take an intuitive guess. But I don't think that really tells the whole story though, as there are so many other important variables (like the potential to draft on certain circuit) that I think might play into the favor of the GT-R. I think on the whole, the GT-R surely has the better/more balanced tire wear if you have a proper setup vs. the NSX, and this will probably be far more noticeable on the slower speed circuits (especially Monaco) where the NSX feels rather tankish, and is very hard on the rear tires). Ballast is certainly another variable that will affect the cars differently and hasn't really been much of a subject for debate...so who knows, one car might be hurt another couple of tenths of a second over another when fully loaded with ballast :ill: The same can be said for the cars performance once/if we do any running in wet conditions to. Also, I think it's reasonable to say that it is more difficult to maximize the NSX's potential through an entire stint/race, particularly on the tracks that it's not suited to...so this is something to take into account as well. And being that the NSX generally has worse tire wear, this could be something that plays a huge part when we come to certain tracks where there's a fine line between a 1, 2, or even 3 stopper.

Sorry if I rambled on a bit too long. With all that said though, there are so many variables that none of us really have a great deal of perspective on, so in many ways we are going down a bit of blind road. I think when it comes to the whole picture and taking most of the variables into account (beyond just pure pace over 1 lap in qualy), I think things are reasonably close though. And as you can imagine (hell, you probably remember when we were testing for the ISC, trying to achieve parity), it would take basically an endless/mind numbing amount of testing to truly get parity amongst the car when you factor in all of the possible variables we have to work :crazy:
I totally agree.👍
Ballast imo is an advantage the NSX has, an unavoidable one too. Because the car is so unbalanced, thr first 75KG or so being thrown on the front simply levels the car out, whereas the GTR's start with great balance, so it's all just dead weight on them, combined with a narrow powerband means the acceleration is also hurt a bit more.
The Nordschliefe to me is a GTR track, lap times should be very similar, but if lap times are the same, the GTR always has the stability ease-of-use benefit.

I do know in any case it's also completely dependent on the driver as well. I know my lap times don't favor the NSX as much as it does for some of you guys.

I'll be opening a room shortly if there isn't one, internet is back and I'm gonna hit the track finally.:)
 
Still only 2 (me and Litchi) who've done quali?

How about tony? He said he needed to put a lap in yesterday because he was leaving from home, and wont be back until race time..
 
I barely made it... wow.

But this, coupled with my horrible, horrible times at Nürburgring, means I'll get demoted to D2 next time around! :dopey:
 
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